Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Dylan5084 on September 04, 2015, 09:27:04 PM
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hi im a new fish keeper, ive got a 200 litre fluval tank with fluval 304 external filter and a bubbler.
i currently have 11 guppies, 10 neon tetras, 2 silver 2 black mollies, 2 female swordtail mollies, 4 clown loaches, 4 julii cory catfish, 2 silver dollars, 1 gold nugget plec, 1 ruby shark, 2 dwarf african frogs
3 live plants and some decoration
heres my water test results...
PH 7.5
nitrate 10mg/l
nitrite 0.2mg/l
ammonia 0.7mg/l
phosphate 0.5mg/l
kh 7degrees dh
gh 10 degrees dh
im going to do a 30% water change tomorrow, is there anything i should be worried about with these results?
Thanks Dylan.
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In a cycled tank, both ammonia and nitrite should be zero.
I would do more than 30% when you do the water change as you need to get the ammonia down below 0.25 and 30% will only get it down to 0.5, which is still double the safe-ish level. I know 200 litres is a lot of water, but you need to change at least 75%.
Can I ask, how long have you had the tank, did you cycle it before getting any fish, and how long have you had fish in the tank?
Is your tank the Fluval Roma 200, at 100cm long? I should warn you that the clown loaches will soon outgrow the tank, as will the silver dollars (both need 180cm long tanks and silver dollars are shoaling fish which should be kept in groups of at least 5)
You may also find problems with the frogs as they are very difficult to feed in a tank of greedy fish which eat all the food before the frogs can find it.
The good news is that the rest of your fish are fine, provided the tank is cycled.
What do you mean by swordtail molly, there are fish called swordtails and fish called mollies ???
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ive had the tank 4 weeks now, i didnt really cycle the tank to be honest, we had the tank 1 week with plants in, before we started adding fish, adding a few every 2 or 3 days, got the itchy feet and couldnt wait to have fish :-\
ill do a 75% water change tomorrow, hopefully my fish are ok. they seem fine just now all swimming about happy
the swordtails, must just be swordtails, the girl at dobbies said to her they were swordtailed mollies
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If it were me, (I did a fish-in cycle a while back - never again) I would do large water changes several times a week.
I would be testing every day for Ammonia and Nitrites and whenever either were above 0.25ppm do a large water change.
I would also be using Seachem Prime or Seachem Safe as my tap water conditioner - at the correct dose it neutralises the Ammonia and Nitrites rendering them non-toxic.
This must not be used instead of water changes but as a supplement.
Guppies are inherently weak, due to years of selective breeding so any stress caused by poor water will weaken them further.
All fish will suffer with any Ammonia and/or Nitrites present.
Good luck.
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Shop workers don't know what they are talking about half the time :-\
You are now doing a fish-in cycle, with rather a lot of fish. My advice would be to rehome the clown loaches and silver dollars as they are going to get far too big for your tank and taking them back to the shop will reduce the fish numbers and make things easier for you.
If the fish have been in there for 3 weeks you are well into the cycle. Have you been measuring the ammonia level over those three weeks? It would probably have been a lot higher than it is now, and it is on its way down as three weeks is plenty time to row the ammonia eating bacteria. But I suspect your nitrite is on its way up. I'll give you a link to read here (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,17.0.html). Your ammonia will probably behave itself from now on but it is the nitrite you need to keep under control so you still need to follow those instructions.
Doing a very big water change now will get the nitrite level close to zero; your on-going task is to measure ammonia and nitrite every day and do a water change as soon as they get near 0.25. The target is to stop the level of either going over 0.25. You will find eventually that both go up slower and slower until one day you'll realise that the readings have been zero every day for a week. That is the point the tank will be officially cycled.
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i was using a couple of seachem in tank monitors, until my test kit come. now ive tested the water i know the in tank monitors are pretty crap, cos the ph monitor is 0.5 ph out and the ammonia alert says the tank is fine! this is the first time ive tested the water, ive been getting the shop to test the water but i dont know the results as they were just telling me my water was all good.
so is 0.25ppm the same as 0.25mg/litre? ive just done a 130 litre water change and tested the water after a couple of hours, and ammonia levels are down to about 0.3mg/litre and nitrite down to 0.1mg/litre
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Hi Dylan,
Don't be too disheartened, you're not the first to be given dodgy advice from your local store. You're aiming for ammonia and nitrite to be zero as they are both toxic to fish. Given the predicament you are in I would add a lot of Pure Aquarium Balls to your tank as these are a reliable way of reducing ammonia and nitrite in an uncycled aquarium. I've used them in quarantine tanks successfully and Practical Fishkeeping Magazine swears by them (and those guys know about fish!). I'd also add plants (especially floating varieties) as they use ammonia and nitrite in the tank.
