New Starter - Fish Advice

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Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2018, 09:30:58 AM »
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Something to bear in mind when it comes to substrate is that you want cories. So you can't have sharp substrate, and from what I understand some of the plants substrates are sharp. Others leach ammonia into the tank for several months (ADA soil is notorious for this).
In other words, do plenty research  ;D


Question to those with soil capped with gravel or sand and cories - do cories dig enough to mix the layers badly?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2018, 10:03:36 AM »
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I have planting substrate capped with sand.
The panda cories have not dug enough to mix the layers, and neither have the gold stripe cories in another tank.
However, the peppered cories in the temperate tank, who I admit are quite large, have tended to dig in one particular corner. Luckily this was the front left of the tank, and it was an area that didn't have planting substrate under the sand because I wasn't planning to have any plants in that corner, and the sand was sloped (higher at the back), so perhaps this was just a prime spot for their rummaging.
I have a layer of sand approximately 2cm thick on top of my planting substrate, and it takes even the peppered cories quite some time (weeks - months) to shift that amount of sand. If there are any concerns about cories mixing/releasing substrate, it's just something to keep an eye on, and perhaps move the sand back, or add more sand in that area, to keep things in place.

Offline Matt

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 10:39:40 AM »
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Something to bear in mind when it comes to substrate is that you want cories. So you can't have sharp substrate, and from what I understand some of the plants substrates are sharp. Others leach ammonia into the tank for several months (ADA soil is notorious for this).
In other words, do plenty research  ;D

Sue is completely right on this... but just to give you an option that would work in a planting substrate as I'm guessing you won't have considered these products before... see https://tropica.com/en/plant-care/aquarium-soil/aquarium-soil/

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 11:35:11 AM »
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I have used that brand previously, and have also used JBL Pro Flora AquaBasis plus. For me it just depends on which fish store I go to. Both have worked under a layer of sand in my tanks.

Offline Matt

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2018, 01:49:17 PM »
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Tropicas poor naming of their products isn't helping here... tropicas ' soil' is a complete product thag doesn't need capping and their 'substrate' is a base layer which does  :cheers:

Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2018, 03:28:44 PM »
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Yea I think I’m going to go with tropica plant growth substrate with gravel or sand above

I’m going to heavily plant the tank from the start and I’m going to copy one of the tanks on the tropica site (the easy section) and wait a few weeks and go with sues advice of adding 8 harlequins and test the water daily.

I haven’t had a chance to look at your site yet Matt but I will tonight when I get home.

Yea so my final list for my fish looks like
3 honey gourami 1m 2f
16 Harlequin Rasbora
16 cardinal tetra
16 panda Cory
I may add cherry shrimp but I don’t know yet

Probably going to do a blog once I get the tank (will be after Christmas )

Thank you for everyone’s advice

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2018, 03:41:52 PM »
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Top with sand for the panda cories. They will rummage in it for food, and if you go with gravel (which can be a bit sharp/rough) it can cause damage to the barbels near their mouths.

Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2018, 04:17:04 PM »
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The cheapest sand (if that matters) is play sand. Argos and B & Q are the usual places to look. Being fit for children to play in it doesn't have anything nasty in it, just a lot of dust which needs washing out.

Fish need a darker substrate rather than a lighter one. They have evolved over darker substrates so they are programmed to expect this. This is why fish are pale on the underside so they don't stand out against the sky to a predator when viewed from underneath, but their backs are dark so they are hard to see over a dark river/lake floor by a predator looking down on them.

Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2018, 06:50:41 PM »
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Yes defiantly think I will go for the tropica substrate with Argos play sand above .

Looking at the instructions on the tropica substrate it says add about a 1cm layer , but how deep would the sand be that goes on top? 4cm?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2018, 07:45:06 PM »
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Use a layer of sand up to 2cm thick.
A lot of planting substrates suggest using a layer of gravel 4cm deep, but you can use half that for sand.

Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2018, 12:21:07 PM »
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@Matt a few questions for you,

---ive just been looking at your site in the fertiliser section, and i see you recommend  The Aquascaper Complete Liquid Plant Food, but it says if you have a heavily stocked tank " we recommend that you have a separate macro and micro fertiliser " so if my tank was 73% stocked(according to the community creator) with a lot of plants would you not recommend the complete liquid plant food?

---how much fertiliser do you actually put in on a daily basis? would there be instructions that come with it?

---"give your plants a stable daily dose slightly in excess of the recommended amounts. You should do large weekly water changes to accompany this dosing regime," everywhere ive read says do smaller (10-20% ) weekly water changes rather than large water changes , so if i do large water changes wouldnt this affect the fish? (what is classed as a large change)?

sorry for the barrage of questions !!  :-[


Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2018, 12:28:38 PM »
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sorry another quick question to everyone

would you recommend "dipping" your plants before adding them to tank?

for that matter would you recommend dipping fish before adding them to a tank?

Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2018, 12:36:26 PM »
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I can answer the last question!

The recommended water change regime is at least 50% once a week. Smaller, more frequent water changes are not as effective as one large weekly one.
You will read that water changes are necessary to remove nitrate. However, when the tank is heavily planted, it does not make much nitrate as the plants use just about all the ammonia made by the fish and they don't turn it into nitrate. But there are a lot more things excreted and secreted by fish which also build up in the water, although we don't have test kits to measure them. So even though there is little nitrate in a planted tank, we still need to do water changes to remove all those other things. [I once worked in a hospital lab and you'd be amazed at the things we tested in urine. Fish produce similar, if not exactly the same, waste products]





Something else that has occurred to me. Lights.

Fish expect the tank lights to come on every day at the same time, for the same duration. You will need to select a duration to suit your plants, and the time of day to suit your lifestyle. You don't want the lights to be on while you are out, and the tank in darkness when you are at home.
The room should have either daylight or room lights on for at least an hour before the tank lights turn on (equivalent to slowly brightening dawn) and then again for at least an hour after the tank lights turn off (dusk). And there should be a period of total darkness in the room for several hours a day. This is usually a night when we are all in bed!
This 'dawn and dusk' on each side of the tank lights on is simply to allow the fish' eyes to adjust. If the tank lights turn on in a dark room, or the tank lights turn off when the room is in darkness, the fish become stressed until their eyes adjust.

Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2018, 12:43:33 PM »
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What do you mean by dipping?

If you buy plants grown in the EU, they will not have been treated with chemicals. Plants grown outside the EU must be treated with snail killing chemicals before import. This legislation resulted from the ban on import and spreading of apple snails within the EU after one species was found in a river in Spain. The bureaucrats had decided that were also going to ban plants from outside the EU until this compromise was reached.

As for treating plants yourself to kill snails, again this is not a good idea if you ever want to keep snails or shrimps in the tank. Snails are not bad, they are actually an important part of a tank ecosystem.
Treating plants for possible contamination with fish parasites/bacteria is also not really a good idea, but leaving them in a bucket of water for several days should allow the 'bugs' to die off without a host.



Dipping fish is not a good idea and it is harmful to them. Good practice is to have a separate small tank to use as a hospital and quarantine tank. New fish are placed in quarantine for around 4 weeks, but medication added only if the fish show signs of illness, not as a preventative.
A quarantine tank needs to have either a cycled filter or lots of live plants.

Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2018, 12:53:04 PM »
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so you would recommend before i put any new fish into a tank to keep them in a separate once for four weeks yes? and if they show no signs after then to add them to the tank..   looks like im gonna have to cycle 2 tanks


Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2018, 02:43:19 PM »
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If you get all the fish from the same shop within a couple of weeks there should be no problem as they'll all have been exposed to the same bugs. The danger comes when you get fish from several shops - and each shop will potentially have different bugs in their tanks - or if you get more fish quite a long time later so there is a chance that even with the same shop they could have a different set of bugs by the time you buy the last ones.

This is one advantage of a fishless cycle using ammonia. You know that you have enough bacteria at the end of the cycle so you can buy all your fish on the same day from the same shop. Provided the shop will let you - Pets@Home used to have a small limit on the number of fish (something like 6 fish per customer) sold to any one customer on any one occasion, and they still might. In this case take a few friends with you and each buy one set of fish  ;D



However, with the fish mentioned so far, even a 40 litre tank would be plenty big enough and if you got lots of elodea, which is fairly cheap, and just leave it floating that should be enough to take of the ammonia. And it would make the fish feel safer if there was an elodea jungle.

Offline Matt

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2018, 09:39:17 PM »
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What are your tap water nitrate levels? If high I would recommend alternate dosing of micro only and complete fertiliser. There are instructions on the bottle regarding how much to dose per litre.

Offline Sue

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2018, 09:43:39 PM »
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I suspect his nitrate is low if Newcastle is provided by Northumbrian Water  ;)

Offline Mici

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2018, 10:24:24 PM »
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I would have to get a test kit to check my nitrate levels but yea I'm supplied by Northumbrian water

Offline Matt

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Re: New starter - fish advice
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2018, 07:00:49 AM »
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Northumbria waters website should have a section where you can find out about the water quality in your area, normally by entering your postcode. This will tell you the average nitrate in your supply.

If we assume it's low though for a moment, go with the complete product. If you find you are getting too much nitrate at the end of a week before you do your water change you may need to reduce your dosing. Does that make sense?

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