New Tank, Fishless Cycle.

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Offline aespp

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New tank, fishless cycle.
« on: July 15, 2014, 11:33:48 AM »
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I bought a Marina S60 (60 litre) tank and set it all up on Sunday (2 days ago). I added my sand, ornaments, set up the filter, heater etc.

I was suggested to use the Fluval Cycle treatment, which is similar to the API quick start treatment, to help speed up the cycle process. I added it this morning, about 2 hours ago, but haven't checked any levels yet. I have the Nutrafin Test kit with test tubes and bottles for when the time comes to test.

I have two questions:
1. Will I still have to add ammonia to the water as well as the treatment, if so how much would I need to add?
2. How long after adding, should I wait to test the water?

Thank you.

Offline jesnon

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 12:05:47 PM »
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You mentioned in your other thread already having a tank up and running? The best thing to do in that case would be to take some of your filter media to seed your new filter. I'm sure someone else will be able to elaborate a bit more on how much ammonia to use as I'm not sure.  I would guess around 3ppm?

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Offline aespp

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 12:40:30 PM »
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How would I go about taking some of the filter media?

I've just done a test and these were the results:
Ammonia: 0.6 mg/L
PH: 7.5
Nitrate: 10 mg/L
Nitrite: 0.3 mg/L

How bad are those levels? (This is were I really need the partner back from his fishing trip, but I'd also like to prove to him that I can do this haha!)

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 02:28:39 PM »
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Neither Cycle nor Quick Start will do much to cycle the tank, I'm afraid. Only Tetra Safe Start (sometimes) and Dr Tims One & Only (in the USA) are known to work. Cycle might be one of those products that contain some ammonia and it may have some live ammonia eating bacteria (maybe the cause of the nitrite) but they have the wrong species of nitrite eating bacteria.

The safest thing to do is a fishless cycle using ammonia as per this method. If the Cycle helps, good.

The Juwel tank should have: white pad, black sponge which you may or may not be using, green sponge, coarse blue sponge(s), fine blue sponge(s) and cirax. I would remove one of the fine blue sponges and chop it up to make it fit in the new tank's filter. Put a new fine blue in the Juwel. Keep the sponge wet, or at least damp, during this process. Do this just before you add a dose of ammonia and test in 24 hours. If you have zero for both ammonia and nitrite, add another 3ppm dose of ammonia and test again in 24 hours. If they are both zero again, you are good to get fish.
If you don't get double zeros, follow the fishless cycling method till you do. With mature media it will go a lot quicker.



Query - I have tried googling your tank but can't find it. Not even on Hagen's website. Are you sure of the model name? And can I ask what filter it comes with as some of Hagen's are terrible, in my opinion. For instance, the Marina S range filters contain cartridges which contain carbon and have to be replaced regularly - which means you throw away your bacteria on a regular basis!

Offline aespp

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 03:19:33 PM »
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That's not a problem. I shall have to purchase some ammonia.

My tank is the Marina Style 60. There isn't much about it on the web, I just looked on the Hagen and couldn't find it, but the box definitely says Marina Style 60 - 60ltr, I bought it from my local aquatics shop. Yes, it comes with one of the slim filters (the Marina S15 to be precise). I was advised that they were to be changed frequently, but to help them last longer I was told to cut up one of the green sponges and place them behind the filter cartridges so that when the time comes to change the Marina cartridges, there will still be plenty of bacteria on the green sponges, so you aren't getting rid of all the bacteria. (The guy that owns the aquatics shop is a very close friend of mine so I know he wouldn't fob me off!)

The Juwel tank has two parts to the filter, partner doesn't let me touch the back part, but the front part contains a white pad, 2 green sponges and a black sponge. I haven't seen a blue filter so unless it's in the other part of the filter I am unsure. Would I be able to do this with one of the other sponges?

Thank you for all the advice! I thought that the Fluval Cycle would be too good to be true. It states on the packaging that you use three doses over three seperate days and then it's all good to go! If only things were that simple!

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 04:57:24 PM »
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The green sponges in the Juwel filter are supposed to remove nitrate only the consensus is that they don't. Most people treat them like a blue sponge, ie they don't change them as the instructions say to, only when they literally fall apart after several years. I had a Juwel Rio 125 till January when I replaced it with a 180 litre tank  :D

To be honest, those cartridges are more trouble than they are worth. You don't need to use carbon at all (bio-carb cartridges) - I haven't used any for about 10 years. And as for the bioclear cartridges, they contain zeolite the sole purpose of which is to absorb ammonia.
If I was to buy this tank, I wouldn't bother with the cartridges at all. I'd just cut up some of a Juwel sponge to make it fit and use just that. The green sponge would be fine, but you'd need to fill in the gap left in the Juwel filter when you cut some off. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to fit a whole green sponge in the Marina filter  :-\

Because the amount of Juwel media you'd be able to fit in there, it will only be a small percent of the total Juwel media, and therefore only a small percent of the bacteria that are in the Juwel filter. You will need to grow more before getting fish. But the good news is that there will be some bacteria; it's getting them started that's the slow bit.

Offline aespp

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Re: New tank, fishless cycle.
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 10:10:07 AM »
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Thank you for all your advice! Finally getting the chance to go to the aquatics store today to get some green sponges to swap for the one currently in the Juwel!

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