Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Mascol on June 24, 2016, 09:13:24 PM
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So I have been keeping fish for a few years, but to my shame only realised quite recently the importance of keeping fish in water that suits them. This explains my lack of success with neon tetras in the past :-\ - Hertfordshire tap water rocks (pH 8.1, KH 14, GH 19)! Yes, it's well hard 8).
As I'm about to upgrade to much larger tank (from a 90 to a 240 L) , and will be a able to stock some additional fish, I decided to do some research on what fish would be happy in my new ultra-hard water tank. Well, the good news is that there are many more fishes out there than you might expect.
Please note this is NOT a complete list of all species suitable for hard/high pH water. It is simply a list of fish that fit the specific requirements for my new tank:
1. No fish bigger than 12 cm
2. Community fish only - you'll find no cichlids here!
3. Suitable for both high pH and high GH (with a couple of borderline exceptions, e.g congo tetra)
4. Suitable for 240 L / 120 cm long tank
5. No livebearers (except platy and wrestling halfbeak - I've enough difficulty keeping my existing platy population under control!)
6. No goldfish
Whilst doing my research I found lots of forum posts of fellow-fishkeepers asking for stocking advice for hard water/high pH aquariums, but not a great many recommendations (the notable exceptions being two articles by Neale Monks on wetwebmedia). I therefore hope that this list is of some use to others.
Most information has been drawn from seriouslyfish, with additions from a few other websites.
My own spreadsheet contains a lot more information then just common and scientific name, but I don't know how to copy/insert a table. If someone can give me some guidance than I'd be more than happy to post the full spreadsheet.
Happy reading :-)
Platy Xiphophorus maculatus
Celebes Rainbowfish Marosatheria ladigesi
McCulloch's rainbowfish Melanotaenia maccullochi
Threadfin rainbowfish Iriatherina werneri
Neon dwarf rainbowfish Melanotaenia praecox
New Guinea rainbowfish Melanotaenia affinis
Lake Kutubu rainbowfish Melanotaenia lacutris
Boesmani rainbowfish Melanotaenia boesemani
Australian rainbowfish Melanotaenia fluviatilis
Forktail blue-eye Pseudomugil furcatus
Neon blue-eye Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis
Popondetta blue-eye Pseudomugil connieae
X-ray tetra Pristella maxillaris
Congo tetra Phenamogrammus interruptus
Black widow tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi
False penguin tetra Thayeria boehlkei
Red - eye tetra Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae
Glass bloodfin tetra Prionobrama filigera
Florida flagfish Jordanella floridae
Odessa barb Pethia padamya
Cherry barb Puntius titteya
Rosy barb Pethia conchonius
Golden barb Barbodes semifasciolatus
Indian glassfish Parambassis ranga
Inlecypris auropurpurea Inlecypris auropurpurea
Emerald dwarf rasbora Celestichthys erythromicron
Red dwarf rasbora Microrasbora rubescens
Asian rummynose Sawbwa resplendens
Wrestling halfbeak Dermogenys pusilla
Zebra danio Brachydanio rerio
Glowlight Danio Danio choprae (Celestichtys choprae)
Pearl danio Brachydanio albolineatus
Inle Loach Petruichthys brevis
Dwarf lake synodontis Synodontis petricolaa
White cloud mountain minnow Tanichthys albonubes
Paradise fish Macropodus operculis
Puntius snyderi Puntius snyderi
Empire gudgeon Hypseleotris compressa
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Wait 'til Littlefish sees this - she'll have to move into a mansion to accommodate more tanks to house this range...
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:rotfl:
Mansion, ha, I wish. ;D
I do have some of the fish on the list, and I'm aware of ones like the Empire Gudgeon and a few of the others.
It just goes to show, whatever water you have, there is a huge range of fish suitable.............and that you'll never have enough space for all the fish you want.
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Absolutely, plenty of interesting fish - even for hard water. I'm having great difficulty deciding which ones I might want. Really must go and see some of these fish in the fin... er flesh :))
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Some of them will look even better when you see them, or they will have an unusual way of moving that may be attractive, so it's always worth having a look. :)
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You can add these to the list too:
Dwarf Puffers
Sparkling Gourami
Croaking Gourami
Bumblebee Goby
White Tipped Tetra
:)
Interestingly I've also found some Bolivian Rams in a shop that have been bred in hard water.
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Goby are so cute. They have lovely faces.
Apparently Rhinogobius zhoui and Rhinogobius duospilus are suitable for hard water. I was looking at the second one (white cheek goby) for the river tank because it's fine in lower temperatures and needs high O2.
