Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: New fish on June 25, 2013, 08:49:44 PM
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Hello everyone,
I have been offered a second hand AquaEl Pearl 40 Silver Rectangular Aquarium for around £25 is this a good deal and is it a good starter tank?
Everything seems to work although I am still testing the heater, is it safe to test it all in tap water?
No fish in tank, just testing equipment and leaks!!!!
Any advice will be gratefully received...
Thanks ;D
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Testing with tapwater is fine. There are no fish or filter bacteria to kill with chlorine/chloramine in tapwater. Once testing is over, you just need to add a dechlorinator to the water to cycle the tank.
Your AquaEl aquarium, tell me if I have it right:
40 x 25 x 25cm. That comes out at 25 litres according to the calculator on here, though some shops say it's 30 litres.
According to some shops it has a mini FAN filter, though as it's second hand it could have a different filter if the previous owner changed it. If you do have a fan mini, it is powerful enough for the tank and looks as though it has 'sensible' media (ie it's not got something like a carbon-zeolite cartridge, a very 'unsensible' medium that some small filters have)
If the heater is 25 watt, that's fine.
At 11 watts, the lighting is not very strong. Stick with synthetic plants or low light live plants like java fern or anubias. Both of those grow attached to decor not planted in the gravel/sand on the bottom or the roots will rot.
I've found it on-line selling for between £42 and £60. So £25 isn't too bad, if they'd take £20, even better.
Being a small tank you will be limited as to the fish you can keep. There are no coldwater fish suitable for a tank that size so you will need tropical. You have a few choices with tropical. Don't take any notice of what a shop says will fit. Rather than throw the list at you now, I can let you know later what will fit so you can decide what to get.
Have you read up on fishless cycling? There is a 'how to' thread in the filtration and cycling section. There's also another 'how to' thread on cycling with fish. Read them both to see what's involved, then you can make up your mind.
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Thanks for the quick reply, as far as I'm aware the filter is the one that came with the tank.
The light is 11 watts, i picked up some tetra Aquasafe, thats all I need to take the chlorine out I believe?
I'll look for the fishless cycling thread... :)
It measures 40 x 25 x 30 cm, although that would fill it with water almost to the brim...
I calculated that I could have a maximum of 13 fish, is that right?
The heater is a 50 watt, is that ok?
Lots of questions, lol.. ::)
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No, you can't have 13 fish unless they are very tiny. The trouble with saying 13 fish is that doesn't take into account how big the fish are. Using Thinkfish's calculator, you can have 25cm fish. That means you add up the adult length of fish you want and if it comes to more than 25cm, the tank is overstocked. To fit 13 fish in there, they would all have to be 2cm long when fully grown.
But there's more to stocking than just the size of the fish. You also need to take behaviour into account. Some fish need to be in a group of the same fish; some are fast swimmers so although they would fit they wouldn't have enough swimming room; some fish like some bettas (siamese fighting fish) won't tolerate any other fish so that would be the only fish you could have in there.
Small tanks should be stocked less heavily than big ones. With fewer fish, the water stays more stable, and when the water in a small tank becomes unstable, it happens very quickly and can kill your fish before you notice.
Here is a list of the only fish you can have in that tank. Just one from the list, in the number that the list gives.
Siamese fighting fish (Betta) 1.
Endler's livebearer (Poecilia wingei) 8.
Boraras Brigattae (Mosquito Rasbora or Chili Rasbora). 6
Danio Margaritatus (Celestial Pearl Danio). 6
Hyphessobrycon Amandae (Ember Tetra). 6
Microdevario Kubotai (Green Neon Rasbora). 6
Aplocheilichthys Normani (Norman's Lampeye). 6
Microrasbora Erithromicron (Emerald Dwarf Rasbora). 6
Microrasbora gatesi. 6
Microrasbora kubotai. 6
Microrasbora nana. 6
Microrasbora rubescens. 6
Boraras maculatus (Dwarf rasbora, Dwarf-spotted rasbora, Spotted rasbora, Pygmy rasbora). 6
Boraras merah. 6
Boraras micros. 6
Boraras urophthalmoides (Least rasbora, Exclamation-point rasbora). 6
Mosquito Fish/Gambusia
Aphyosemion striatum (Red-Striped Killifish). 1m 2f
Epiplatys Annulatus (Clown Killifish). 1m 2f
Nothobranchius Rachovii (Bluefin Nothobranch). 1m 2f
List pinched from another site
So one shoal of six OR a trio of the killifish at the end of the list.
Not all these fish are suitable for beginners, you should read up on them first. Take note of what pH and hardness these fish need, and find out what your tapwater is like. You will need a test kit whichever way you cycle the tank, and that will have a pH tester. Your water supplier's website should tell you somewhere what your hardness is. Choose fish that suit your tap water.
