Fish In After Cycle And Low GH And KH

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Offline newnorge

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Fish in after cycle and low GH and KH
« on: June 25, 2014, 07:01:06 AM »
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Hello all,
First post and new to the "sport".  I just managed to fishless cycle my 125 Rio for the kids using the new method.  In the process I started to have a pH crash but caught it in time.  We have very low kH and gH here and pH is 7.0 out of the tap rested for 24 hrs.  To stop the crash I dosed with Baking Soda\Natron over here in Norway. and got pH up to 7.5 and kH up 6 from 2. The cycle finished 4 days later. 

So final parameters last night-NO2 0, NH3+-0, pH 7.5, kH 4 and NO3- is 50.  I haven't done the large PWC yet. 
My question is we are going on holiday for 10 days away starting Sunday night.  Is it better to lightly stock (5 Dwarf Rainbow fish) and use a bottled treatment to stabilize the kH and pH issue. I will eventually try crushed coral but I think it would not react fast enough to help this early and it might crash while we are away.  Alternatively could we use an automatic feeder and would a few fish flakes be enough to keep it going?  I hate to have to start all over on my cycle due to unfortunate timing.  Lastly, has anyone used dolomite (crushed or otherwise) to bring up kH and GH as it is CaMgCO3

Cheers,

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish in after cycle and low GH and KH
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2014, 11:06:32 AM »
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Hi and welcome  :wave:  I don't think we have any other members in Norway!

Well done on the fishless cycle. I too had a pH crash during one due to low KH so I know what it's like - went from 7.5 to off the bottom of the scale (ie below 6.0)

As you are aware, you can't use baking soda with fish because of the sodium content. I have heard of dolomite or aragonite being used to harden water, either chips or sand. I think those who have Rift lake cichlids use it as those fish need very hard water.

As for your holiday, there is a conflict. The idea of fishless cycling is that you grow enough bacteria for a tankful of fish so it seems wasteful to get only a few. But if you got a tankful just before going away, you won't be able to keep an eye on it.

There is one option, but you may not like it. Dose up the tank with baking soda, add a 3ppm dose of ammonia and wait till you get back to buy fish. If someone would go in every 3 days and add the amount of ammonia you tell them for 1ppm ammonia, that would keep the tank cycled till you get back. If there is no-one to dose it, you'd just need to make sure the bacteria were OK by adding 3ppm ammonia on your return, though they might have gone dormant and you'd have to wait till they woke up again before getting fish. This is why I say you might not like this option  :-\
There is another advantage to doing it this way. It is not unknown for new fish to die. Some of them will be weakened by the treatment that have received since being shipped from the fish farms. I would be very wary about getting new fish just before a holiday because if one were to die the day after you left, that's 9 days for the body to decompose and foul the water. You could be lucky and have all of them survive, but I wouldn't risk it.

Offline ColinB

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Re: Fish in after cycle and low GH and KH
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2014, 01:11:42 PM »
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Hello, and welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place for lots of good advice here.

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Offline newnorge

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Re: Fish in after cycle and low GH and KH
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2014, 09:32:01 PM »
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Thanks for the comments everyone.  Main reason I didn't want to go with a full stocking of fish was I thought you were not supposed to but rather introduce groups say once a week.  The tank is for my children (now my hobby) and I wanted to do a fishless to teach them how to do it, how to wait and try to be a bit more ethical.

So we have a thriving planted tank with a fair few snails at the moment. Final stocking will be mixed rainbow fish, platys, chain loach if I can get one, cardinal and black phantom tetras, and maybe some raspboras or danios.

Went to the LFS tonight but the main fish expert was not there.  I picked up some products that are designed for Norwegian water as it seems the low GH and KH are a big problem. They are NORAQ and the GH-Salt and pH\KH+ in theory they wont dump as much sodium (or any?) as the baking soda route and can be used fish in. I will talk to my LFG later this week.

So plan is to dose to keep KH and GH up and then dose with ammonia before we leave. hopefully I can get someone to come in a couple of time a dose the ammonia again. After we get back I will try more natural remedies, such as crushed coral and dolomite.
 
I also bought an automatic feeder for the Rio. Does anyone think that using the fish flakes as source ammonia would keep the bateria going and I wouldnt need to dose ammonia? I started the cycle that way and it got going before I could find a source of ammonia in Norway.  It worked but was pretty temperamental.


Offline Sue

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Re: Fish in after cycle and low GH and KH
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 10:16:44 AM »
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The problem with fish food is that it will go off and make a nasty mess on the bottom of the tank. It is not really much good for fishless cycling.

The advantage with fishless is that you grow enough bacteria to support a tank full of fish before you add any. It's just particularly sensitive species that need to wait - neon tetras are known to do badly in tanks under 6 months old, for example. It's fish-in cycling where you have to go slowly. With that, you get a few fish, wait for the bacteria to grow (doing water changes to keep the fish safe), get a few more fish, wait for the bacteria to multiply, get a few more fish etc.

Salts designed for fish tanks will be fine. In the UK lots of places have very hard water so these salts are not as common as in Norway, but people who want to use RO (reverse osmosis) water to remove the hardness so they can keep soft water fish have to add remineralisation salts - and in those areas with very soft water. It sounds as though your shops are well stocked with this type of product.
But a word of caution - if Norwegian shops are anything like British shops, and US shops from what I read, they give a lot of false information. British shops do not believe in fishless cycling, preferring to sell bottled bacteria. And they will tell you any fish will be perfect in your tank in order to make a sale. Always research a fish species before buying just in case the shop worker gives inaccurate information.


And another note: you say you want a chain loach, does that mean just one? Because these fish are shoaling fish and you need at least four, preferably more. The problem with them, in this country at at least, is that they are very expensive.

Tags: Cycle GH and KH 
 


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