Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: gerd1986 on May 18, 2016, 10:28:32 AM
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Hi There,
Been browsing the forum for some time and I'm hoping the community could help me with stocking my new tank with fish.
Based on the advise I have read, I want to plan what to stock now so I have a plan rather than trying to choose fish ad hoc.
I have a Roma 240 tank package and will be starting a Fishless cycle tomorrow, here is the stock I'm thinking of:
Angelfish x 5
Boesmani Rainbow x 5
Albino Bristlenose Pleco Longfin x 1
Clown Loach x 4
Kribensis x 4
Red honey Gourami x 3
Full Red Agassizii x 2 (Pair)
Silver Shark x 1
Discus x 4
Edit: I'm planning to introduce the fish a little at a time over 6 - 12 months, NOT chucking them all in at once.
So now onto the questions:
I have put all of these 'types' of fish into the community creator but not all of the specific fish are in there so I'm assuming these will live happily together?
I know the Silver Shark will get too big for the tank hence only 1 of them and I have agreed with my local aquarium shop that they will take it back once it gets too big, is there any other concerns I should have here?
Plants - I have been trying to read up on plants but I'm not really getting anywhere, I know I'm going to need a few plants with these types of fish but I'm worried about the fish eating them or getting the right type. Can anyone suggest a few plant types I can introduce?
Thanks for your help in advance.
Gary
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Hello Gerd1986 and welcome to the forum. :wave:
I haven't been keeping fish for long enough to be offering much advice, but one of the more experienced keepers will be along to help.
Please keep us posted on your progress, with lots of pictures (we love pictures).
:cheers:
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Hi gerd, welcome to the forum :wave:
Before I get round to the fish, do you know whether you have hard or soft tap water? That info should be somewhere on your water company's website. You have soft water fish on your list (angels, apistos, kribs, discus) and hard water fish (rainbows). Unless your water is in the middle of the hardness range, you could have problems. And discus need soft water not just middling.
For the most part, your wish list looks fine. The things I would bring up are;
Silver sharks are a shoaling species; you need more than one. But as you are aware, they are big fish. I would leave them out.
Clown loaches need a bigger tank than the Roma 240, and more than 4 of them. They need a tank with a footprint at least 180 x 60 cm. But there are a lot of other loach species out there which would be very suitable for your tank.
Discus might be a problem as they need warmer water than the other fish on the list.
Kribensis are African, the other cichlids are American; they do not understand each others' signals and there may be problems keeping kribs with the others.
The other fish (eg rainbows) may be too boisterous for gouramis of any sort.
I would leave out the silver shark, discus and gouramis; change the species of loach; get more rainbows; leave out the kribs and get more apistos. You could easily have 1 male and half a dozen females in that size tank, and females are a nice bright yellow rather than the drab colours that females are in some types of fish.
One thing to be aware of - if you end up with a male and female angels that decide to pair up and lay eggs, you could have a tank with two angels in three quarters of it, and all the other fish down in the remaining quarter. Have a back-up plan ready in case this happens.
Sorry, I seem to have shot down most of your list :-\
One other piece of advice - while the tank is cycling, go to as many fish shops as you can to see what they stock. They will stock more fish than in the profiles on here and you may well change your mind :)
I'll leave plants to other members. I have just java fern and anubias attached to wood - I'm not terribly green fingered.
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Hi gerd. Welcome to the forum. :wave:
I think Sue's post covers everything regarding fish.
As for plants ... they're not a requirement by any means and lots of Fishkeepers get by with artificial plants.
On the other hand there are plenty of Fishkeepers (me included) that wouldn't dream of putting anything artificial in the aquarium.
Planted tanks range from low-tech setups, with plant species suited to lower light and minimal to no feeding, up to high-tech setups with plant species suited to high light with fertilisers and injected Carbon dioxide.
Both these approaches should be achievable for anyone, with the right planning and investment.
Incidentally, the plants Sue has mentioned fit into the low-tech category and are easy to grow and don't require anything added to allow them to thrive.
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Hello Gary, and welcome to the forum.
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Welcome, Gary. :wave:
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Thank you all for the warm welcome.
So I didn't manage to get the Fishless cycle going and it will have to wait till Monday no as I'm not around for the weekend.