Fishless cycling is easier as you don't have to do daily water changes to keep the fish alive.
fishless cyling (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html)
cycling with fish (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html)
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:( It now seems the tank has been in her shed for about 8mths...
This is not good news, the filter will be no good?
Grr, don't have enough room for a bigger tank... >:(
Need to move house... :o
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The filter will be fine so long as you make sure it is clean and not full of dead spiders.
Though I presume you mean more that there will be no live bacteria in it. That would have been the case anyway unless it had been running with fish in it right up to the moment you collected it. That's why I have told you about the two methods of cycling, and why I said it was OK to test for leaks etc with water straight from the tap - I assumed there were no bacteria in the filter that could be killed.
If you decide to do a fish-in cycle, the vast majority of the fish on that list are not suitable. They are almost all too delicate to survive it. If you want to do this method, I would get a betta, nothing else. But even a betta would suffer if ammonia and nitrite are allowed to build up.
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;D Thankyou I was going to buy new media, do you think there's no need?
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New media might be the safest option. Is your filter the FAN one? According to Aquael's website, that just has a sponge so a new one will probably never need replacing.
But have a look just how clean the media is. If it is dirty, can you clean it by washing it in plain tapwater? At this point, tapwater is safe as there are no bacteria in the media that can be killed. But don't use any soap or detergent to clean the media as you'll never get the last traces out. You can use bleach - supermarket basics range bleach, the really cheap stuff, provided it has no perfume, detergent etc added (dilute 1 part bleach to 9 parts water). Or use babies' bottle sterilising solution (diluted as per instructions). Then rinse many times and finally soak in water that has been overdosed with dechlorinator - bleach is chlorine.
I forgot to mention earlier - yes, tetra aquasafe is a dechlorinator.
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I have a Askoll L-35001 filter the media seems to be a similar texture to a scourer is this ok for my tank?
I don't know if its a fan one Sue, and i can't seem to find any info on it..
Thanks again for all the info.... ;D
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I jus though you might have a FAN filter as some shops are selling the AquaEl 40 rectangular with a FAN mini filter as those filters are made by AquaEl. When the original owner got it, it may have come with a different filter or they may have changed it.
I think Askoll filters are sold by Maidenhead Aquatics - you may have a branch near you. They are the only stockists I can find on-line in the UK.
Your filter appears to be this one - manual (http://aquarium.askoll.com/pdf/id591files/pdf/3/en/file.pdf) The Pure In S has the code C35001. According to the manual, it should have 2 sponges, a 'filtration sponge' and a 'carbon sponge'. On the diagram, they look like two cubes, one black, one white. The only thing is it looks like new media only comes as a set with a carbon sponge (coal filter), a plain sponge, and a cartridge containing something to remove nitrate and phosphate. The only thing is, the manual diagrams don't look like the photo on the box of media ???
Does the media you have look anything like this (http://www.aquariumline.com/catalog/askoll-pure-filter-media-p-15027.html?language=en) ?
To be honest, you don't need the carbon sponge, and although the phosphate removing part of the cartridge may work until it is full, nitrate removing media often do not work. I would be inclined to buy an aquarium sponge, any make, and cut it till it fits inside your filter.
And ignore what the manual says about replacing the media. Yes, carbon sponges should be replaced every few weeks but they are not actually needed. And the plain sponges should never be replaced until they fall apart - usually after several years. I've never actually used a phosphate/nitrate removing cartridge, and the manual doesn't even mention them, so I have no idea why they are in the filter media replacement kit.
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Thanks, the local aquatics center had the media required and were extremely helpful, the tank is now clean with everything in except the fish..
The media is a Fluval....
Still looks great though...
Thanks once again... ;D
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the tank is now clean with everything in except the fish..
....and bacteria. Don't forget you'll need to grow some bacteria, either by using fish to provide the ammonia (and doing water changes very frequently to stop the fish getting poisoned) or by adding ammonia solution for several weeks before you get fish (the tank looks boring but it is less hard work)
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Used aquasafe, and find myself looking at the tank, even with no fish, lol
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Wait 'till you start talking to it!! ;D
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The Aquasafe will have removed the chlorine form the water and bound any heavy metals. The tank is ready to grow some bacteria once you've added an ammonia source ;D
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Help, I have found myself looking at bigger tanks.... :o
Is this normal?
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Wait 'till you start talking to it!! ;D
Speaking to an empty would just be wrong..
In the other hand speaking to the bacteria to encourage their growth seems perfectly acceptable :D
I started looking at bigger tanks the day after I set mine up.
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Help, I have found myself looking at bigger tanks.... :o
Is this normal?
It is the main symptom of a well known condition called Multiple Tank Syndrome, or MTS (not to be confused with Malaysian trumpet snails). Bad sufferers have been know to remove furniture from a room to make way for more tanks. After all, who needs to sit down? ;D
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You think you guys have it bad... One of the first things I worried about after we discussed completely upheaving our lives and moving to another city was what to do with my fish! And then that perhaps this is the perfect opportunity to convince my partner I definitely need a bigger tank!
