New Tank Suggestions?

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Offline WinterDusk

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New Tank suggestions?
« on: October 08, 2014, 03:22:41 PM »
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So I recently decided to get into fishkeeping as a hobby. I had always enjoyed having an aquarium when I was a child, although I don't think my dad really knew what he was doing.. so now that I'm older and in charge of my own tank I've been doing a lot of heavy research and trying to do everything PERFECTLY. I bought a 28 gallon bowfront tank 24 x 16 x 18 and let it cycle for a week before adding any fish. (That was hard, but I managed  :cheers: ) Anyways, so I bought three zebra danio's and three mollies. I plan to go back for three more danio's when it' time to add more fish, and I'm going to breed my own mollies.

So it's been three weeks since I added them and I've been watching them and monitoring the water closely. Now I have a few questions, and I hope it's alright if I put them all in here instead of making a a bunch of different threads:

1) How soon can I add more to the tank? I was told a month, but then I've also heard three weeks could be sufficient. Asking because I might be going to my fish store soon, and it'd be nice to save a trip.

2) For bottom feeders, I was interested in a pleco as I think are most new fish keepers, but I've recently learned that my tank might not be large enough for one as they can grow to be quite big. Is there any similar type of fish that would thrive in my tank I could use as a substitute?

3) Is water changing 20-25% once a week preferable compared to more in depth cleaning over a longer period of time?

4) Lastly, what are some fish suggestions I could add with these relatively peaceful group? I'd like some variety so I can get to know different species. It can be a little overwhelming with all the different compatibilities and wide selection. I'd like one or two bigger fish than the schoolers to add some different variety, but I don't want to if they won't thrive in my tank size. What are some good options?

Thank you in advance!

Offline Sue

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 06:45:36 PM »
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Before answering your questions, I need to advise you to ignore the shops. Most of them don't have a clue about setting tanks up properly. And without intending any disrespect, ignore your father too. Fishkeeping knowledge has moved on enormously in the last couple of decades.

Firstly, you say you let the tank cycle for a week. I assume you mean you let the tank run but didn't add anything? In which case, it was not cycled and you are now doing a fish-in cycle.
You say you have been monitoring the water closely - have you been measuring the ammonia and nitrite levels? If you have, good  :) And have you had any reading above zero for either of them - and doing water changes as and when necessary to keep them both below 0.25?

Q1.
You can add more fish when both ammonia and nitrite stay at zero without you needing to do water changes. There is no set time, it depends how long the filter bacteria take to grow. Once you've had double zeros for a week, you can get more fish - around a third of the fish in there now. If you get too many at once, the bacteria you have grown will be overwhelmed. Since you have 3 danios and 3 mollies and you want more danios, given that mollies (even baby ones) are bigger than danios, you can get 3 more danios.

Q2.
Do you want a fish that feeds off the bottom or a fish that eats algae? If it's just fish that live on the bottom, why not look at corydoras? A tank with a footprint the size of yours will need one of the dwarf species of cory rather than one of the larger species - that's pygmy cories, salt & pepper cories (not peppered, cories they get too big) and hastatus cories. They need to be in a shoal of at least 6 of the same species. They are not vegetarians despite being a type of catfish; they need to be fed on sinking pellets that contains some meaty ingredients.
If you want something that eats algae, the best creature for that is nerite snails.

Q3.
Weekly water changes of 25 to 30% is the best regime. But that's only once the tank is cycled - once both ammonia and nitrite stay at zero by themselves. Until then, water changes should be as often and as big as necessary to prevent either going over 0.25.

Q4.
With just 24 inches length, you can't have very big fish. They need more swimming room than you have.

Do you know how hard your water is? A rough guideline is if your kettle or shower head fur up, you have hard water. Your water company should have the hardness somewhere on its website. If you find it, can you give us the number and also which units they use. There are several of them (like inches and cm for length).