In terms of stock I have found that I have hard water therefore I researched again and think I will go with the following:
6 Yellow Labs (10cm x 6 = 60cm)
6 demasoni (7.5cm x 6 = 45cm)
1 Synodontis petricola (10cm)
6 Rainbow Fish (10cm x 6 = 60cm)
6 Tiger Barbs (10cm x 6 = 60cm)
6 Serpae Tetra (4cm x 6 = 24cm)
360cm Stocking level = 259cm Which should give them plenty of room.
I would like some low-tech plants so suggestions would be good, I didn't see any mentioned in Sue's post.
Again thank you for all your help and a warm welcome, once I have built the tank I will start posting up pictures of my progress.
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I would like some low-tech plants so suggestions would be good, I didn't see any mentioned in Sue's post.
Java fern and anubias ;)
I'm about to pick holes in your list again :-\
Labs and demasoni are Rift Lake cichlids (mbuna from Lake Malawi to be precise); they shouldn't be kept with anything other than inhabitants of the same lake. You can get away with some plecs and catfish, but that's all.
Rift Lake cichlids are very territorial and need to be kept overstocked to prevent any one fish setting up a territory. This is about my total knowledge of Rift Lake cichlids.
Tiger barbs and serpae tetras are just about the nippiest fish in the hobby. They would get along together but with little else. The recommendation with these fish is to keep big shoals as they then tend to keep the nippiness within the species. They set up and maintain hierarchies by this nipping and when there aren't enough of them they include the other species in the tank as part of the shoal.
I would be concerned that with the numbers in your list they'd have a go at the rainbowfish.
So either fish from one of the Rift Lakes (either L. Malawi or L. Tanganika, not both) or tiger barbs & serpaes and something that could cope with them, or something else.
Sorry.
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Wow I didn't realize there are so many variable to take into account, I'm just looking for a stock of bright colorful fish. Hence where I think I'm gong wrong :)
Back to the drawing board again, could I be cheeky and ask if anyone has an example list or 2 of colorful fish for a hard water tank, it maybe simpler this way other than me posting lots of different lists?
Lets start with 6 x Rainbow fish as I think these are the most colorful and the 1 x Synodontis petricola, what colorful fish would get along with these?
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Welcome to the forum. :wave:
What sort of water do you have? Hard or soft? Once we know we can help more. You have plenty of time to adjust your list if you're doing a fishless cycle as start to finish it can take 30+ days unless you have mature media.
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Hi Fiona,
I have hard water, thanks for the reply :)
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Hi Fiona,
I have hard water, thanks for the reply :)
I have very hard water, so anything from my list would be ok in your tank. White tipped tetras are my newest find, the colours on the database here don't do them justice, especial the males (check youtube videos). Rainbow fish are great for hard water and there's so many different types you're almost spoilt for choice. They aren't amazingly brightly coloured but a pair of threadfin males displaying are a beautiful sight, blue eyed forktails are stunning.
Male guppies are very colourful but not that hardy, however male endlers are very colourful and fun to watch. Mollies and platies are also very brightly coloured and there are many forms, I don't keep live bearers anymore due to the hassle of what to do with surviving offspring.
What I did when I started was visit aquarium shops and made a list of what I liked, then I came home and researched them until I had a decent stocking list. My tastes in fish have changed a bit from when I first started though.
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This is a good article on hard water aquaria: Clickety-click (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm)
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Thank you Colin. Excellent article!
Skittler
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I enjoyed reading that :) The only comment I would make was that I found Indian Glassfish completely unsuited to a community tank as the buggers ate my CPDs
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Fiona, maybe it was your CPDs that weren't suited to a community tank?????????
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Fiona, maybe it was your CPDs that weren't suited to a community tank?????????
Nope they're quite happy in the 200l :P
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Thanks for the article Colin. When I first started looking at fish I saw lots I liked, but they were for soft water. As I've spent more time researching fish I've got lots that are good in hard water and they are great, but it's always good to know more about the fish that will work well for the water that I have.
My recent purchases have settled in, and in my 125L I'm going to get more of the same as the silver hatchet fish are great. I love watching them feed and I cannot explain how much I adore a fish that, front on, looks like a silver matchstick with a pair of googly eyes stuck on the top. ;D
Obviously, one of my favourite hard water fish has to be the dwarf puffer. I love feeding them and watching them potter around the tank exploring anything new. They've recently had some new floating plants, and I'm looking forward to upgrading their tank for a larger, fully planted 220L tank.
