Author Topic: new tank 24 hours in.. (Read 9362 times) 18 replies

Thor God Of Thunder · « **on:** May 22, 2015, 05:58:56 PM »

no change to anything... ammonia nitrite and nitrate all the same levels. if things stay like this can I start adding fish? lol

plants seem to be going good though, got a few floating ones and their roots seem to have doubled in size, and the planted ones seem to be going strong too.

tank is still a bit cloudy is this normal?

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2015, 06:26:18 PM »

What are the actual levels, and how long since you added ammonia?
A tank is ready for fish when you can add a 3ppm dose of ammonia and 24 hours later have zero ammonia and zero nitrite. That's the last stage in the method as written up on here (see sticky in filtration and cycling section)

Cloudiness is common in new tanks. It is a bacterial bloom, though not the same bacteria we grow during cycling. These bacteria live in the water rather than on surfaces and multiply very quickly. They feed on organic matter, and the plasticiser in the new plastic things in the tank and in the corner sealant provide food for them. Once they've eaten all their food they will die off, though it is impossible to say how long that will take.

Richard W · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2015, 09:56:34 AM »

When starting a new tank, the greatest virtue is patience. It's always better to wait longer than necessary than rushing things, which often results in more problems pretty soon after.

Thor God Of Thunder · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2015, 11:36:22 AM »

hi guys, so 48 hours in I got 3 results so far.

Ammonia - 0.25ppm/0.25ppm/<0.25ppm so I got a drop in ammonia here
Nitrite - 0ppm/0ppm/0ppm LOL crazy right wait till you see next one
Nitrate - 5ppm/5ppm/10ppm I have no clue how this is being made with no nitrites lol
Ph - 7.6-7.8/ 7.6-7.8/ 8

Sue I don't have ammonia im using that cycle thing from fluval and just following instructions. I have a few plants in there with some pebbles and a big lava rock. Think I might do a water change today that PH has me worried ill try to take a picture and see if I can figure how to put it up on here. thanks.

Sue · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2015, 12:05:30 PM »

You still have to feed the bacteria. The manufacturers design those bottled bacteria things for fish-in cycles where the fish provide the ammonia. If you don't add ammonia, any bacteria that were actually still alive in the bottle (and most are dead) will starve and go dormant, then die. And it won't have the right species of nitrite eating bacteria as the use of the right one has been patented or copyrighted (whichever is the correct term) so no-one but Dr Tim's One & Only and Tetra Safe Start can have the right bacteria.
You need to get some ammonia in there asap. If the bottled stuff has worked, you should see zero ammonia and zero nitrite after 24 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if you have readings for ammonia but zero nitrite simply because the ammonia eaters haven't made any nitrite yet.

Some branches of Homebase (if there are any left near you) sell ammonia in the home cleaning section. If you have a The Range, I've been told they sell it. Otherwise, it's Ebay or Amazon.
Add enough to give 3ppm, then test after 24 hours. If you have readings for ammonia or nitrite or both, you need to follow this.

Nitrate is the most difficult one to test. The results are only ball park. Have you been shaking the one bottle till your arm nearly falls off? One of the reagents in that bottle settles out and the shaking is needed to get it back into the liquid.

Thor God Of Thunder · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2015, 12:20:50 PM »

yeah I shake the second bottle for 30 secs vigorously lol then shake the tube for 1 min after its all in there then wait 5 mins.

Thor God Of Thunder · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2015, 01:03:37 PM »

Quote from: Sue on May 23, 2015, 12:05:30 PM

You still have to feed the bacteria. The manufacturers design those bottled bacteria things for fish-in cycles where the fish provide the ammonia. If you don't add ammonia, any bacteria that were actually still alive in the bottle (and most are dead) will starve and go dormant, then die. And it won't have the right species of nitrite eating bacteria as the use of the right one has been patented or copyrighted (whichever is the correct term) so no-one but Dr Tim's One & Only and Tetra Safe Start can have the right bacteria.
You need to get some ammonia in there asap. If the bottled stuff has worked, you should see zero ammonia and zero nitrite after 24 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if you have readings for ammonia but zero nitrite simply because the ammonia eaters haven't made any nitrite yet.