Keep up the water changes and get rid of the those loaches and silver dollars as they are too big for your tank.
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Yes, ppm and mg/l are the same.
I always advise asking the shop for the actual numbers. It unfortunately all too common for them to say that too high values are fine or OK.
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tested the water today, the nitrite levels at 0 now, but my ammonia level is at 0.3, ive done another smaller water change this morning, ill leave it a couple of days and do a large water change again. the water change didnt take nearly as long as i thought it would too which is good
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Your ammonia is above the danger level of 0.25. However......
Since your tank is so big, I'll tell you a better way to judge when a water change is due - but only for ammonia, not nitrite.
Ammonia exists in 2 forms in water, ammonia and ammonium. It's only ammonia that is very toxic, ammonia isn't nearly so bad. Our test kits measure the total amount of both forms combined, but there is a way to calculate how much of that total is in the very toxic form. You need 3 figures and this (http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php) calculator. The three figures are the ammonia reading, the pH and the temperature of the water.
Enter your ammonia reading in 'total ammonia measurement' on the left side. Set salinity to zero. Enter your pH and water temp then click calculate on the right hand side. You want the bottom number, NH3 Concentration.
I have just entered ammonia 0.3, pH 7.5 and I've assumed the temp is 25C. This gives an NH3 concentration of 0.0054. Anything below 0.02 is safe, and you are below that figure.
Keep testing every day and entering the ammonia reading in that calculator. As soon as the NH3 concentration reaches 0.02, you need to do a water change.
But at the same time, monitor the nitrite level. There is no non-toxic form of nitrite. You need to do water changes to keep that down.
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im unsure about my heater, its a fluval one, ive just put the digital thermometer i was using to test the water-change water in the tank, and the temperate is fluctuating a whole degree, up and down between 25.5-26.5 celcius is this ok? or is it bad for the fish?
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One degree is perfectly normal and will be no problem at all. All thermostats will have a difference between when they come on or off, otherwise the heater would be switching on and off every few seconds. Fish can tolerate much large fluctuations. I've lowered all of mine to 21-22 degrees, it saves a lot in electricity and the fish are fine.
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done a 10% change yesterday, and another 50% today, after my result today, im not sure if i got a bit of fish poop in my test water but it looked like my ammonia was about 0.6ppm, so done a 50% water change just incase, will test the water in a few hours, my nitrite level is still 0.
the tank is crystal clear, ive never seen water so clear lol...
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It's quite easy to fluff a water test. One drop too many of one of the compounds etc. ...
If I see a surprising result, or one I'm unsure of, I always do a second test just to be sure.
I make sure I'm ultra careful with the second test to try and eliminate human error.
If the second result backs up the first then I can be satisfied the first was true.
If the second test gives a different reading I'll tend to trust it more due to being more focused as I was doing it.
I have done a third before now, just to be certain. :rotfl:
Have you considered using Prime or Safe to neutralise the toxins whilst the Cycle is still incomplete?
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Your ammonia is creeping up! The level of the toxic part is now 0.018. The highest you can let the ammonia reading get without harming the fish is 1.1 with your test kit (this gives 0.02 toxic ammonia, the highest safe level)
As soon as the ammonia reading gets to 1.0, you need to do a water change. And if you see nitrite at or above 0.25.
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It's quite easy to fluff a water test. One drop too many of one of the compounds etc. ...
If I see a surprising result, or one I'm unsure of, I always do a second test just to be sure.
I make sure I'm ultra careful with the second test to try and eliminate human error.
If the second result backs up the first then I can be satisfied the first was true.
If the second test gives a different reading I'll tend to trust it more due to being more focused as I was doing it.