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Puffers are great, have you ever considered bumble bee gobies Donna? They actually fit in very well with the dwarf puffers. The contrast between the innocent 'Oooo whats that?' expression of the puffers and the grumpy old man face of the bumbles is great. Plus there's the bonus of the colour. We've been successfully keeping them together for a couple of years now.
However they are both a bit specialist and not really community fish.
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I had considered bumble bee gobies, as well as some others, as I think that all gobies have cute faces. I hadn't considered putting them in with the puffers though. I will certainly consider doing so after the tank upgrade. ;D
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The link Colin gave is by Neale Monks, one of the leading fish keeping experts. You can trust anything he writes.
Some of the best, most colourful fish for hard water are the common livebearers - endlers, guppies, platies, swordtails and mollies. The downside is that a group of both sexes will give you a lot of fry. Every female will drop a batch of fry every month. The answer is to get just one sex. Females will still drop fry for a few months as they can store sperm, but should eventually stop. Males, particularly swordtail males, could fight though.
Do you have a particular rainbow species in mind? It might be easiest if you take a look at your local shops and see which rainbows they stock, then take it from there.
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But don't get too hung up on "hard water fish". There are plenty of the more popular fish that will do perfectly well in a wide range of water conditions. That's one reason why they are popular!
If you have hard water it means that you should NOT have specifically soft water demanding fish, which is different from saying that you can ONLY have hard water specific fish. Look at the profiles on this site for any fish you fancy.
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And for any fish you see in shops which are not on this site, look at Seriously Fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/)
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So much great advise on here, I really appreciate it!
So the tank is setup now and filled it up last night so I'm starting the fishless cycle. I will post up pictures tonight as I know you lot like pictures. I must say that the Python I bough for filling the tank is amazing! What a great piece of kit!
On the Plant front, I am choosing for synthetic plants. I'm really not a fan of the real ones and I don't want something else to look after.
On the fish front I have decided I'm getting way too ahead of myself, I'm now considering just starting with Rainbow fish, baby Angel fish and Tetras. The reason for the baby angel fish is I'm hoping they grow up with the tetras and don't try and eat them. Finally a L200 or queen arabesques Plec to help out with cleaning.
I know Angelfish are suited to Soft Water but I have ready many articles with people happily keeping Angels in Hard water so I'm going to give it a try.
I'm planning on mixing Angelfish and Rainbow fish specifies to get a lot of colours in the tank!
@Colin - Great article, brilliant read...thank you!
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A couple of tips for you -
Silk plants look more realistic than plastic ones
Deep bodied tetras are less likely to be eaten than torpedo shaped tetras
Since you want imitation plants, don't put them in till the cycle has finished. I know they would make the tank look nicer but they will get covered in brown algae (diatoms) which you'll have to clean off. And leave the light off to reduce the amount of algae. It's only when you use live plants that you need the light on, and with no fish in the tank you don't need lights during cycling.
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Thanks sue, I have left the lights off for now.
I haven't bought the plats yet and I'm glad I haven't, thank you for the advise about getting silk ones.
Do you have an example of Deep bodied tetras? Like the diamond ones?
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Yes, that sort of shape. Black widow is another example. There are a few around, but avoid serpae's as they will likely nip the fins of angels.
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As for the silk plants, mine are all silk too, mainly from Aqua One, AquaManta, Hugo Kamishi, and BiOrb. The ones with the ball-shaped, weighted base are particularly good as they don't topple over whereas sometimes the other ones can topple over if the substrate isn't carefully built up around the base to cover them.
If buying online, read the description and look at the picture carefully - there are a few plants advertised as silk but actually only the leaves are silk whereas the stems (which can sometimes be the bulk of the plant) are plastic. If the description says "silk leaves" rather than just "silk", then that's usually a sign that the remainder of the plant isn't silk.
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Thanks FCMF, I will have a look at the fully silk Plants.
So I'm into day 2 of the fish-less cycle and I'm hoping someone could tell me if I'm on the right track?
Tap Water:
Acidity PH: 7
General Hardness GH: 302.6ppm
Alkalinity KH: 178ppm
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10ppm
1 Day after adding Fluval Cycle (I got this park of a package so thought I would try it):
Acidity PH: 8
General Hardness GH: 302.6ppm
Alkalinity KH: 178ppm
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20ppm
12hr after adding Ammonia (I though I should do it properly so switched to Ammonia):
Ammonia: 10ppm
24hr after adding Ammonia
Ammonia: 10ppm
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm
So I there is obviously way too much ammonia in the tank, do I just leave this now and let it come down naturally as the bacteria builds up?
