Loads Of Questions

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Offline Sanjo

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Loads of questions
« on: January 01, 2015, 11:54:17 AM »
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Firstly, good morning and a Happy and Healthy New Year to all

Rather than bother you with everything this morning, I have already done an internet search and I think I've sussed out one of my questions (New tank, fishless cycle + cloudy water ie bacteria started) That's good?

1) Now, to start this cycle off I added a scant  teaspoon of ammonia to my 21 litre tank yesterday, filter, pump and lights all working.
I have sent off for a testing kit but it won't be here much before Saturday.  Do I leave it today and add another 1/2 teaspoon tomorrow (bearing in mind that I cannot test the ammonia, nitrite levels yet?

2) Pets at Home say I can have one or two corries for bottom feeders but having read up on them it says they would be better without sharp gravel and I'm not sure if mine constitutes sharp. Grandson gave it to me when he presented us with the tank so I feel I ought to use it. If I add a finer gravel on top it will just sink through.
So could I push most of the original to the back of the tank, where I intend to put in plants and get a finer more rounded gravel (3mm) for the front since I read that gravel should be deeper at the back anyway and that most of the fish "doings" are more likely at the front.

3)  With the one or two corries could I also have a red cherry shrimp? (We will also be getting up to four  Endlers or minnows or similar)

4)  As for plants, again I have been scouring the net and have come up with  plants suitable for beginners like us. So, moss balls, Java fern, Dwarf sagitarria, Ludwiga ripens, Egeria Densa, Green Cabomba. Not all of them of course since it will displace too much water and the tank isn't that big. I just want the fish to be content.

5)  I am not happy with the air pump at the moment, it doesn't produce the "curtain" effect I assumed it would and not much bubble effect. I think because it's a basic pump and maybe not powerful enough.
If I empty out half the tank into a clean bucket, sort out the pump by changing it to a single and put in the plants, then put the water back in would that be OK or will it affect the cloudy bloom that has already started.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get it right first time.   :fishy1:

Best Wishes to everyone
Sandra


Offline Richard W

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2015, 12:05:21 PM »
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Other people will answer some of this, but you should not keep one or two corries, they are extremely lonely in these numbers and should be kept in shoals. The tank is also too small. Don't listen to the shop, corries are quite expensive and they are probably keen to sell you some. Use the community creator here to check what fish are suitable for your tank.

Not sure about the "curtain" effect you want, presumably for decorative effect, in such a small tank it might be disturbing to the fish. Air pumps have little real value in terms of tank and fish health.

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2015, 01:31:47 PM »
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Happy New Year!

Just to expand on Richard's comment. Cories should ideally be kept in numbers of 6 or more, and I think a 21 litre tank is too small to accommodate this many cories (even the pygmy varieties).

If your water is on the hard side and alkaline then Endlers would be a fine choice for a tank that size. You may want to stick to males only as they breed readily.

Red Cherry Shrimp are fantastic additions to the tank, just remember to dechlorinate the water and not use any foods or treatments containing copper as they are extremely sensitive to both. Red Cherry Shrimp are also very social beings and are my favourite addition to my tank. I'd recommend getting six in a tank that size.

You may also want to consider some nerite snails to keep your glass clean. The horned bumblebee variety remain relatively small and are very attractive.

Good luck with your setup!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sanjo

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2015, 02:19:04 PM »
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Thank you Richard and Cod.

I would only be looking at male endlers as space is confined so want the more attractive fish with no chance of breeding.
Thanks again

Offline fishcake76

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2015, 04:03:56 PM »
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Hi Sanjo,

I have a 21 litre tank that I am about to set ip as a shrimpery. I have also had a look at which fish may be suitable. Here are some of the ones i have come up with. I'll be interested to see if any one else can think of reasons why these may not be suitable!!!!

Threadfin rainbow    
Ember tetra   
Galaxy rasbora   
Betta splendens -male
Cherry barb   

All of these are suitable for a tank 30 cm long and a temp of between 20 and 28* C and should be fine in hard water.

Hope that helps!!!!!

FC76

Offline Richard W

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2015, 04:14:23 PM »
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I'm not sure about cherry barbs in a tank that size, they tend not to shoal as they get older and like to each have their own territory.

There are several species of tiny "rasbora" e.g the Mosquito or Chilli rasbora Boraras Brigittae which are an inch or less fully grown and very attractive. Like most tiny fish, they do need to be in a shoal and appreciate good cover to show their best colours. That's what I'd put in a small tank.