I have done a third before now, just to be certain. :rotfl:
Have you considered using Prime or Safe to neutralise the toxins whilst the Cycle is still incomplete?
yea i think it may have been human error, but i wanna keep my water changes up anyway, i was unsure about using prime of safe, ive just ordered some seachem prime hopefully its here before the end of the week.
my ammonia is now at 0.5 after a 50% water change, i think ill be doing the same tomorrow :vcross:
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Nice one :)
Fur future reference, Seachem Safe is Seachem Prime but undiluted in powder form. Exactly the same formula otherwise. Works out a lot cheaper.
Having previously lost fish by doing a fish-in cycle, I didn't want anyone else to suffer the same fate.
Keep up the frequent water changes, add the Seachem Prime at every water change and your fish will benefit greatly.
Please let us know how you get on.
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my nitrite level is still 0, but my ammonia level is now at 0.8!! nitrate level is only at id say 0.1-0.2 now??
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Are you sure about the nitrate reading? With my test kit the levels go zero, 5, 10 etc.
Nitrate can only rise once there are nitrite eating bacteria turning nitrite into nitrate. But tap water usually contains some nitrate - UK legislation allows up to 50ppm (mg/l). You need to measure the amount of nitrate in your tap water and subtract that from the tank reading to find out of nitrate is going up. In a cycled tank, nitrate will rise between one water change and the next as the only way to remove it is by water changes.
The fact that your ammonia is going up, albeit slowly, indicates that your tank is not cycled yet. Don't let the ammonia reading get to 1 as with your pH and temp that is the value at which the toxic part gets to danger level.
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Ammonia will rise until there is enough bacteria to 'eat' it - then the Ammonia will be converted to Nitrite.
After a while a Ammonia will drop whilst Nitrite rises. After which time the next kind of bacteria will grow in response to the increase in Nitrites and they will begin to convert the Nitrites to Nitrate.
Your Nitrate reading sounds off. At this stage it probably should be at the same level as your tap water. You can test your tap water to compare.
The Nitrate test is the most inaccurate and the hardest to perform adequately.
Just keep as you're doing - keep doing regular water changes and keep monitoring.
The whole process can sometimes take up to a couple of months, but sometimes a bit quicker.
Just be mindful of keeping the levels as low as you can through frequent water changes, and when your Prime arrives that will alleviate the stress on the fish too.
Be very careful not to overfeed out this will contribute to an increase in Ammonia.
I know from experience it can be a harrowing process with livestock in the tank. It's also hard work, lifting buckets of water. All worth in the end though. ;)
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so ive just done a 210 litre water change, syphoned it down to about 30% filled to with 100 litres, syphoned it back down and filled with another 110 litre, god im getting sick of water changes, i also cleaned my filter.. hopefully the test results reflect this :vcross:
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Unfortunately, all these water changes are necessary with a fish-in cycle.....
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woo hoo, 0 ammonia! am i better to add some colombo bactuur? or does the seachem prime do the same?
my filter maintenance says to replace one of the carbon filters, should i stick to the maintenance schedule?
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... hopefully the test results reflect this :vcross:
So, just for instance, lets say you've removed ALL of the Ammonia present in the tank with the latest water change. The fish will be pooing and expelling Ammonia from their gills and uneaten food rotting down and the Ammonia will climb again.
Have a zero reading now is great as it means your fish aren't currently swimming in toxic water.
However it WILL climb again until the cycle is complete.
Just hang in there, I know all these water changes are a pain but they are necessary.
"colombo bactuur" is supposed to be a quick-start to add bacteria to the aquarium.
Sue can give you the history on these products but there are only two products on the market that have the correct formula to help this process and "colombo bactuur" isn't one of them.
Seachem Prime is mainly used as a water conditioner to remove the Chlorine, Chloramine and other heavy metals from tap water before you add it to the aquarium.
Without a water conditioner your tap water may contain these harmful chemicals that can damage the slime-coat of the fish and kill the beneficial bacteria you are trying so hard to encourage.
The other thing that Seachem Prime does (as well as one or two other products too) is to neutralise the Ammonia and Nitrites into a non-toxic form.
The great thing is that even in their neutralised form they are still adequately feeding the bacterial colonies that will complete the cycle.
my filter maintenance says to replace one of the carbon filters, should i stick to the maintenance schedule?
Carbon is basically useless TBH.
Many feel it's there nowadays merely as a way of getting us to keep shelling out on filter cartridge replacements.
