Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Mervyn on November 29, 2012, 05:20:21 PM
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Hi,
I have ordered the Eheim Pro 3 250 to put into my Juwel 180.
Can someone give me an dummy's guide in making sure that I can transfer the bacteria from the Juwel internal to the Eheim please? Including how long I have to leave my media in the Eheim.
Thanks
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You decided to take the plunge then ;D
I've looked at the manual on Eheim's website, so......
In another thread you say at the moment you have 2 x coarse blue sponges; 2 x fine blue sponges; 1 x green sponge; box cirax. I'll ignore the white pad as it has to be changed too often to grow that many bacteria.
According to Eheim, the pro 3 has eheim mechpro in the bottom basket; substrat pro in the next basket; white fleece; screened cover.
The mechpro is their mechanical filter, and looks like ridged black plastic 'noodles' according to Eheim's website.
Substrat pro is their biological medium, it's small rough balls which are actually sintered glass. I have this in my biopower internal.
The white fleece is filter wool to remove the small bits.
I have no idea if the screened cover is anything other than a plastic cover.
You can afford to lose up to a third of the Juwel media, no more. If necessary, lose the green sponge and one of the coarse blues.
What I personally would do is open the cirax box so you can get the bits out.
Then:
Put a coarse blue sponge in the bottom layer and surround it with mechpro. If you can fit both coarse blue in with room left over for the mechpro, even better. Chop the sponges up if necessary.
Put a fine blue, two if you can manage it, in the second layer, empty the cirax over them then top up with substrat pro.
You need to try and get three blue sponges in if you can't fit all four. If necesary, put half a fine one in each layer.
Run the filter like this for at least a month, preferably six weeks. Then remove the Juwel media a bit at a time with a month between each bit in this order:
Coarse blue, and top up with mechpro
second coarse blue if you squeezed it in, top up with mechpro
fine blue, top up with substrat pro
second fine blue, top up with substrat pro
coarse blue and top up with mechpro
second coarse blue if you squeezed it in, top up with mechpro
You'll never get the cirax out though, just leave it there.
During the swap over, keep the media wet all the time. If necessary, work in a bucket of tank water.
And don't get any more fish for a month. If you get more fish, delay the replacement of the old media a bit to allow more bacteria to grow for the new fish.
If I haven't already mentioned it in another thread, I can tell you how I got the Juwel filter box out of my tank with fish in it.
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I've been thinking, and as a result I've ammended the previous post.
If you remove the sponges in the substrat pro layer first, the substrat pro is the biological medium so it will grow new bacteria best, and you'll still have the sponges in the mechpro layer while they are growing in the SP. Then you'll have a good number of bateria in the SP before you remove the sponges in the mechpro layer.
If you take out the sponges in the MP layer first, it won't be as good at growing bacteria so when you take the sponges out of the SP layer, you won't have grown as many bacteria in the MP.
Does that make sense :-\
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for all that...It is going to take a while then ;) It is more involved and time consuming than I thought!!
But I am looking forward to the end result....Happy Fish and that box in the corner of the Tank to disappear. :P
I would love to know how to take the box out whilst the fish are in ;D
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I would get the external up and running before taking the internal box out, but then I'm always convinced new equipment won't work properly and I like to leave a safety net in place ;D
It is much easier to remove the box in the middle of a water change. You will be doing a lot of sawing which will create a tidal wave so do it when the water level is lower.
You will need a long flexible blade. I used an old kitchen knife, but anything that fits the description will do. The box is held in place (or at least mine was) by 8 silicone blobs, 4 on each side in contact with the glass. Pull the top gently away from the glass and saw through the 2 top blobs on one side, then the 2 top ones on the other. Be every careful that the blade doesn't touch the corner sealant. Once the top blobs are cut, you'll be able to pull the box further out to saw through the bottom ones.
There will be silicone still stuck to the glass. I used a stanley knife blade held almost flat against the glass - carefully - to scrape the remaining silicone off the glass.
Did your tank come with suckers to stick the heater onto the glass? If it didn't you'll need to get something before you take the box out. You used to be able to buy brackets at most shops, but they seem to have vanished, though you can still find them on-line. Most makes are interchangeable.
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Hi Sue,
Thanks. No suckers for the heating tube but had ordered a new heater so I will have the Juwel as a spare!!
If I run two filters at the same time would that not create too much of a current for the fish? or Turbulence??
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It could well do. You've already mentioned the flow from the juwel being a bit strong.
Were you thinking about running both of them permanently or until the external had grown its bacteria?
In the latter case, I would run both for 6 weeks then remove the sponges from the Juwel one by one at monthly intervals till they were all gone. The total number of bacteria will remain the same, they'll just end up spread out more thinly through all the media.
The bacteria would grow faster in the external if you moved at least some of the Juwel media over.
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Hi Sue,
No not permanently. Just until the external has enough bacteria. I will try your suggestion and if the current upset the fish too much I will have to cram the Juwel sponges in the Eheim.
Thanks
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If the flow is OK for the fish, bury one blue sponge in the substrat pro layer. The bacteria will migrate faster if the new media is in physical contact with the old. Wait around 4 weeks, then replace that sponge with more SP. Then I'd wait another month before removing any more Juwel media.
Depending just how much SP there is, you might be able to remove more than one bit of Juwel media at once. So long as you don't take out more than a third of the total media at one go. After 8 weeks, there will be as many bacteria in the SP layer as there will ever be with other media present.