:cheers:
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Stiphs also like hard water fish, I have a Orange-fin Stiphodon and a male and 3 females which I never identified
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You can add these to the list too:
Dwarf Puffers
Sparkling Gourami
Croaking Gourami
Bumblebee Goby
White Tipped Tetra
I've always believed that gourami prefer soft water? I currently have sparkling gourami in my softwater tank, and previously have kept honey gourami though they quickly became ill, I hope I'm not about to make the same mistake twice?? :vcross:
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I dunno @Matt but I know kribs do well.
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Using Fishbase as my source:
Trichopsis pumila and T Vitatta (sparkling and croaking gouramis) = 5 - 19 German deg
Trichopsis schalleri = unknown - 12 German deg (that is, they don't know the minimum hardness for this species)
That converts to 90 to 340 ppm and unknown to 215 ppm.
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I too suffer the trials and tribulations of Hertfordshire liquid rock which passes for water here and my sparklers and my croaking gouramis are thriving so you could keep those. Out of the two I think I prefer the croakers, they're much prettier.
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Goby and Stiphodons suitable for hard water - awesome. There are often a few of each family of fish that are suitable for harder water, which is great.
Again, stiph have the most adorable little faces. I don't know what it is about fish of that shape, but they are adorable.
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I like the shape of stiphs :)
Oh one thing about bumblebee gobies we discovered the hard way, they need plenty of room as they're quite territorial and squabble a lot, also males get very aggressive when they're guarding eggs and will actually kill another bumble if they get too close.
Indian Glassfish tend to be happier in dimly lit tanks, due to their large googly eyes no doubt. Beware of artificially coloured fish. I've only found 1 shop that stocks them in their natural form.
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According to seriouslyfish most the fish you mention are just below pH8 and dH 19, so technically not allowed in my list :D It's great to hear they are thriving in Hertfordshire liquid rock - it gIves me hope.
I'd not come across stiphodon before - how cute!
A while ago I saw bumblebee gobies at Chiltern Aquatics and they were very cute too, but I read they prefer slightly brackish water, so left them off my list?
Re Indian glassfish - I have read about the practice injecting them with dye - how horrible. They're not hugely high on my stocking list and definitely a fish I'd like to see in the fin first.
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Are there any corys that work in hard water? I have hard water and kept some Julii (or what the fish shop called Julii) and they did really well until I put some pandas in there at which point ALL the corys just died.
I love corys but don't want my doe-eyed adoration to become something sinister... and cruel... :-\
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Cories as a group are generally considered to be soft water fish but there could be some species that would be OK in harder water.
The simplest thing is to direct you to Seriously Fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/search/corydoras) and for you to look at each species to see if any of them can cope in the hardness of your water.
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If it's any help, I have pepper cory in my temperate tanks, and panda cory in my betta tank.
I found conflicting information across several sites, some said that these fish would be comfortable in very hard water, some sites saying only up to 12oH (my water is 17). I decided to give them a go anyway, they all seem fine and they are all adorable additions to the tanks.
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A while ago I saw bumblebee gobies at Chiltern Aquatics and they were very cute too, but I read they prefer slightly brackish water, so left them off my list?
Re Indian glassfish - I have read about the practice injecting them with dye - how horrible. They're not hugely high on my stocking list and definitely a fish I'd like to see in the fin first.
The brackish water only is a bit of a myth, I read somewhere it was generated when some bumbles were found in brackish water (estuaries and tidal plains) and some shops won't stock them because of it but they are a quite widely distributed species and the same species can be found in fresh and brackish water. Ours actually spawned but the ensuing 'family' massacre that followed in a very short period of time scarred me for life, so if you are going to keep them make sure you have a big enough tank, the floor space being more important than literage. As new fishkeepers we had them in a 55l 60x40x40 tank :-[ we thought it was big enough and learned the hard way it wasn't.
There are some really beautiful species of glassfish but they are hard to find in shops. I found Parambassis ranga to be unsuitable in a tank with smaller fish regardless of the fact they are labelled as peaceful community fish, they don't have those big mouths for nothing. I had to rehome mine.
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Re corys for hard water - from what I read the bronze cory is the most suited to harder water. According to seriously fish it's ok in 6.0-8.0Ph and GH up to 15dH.
Fiona, I'm not sure you're selling bumblebee gobies and Indian glass fish to me .... ;D
It sounds as if my 120 x 40 tank would be big enough for some bumblebee gobies, although I'd like to avoid and massacring of any family.