You're better of replacing it with foam, or floss or another container of ceramic media or bio-balls.
Hope all that helps.
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so, i test the water today and it has gone up to 0.5 ammonia!!! my nitrite is 0, nitrate is 0, i tested my tap water for nitrate and it come back 0! phosphate was 1.5.
i dont know if im doing the test wrong for the nitrate, but the small spoon for measuring the powder is pretty crap, i have jewlers scales that i could measure the small amount of powder if i knew the weight to put in to the 10ml of water?
whats causing my ammonia to spike like this? im assuming itll be at 1ppm tomorrow and ill need to do a whole tank flush again! my prime stuff hasnt come yet either, one of the guppies has died but am unsure if its the water or if something had nipped at it cause a chunk of its tail was missing
my fish seem not as happy today, all the guppies are nipping at each other, and 1 of them is swimming in a corner....
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whats causing my ammonia to spike like this? im assuming itll be at 1ppm tomorrow and ill need to do a whole tank flush again!
This is normal. You still don't have enough of the bacteria required to convert the Ammonia to Nitrite.
Fish naturally expel Ammonia in their waste. Decaying, uneaten food is converted to Ammonia.
You are treating your tap water with a conditioner when you do a water change, right? Just checking you're not inadvertantly killing any bacteria you're cultivating.
Unfortunately growing the Ammonia-eating bacteria is the fastest part of the process. It takes a fair bit longer to get the Nitrite-eating bacteria to grow.
I'm afraid, for a good few weeks you're probably going to need to do large water changes daily or every other day.
Something else we haven't mentioned before - do you know anyone locally with an established aquarium?
If you can take a small peice of their filter medium, some foam, borrow an ornament, or even a small handful of gravel (put it in a small bag made from the foot from a pair of ladies tights).
All of these things will carry an amount of the necessary bacteria which, if placed in your tank, would seed your tank with the bacteria and speed up the process.
If you transport anything from the above list, make sure you keep it wet in water from the donor tank before adding to your aquarium.
Of course, you do risk transferring disease, if their tank is carrying anything, so only do this if you trust the fish in the donor tank are healthy.
i tested my tap water for nitrate and it come back 0!
That's very unusual. I find it hard to believe there's 0 Nitrate in your tap water.
I'm not familiar with a kit that uses powder. Mine needs 10 drops of two different compounds, one of which must be shaken vigorously for 30 seconds before adding to 5ml of the subject water. Then the mix needs shaking for 60 seconds!
Lots to get wrong!
my fish seem not as happy today, all the guppies are nipping at each other, and 1 of them is swimming in a corner....
Unfortunately, fish-in cycling is very stressful for your fish (and for the Fishkeeper!) and, it has to be said, deaths are almost an inevitability. :(
Thise that still practice fish-in cycling tend to use a cheap, hardy species before adding the remaining livestock.
Good luck with it all.
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Yea I'm using api tap water conditioner, hopefully the seachem prime comes today or tomorrow, my guppy that was swimming funny has vanished, I can see it anywhere and it's not in any of the decoration, would my other fish have eaten it?? I didn't think I had big enough fish to eat a whole guppy in a night!
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Unlikely the other fish could devour a Guppy in 1 night. Must be hiding somewhere.
I recently lost a Cardinal Tetra, even went so far as buying a replacement to keep the shoal at 12, and it reappeared a few days later. :o
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I got my seachem prime today, so i've done a 70% water change. i take it i can stop worrying about the ammonia level now? but keep up partial water changes every few days/ week?
I found the guppy, it was dead and hiding, i've managed to loose one of my clown loaches down the bath plug, must of been hiding in the decorations when we took them out :'( bloody devastated!
my air pump isn't man enough for the job i want it to do, and not quiet enough for my liking, is there any on the market that shifts enough air to fill a treasure chest and an led strip light thing with air bubbles coming out all the length of it at 10"?
thanks Dylan.
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Yes you still need to keep up with the water changes.
Prime messes with the ammonia tester - don't take the results as necessarily accurate after dosing the tank with Prime.
Quote from Seachem's website
A Nessler based kit will not read ammonia properly if you are using Prime®... it will look "off scale", sort of a muddy brown (incidentally a Nessler kit will not work with any other products similar to Prime®). A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away.
