Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Rigsby1208 on April 11, 2016, 09:43:26 PM
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Hi
I'm quite new to fish keeping, but seem to be getting on OK.
The key problem I have is a lot of algae build up all over tank sides, stones in the bottom of the tank, plants etc.
I do the 25% bi weekly water changes and cleaning but the siphon doesnt get close to cleaning the stones at the tank base, and I have to take them out to give them a decent clean every month or so.
Is this normal??
Would an algae eating fish help?
My tank is under stocked so shouldnt be a problem from that perspective.
In terms of water, its quite hard and PH and nitrates on the upper limit.
Thanks in advance
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What type of algae and how long has your tank been up and running and what do you have in there currently? Also how long are your lights on for an is the tnk near a window?
Once we know that we'll have a better idea of causes, how to help and recommendations to solve the problem.
Welcome to the forum by the way :wave:
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Hi Rigsby1208 and welcome to the forum. :wave:
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Fiona asked about the type of algae - this (http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm) website has an algae ID guide. The causes and cures it gives are mainly for heavily planted tanks, but knowing what algae you are dealing with will help.
All tanks have some algae, the problems arise when it starts to take over.
It is better to cure the cause of the algae rather than buy fish. Different fish eat different kinds of algae, and with some types of algae there is nothing that eats it. And before recommending any fish we would need to know how big the tank is, what fish you already have, and if your tap water is soft or hard.
The more info you can give us, the better :)
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Hi
My tank is a 22ltr.
I have a panda corydora, a siamese fighter, and 7 neon tetras.
Its been running for a year or two, but I have inherited it from the previous owner approximately 3 months ago.
Lights are an LED which seems quite bright, it is on for about 14 hours a day.
The tank is situated in a relatively shady spot not near any windows.
In terms of the type of Algae, it doesnt fit any of the types shown on the website you guided me to very well.
Its kind of a brown covering all over the sides of the tank, thermometer etc, but appears as a black covering on my plants.
I have also notice a slight occurance of the thread algae recently
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The algae you've described sounds like Brown Diatoms which are a microscopic creature with similar needs to Algae.
Here are conditions that are beneficial to diatoms:
- Light
- Silicates (rocks or sand containing silica)
- Nitrates (a waste product of aquarium life)
- Still or stagnant water
- Hard or mineral-rich water
There is another problem though, I'm afraid your tank is overstocked and inadequate for the fish you're keeping.
(http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/new-fishkeepers/lots-of-algae-forming/?action=dlattach;attach=3220;image)
At 22L, with a likely length of between 30 - 40cm It's too small for Neons and too small for Panda Corys.
With the number of fish you're keeping you are overstocked, meaning the colony of denitrifying bacteria in your filter and on the surfaces of your tank will struggle to cope with the waste produced. Waste in an aquatic environment is dealt with by the Nitrogen Cycle. There is an easy to follow article describing the Nitrogen Cycle here (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/fish-or-fishless-cycling-and-aquarium-maturation).
Do you test your water for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates?
With an overstocked tank you might want to consider changing your regime to 15% water changes twice a week.
I'd also consider reducing the time your lights are on to 12 hours, or less.
These things might help with the diatom problem.
On an entirely separate subject, I just noticed this is my 666th post here!!! :yikes:
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I have to agree with Extreme. A tank that size is fine for a betta (siamese fighter) and not much else. With the amount of fish you have, there will be a lot of nitrate being made by the filter from the fish's waste. Unless there are a lot of live plants in the tank to use it as fertiliser, that is one contributor to algae. The lights on for that long is another cause.
Brown algae tends to be diatoms which are common in new tanks where there is ammonia in the water, so I would definitely test for that. if you don't have your own testers, get it tested at a shop but ask them for the number not just something like 'fine'.
What to do:
Have the lights on for less time. If you don't have any real plants, it can go down to as little as 6 hours.
A really big water change (leave just enough water for the fish to be able to swim upright) will get rid of a lot of nitrate, then I would change at least a third of the water a couple of times a week with that many fish. At the same time, if you have gravel on the bottom of the tank, give that a really good clean to get rid of any fish poo and uneaten food which will contribute to the nitrate level.
And rehome some fish. The panda cory really needs some more of its own kind. Do you know anyone who has any and would take yours? f not, maybe see if a fish shop will take it.
Of course you could always get a bigger tank for the neons and more cories, and leave the siamese fighter in the 22 litre :)
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Of course you could always get a bigger tank for the neons and more cories, and leave the siamese fighter in the 22 litre :)
I find that another/bigger tank is the answer to most things. ;D
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Thanks for all the advice.
As it happens I cracked my tank a couple of weeks ago trying to get all the stones out of the bottom of it to clean of the algae. I have just ordered a 55 ltr tank to move to so I guess I should be OK from the over stocking point of view?
Im surprised the tetras will need a really big tank as they are tiny, how come?
Any advice for some fish which will be interesting / colourful (like the siamese fighter) that will be happy in the new 55 ltr tank?
Would it be worth getting some nerite snails as well?
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Nerite snails will help with algae, though even they don't eat all types. Finding the cause of the algae and sorting that out is the best way to go.