Some branches of Homebase (if there are any left near you) sell ammonia in the home cleaning section. If you have a The Range, I've been told they sell it. Otherwise, it's Ebay or Amazon.
Add enough to give 3ppm, then test after 24 hours. If you have readings for ammonia or nitrite or both, you need to follow this.

ammonia has gone down and nitrate has doubled its the nitrite that has remained at 0.
Nitrate is the most difficult one to test. The results are only ball park. Have you been shaking the one bottle till your arm nearly falls off? One of the reagents in that bottle settles out and the shaking is needed to get it back into the liquid.

Sue · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2015, 02:26:15 PM »

I should have explained that most of the bottled bacteria products on the market are generally regarded as snake oil. They do nothing to cycle a tank but give the new fishkeeper the idea that all they need to do is use one. Use one by all means, but prove it has worked by testing it with ammonia. If you don't there is a great risk that you will get fish and find yourself in doing a fish-in cycle, with all the water changes that entails.
Fish forums are full of newbies who used one of these products, believed the hype and come looking to find out why their fish are dying.

The fact that your ammonia has gone down but nitrite stayed at zero does not mean the tank is ready for fish yet. Nitrate is so unreliable that I wouldn't rely on that without adding ammonia to prove that bacteria in the filter and on other surfaces can remove 3ppm ammonia in 24 hours. This is recommended even when using a whole chunk of mature media.

Thor God Of Thunder · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2015, 03:54:59 PM »

I've been looking for ammonia on amazon but frankly kinda scared to put that stuff in. the only aquarium product I found was to remove it lol.

Sue · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2015, 04:09:01 PM »

Ammonia from a bottle is exactly the same stuff that the fish excrete. As long as you don't sniff a huge lungful or spill it down your clothes, it is safe to use. When I cycled a tank a couple of years ago I got a babies' medicine dosing syringe from the chemist and used that to add ammonia to the tank.

I will confess that I have a degree in chemistry so using such chemicals doesn't scare me. Compared to some of the things I used in lab class, ammonia is quite mild. Did you know that ammonia is used as a household cleaner? My grandmother used it to clean brass. The reason it is not easy to get hold of is not because it is dangerous but because it can be used for certain illegal practices.

Sanjo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2015, 04:39:45 PM »

Thor I had trouble cycling my tank (Sue can confirm that - I was always fretting about it!)

I never could seem to get the ammonia right and made a complete pigs ear of it.
I did use the Ammonia (from Homebase) but the ammonia itself wasn't my problem, it was my arithmetic.

I eventually got it sorted and when it came to cycling the second tank I used an online ammonia calculator like this one http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator..
You put whether you want litres or gallons, the volume, the ppm you want to cycle too the percentage of ammonia in what you are using and it tells you how much ammonia to put in. If you are using the Homebase one then it's 9.5%.

It makes it so much easier. I am now cycling my third tank, a tiny quarantine one ready for a couple of new fish and being small I could never have worked out how much ammonia to put in.
The calculator did though and the tank is well on the way to be fully cycled in just a few days (I did use mature media from my big tank too though).

If you go down the ammonia route, and I would recommend it, the go to a pharmacy (not Tescos they only do big ones) and get a baby's medicine syringe the 1ml size as you may only need very small amounts.
In fact get a couple they are so useful.

Hope that helps anyway

Sue · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2015, 05:05:08 PM »

This is the website address you meant. It's the calculator I use. I'm a member of that forum too.

Sanjo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2015, 05:55:55 PM »

That's the one Sue.

Thor God Of Thunder · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2015, 09:25:43 PM »

I've been looking for ammonia on amazon but can you guys give me a brand or a name?

Extreme_One · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2015, 09:40:08 PM »

This is the one I'm using.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kleen-Off-500ml-Ammonia/dp/B00755MEMA

Plenty of reviewers are fishless-cyclers and recommending this product.

Cod_only_knows · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2015, 09:55:08 PM »

Good spot, wish I'd known about this when I was cycling!

Richard W · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2015, 06:48:54 AM »

You can get plain ammonia from Homebase if you have one nearby. It comes in a plain white plastic bottle from their "basic" cleaning section.

Sanjo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2015, 08:31:36 AM »

Just check Thor that there are no additives, ie perfumes, surficants. It should be plain old ammonia

Sue · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2015, 09:47:48 AM »

I got Kleen Off ammonia from my local diy shop.

Be careful with Kleen Off. Jeyes make several products in that range and I once read of someone trying to cycle with oven cleaner rather than household ammonia.

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