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Thanks Sue
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Well it has been dispatched!! Just be hanging by the front door until I get the delivery! ;D
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and just in time for christmas. Did you say you were going to get a new heater or that you had already orderd one?
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A new heater has been dispatched as well. A TMC V2 200w Digital heater. ;D
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Very nice definetly a good christmas for your fish :D
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Argghhhhhhhhh!!! They sent it ParcelForce Express 24 and it has been at my local depot since 03.50 but of course we all know that ParcelForce do not deliver on Sat unless expressly paid for.
I will have to wait till Monday!!!
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Well the filter just arrived. ;D
But major problem!!! I had not measured anything and it will not fit in the Juwel Cabinet >:(
But I have a master plan!! If I place it down one side...the only way it can be seen in the living room is if someone is sitting in my chair, so that is where it is going....just hope the Eheim is as quiet as people say!!!
Will leave it till the morning,otherwise I would be up all night getting it fitted.
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Well I fitted the Filter today.
A bit of a palaver as the tank is a bit close to the wall but managed ok and the hood fits reasonably well. I may get more hose and fit directly to the sprinkler bar.
Taking the old filter box out of the tank was interesting :P but managed eventually
Considering it is running outside of the cabinet (filter too wide) it is very quiet. Initially,for the first hour or so, strange bubbling noises and gushes,(air) but has settled down now.
The only noise is the water from the sprinkler bar. Can the sprinkler bar be totally immersed? Just in case the wife moans.
I did not get as much of the old media in as I hoped but will do at least a daily water check for the moment.
I was thinking of removing some of the old media towards the end of January would that be ok??
All in all I am very happy with it. ;D
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Awsome glad to here its all set up and working well. eheim are supposed to be one of the quietest around. I did a similar thing i dough a aqua one aquia 2240 with out measuring luckily my shop took it back.
Yes the spray bar can be submerged both of mine are 2-3 inch below the surface.
bubbling noises are completely normal, you can gently rock the filter back and forth to help remove the trapped air a bit quicker.
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Keep a check on your ammonia and nitrite until you are sure they are staying at zero. If you do see either of them, do water changes to keep them under 0.25 till they stay at zero by themselves. It won't be nearly as bad a doing a fish-in cycle from scratch. The slowest part of that is getting the bacteria started. With the old media you've managed to get in, it's just a question of them multiplying to replace the ones in the media you couldn't manage.
The usual quoted time for populating all the new media is 4 to 6 weeks, but as you have the old and new in contact, it should be quicker than that. The 4 to 6 weeks is for when you run the two filters together in the tank and don't transfer media. So 4 weeks from the time your levels stay at zero should be OK. Or err on the side of caution and wait the full 6 weeks. I may have been a bit conservative in my previous instructions ;D
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Thanks Sue....and Don thankyou I think I will submerge the sprinkler bar as the tank is full of thousands of little air bubbles. :P
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Cannot submerge the sprinkler....If I do I get an annoying humming noise!! I can put up with the noise from the sprinkler but I do not like all the bubbles but hate the humming more. >:(
I will take a look to see what I can do tomorrow.
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Hmm, check the spray bar holes cover each one up and see if the noise goes. Had a noise with my jbl spray bar and it turned out thatthe last whole of the spray bar wasnt big enough and the water was causing a whine as it came out. Widened the whole a tiny amount and the noise stopped.
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Thanks Don will do, but when I moved the bar it stopped...the problem I think, is that when I submerse it,because of the length of hose I have attached it with, is a little on the long side. I will have a play about in the morning when the wife is at work ;D
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Errrm....I have a really annoying hum.
It does not appear to come from the filter box itself, but sounds like some sort of resonance (spelling?)maybe from the Aquarium itself?
Interestingly it 98% disappears when I lift the lid flaps?
I cannot have the lid flaps up permanently and neither do I wish to listen to the hum..
I have tried doing all sorts of different things but to no avail.
The only thing that works is having the sprinkler bar out of the water with associated noise,which I do not dislike, and thousands of bubbles which I do not like.
!!
Maybe I am being too fussy
Any suggestions please?
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Solved it ;D I played some more and I realised it had to do with the suckers holding the sprinkler bar on.
I threatened them that I was about to ditch them :P moved the bar..removed suckers replaced etc and the noise disappeared!! result ;D
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Tanks with hums are starnge creatures. The 25 litre with the betta in has a lid consisting of a condensation tray and a sheet of perspex over that (cheap tank, original black lid cracked). Sometimes it hums loudly. The way to stop it is to move the perspex 1/4 inch. I have no idea how this stops the hum as the perspex doesn't touch the filter or heater wires.
The moral of the story is: if you have a hum, try wriggling everything; you'll be surprised at what can work ;D
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Yes that is how I got it sorted....the best way I have found is having the sprinkler bar on a slant...not ideal as I like everything neat, and the end that connects to the crook will not go any lower!
What I really need is a z or s shape connector, so I could connect to the shepherds crook and then drop the sprinkler bar to a lower level.
I found that the hose is just not pliable enough without it kinking.
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Well the new filter is running well and no sign of the haziness I was getting with the Juwel, but to be honest when I swapped filters the haziness had all but disappeared.
Now a question for Eheim owners...how often do you clean your pre-filter out?? Don't want to do unneeded cleaning but I also want the filter to be running on top form.