There are a lot of small fish that need bigger tanks than you'd think from looking at them. It is because of the way they swim. A lot of small fish are fast swimmers so they need the swimming room of a larger tank than their size alone would imply.
A 55 litre is fine for neons, and you could get some more panda cories ;D
Do you know if you have soft or hard water? That info should be somewhere on your water company's website.
If you want smallish fish, and your water is softish, you could go for ember tetras for red or Microdevario kubotai for green (the last ones are sometimes sold as green tetras or neon green rasboras).
Provided the flow from the filter isn't too strong, look at honey gouramis and in particular the yellow or red variants (provided you don't move the betta over as bettas and gouramis don't get on)
But get the new tank set up first, move the fish over together with some media from the 22 litre - leave enough for the betta. Once the tank has settled and you are over any mini-spike in ammonia and/or nitrite, then you can get more fish a few at a time.
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A 55-litre tank is certainly better than the 22-litre. You'll find that the neons' colours will brighten once they're in a better environment, more suited to their requirements.
If you kept the 7 neon tetras and increased your panda cories to 6 or 7 in number, you should be about fully stocked. NB. Cories do better in a sand substrate as gravel substrates wear down their barbels.
Alternatively, if you sold / gave away the single panda cory (eg through Aquarist Classifieds), then you could probably get approx 6 endlers - they'd be perfect in your hard water. If you sold / gave away the 7 neon tetras too (which do better in very soft / soft water), then you could probably increase the number of endlers to about 12, provided you had no other fish in the tank.
The best way to work out appropriate numbers is to have a smaller number to begin with (say 6), see how the water quality does (if you can keep ammonia and nitrITES at 0, and nitrATES under 20), and if you're having no trouble keeping them under those levels with your bi-weekly water changes, then you might be able to increase numbers little by little up to a max of 12 (or whatever the Community Creator recommends with your tank and filter specifications). However, it sounds from what you've said, that your nitrates are quite high.
I tend to go to 80% of what the Community Creator (available via http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-profiles) recommends - it allows for the tank not being full to the brim with water and also for the decor inside. I probably could stock beyond that, and did for a while in the past, but I'd rather allow a margin for error in the event of unforeseen circumstances such as one of the two filters failing or me/someone falling ill and me not being able to do a water change.
Hope that helps.
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The water is very hard in our area. I am trying to use water from the Britta water filter going forward http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/Smileys/default/embarrassed.gif which does seem to knock off the hardness a bit.
I have also turned down the lights to about 10 hours a day.
I dont have amonia on my test strips..should I get an amonia test? if so any recommendations or are they all OK?
what is the Betta??
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Our replies overlapped, Rigsby. :) From what I can gather, the ammonia tests are all quite good and easy to read. Liquid-based test kits tend to be considered more accurate than test strip ones generally (although I prefer the test strips for nitrites and nitrates as they're easier to read), but I can't vouch for the ammonia test strip as I've never used it (nor know of anyone on here who's used it).
A betta is the same as a Siamese fighter fish - just another name. :)
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Don't use Brita water!
It swaps the 'hard' minerals for hydrogen ions; pH is an upside down measure of hydrogen ions so Brita water has very low pH. My jug dropped mine to off the bottom of the scale with my pH tester - to below 6.0.
In fact the faq's on Brita's website used to advise against using it for aquariums.
If you want to reduce the hardness of the water RO (reverse osmosis) is the better way. That doesn't swap one thing for another, it removes everything. You wouldn't need to use pure RO, just mix it with your tapwater to get the hardness you want.
And sorry for missing the fact you said you had hard water in your first post :-[
Siamese fighting fish tend to be called bettas these days, it's from the latin name, Betta spendens. The reason is that the term fighting fish seems to have the effect of a certain type of mentality saying - oooh fighting fish, lets get some and get them to fight. Calling them bettas stops these people realising what the fish are.
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Thanks for all the advice...wow, this is getting serious, I've just ordered a reverse osmosis filter for my water changes!
What advice do you haver for setting up my new 55ltr tank, which arrives today?
I'ver read I should I add a 2cm layer of topsoil covered by some sand to give plants something to root to and nutrients. Is that over complicating it for a simple smallish tank?
Any recommendations for new media as my current stones might be compounding my algae problem and not great for my Corys barbells?
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I recommend soil under the substrate, but my observation is that sand on top of the soil is much worse than gravel for growing plants. Sand doesn't allow much water to flow through it, some water flow is needed to bring oxygen to the plant roots. Some people insist sand is necessary for Corydoras, but I haven't seen any difference, provided that the gravel is fine, round, about 2 mm diameter, a lot of aquarium gravel is quite coarse. I have fine gravel over soil and have excellent growth of plants and no problems with barbels of any fish..........
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I've just ordered a reverse osmosis filter for my water changes!
Be aware that if you use 100% RO water, you will have to remineralise it.
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The alternative is to mix RO with tap water to get the desired hardness. And use the same proportions at every water change.
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Re-mineralise it? Is that because the RO strips everything out of the water?