If your ammonia tester turns greener the more ammonia there is, that's a salicylate tester. If it goes shades of brown, that's a Nessler tester.
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Sorry to hear about your losses.
I'm afraid you do still need to keep up with your water changes because otherwise the Ammonia/Nitrite levels can build up to a concentration greater than Prime can neutralise.
You can stop worrying that the Ammonia and/or Nitrites are toxic. :cheers:
If I was in your position now, with Prime added and fresh water in, leave it 48hrs to test again, this should give you an accurate reading for both Ammonia and Nitrite. This will tell you his far things are along with the cycle.
Then change water again and add Prime to the recommended Ammonia-neutralising dosage. And test again 48 hours later and so on. Watch for Nitrite which will indicate the first stage is well under way...
Let us know how you're progressing. Good luck.
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Thanks Sue, must be a salicylate tester, so I can still use it then? What does it mean by take caution? I take it it just means there's more chance of a false reading?
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Yes, you can still use it. In America, the most common way of treating drinking water is with chloramine, while in the UK chloramine is used in some areas but most water companies still use chlorine. Chloramine is ammonia and chlorine joined together. All dechlorinators will split chloramine up into chlorine and ammonia and will detoxify the chlorine bit, leaving ammonia in the water. American companies like Seachem get round this by adding something extra to their dechlorinators to detoxify the ammonia made from the chloramine.
I've never been sure exactly what Seachem means by that caution, but the consensus among users seems to be that if you test straight away after adding it (allowing 20 mins for it to mix thoroughly) you should get an accurate reading, and 48 hours after adding it the reading should be accurate, but between the reading could be a bit inaccurate. But even if you get a positive reading during that 48 hours, any ammonia it detects should be 'detoxified'.
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brilliant, thanks, atleast i can have a couple of days rest from the waterchanges :))
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so, my ruby shark has decided to eat one of my neon tetras... i thought they were meant to be peaceful community fish?? is it possible ive just got a "bad" one? i like them both equally and dont want to get rid of them, but i could exchange the shark...
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Ruby shark, aka rainbow shark, Epalzeorhynchos frenatum
From Seriously Fish (my red highlighting)
A slightly better choice for the community tank than E. bicolor but tankmates must still be chosen with care.
While small specimens tend to hide away much of the time they become increasingly territorial as they grow and can display particularly high levels of aggression towards similar-looking species.
Some individuals may be more belligerent than others and there exist reports of apparent alliances with other species such as Chromobotia macracanthus. We’re unsure if these behavioural differences are indicative of gender but at any rate loaches from the genera Chromobotia, Botia, Syncrossus and Yasuhikotakia do seem to be left in peace by Epalzeorhynchos species whereas congenerics and members of Crossocheilus, Garra and Gyrinocheilus, for example, tend to be attacked constantly. Please note that in terms of the loaches not all may be housed together and proper research is essential.
Other bottom-dwelling fishes including cichlids and most catfish are best avoided as they may too be picked on. For the upper levels choose robust, active, schooling cyprinids. Ideally the Epalzeorhynchos should be the final addition to the tank in order to avoid it claiming ownership of the entire space.
This species probably lives a solitary lifestyle and in nature would probably have only come into contact with others of its own kind infrequently and during the spawning season. These instincts heighten as the fish get older and we therefore recommend it be kept singly in the majority of cases. In a very large tank with lots of cover a cohabitation attempt might be possible but each individual is likely to require a territory with a diameter of at least a metre.
If you want to keep small fish like neons, you need to rehome the ruby shark. But if you want to keep the ruby shark, you need to rehome any fish that it might eat/fight.
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hmm, i really want a shark, is there any sharks that wont eat the neons? are they compatible with xray tetras?
shall i wait till the neons are larger and add back in a baby ruby shark, cos my neons are pretty small at the moment. or will it still eat them once it grows a bit?
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I wouldn't trust any fish with shark in the name with small torpedo shaped fish. You might get away with deeper bodied small fish as they'd be harder to eat because of the shape. The deeper bodied tetras tend to be the more aggressive ones which would cope better due to their nature, but they could pick on other tank mates. Look at the photo in the fish profiles of black phantom tetras to see what I mean about body shape - there are a few tetras that shape.
But xrays are torpedo shaped I'm afraid.
