New Tank And New Fish, And A Born Again Fish Keeper ;)

Hi,

The time it takes for the ammonia to drop is very variable. It depends on so many factors - the temperature, the pH, the hardness, and how many bacteria manage to survive being poisoned by the water company -  they add chlorine or chloramine to disinfect tap water and it also kills our filter bacteria. When I did a fishless cycle last year, I counted the day I added the first dose of ammonia as day 1, and I saw a drop on day 13. Yours could be quicker than that or slower, but that timing seems reasonably typical. And it was day 32 before I saw a drop in nitrite.
But I was using a modified version of the old fishless cycle method, starting with just 1ppm ammonia, then adding the same dose every time ammonia dropped to zero. The current thinking is that it is not necessary to add more ammonia as soon as it drops to zero. If I'd known about that method when I did a cycle, I would have tried that instead.

Contrary to what I used to believe, it seems that having plants in during cycling is not a thing to avoid. The only 'problem' you might encounter is more algae than if you didn't have live plants, simply because without plants you can leave the lights off.


Siamese fighting fish vary quite a lot in temperament. Some are very laid back and easily bullied; some will attack anything that moves. And everything in between. Endlers are reputed to be OK with fighters (no long flowing fins, and they tend to keep any nippiness among themselves). Platies - maybe. They are quite brightly coloured and if you have a particularly aggressive fighter he could mistake a platy for another fighter. The one I'd be concerned about is the rainbows. Males have quite long threadlike fins, which could trigger a fighter's attack instincts.
What I'd do is get the fighter last so he'll be going into an environment that already has fish. If you get him first, he'll see any later additions as invaders of his territory.
And have a back-up plan just in case. A short term measure, should things go wrong, is one of those fry nets that clip on the side of the tank for the fighter, though as fighters can jump you would need a cover. This would give you breathing space to decide what to do. If your fighter does get picked on or won't tolerate tank mates, long term you would have to rehome him or get another tank just for him. 20 to 25 litres is fine for just one fighting fish - this is how multiple tank syndrome starts 


Multiple tank syndrome - an incurable condition that affects fish keepers, characterised by the desire to have more and more tanks.

Contrary to what I used to believe, it seems that having plants in during cycling is not a thing to avoid. The only 'problem' you might encounter is more algae than if you didn't have live plants, simply because without plants you can leave the lights off.

Could you clarify what has changed your mind. I have always been of the opinion that having plants is a bad idea for the following reasons:

• Increased exposure to algae as noted above.
• Plants compete with filter bacteria for ammonia; This hinders the cycle.
• Plants consumption of ammonia confuses the testing of ammonia levels.
• Plants consumption of nitrates confuses the testing of nitrate levels.

Just as a side note, the comments I've added to the how to fishless cycle threads are in a new post at the bottom of the threads. I was unable to edit the main method as they both already exceed the new limit of 10,000 characters per post!

Steve, I agree totally with your comments. I would have made some comments myself only I'm in the middle of decorating and have to post quickly!

I think this chap is arguing that plants need to become established before getting fish. I suppose, in theory, if you plant the tank then get fish straight away the plants could suddenly all die creating ammonia. In my experience with plants though they don't all die at once, they die slowly, bit by bit over more than 10 days. Maybe that's just the way I kill plants 

The ammonia and ammonium are indeed in equilibrium. As one is removed, the other will lose or gain a H⁺ to maintain the equilibrium.

Plants -  I do have the suspicion that this chap, who has many heavily planted tanks, is talking from the viewpoint of someone who can take plants from established tanks when setting up a new one; he forgets that most newcomers will go to the shop for their plants and quite possibly end up with dracenas and spider plants!

I cycled my betta's tank without plants, without even any decor or substrate. I too did not want plants (in my case a bit of java fern) affecting my readings. I would advise anyone who has not already planted before starting their fishless cycle to wait till afterwards. I do wish I'd remembered to include this in the how to threads    Having it in another post at the end is not the best place for it.