What would be the best ratio to mix with tap water? approx 50%?
In terms of the sand, I have read that using swimming pool filter sand is a good option. Grains are approximately 1mm, its inert and doesnt taint the water and is cheap. Any thoughts?
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I've heard of Americans using pool filter sand. But Richard is one of the plant experts and if he says to use fine gravel, go for that. If you want to use sand you could try my method and get plants that need to be attached to decor (Java fern, anubias, bolbitis, Java moss etc)
Yes, RO removes everything dissolved in the water and there are no fish in the aquarium trade that can survive in RO. You have to have some minerals in the water even with the softest water, and with RO those minerals have to come from special remineralisation salts or from hard tap water.
It is hard to say what % RO to use without knowing just how hard your tap water is. The easiest would be to look up the requirements of the fish you want and the hardness of your tap water then you can work out the right mixture to get the hardness you want.
To find out the fish's requirements look at fishbase (http://www.fishbase.org/search.php) or seriously fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/). Fishbase sometimes has a glitch where the fish profiles don't load properly. If you find this, there are several mirror sites listed at the top of the page, try one of those as they are all in English.
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If you really want to use sand (over soil) don't make it more than a centimetre or so deep, otherwise you might starve your plant roots of oxygen. I've used 3 things :
1. "sharp" sand (lime free, horticultural) which is not sharp in the sense of sharp edged, it means it has "sharp" drainage (a horticultural term) i.e. water runs through it quickly, unlike builder's sand which drains very slowly. Sharp sand was intended for use in potting composts to improve the drainage. The particles are coarse.
2. silver sand, again lime free horticultural. This is much finer and the grains are more uniform. Used it in an effort to be kind to Corydoras, but they don't seem to be bothered which I use and the plants don't grow as well.
3. Horticultural grit, fine grade and again lime free. Larger pieces, smooth grains, smaller than a lot of so-called aquarium gravel. Plants grow very well.
All of these are cheap, a few pounds for a sack of 20 kgs. I know people do use swimming pool filter sand, but I don't know how many of them grow plants well. I'd always go for fine gravel or sharp sand. Don't pay over the odds for aquarium gravel, it's just gravel and often the wrong size of grains.
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Another thing, the business of Corydoras barbel problems probably has more to do with keeping the substrate clean than anything else. Some people like sand because the mulm (fish poo) sits on top of the sand and is easily seen and siphoned off. However, I prefer gravel because the mulm goes down into spaces between the gravel particles and becomes plant fertiliser. That's probably why my plants grow strongly without adding fertiliser. I hardly ever vacuum the bottom of my tanks with gravel or sharp sand, the ones with finer sand need doing regularly.
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OK, thanks Richard. Where would you source your gravel from?
For the topsoil, should I literally dig some out of my garden and put it in my tank? How deep should it be?
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I used garden soil. Others are wary of this in case of possible pollution e.g. by pesticides or weed killers, but unless your garden has been treated recently, I wouldn't worry about it. An alternative is John Innes compost, I suggest Number 1 or Seed type. Never use soilless/multipurpose compost.
The grit is harder to find as most garden centres don't stock it. The best is usually called alpine grit. Beware of J Arthur Bowers Coarse grit which is like the stuff they use on roads! If I were starting all my tanks again, I'd use J Arthur Bowers sharp sand (Horticultural, lime free). Sharp sand is a mix of sand and fine gravel, what happens over time is that the sand particles fall through the larger gravel and you end up with a layer of fine gravel on top. Garden centres are the places to look for all these. Having said all that, as you are talking about a fairly small tank then you might be just as well off getting aquarium gravel, but I'd recommend the finest grade you can get. Whatever you get, don't forget to wash it thoroughly in a bucket before you put it in the tank, to get rid of all the finest material which will cause cloudiness in the water. Keep washing until you get clear water.
About 4 cms of soil topped by a couple of cms of gravel should be about right, it's not critical but don't bury soil under a deep layer of sand if you use it, gravel can be deeper
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Thanks Richard.
Should I prepare the topsoil in any way before putting it in? I just have visions of my tank going very cloudy when I add the water.
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The soil will be well covered by the gravel or sand and shouldn't be disturbed. You need to add water gradually, put a saucer in the tank, then pour water onto the saucer so that it overflows gently over the sides without disturbing the substrate too much. The first inch or two of water you add might be slightly cloudy from any remaining fine stuff in the gravel, if so siphon it off before adding more.
I find it easier to plant up early, when there is very little water in the tank, planting can be tricky if you have to have half your arm in water and the plants often float away as fast as you try to plant them. It's also easier to put plants exactly where you want them before you fill the tank. Some people go on about plants interfering with the ammonia cycle as they will use some of the ammonia themselves, I think this is another case of making a fuss about nothing, it has never given me any problems. Growing plants will also use some of the nitrates that are formed as a result of the ammonia process.
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It's not so much plants interfering as making the results a bit less easy to follow. But as long as any ammonia, added from a bottle or made by fish, drop to and stay at zero that is good.
The problem with plants during fishless cycling was when using the older method where a lot more ammonia was added and some plants couldn't cope with levels that high.