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Would it be beneficial for me to add something like Fluval Cycle 500ml Biological Enhancer? Or is there a better product, or shall I just let it cycle naturally keeping up my water changes.....?
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The best one to use is Tetra Safe Start. But read the instructions on the pack before you buy. I haven't used it myself but I have read that you aren't supposed to use it when there is anything added to the tank to detoxify ammonia. Or not for a certain time after adding the detoxifier - and that includes Prime. Safe Start isn't guantanteed to work as it will have been damaged if it has been stored incorrectly at any point between manufacture and your tank. But it does contain the right bacteria. Other bottled bacteria products contain the right ammonia eaters but not the right nitrite eaters.
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Lots of good advice on this thread, but I honestly cannot recommend Pure Aquarium balls enough in this situation.
PFK rate them very highly: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918 (ftp://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918). They will keep your ammonia and nitrite levels down and are also foolproof as you could throw the whole tub in and you can't overdose.
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The best one to use is Tetra Safe Start. But read the instructions on the pack before you buy. I haven't used it myself but I have read that you aren't supposed to use it when there is anything added to the tank to detoxify ammonia. Or not for a certain time after adding the detoxifier - and that includes Prime.
I use Seachem Prime as my water conditioner at each water change. I also use Tetra Safe Start any time I've added new filter media or new fish into an established tank (after quarantine), and so the two are used in tandem. This is helpful to know, Sue - is it because one counteracts the benefit of the other?
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I think it is because the filter bacteria use ammonia rather than ammonium. Using a dechlorinator which 'detoxifies' ammonia removes the ammonia as a food source and slows the establishment of the ammonia eating bacteria in Safe Start.
Since Seachem won't say what it is in Prime that detoxifies nitrite, we can't know what effect that will have on the nitrite eaters - or the ammonia eaters for that matter.
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Lots of good advice on this thread, but I honestly cannot recommend Pure Aquarium balls enough in this situation.
PFK rate them very highly: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918 (ftp://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918). They will keep your ammonia and nitrite levels down and are also foolproof as you could throw the whole tub in and you can't overdose.
The link isn't working to pfk mate, I've looked at a few reviews looks good, might give it a go!
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Lots of good advice on this thread, but I honestly cannot recommend Pure Aquarium balls enough in this situation.
PFK rate them very highly: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918 (ftp://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918). They will keep your ammonia and nitrite levels down and are also foolproof as you could throw the whole tub in and you can't overdose.
The link isn't working to pfk mate, I've looked at a few reviews looks good, might give it a go!
This link should work: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4918
Looks like an interesting product. I shall read the whole thing later when I have more time.
As this is another of those products that adds beneficial bacteria, you are likely to find issues if using in conjunction with Prime.
As far as I can remember Tetra Safe recommended waiting 24 hours after adding Prime before adding the Safe Start product, so I imagine a similar approach would be sensible when adding the Pure Aquarium balls.
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I know a lot of people swear by this product, but there are a couple of things that worry me in the PFK article.
My best theory is that the process is similar to the immobilisation techniques using polyethylene glycol (or PEG) prepolymers, as used in water sewage treatments. If I’m right then the research behind this method is watertight and the results — at least where treatment of waste water is involved — are well documented and very impressive with captured bacteria that get to work quickly.
The reason it used to thought that the nitrite eaters were Nitrobacter is that this is the one found in sewage treatment where nitrite levels are very high. Later research showed that it is Nitrospira that grows in aquariums, at the much lower nitrite levels found there.
So does Pure Aquarium contain Nitrospira or Nitrobacter?
The winning factor is the omission of any claim that this will start an aquarium cycle. The product is intended as a standalone to existing biological activity, and although it claims to —and by all accounts should — help establish tanks, it’s not intended as a sole developer of filter bacteria.
So it is not intended as a product to 'instantly cycle' a tank.
Having said all that, it is realised that the products that contain the wrong nitrite eaters can help - they remove high levels of nitrite while the correct species grow.
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Good points Sue, but I would never recommend Pure Aquarium Balls to begin the cycling process. They are though very effective at managing ammonia and nitrite when in a pinch. They won PFK product of the year and many people use them for emergency QTs.
Given Dylan's situation I think they would be an effective way of preventing the nitrite and ammonia becoming toxic while the tank cycles. For less than £10 they must be worth a shot!
