Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: sjames on January 03, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
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Hi, so I've got water in my tank!
Plants in, started with approx. 30 or so, looking ok to good. One or two seem to be 'adjusting' and not initially thriving, buts its only 5 days or so. Didn't get a huge ammonia spike, did a water change of 50% after 3 days (according to Tropica). Have started the cycle, adding ammonia etc.
My question is this: I have a wide outlet flow, recommended for plant growth. Its about 1/5 along from one end of the tank, pointing down to the far end on an angle; this leaves a small area of water that isn't get moved too much, just as it circulates back around. No problem for the plants, but will this be ok when I get fish?
thanks
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I think I mean a small brackish area....is this ok?
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I think I mean a small brackish area....is this ok?
You mean a small stagnant area, brackish means slightly salty ;)
As long as there is some movement, albeit only a small amount, this should be OK. It's when there is no movement whatsoever that it isn't good. This can occur behind a thick area of planting as the plants screen the water flow, a bit like a thick hedge screening wind.
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Where there is a low flow of water in an area it can lead to the substrate becoming anaerobic (or rather it'll grow anaerobic bacteria in that area). As long as this is only a small area it's unlikely to become a problem. If it happens in enough areas you'll get harmful gas (forget what it's called) which will kill your plants and fish.
The good news for you is that if you went with fine gravel as per one of your earlier posts there should be plenty of gaps for flow in the substrate as a whole (if you went with sand let us know). The really good news is that a few small patches of anaerobic substrate helps the substrate to keep hold of plant nutrients even more.
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@sjames Please don't add ammonia if you have fish in the tank already ! You are starting to do a fish-in cycle and the fish themselves are the source of ammonia. If you try to get anywhere near 3ppm the fish will kark it (@Andys101 did I get that right? :) )
Have a look at Sue's sticky for the full detail
http://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fish-in-cycling-with-fish-how-to-do-it/
Sorry, sorry I just re-read the post - 'them' referred to plants.... Continue as you are, well done !
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@sjames Please don't add ammonia if you have fish in the tank already ! You are starting to do a fish-in cycle and the fish themselves are the source of ammonia. If you try to get anywhere near 3ppm the fish will kark it (@Andys101 did I get that right? :) )
Have a look at Sue's sticky for the full detail
http://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fish-in-cycling-with-fish-how-to-do-it/
@Andy the minion spot on! :rotfl:
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It's fine, folks - it's a fishless cycle being undertaken, judging by this and previous posts. :)
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Thanks for the views and comments, yes Sue stagnant is better (and accurate), it is a small area only and I think will be fine based on the comments.
Don't worry, no fish anywhere near the tank, I am into the fishless cycle.
Tropica suggested a 50% water change after 3 days, which I did, before starting the cycle, so I am only just beginning. I am getting a little tannin from the wood, but just a tiny tinge on the water. Should I avoid any further water change during the cycle, until the end?
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A couple of pics of my weeks work
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The middle one is the latest one.
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I've never done a fishless cycle with plants so I'm not 100% sure. I think it is fine to not do water changes unless the plants start looking a bit iffy.
However, I'm sure I've read somewhere that some plant species don't cope well with 3 ppm ammonia. If you find your plants suffering, I would do a water change and add enough ammonia for just 1 ppm. Once the tank is cycled for that amount increase it to 2 until that is cycled, then increase to 3 ppm. 1 ppm shouldn't harm the plants, and once there enough bacteria to remove 1 ppm the higher levels of ammonia won't be in the tank nearly as long.
I would advise you to monitor your pH as well as ammonia & nitrite. Tannins make the water acidic so a pH drop is possible. The bacteria we want to grow become dormant at low pH. To increase it in case of pH drop, either a water change or use bicarbonate of soda - the latter is for use when water changes alone can't cope.
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Thanks Sue, I will keep an eye on the plants. I thought I researched it was ok, Tropica recommend the water changes on big ammonia spikes, which I haven't had yet.
My PH yesterday was 7.5
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Tropica recommend the water changes on big ammonia spikes, which I haven't had yet.
That sounds like they mean fish-in cycling where you do get spikes - and you have to do water changes for the fish as well as plants.
I would definitely use a lower dose of ammonia initially if the plants start to suffer.
It's your KH that will affect the pH during cycling. I have pH 7.5 but a KH of only 3 to 4. I had a pH crash during cycling which is how I know it can happen. If you have soft water your KH will likely be low, but if you have hard water the KH should be high as well.
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Tropica recommend the water changes on big ammonia spikes, which I haven't had yet.
That sounds like they mean fish-in cycling where you do get spikes - and you have to do water changes for the fish as well as plants.
Someone mentioned silent cycling in a previous thread so I've been reading around that. Basically from what I've read silent cycling is using plants and fish together for a faster cycle.
Rather than describe the whole thing here's a good article I read.
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_silent_cycling.php
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A couple of pics of my weeks work
Tank looks very good - well done on your week's work!
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You have had a very productive week and the tank looks brilliant. Well done. :cheers:
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I can see the image of the tank in four months time in my mind. I think it's going to look stunning. Where's my time machine? I want to see it now! :D
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patience isn't my strong point either. :))
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Thanks for the encouragement. I wanted to leave a 'clear' area, so didn't want the whole tank covered in plants.
Marquis, the silent cycling; this is something Tropica promote, and they have a start up service phone app, which is very helpful. They said after 3 days to add algae eating amano shrimp. I'm doing an ammonia cycle instead. Although I will shorten the cycle as the plants are certainly growing.
I think I have a handle on it. Did a 60% water change yesterday to remove a little of the tannin. I am getting quite quick algae growth, particularly on the gravel and wood.
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Adding amano shrimps is not a good idea if a tank is likely to get ammonia spikes which you mentioned a few posts ago from Tropica's instructions. Shrimps are even more sensitive to ammonia and nitrite than fish.
I presume that Tropica expect their customers to have heavily planted tanks and use the EI method of dosing their tanks, and add CO2. In other words, to be planted tank experts.
Unless you consider yourself to be in that category, I would stick to fishless cycling and use silent cycling for any future tanks.
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thanks Sue, I will.
I think it is why Tropica want such huge water changes and so regularly. I haven't had the large ammonia spikes, but as Ive said I have gained patience. I do have CO2 going in for the plants, lowish dose.
Weirdly I am off in the middle of Feb for 2 weeks, so I might even wait until I get back before my first fish go in - ridiculous, but the room and tank are mesmerising anyway.
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I'd be inclined to wait till you're back to get fish too. You do need to be able to monitor the tank, just watching the fish will show if something is wrong and needs testing. When you get back just add 3 ppm ammonia and test the following day, that'll show if it's safe to get fish or if you need to wait a bit longer.