Cheers,
Gary
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In my opinion you need to do a water change to get the ammonia down to 3 ppm. 10 ppm is just too much.
1 ppm ammonia makes 2.7 ppm nitrite, so that 10 ppm will make 27 ppm nitrite. At 15 ppm, nitrite inhibits the growth of the nitrite eating bacteria so the cycle stalls. Since no test kits can measure as high as 15 ppm (they just show the highest colour on the chart) you won't know if your nitrite has passed the critical level.
The method written up on here was designed so that nitrite could never get to that figure if followed strictly.
You need to do a 70% water change.
Look on it as good practice for when you have fish :)
Oh, and Nutrafin (or Fluval or whatever it's called now) Cycle isn't very highly regarded. Even if it worked it would still need a source of ammonia. It might help with growing the ammonia eaters but it is one of those that is reckoned not to do anything for the nitrite eaters.
This product used to be called Nutrafin Cycle, but Nutrafin and Fluval are both made by Hagen so it's probably the same stuff.
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Thanks again for the advice Sue!
So I have done a 70% water change, I bough a python which has made life a lot easier for the water changes.
What I have just realized when writing this is that I didn't treat the water I just put in. :vcross: so when I get home tonight I need to do that first thing or have I just killed off any (if any) work that has already been done?
After the water change the Ammonia went down to 2-3ppm but the test kit I have doesn't have a specific colour for 3 so I'm eyeing it a bit. I'm using this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L5I8N64/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L5I8N64/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
The geek in me has created a spreadsheet to track the progress of the cycle, and I'm hoping this makes it easier to find any issues:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wGCqRdzZYwe3DQF_xZJUIA4iCt-dn8qbhziGJBfYTQM/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wGCqRdzZYwe3DQF_xZJUIA4iCt-dn8qbhziGJBfYTQM/edit?usp=sharing)
Lastly I have made a contribution to the site as this is such an amazing source of information, help and a friendly community. Thank you all so much for the help so far.
And for those who are interested I have added a picture of my tank, I know I'm going to get heat about the ornaments in the Acquarium but each to their own :) We love it. Silk plants going in once the cycle is complete.
(http://)
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I still maintain the spreadsheets I started on all 3 tanks. They are an invaluable source of data, particularly if you have a problem ..... or, e.g. "how long have I had that fish". Although, I have to say mine have really now become diaries rather than spreadsheets. I find that if I don't record, e.g., when I did a w/c, it's easy to miss one if you're busy. There is no substitute for the facts!
Skittler
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Nice tank Gerd. You won't get heat for the decor, there's plenty there for the fish to nose around and hide away in. Broken lines of sight are needed in a tank so a fish can escape if it's being hassled for any reason.
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What I have just realized when writing this is that I didn't treat the water I just put in. :vcross: so when I get home tonight I need to do that first thing or have I just killed off any (if any) work that has already been done?
If you mean you forgot to add dechlorinator, no problem. The few bacteria in your tap water will still be there and multiplying then once the dechlorinator is added the newly formed bacteria won't be killed off before they can divide in turn to make more. The danger time is with newly forming bacteria colonies. Yours won't have got started properly yet.
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Nice tank. Please keep posting pictures as you add to it, we enjoy watching the progress.
Nothing wrong with keeping a spreadsheet. I've moved my tanks around, planted them, and occasionally moved fish to different tanks, I'd have no idea what was going on if I didn't keep a record. :)
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Are your input and output pipes next to each other? I think they need to be at opposite ends of the tank, I could be wrong though :-\
edited to add: I think the tank looks lovely however your corals may well get covered with brown algae as you've just started cycling the tank and they'd be impossible to get clean unless they're resin
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Very smart looking tank, it'll look even better with foliage 8)
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Lovely tank.
[I'm assuming that's a timer beside the plug. If so, that's absolutely fine, but if it happened to be one of the plug-in perfumes (which i don't think it is but just double-checking), then best to remove it as it can cause all sorts of problems if near a fishtank.]
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Or it could be a JETech wirefree door chime ;) It's the musical notes on the front that gave it away ;D
The door chime in question (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Doorbell-Portable-DoorBell-Indicator-Batteries-Required/dp/B0129TILTG/ref=zg_bs_1938270031_1/278-8226667-4593708)