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When you get to your new place, you take charge of arranging the furniture. That way you can make sure you have a space for a big tank ;D
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When you get to your new place, you take charge of arranging the furniture. That way you can make sure you have a space for a big tank ;D
Hehe good plan Sue! I suspect I'll be doing the majority of things like that anyway since I'll be job seeking for a little while (fingers crossed hopefully not too long!)
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Ok. I have just picked up a second hand 126 ltr tank and stand for free, it comes with a heater, filter and old gravel.
The heater works and am about to check the filter, its a bit neglected any advice on cleaning the tank/ filter would be appreciated. Elbow grease is a given, ;) do I throw the gravel? or can it be recycled at all?
Thanks
Paul
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I'd throw away the gravel if the tank was a bit neglected. There could be all sorts in there and gravel isn't very expensive unless you go for something exotic.
Depending on what the media looks like, I'd probably throw that away too. The filter casing can be scruubed clean.
As for the tank itself, if it has limescale (white encrustation) clean that with vinegar or lemon juice but be careful to avoid getting any on the corner sealant. The rinse very thoroughly. If that doesn't work, try a razor blade (they make them for decorating) trying not to scratch the glass.
If you want to sterilise it, use bleach. But the kind that doesn't have perfume or detergent in - look at supermarket basic range bleach. Or use babies' bottle sterilising liquid (Wilkinson's own brand is quite reasonably priced). Then rinse very thoroughly and soak in water overdosed with dechlorinator. Bleach is just a source of chlorine.
Did you set up the small tank? If you did, you could steal up to a third of the media from that to kick start the cycle on the big one.
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I did set up the tank, but I have just done a water change, so I'll leave it and just let nature do the rest.... :D
Thanks for the tip on the gravel...
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How many fish can I keep in a 120ltr tank?
I am thinking of having the following in any numbers...
Pearl Gourami
honey Gourami
Black Ruby Barbs or Tiger barbs
Harlequin Rasbora orChilli Rasbora
Zebra Loaches
Black Phanton Tetras
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First I'd check your tapwater conditions (pH and hardness) and find out whether the fish on your list would be happy in it. The fish profiles on here and the website seriously fish can help with that.
Unless your tank is long rather than tall, give the pearl gouramis a miss. My 125 litre is just 80cm long so I can't keep fish the size of pearls.
Honeys would be fine, I have them. This species can be kept as a m/f pair, unlike other gouramis.
Barbs - I don't know much about black rubies, but tigers can be a problem with fish like gouramis (their feelers tend to get bitten off). They need to be kept in larger shoals than usual to keep the agression withing the shoal.
Rasboras - both would be fine but it depends on how big you want your fish. If you view the tank from across the room you wouldn't see the chilis as they are tiny. Both are peaceful species; chilis tend to come out more in bigger numbers. Note that some shops will label other fish as chilis - I've seen Boraras briggitae (chilis), B merah and B urupthalmoides (sparrow rasboras) all labelled as chilis, but then they do look very similar and have the same requirements.
Zebra loaches need a tank with a footprint of 120 x 30cm. I know the profile on here says 75 cm long, but this site does tend to be a bit conservative. I would rather go with seriously fish. If you can afford them, the dwarf chain loach would fit.
Black phantoms - again I have no experience of these fish.
I would run your stocklist through the community creator if you haven't already. But stop at 80% of what it says you can have; it is rather over-generous.
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Thanks Sue,
After more research I hope that this may be a better community
2 Dwarf Gourami
6 Celestial Danios
6 Black Phantom Tertras
6 Gold Barbs
1 or 2 catfish
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Gold barbs need the water a bit cooler than the other fish, you'd need to keep the tank at the temp where the various prefered ranges overlap. How about cherry barbs instead? Though they may not be the colour you want.
What do you mean by catfish? You would should be OK with a bristlenose plec, just one in a tank your size. But if you mean corydoras of some species, you need a shoal of six or more of the same species.
Otherwise, fine :D
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Ty I will have a look at the cherrys... :D
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its a shame about the dwarf gouramis as they have there own kind of disease as i said is a shame because they are colourful but with them having there own kind of disease it put me off them so i also got honey gouarmis you will like them they are nice, same with neons i wont be getting any of them again because of there own kind of disease, but obviously its up to you if you want the dwarf gouramis, i would imagine they could get better with medicine if any symptoms appeared
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If you read up there are a lot of healthy Dwarf Gouramis as well, I think by us having them in our tanks we are helping keep them alive.. IMO
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It is true about the dwarf gouramis. Always choose from a tank that had no unhealthy looking specimens.