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... I think they would be an effective way of preventing the nitrite and ammonia becoming toxic while the tank cycles. For less than £10 they must be worth a shot!
They won't stop Ammonia and Nitrite from being toxic, they will only introduce bacteria that will help consume/convert them.
Unless there are enough bacterium, any remaining Ammonia and/or Nitrite left in the water column will still be toxic to fish.
Dylan is using Seachem Prime now which does actually render Ammonia and Nitrite non-toxic.
Prime, or any other similar product, shouldn't be used instead of regular water changes though as you still need to top up the mineral buffers and remove any Nitrate build up.
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So I tested the water and my nitrate level is up to about 20mg/l ammonia is at about 0.8mg/l and nitrite about 0.2 mg/l.
So I've done a 25% water change, I'll check it again tomorrow see where I'm at.
I think I'll leave the aquarium balls just now, if I'm not seeing my nitrate level staying up I'll get them next week maybe.... Atleast I've got the prime in there to detoxify the nitrite and ammonia 8)
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If the nitrate level is increasing, it has to come from somewhere, and unless you are adding a lot of plant fertiliser containing nitrate the only source is from the fish via ammonia and nitrite. In other words, you definitely have some of both bacteria, it is now just a case of waiting till you have the right amount of each of them.
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If the nitrate level is increasing, it has to come from somewhere, and unless you are adding a lot of plant fertiliser containing nitrate the only source is from the fish via ammonia and nitrite. In other words, you definitely have some of both bacteria, it is now just a case of waiting till you have the right amount of each of them.
Yay :cheers:
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So, now it looks like some of my fish have white spot! What's the best way to treat it? I've seen that adding aquarium salt can help, but am a little paranoid about adding it as, well it's fresh water fish.... I see I should up the temperature gradually to 30 Celsius, am I better with medicines which is the best?
Thanks Dylan.
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Here's a really detailed article on Ich (whitespot) which talks about treatment as well as prevention - http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_88/white-spot.htm
Well worth a read for when you have 10 minutes free. Should tell you everything you need to know.
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Most whitespot meds on the market are OK - provided you follow the instructions to the letter. That link explains the parasite's lifecycle - it is important to continue treating after the spots have gone off the fish as they can only be killed in the theront phase and there must be some med in the water when every last one gets to this stage.
However - do you still have the clown loaches? Not only are these fish very prone to whitespot if they are stressed (eg during a fish-in cycle), they are scaleless fish so read the med instructions carefully. Some tell you to use half dose with scaleless fish. I too have loaches so I use half dose and add a couple of extra doses on the end.
You may well find you have to water changes during treatment. On a dose day, do the water change then add the med. On non-dose days, after the water change add enough med to treat the amount of new water; that is add enough to replace the med in the water you just took out.
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so ive done a massive water change and im about to put in the white spot treatment, is it only the carbon i remove from the filter, or is it the polishing pad from beneath the carbon aswell?? ive bought the treament stuff that is ok for clown loaches as well.
im reading that some of my fish like a max of 28 celcius, is it ok to go up to 30? for a week or so to speed the process along?
i seem to have lost one of my clown loaches too... cant have flushed him this time, but he didnt show face while removing the ornaments, switching buckets twice, and putting the ornaments back in, i plugged the bath before pouring the water away too this time so not to loose him down there, im just hoping he stayed in one of the ornaments :-\
Dylan.
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It's only carbon that needs to be removed as that removes the medication. Once treatment has finished, put new carbon in the filter for a few days then throw it away, together with all the med it has adsorbed. Then replace it with plain sponge as you don't need carbon full time. You will lose some of your bacteria but the amount on the carbon won't be a large proportion of the ones you have grown so far.
Fish can take 30 C for a short period, it's living full time at that temp that does the harm. Take it up slowly then bring it back down slowly afterwards. Make a note of the current setting on your heater if the dial doesn't correspond to the actual temp - something that is very common.
Some fish are masters at hiding. It could well turn up again.
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Would it be a good idea to put the pure aquarium balls in place of the carbon once I get rid of the ich?
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Those Pure Aquarium balls aren't a substitute for Carbon.
They are gel balls filled with bacteria. (In the simplest terms)
The gel dissolves and bacteria is released.
