Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: SoraStar on April 14, 2016, 05:05:40 PM
-
So i set up my old 60L tank again last week after it was sat in the garage for 2 years.
I doubt that any of the bacteria have survived in the filter but if any has then great, my main question as its been a few years since i kept fish is whether the set-up i've got n mind will work:
1 Swordtail to cycle it with
1 Gourami (maybe join him in the cycle, not sure yet and probably gonna be a Dwarf)
1 Clown Plec (for when the cycle is over)
then
1 Dwarf Cichlid (unsure yet but either a bolivian ram or cockatoo cichlid)
if possible i'd try get something else in too but idk yet
p.s: i cannot stand shoaling fish e.g tetras, max three of a species per tank for me
-
After 2 years the media will have well and truly dried out so there will be no viable bacteria left I'm afraid.
Rather than do a fish-in cycle, which is not very pleasant for the fish concerned and hard work for the fish keeper, why not do a fishless cycle instead? Much simpler as no water changes are needed and no fish suffer. Step by step instructions can be found here (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fishless-cycling-how-to-do-it/)
If for some reason you still want to do a fish-in cycle, instructions are here (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fish-in-cycling-with-fish-how-to-do-it/). A fish-in cycle is easier if you heavily plant the tank before getting fish.
I would not use the rather delicate dwarf gourami to cycle a tank with - and I would caution that these fish often have an incurable disease by the time they reach the shop tank. Honey gouramis are healthier and in a 60 litre tank you could have a male/female pair. I wouldn't use honey gouramis for cycling with either.
Unless your tank is very long for a 60 litre, it is too small for a swordtail, which needs a 75cm long tank, though some suggest a 120 cm tank. These are big, fast swimming fish. A platy would work, but I'd rather see a group of them. While they are not a shoaling fish, they are sociable and prefer to be in a group.
However, the other fish on your wish list prefer soft water while swordtails and platies prefer hard water. Do you know which type you have? Your water company should have that info on its website somewhere. If it is soft, I would leave out all livebearers; if it is hard I would avoid gouramis and south American cichlids.
I don't think any plec is suitable for a 60 litre tank. Does your dislike of shoaling fish include corydoras? A shoal of one of the dwarf species would be suitable.
I would go for the smaller apistogramma rather than the larger bolivian ram, but I'd get a pair rather than just a single fish.
I'm afraid I'm wrecking your wish list :-\ if you could find out the hardness of your water we could offer some suggestions for you.
-
My water is medium/soft water approx 5.6 dGH
Tank is a standard 2'x1'x1' 60L, medium planted and with bogwood.
Not entirely sure why a swordtail needs so much room when they rarely get over 2-3" and a frequently kept in nano tanks...
Main goal though is a Dwarf Cichlid tank as they give a better variety for the size i've got.
Getting German Rams again would be nice but i want to mature the tank for a long time before those.
-
Just because people keep swordtails in nano tanks doesn't mean they are right. Many fish are kept in tanks which are too small for them to exhibit their natural behaviour.
-
Hi SoraStar. Welcome to the forum. :wave:
Not entirely sure why a swordtail needs so much room when they rarely get over 2-3" and a frequently kept in nano tanks...
As Sue said "These are big, fast swimming fish."
There are lots of people that keep lots of fish in tanks that are unsuitable. :(
We only promote best practice here. All our advice will be with the best interest of the inhabitants of the aquarium in mind.
I'm sure you'd agree it's best practice to provide an aquarium that is large enough to comfortably house the species you intend keeping.
Some 2-3" fish will be fine in a smaller tank, if they're relatively docile, but a fast swimming fish really needs room to stretch it's fins.
A 3" fish will barely be able to get up to top speed, before hitting the other side of the tank, if they're confined to a maximum 24" swimming space.
-
With your soft water I'd stay away from all livebearers no matter how small.
If you are interested in dwarf cichlids, the tank is too small for more than one species, and for more than 1 male 1 female of the same species. But it does leave you with a wide range of options. A pair of honey gouramis would be fine with dwarf cichlids and soft water as one type tends to keep to the bottom of the tank, the other to the top. Dwarf gouramis would be OK instead of honeys if you could manage to source disease free specimens (the usual advice is to buy only from local breeders).
That gives you 4 fish. The only other fish I can think of that would go with those are shoaling fish, which you don't like :-\
-
Thanks, would an oto cat be suitable then? Also would 2-3 Barbs be ok?
-
Otos need mature tanks and re happier in groups of 6 or more. Barbs tend to be happier in shoals too. Have you considered dwarf puffers?
-
Though I wouldn't keep dwarf puffers with gouramis or cichlids. Or any other fish they could nip.
-
...and dwarf puffers are better in medium/hard/very hard water.
Some options of fish suitable for soft water are in my 'Community Creator' (see my 'footer' to this msg), if that helps provide any inspiration.
-
SoraStars water is 5.6 dGH according to seriously fish they need 5-25 so it's within their parameters, it's a moot point anyway as gouramis are on the wish list and as Sue pointed out they're nippy little blighters. Puffers not the gouramis. And thinking about it even further, they're so nosy they'd probably fall foul with the rams.
-
Although I love dwarf puffers I know they're not exactly community fish
-
Hi SoraStar and welcome to the forum. :wave:
Best of luck with the tank, great to hear that you've put it back into use after 2 years.