It is easier to suggest fish once we know what your water is like. Hardness is more important than pH. You have some time yet before getting all your fish  :)

Offline AndreaC

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 12:50:29 AM »
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Hi WinterDusk, and welcome to the hobby :) Sue covered pretty much everything in such amazing detail that I don't have much to add. You said you wanted a pleco as a bottom feeder though. Plecos are algae eaters and tend to spend most of their time on the side of the tank and on ornaments where the algae is. So if you wanted a fish that stays on the bottom then cories are the way to go. If you instead wanted a fish that looks something like a pleco I'd suggest you consider some otocinclus catfish. They're about the only algae eating fish that will be okay in a tank the size of yours and you're best to get at least four. I've had them before and find them to be a lot of fun :) Another potential option apart from snails which Sue mentioned are shrimp. Depending where you live the types of shrimp you can get will be different (I can't have any, for example  :'( ) but as long as you get a group of small ones and have no aggressive or predatory fish in your tank they are definitely an option.

Offline Resa

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 02:06:35 AM »
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Hi & Welcome Winterdusk :wave:

Just a thought about the otocinclus suggestion...they are lovely little fish, and Andrea is right about needing a shoal but I think 6 is a better number. However, that brings us to another  glitch. Have I understood your post correctly that your tank is only a month or so old? Otos really need a tank that is mature, that is a tank that has been cycled and then is 6 months or more old. It takes a while to grow a decent amount of algae for the little fellas too. They can be delicate little chaps to start with and we can give you some pointers to maximise your success with them before you buy any...if you decide on them when your tank is ready :)
In the meanwhile, you are going to be busy doing loads of water changes. Have a look at Sue's thread on 'Fish-in Cycling'....she tells you EVERYTHING you need to know to get a happy tank!
Good luck :cheers:

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (11) - Otocinclus (2) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (7) - Dwarf Gourami (2) - Red Phantom Tetra (5) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (2) - Otocinclus (2) - Guppy (male) (4) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (6) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) - Panda Cory (6) - Otocinclus (2) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (6) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (5) - Guppy (male) (4) - Otocinclus (2) - Panda Cory (6) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline AndreaC

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 03:36:39 AM »
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That's a really good point Resa, I had completely forgotten that they need to be in a mature tank. I had 5 in a 130L tank and they seemed happy enough so I thought four would be okay in a smaller tank but maybe not. They go through algae so fast that I actually set up an algae farm and supplemented this with algae wafers. Winterdusk if you do decide to get them I can give you more detailed information about my algae farm if you want because there are a few things you have to keep in mind :)

Offline WinterDusk

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 06:35:17 PM »
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Replying to this two months later because I didn't want you guys to think I didn't appreciate your replies/knowledge. I just ran into a few missteps along the way, and felt it was best to wait until I was officially on track before coming back here. Save myself some embarrassment.  :fishy1: 

To summarize everything that happened after my last post:

I lost a few of my mollies presumably because I was not monitoring the nitrates/nitrites levels. I had been monitoring the ammonia, but had not been educated to the fact that just because the ammonia levels go down, does not mean that the tank is cycled. After that, I felt bad, and really waited carefully and did all the tests / water changes until the nitrites spiked and went down, until I was left with just a small amount of nitrates. I had one molly survive the process. She's a fighter. My danio's survived also, unsurprisingly. I didn't add any more fish until recently. Wanted to make sure everything was stable. I noticed some algae starting to grow on the inside of the glass, which I cleaned, which I take it is a good sign.

My new additions are two sunset platies and a paradise gourami who I believe is female. She's still tiny, so I'm looking forward to watching her grow.

Not sure about my water company, but the info from my test strips say that general hardness is 60 ppm and carbonate hardness 240 ppm. pH is 7.0.

I really like the salt&peper corydoras. I think I'd go for something darker because my tank's substrate and most of my fake plants are light and I need the contrast. I also like the suggestion of the Otocinclus Catfish, but maybe I'll wait a bit longer for my tank to mature before purchasing a few.. There has been some algae in my tank, but probably not enough yet.