See http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/boraras-brigittae/

Offline Sue

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 05:09:54 PM »
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For point 1, the addition of ammonia:

You need to add enough ammonia to get 3.0ppm. If your tank holds 20 litres of water (it will always be less than the stated volume as the substrate, heater, filter etc displace some water) you would need 0.6ml of ammonia solution at 9.5%. A teaspoon, 2.5ml, is way too much I'm afraid.

The level of ammonia must be kept below 8ppm because the wrong species of ammonia eating bacteria grow at that level. And 1ppm ammonia is turned into ~2.5ppm nitrite, and the nitrite eaters are inhibited by nitrite levels over 15ppm. It takes only one addition of ammonia to 6ppm to go above that limit for nitrite. The method here was designed to keep ammonia below 8ppm and nitrite below 15ppm.

Until your test kit arrives, I would remove three quarters of the water from the tank and replace it with new, dechlorinated water - a teaspoonful of ammonia is around 4 times too much. Once you have the test kit, you can check the ammonia level, and either add a bit more to get 3ppm, or do another water change to lower it to 3ppm. It takes around 2 weeks on average to see a drop in ammonia and your test kit should arrive well before that.

Offline Sanjo

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2015, 05:29:51 PM »
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Yikes!!!!
Just checked the link I had saved in favourites. thinking it was from this site and although it is a similar colour background and layout it obviously isn't. I think it was Age of Aquarius.
Anyway, I've just re-read their hints quote

"Raise your temperature to 30-32°C. This will help speed the process, but you do not have to wait until the temperature reaches these levels before you add ammonia. You can add it at any time after the tank is filled. If your tank is going to be planted, you can—and should--add the live plants during the cycle. Unlike fish, plants actually like ammonia as long as its level isn't too high. Lower the temperature to 25-27°C because plants do not like warm water.

Get your ammonia test kit ready! Add some ammonia. Start with only a couple of teaspoons for a small tank around 40 liters (10G),


As my tank will be around 20 litres I halved it and put in a bare teaspoon

Ah well, it will teach me to be more careful and stick to one site.

Is the bacteria rescuable do you think, given I'll be taking most of the water out
Thanks for that Sue

Offline Sue

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 10:42:03 AM »
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As you've only just added the ammonia you won't have grown many bacteria of any species yet. A water change will get the ammonia down to a reasonable level and you can fine tune it once you have the test kit.

The method I've written up (the one in the link in my last post) was devised by a chap on another forum based on the research he's read. At one time, fishless cycling involved adding ammonia to 5ppm, and this was topped up to 5ppm every time the ammonia reading dropped to zero. This is still the method you'll find almost everywhere. But recent research has shown that a properly stocked tank of fish doesn't make anything near 5ppm, so we don't need to cycle using 5ppm.
Adding a lot of ammonia makes so much nitrite that it inhibits the nitrite eaters. Our test kits can't measure as high as 15ppm nitrite, the critical value; test kits just show the highest colour on the chart regardless of how high the level actually is. So we can't know by testing when we have hit that critical value. We have to keep it below 15ppm by limiting the amount of ammonia added.
Research has also shown that the filter bacteria do not die off within hours without food, as used to be thought. They can go for weeks without food, and they go dormant before dying. The longer they are dormant, the longer it takes them to 'wake up' once they have food again. A few days without adding ammonia, as in this method of cycling, will not harm the growth of the bacteria colonies. But other methods on line insist that ammonia must be topped up as soon as it drops.

Offline Sanjo

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 03:34:01 PM »
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Thanks again Sue, a mine of information

We have just got back from Pets at Home having bought the weed.  If I have to empty 3/4 of the tank anyway then I might as well sort out the poorly working pump and place the plants.

I now think I know how the grandson went wrong with buying his fish in his branch of Petsathome.
One young lady in ours told me that I could really have loads of Black Neon tetra in my little tank, up to 20 if I want.
I queried it and eventually she swapped customers and I got the girl with more nous.
No, max of 3 or 4. and not neons until 3 months, where the day before another told me 6 months for safety as they are temperamental.
Anyway, today's another day and we start again.
Thanks for all your help.
Sandra

Offline Sue

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Re: Loads of questions
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2015, 04:27:49 PM »
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Be vary wary of shop worker's advice.
Seriously Fish is one of the best websites to check with. They have more fish in their database than this site; they give the minimum tank size for each species and the water parameters the fish need (pH, hardness). And they also suggest tankmates for each species.

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