There are some who reckon every dwarf gourami imported form the Far East is already infected by the time it arrives. I wouldn't go that far, but there are a lot of reports of dwarf gouramis being fine for two or three months then going downhill quickly with the symptoms of dwarf gourami iridovirus.
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If you read up there are a lot of healthy Dwarf Gouramis as well, I think by us having them in our tanks we are helping keep them alive.. IMO
ye i agree people should keep them as its harsh if noone buys them as much, but they are just not for me
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I have an old Fluval 3 plus filter, it has a strong flow is this too much for my tank?
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So long as the fish don't look as though they are in a whirlpool, it should be OK.
Is this for the 120 litre tank?
Looking at the Fluval 3 plus manual, it says it has an output of 700 litres per hour and is suitable for tanks up to 130 litres. It is maybe on the edge of not being quite powerful enough for 120 litres. According to the manual the 3+ also has a waterflow adjuster which moves from + to - . That looks like it is a slider switch on the ledge at the top of the main body of the filter just below the outflow nozzle. That should reduce the flow. Have you tried it and found it is still too strong?
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I have set it to the lowest setting the Phantoms seem happy swimming everywhere now as I have also angled it across the tank.. ;D
TY Sue
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One of my new fish (only have 6 at mo) has one bulging eye, I have been back to where it came from, all the fish in the tank it came out of at the shop seem ok, should I be worried?
Thanks
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Hi New Fish,
I'm sorry you have got a problem with one of your fish. It sounds as though it may be a condition called 'popeye'. My betta recently developed just such an eye. It can be caused by many things; injury, such as scraping on a piece of rock or by bacterial infection or problem with your water parameters, for example, high ammonia or nitrates or nitrites.
Another thought strikes me, that you mention in a previous post that the filter you are using has quite a strong flow, possibly that has a bearing on things.
Anyway, I would google popeye in fish, and see if the pictures look anything like what your little fishy has developed. If so, have a read up and decide what you think is the most likely cause in your case.
I am certainly no expert, but I'm sure Sue will reply in the morning, with some good advice :)
I just thought if you were still up and about you might be reassured by some suggestions....good luck!
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When it is just one fish with just one eye affected, the cause is most likely damage or water conditions. Both eyes, and possibly also with dropsy, is more likely to be infection. Since they are new, it is possible the eye was damaged when they were netted in the shop tank.
For injury, water changes, lots of them. For most damage to fish, lots of clean water is the first thing to try, and it usually works.
And for water conditions, again water changes. Can I just check - did you do a fishless cycle on this tank? What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?
Only medicate if things get a lot worse. The trouble with medicating is trying to work out which medication you should be using. With something like popeye there can be several types of infection which could be responsible.
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:-[ I was going to do a fishless cycle but my original tanks was leaking so I ended up putting the fish is the big tank.. :(
Thanks, water change city then.. :)
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I can't seem to get my PH below 7.4 I have a community tank the recommended is 7.0, does this API ph decrease work?
Thanks
Paul
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Don't mess with your pH. It causes more problems than it solves.
Fish that like low pH usually like soft water as well. Adding chemicals to the tank to reduce the pH just increases the mineral content of the water, the opposite of what soft water fish want.
Most pH reducing chemicals only have a temporary effect; the pH soon bounces back to what it was and this constantly changing pH is bad for the fish.
So long as you don't have a high carbonate hardness, things like lots of bogwood or even peat in the filter can help to lower pH, though in these cases it is better to a lot of small water changes so you aren't adding a lot of water with different pH in one go. [ not garden peat as that contains plant fertiliser]
Most fish can live quite happily in water that is the 'wrong' pH. Hardness is actually more important than pH. Few soft water fish can tolerate very hard water, and hard water fish will suffer in very soft water.
Do you know the hardness of your water? It should be somewhere on your water supplier's website.
It is possible to have soft water with high pH - mine is medium soft with a pH of 7.4. This means I can keep soft water fish that prefer a low pH rather than hard water fish that like a high pH.
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Thanks Sue.
After lots of research and checking my fish list has changed my stock will eventually be...
2 Dwarf Gourami, 1 male 1 female*
6 Black Phantom tetra *
6 flame tetra
6 lemon tetra
1 bristlenose pec
*= currently in the tank
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I have a Bristlenose now, put him in the tank yesterday, haven't seen him since he's hiding, lol
I got 8 beautiful Ember tetras in there now as well, they are great tank looking really good now... ;D
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Good choice on the tetras, I have ember tetras too ;D Stunning little fish. If yours are a bit pale with being new, wait till they settle in. They really do live up to their name.
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Yep I wen't to buy Flame Tetras, but couldn't tear myself away from the Ember Tetra's they have great character ;)
I have seen my Bristlenose now he's out and about, didn't realise they were so fast. ;D
Will I get lemon Tetras next!!!!