As Sue pointed out earlier , it's debatable whether they even contain the correct type of bacteria required for the aquarium environment.
The manufacturer states they aren't to be used to speed up the cycle.
In a tank which is already cycled I don't see the point. The amount of bioload entering the tank dictates the quantity of bacteria which will survive in your tank.
If you add more bacteria, and there's not enough food to sustain it then some bacteria will starve and die.
Others may disagree.
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Simon's right, the aquarium balls are only designed to remove ammonia and nitrite. In a fully cycled aquarium they shouldn't be needed and I wouldn't recommend using them to cycle a tank. But as I've said before they can help in an uncycled tank as this forum testifies http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?106792-Pure-Aquarium-Balls-Cycling-fishless.
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So my clown loach has returned :cheers:
Hopefully this white spot doesn't last too long, what am I best replacing the carbon with? Biofoam?
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That's good news :)
Whitespot takes as long as it takes. Like any disease, it can vary from case to case. Don't stop treatment just because the spots go away because the parasite will still be in the tank.
It depends on the filter, and what form the carbon is in - granules or impregnated on a sponge.
If it's on a sponge, it can be replaced by a plain sponge. Any make, cut down to fit.
If it is a bag/box of granular carbon, replace with either a plain sponge or if the space is big enough, with ceramic noodles or balls.
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its carbon in a bag, the space is quite big, ill add some ceramic noodles once this is all cleared up :))
are they the same as bio rings? do i just add them on top of the polishing pads?
thanks again for all your help and advice everybody, it is much appreciated, i dont think ill be doing a fish in cycle again, oh well, you live n learn :fishy1:
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The ceramic media come in various guises, the most common is like white hula hoops - the snack that is, not the big plastic rings. Another option would be Eheim substrat pro, which is white balls of sintered glass rather than ceramic, but that too is a bio-medium. It is what is inside the filter in my 180 litre tank. Whichever you go for, put it in a mesh bag - the one the carbon is in now would be ideal.
Sponges and ceramic media are usually placed beneath the polishing pads. The pads usually go last in the direction of water flow to remove the really tiny bits that are so small they go through the sponges etc. The only exception to that is with Juwel internal filters where the pads go first.
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Tomorrow is the last day of the first treatment, the fish all look good apart from 1 clown loach, so it's retreatment and a water change tomorrow.
So I'm unsure if I'm feeding them enough.... I feed them flake in the morning, flake and shrimp pellets at dinner time, and a little flake at night, blood worm every 2nd day at dinner time instead of pellets, but they always seem to want more after there finished, begging like dogs, and they know when it's feeding time lol...
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Fish will soon get to know the signs of being fed. All I have to do is get the box holding the food tubs off the shelf above his tank and my betta is there waiting and begging for food. The fish in the main tank know that when I lift the lid flap, it means food and they congregate at the surface in the corner.
It is quite easy to overfeed fish. Feed as much as they can eat in 2 minutes. If there is any food left after that time, feed less next time.
Clown loaches are very prone to whitespot, unfortunately. They come down with it at the least sign of stress, and with yours going through a fish-in cycle, it is not very surprising. Hopefully once the cycle has finished and the water parameters stabilise, they settle down and be fine. Though if I remember correctly, you will need a bigger tank for them before long.......
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So, my bubbler is at less than half performance from 2 weeks ago when it was brand new, it's a fluval q2 one for 180-600 litre tanks, my original bubbler was the same, lasted 2 weeks and was at half what it originally was putting out before I sent it back, I'm using 1 bubbler a strip one about 10 inches long, with 1 hose to it, what am I doing wrong... It mentions back pressure in the instructions, but I had to put the pump full blast to get it to pump bubbles all the way through it.... Am I pushing these pumps too hard? Surely if its man enough for a 600 litre tank it should be capable of this?? It says it can power 7 or 8 stones... It doesn't look like it can power 1 strip bubbler.
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Everything is all good in my tank now, getting 0 readings on ammonia and nitrite I've ditched the strip bubbler for a normal one too.
Thanks for all the help I hope my tank stays this way for a while!
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Good to hear. :cheers:
As long as you're careful when cleaning your filter, only use tank-water and not tap water so you don't inadvertently kill off those bacteria you've worked so hard to cultivate, you should be fine.