I definitely don't want any fish that are known to have other fish for lunch. A while ago I had a BN that seemed quite dominant. Soon after getting this pleco there was a small spate of fish death. The BN was returned to the LFS after I'd caught it snacking on the remains of a couple of tankmates :-/
On the interweb I came across a smaller glass fish - Parambassis lala - and the only reason for not putting it on my list was laziness.... It only grows to half the size of P. range, but I understand they do sold under the wrong names sometimes.
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Your tank would be plenty big enough for bumbles, we currently have 3 in a 3ft tank and we're hoping for 3 more, getting them isnt easy though. MA ordered 6 for me but 4 didn't make the import journey, I bought the surviving 2 and they've settled in nicely and have coloured up beautifully, you can see from the list in my footnote what they're currently living with.
As to cories I have salt and peppered in my 200l which wiffle about and pygmy cories in a 55l as well as some in with the puffers et al. My pygmies are breeding like rabbits so I can only assume they're very happy in my water.
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Interesting that your having such success with the pygmy cories, as I know others on here have had them in the past and had them die off suddenly/quickly. Can I ask what you 'do' @Fiona in terms of feeding, temperature.... to keep yours so.... rabbit like?
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Interesting that your having such success with the pygmy cories, as I know others on here have had them in the past and had them die off suddenly/quickly. Can I ask what you 'do' @Fiona in terms of feeding, temperature.... to keep yours so.... rabbit like?
Indeed. Also, @Fiona, I'd be interested to be reminded of exactly how old they are now, and how many of each that you have in each of the 2 tanks that they're in?
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@fcmf and @Matt
Don't forget Sue had pygmy fry as well in her tank.
I have no idea how old the fish were my son bought, he wasnt selective and just bought 10 however they got fished out. They're all still alive in his tank with the puffers, bumbles and otos, they do display mating behaviour at times but its his tank, so the care is up to him and I don't look for eggs. A mature tank, white sand, gravel, planted pebbles and bogwood and more plants (although not heavily planted), temp 25C. When they first got added there was a huge issue with brown algae and detritus worms which the pygmies scoffed. I doubt eggs and fry in this tank would reach maturity because of the puffer patrols. He adds bits of catfish pellets every day which the pygmies and otos eat and live foods every few days. His pygmies are a lot less active than mine. The nitrates in my son's tank are hideous at plus 50 and a source of constant irritation to me.
I actually selected my pygmies so I had 2 I suspected were adult females because of their size and shape by comparison to the rest of the fish in the tank, the rest were little ones about 1cm. They got added to a mature shrimpery which I dose daily with Bacter AE, twice weekly with Beta-Glucans and Mironekuton deep sea minerals, also once a week with Easy Life Ferro for the red plants. Dark substrate 1-2mm width stones, soil substrate. Bogwood planted with java ferns, black pebbles with anubias, rock with bolbitis, java moss clump, vallis, hygrophila, green cabomba, alternanthera rosaefolia and a green grass for the foreground whose name I lost planted in the substrate and floating frogbit. Nitrates are 20ppm, pH 7.5, temp 23-22C, I always add cooler water. I lift the lid so the light isn't too bright. I had problems with detritus worms before I added them which has gone now, they eat what I feed the shrimps plus bloodworms x2 a week. Oh I don't hoover the gravel either, I just top up with water. This tank has a sponge filter.
That's it but if they can live in my son's tank they can live anywhere. Also you don't know how old they are when you buy them, even the shop doesn't know and as they're generally live caught or tank bred I doubt the supplier does either, which is why I bought the differing sizes.
Blimey probably my longest post ever!
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My pygmy cories bred at the same time I was having problems with shrimps. I had two 3 inch diameter spherical plastic plants in the tank at the time and this seems to be where the cories laid their eggs. When I finally had baby shrimps survive in the quarantine tank I put one of the plants in the QT and swapped it over every week with the one left in the 50 litre. I kept finding newly hatched cories and when they were big enough they went into the 50 litre. Though I have to say that the majority of the fry died.
Looking back at this thread (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/invertebrates-shrimps-and-snails/baby-cherry-shrimp/) it was back in August 2013. However, most of the pygmy cories died during 2014 leaving me with the two I still have. I have no idea whether these were two I bought or were hatched in the QT.
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Hi
New to this , my ph is between 7.5-7.6 is this considered high ?
On the colour scale I have 7.6 is the highest in a darkest blue , mine is not quite dark blue but is near to it .
Ally
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It is highish, but hardness is more important than pH. I have a pH almost as high but softish water so I can keep soft water fish better than hard water fish.
Have a look on your water company's website, hardness should be on there somewhere. There are several units they could use, but fishkeeping websites use just two. If you find your hardness, report back with what they say, including units, and we can convert them to the ones fishkeeping sites use.