Is there a link somewhere that would help to decide which fish I could later add with this group, and how many my tank can hold?

Thank you all to your suggestions and tips. Maybe I'll take some pics of my tank later on and post them.  :D

Offline Resa

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 12:46:20 AM »
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Hi Winterdusk :wave:

Welcome back, and sorry you've not had a good start, but hopefully you're on track now.
Just a quick post as I'm super pooped and need my bed, but I thought I'd just tell you that if you go to the fish profile section (in the header choices) you can put in your tank dimensions and filter options, and create your own virtual tank. Choose a fish from the sections and add it to your tank. The community creator will tell you if there are any issues with your choice or if your numbers aren't right or there is a conflict between the fish you have chosen. It will tell you how many fish you can have in your particular tank set up, and do the percentages of fish allowed. Then as you add your choices it will keep track of how many more fish you can add.
The info that pops up when you click on a fish choice will also tell you what water conditions that fish will need, how many of them need to be kept and if they are a good community fish or perhaps one that is better with a more mature tank or an experienced keeper.

Anyway, it will all be self explanatory when you go to that section and is a really useful tool.
One of the others, (Sue probably) will be along in the morning I expect to give you more advice on your water chemistry etc, and will be able to help you a bit more than I can in my current brain fugged state ???

Persevere, we all (I bet) made mistakes in the beginning, but we can hand-hold you as much as you need/want until you have a beautiful, healthy tank to spend hours watching....and then you'll want another tank too ;)
Well, night, night...good luck!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (11) - Otocinclus (2) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (7) - Dwarf Gourami (2) - Red Phantom Tetra (5) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (2) - Otocinclus (2) - Guppy (male) (4) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (6) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) - Panda Cory (6) - Otocinclus (2) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (6) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (5) - Guppy (male) (4) - Otocinclus (2) - Panda Cory (6) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 09:43:23 AM »
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First of all your hardness - test strips are not terribly accurate. The results you give mean you have soft water (GH) but high buffering capacity (KH). Levels so different are quite unusual. If those are anywhere near accurate, mollies will not be happy in your water as they need hard water. I would confirm your test results with your water company, by phone if necessary. Few water companies give the KH on their website and if they do they call it alkalinity. If you do ring them up, ask for the hardness and alkalinity and ask them which units they use as some companies use mg CaO per litre which is not the same as ppm on our testers which is mg CaCO3 per litre - fish profiles on all websites use either ppm of CaCO3 or german deg so you have to convert the CaO measurement to get a meaningful number.

Paradise fish and salt&pepper cories prefer slightly lower temps than most tropical fish; the lower 20s rather than the mid 20s. You might find it tricky finding those particular cories. I have given up and got more pygmy cories. One shop I asked at said they order salt&pepper and hastatus every week but never get them. The only dwarf cories that ever arrive from the order are pygmies. With the footprint of your tank, don't be tempted with one of the larger species; I wouldn't even put panda cories on that sized footprint.

Watch the paradise fish as she grows. Males are known to be aggressive and some females are almost as bad. It is possible you have a male if the fish is very small; fry always look female until male hormones kick in at puberty. If your fish hasn't reached puberty yet, it could turn out to be a male.

As Resa says, look at the community creator on here. It is right at the bottom of every fish profile. If you want to save the info you need to log in separately from the forum. And it has a nasty habit of logging you out while you are researching a fish you want to add so you have to log back in all the time.

Offline WinterDusk

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Re: New Tank suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 04:58:20 PM »
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Question - both my sunset platies disappeared within the last two weeks. One went before the other, which is really strange IMO. I'm suspecting my gourami at this point ( who did turn out to be female after maturity ) but I'm confused, because why have the three danio's survived this long? Is it because they're much faster than the platies? It's hard to tell, because I've never actually seen this happen.  Maybe they just died from unknown causes, and all fish ate the corpse. But I'm still leery about the gourami...

Anyone have any theories or suggestions?

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