Please keep us updated on your progress and post pictures of your tank and fish (when you get them) so we can admire them. ;D
-
Although I love dwarf puffers I know they're not exactly community fish
They are if you chose the right tank mates. :) I like the fact they always come to the front to eyeball you when they spot you in the room, makes me smile every time.
-
Some of my dwarf puffers have matured and I have some males with the dark line along the underside. ;D
Obviously they won't be helpful enough to all come to the front of the tank at the same time so I can count how many have matured and how many are males, but I'm guessing at least 5 out of 6 of the first batch purchased have matured, and I've seen 2 males at the same time when feeding them. ;D
-
So what go with dwarf puffers then?
-
Looking at the couple of other recent threads on this issue, it looks as though they're best kept in a species-only tank although Fiona O'M is managing to keep some successfully with other fish (bumblebee goby, clown loach, golden barb, if her 'footnote' is up-to-date) because she has a larger tank.
The threads are here:
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/general-fishkeeping-advice/dwarf-puffer-with/
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/fish-species/dwarf-puffer-fish/
Hope that helps.
Have you had any further thoughts on what you might like?
-
I have a 125L species only tank for my dwarf puffers.
I'm not sure that a dwarf puffer in a 60L community tank is really feasible because they need a lot of room for such little fellas, but Fiona is the best person to advise on that.
;D
-
decided as i've got quite a bit of hornwort and anarcharis. i'm gonna fishless for a bit longer but also silent cycle it...
new fish ideas are gonna be: small group of barbs with a bolivian ram, a dwarf gourami and an oto cat.
p.s although my water company clams its 5-6dGH i measured it at closer to 12-13dGH...
-
A fishless cycle route is definitely a good choice - keep us posted on the cycle's progress (ammonia/nitrates/nitrites readings) as it will be interesting to see how that goes.
Glad that you've got some new ideas on potential fish. Have you thought about which types of barbs to have? Lots of people on this forum have or have had the fish you mention, so I'm sure they'll be able to provide you with advice and tips.
As far as the water reading hardness goes, that is quite a difference between the two readings. I've noticed that the GH reading on the Tetra test strips are much, much higher than with any other test eg JBL test strips or the Aquality liquid-based test kit which I have for GH, with the latter two being much more in line with the water company's results. What test kit are you using? Given the difference, I'd be inclined to try another test type.
-
an oto cat.
Please don't get just one oto. They are shoaling fish which need company of their own kind. If you want an algae eater, get a nerite snail. They are fine as just one as eat more algae than otos.
What do you mean by a small group of barbs - I hope you mean at least 6 of them.
As for GH, your water company (or the testing company they use) has much better testing equipment that we can get for home use. My son used to work as an analyst for Severn Trent Laboratories and was highly amused by our testing kits.
-
What's a silent cycle?
-
A silent cycle is when plants alone are used to cycle the tank - it can be done but, from the limited reading I've done on it, think it takes about 9 months. I'm assuming/hoping that SoraStar meant that she'd be doing a combination of the more accurate method of using ammonia in conjunction with the plants method which might reduce the fishless cycle length a little eg from 6 weeks to 5 weeks, for example.
-
A silent cycle is where you plant the tank heavily, wait till you are sure the plants are all growing well, then add fish a few at a time and check for ammonia and nitrite on a daily basis. In theory, if there are enough plants and they are growing well they use all the ammonia made by the fish and you should never see any ammonia or nitrite in the water. The reason for adding fish slowly (like for a fish-in cycle) is to make sure the plants are doing the job without adding so many fish at once that you find yourself doing multiple daily water changes to stop ammonia and nitrite build up.
The danger is that some people do this with insufficient plant numbers or their plants die when there are fish in the tank and they end up doing a fish-in cycle. You need to be sure of your plant growing skills before attempting a silent cycle.
fcmf beat me to it, but I'll still post this anyway ;D
-
The fishless cycle seems a heck of a lot easier and less work.
-
Ok well as of now the tank was been fully cycled, and some fish are added. ATM its just a baby clown pleco and a dwarf gourami. soon to add a small school of male guppies. In about a month or two when i'm 100% sure the tank is ready i'll add a ram to finish off.
-
Hi Sora, good to hear an update.
Less than ten days seems an almost unprecedented length of time for a tank - or, more accurately, the filter) to fully cycle. What test kit have you been using and what were your daily readings? Did you add ammonia or fish food to simulate the fish's waste and get the nitrogen cycle going, or did you just leave the tank as it was with the plants? The reason I'm asking is that occasionally some people have thought that by leaving the tank sitting was "cycling" it and, because the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite readings all looked to be at appropriate levels, they assumed it was cycled.
As it seems more likely that you're still in the process of actually undergoing the cycle, through a silent/fish-in cycle, you'll need to keep a very close eye on your ammonia/nitrate/nitrite readings daily, monitoring them, and doing frequent water changes to ensure that ammonia and nitrite are kept down at 0, and nitrate as close to 20ppm as possible.
We can and will be happy to advise more appropriately (eg on when would be the best stage to add the small school of male guppies), once we know what process you've gone through over the past ten days or so.
Hope the fish you've got so far are settling in well.
-
for the last 3 days the readings were 0.25,0,20 then 0,0,10 then 0,0,10 (ammonia nitrite nitrate) using the API master test kit. just added 4 male guppies today.
-
Those results look fine.
It is good practice to monitor the levels for a few days every time you add new fish. That way you catch it early if the filter can't cope.