Author Topic: Choosing fish and shrimps (Read 20684 times) 43 replies

Marcus_F · « **on:** October 17, 2019, 12:53:47 PM »

I've been looking at so many combinations of fish for my hard water tank, but I'm really conscious of Algae growth so have been thinking shrimps. Never had them before and sound interesting to own but most fish I add to the community creator are likely to see my shrimp and think mmmm lunch.

Am I being over paranoid about algae and really shrimps are not required? I really like the idea of having a natural cleaner.

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2019, 01:03:23 PM »

There many types of algae, and most fish or shrimps will only eat one or two types. And there are some algae species that nothing will eat. All tanks will have some algae, it is normal. It's when it gets out of control that it becomes a problem. The best way to deal with algae is by stopping it taking over.
Algae gets out of control when three things are out of balance - light, plant fertiliser and CO2. Light means both the duration the lights are on, and the spectrum. For example, lights with a lot of blue will encourage algae to grow.
How long are the lights on for, and do the tubes give a Kelvin rating?
Are there any live plants in the tank? If there are, do you use fertiliser - what brand and how much - and do you use CO2, either gas or one of the so-called liquid carbons?

Sue · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2019, 01:07:44 PM »

Having said all that, look at nerite snails

They don't eat all types of algae, but they do eat some.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2019, 09:53:36 AM »

Hi Marcus,

It's no bad thing to be wary of algae growth. Better to be prepared. I'd like to add one more item to Sue's list and that is organic waste that develops on the substrate - gravel, sand, etc. This organic waste (detritus) can be faeces from the fish and uneaten food, for example. Not only can algae grow directly on it but, as it breaks down naturally, it dissolves in the tank water. Not good. Use a syphon or gravel cleaner to keep this waste to a minimum. When doing so, try to just clean only the surface of the gravel/substrate. Try not to churn up the substrate.

JPC

Sue · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2019, 10:59:45 AM »

I agree. All that detritus breaks down to make CO2, and other plant nutrients, so even if these are not added from an outside source they can still build up.

Marcus_F · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2019, 12:24:39 PM »

Thanks all,

The tank is new so light at the moment is on for just 6hrs a day and it's the Fluval AquaSky LED 16w with 42 LED's and has a rating of 1,100 Lumens. Not sure on the Kelvin rating, it's just on the app's sunrise, daytime, sunset, night time program.

I do need to do a little research to work out if I need to adjust the red/white/blue LED's to assist the live plants. I'm trying to go for a fairly fully planted tank but it's all early stages.

I've not used any fertiliser yet, I'm waiting to see how the Caribsea Eco-Complete substrate works out. No CO2 yet, was going to try and avoid that.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2019, 09:15:52 PM »

Hi Marcus,

One of the most important things to keep in mind is that the intensity and duration of the lighting dictates the nutrient requirement for the plants. So, that means carbon from either carbon dioxide or liquid carbon products. Then, the macronutrients - nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Then the micronutrients - iron, magnesium, etc.

To keep things simple, start with the easy plants. Take a look at the Tropica and AquaFleur web sites which, if I remember rightly, put plants into several categories. Going back to nutrients, I see that Eco-Complete Planted has a detailed list of the nutrients that it contains.

What I am beginning to appreciate about planted tanks is that if you look after the plants and they are growing well, they will starve any algae spores thus preventing algae growth. Perhaps there is one exception and that is something called blue-green algae (BGA), which is not an algae at all despite its name. It is a form of bacteria. That can wait for another day.

That's enough science for the moment. Regarding fertilizers, I have recently started using TNC products. You will find them here:

https://thenutrientcompany.com

JPC

Littlefish · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2019, 08:29:56 AM »

What sort of combinations of fish are you looking at?
I have amano shrimp in several of my tanks, along with some of the smaller species (red cherry/blue dream/bee shrimp) in 2 other tanks.
If you have some relatively big omnivores/carnivorous fish, or slightly aggressive fish, certainly steer clear of introducing shrimp, especially the smaller ones. I wouldn't put anything else at all in my tiger barb tank, for example.
On the other hand, my female amanos are big girls, and it would take quite a large mouth to make a meal of them. They are awesome characters, and regularly run over to an algae wafer and steal it from the fish already feeding on it, climb up a plant and spend the rest of the evening working their way through something I thought would be too big for them to carry. The smaller males aren't quite so cheeky.
I don't tend to have them as a clean up crew, to deal with algae. I think my first purchases of amanos was for that reason, but since then I have found them so fascinating, and such a great addition to a tank that I can't imagine having a community tank without them.

Marcus_F · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2019, 12:49:09 PM »

Thanks for the replies, I'll try answer the questions posed.

The plants in the tank are all Tropica and all under the Easy section. Early days but most look to be getting bigger. I guess in a two week tank that's a small positive.

I've had experience with blue green algae in the small tank. Still got trace amount and being very cautious in transferring the fish to the new tank from it. It's also the reason I've not used the media in that tank to help cycle the new one, could be over cautious but don't want any cross contamination with it being bacteria.

So liquid fertilisers, really needed in addition to decent substrate and do they affect the water conditions in any way?

The fish on my list has moved around so much but fairly confident in saying we will have Dwarf Rainbowfish, Rosy Tetra, Cherry Barb, Bloodfin tetra and penguin tetra. Most seem ok with shrimp but for some colour we were hoping for Dwarf Gourami and they come up as potential to attach Shrimp.

I guess I could add them last once the shrimp have gotten bigger (assume they grow)? They will then be too big to eat

Sue · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2019, 01:03:39 PM »

Avoid dwarf gourami. Most of the ones imported from the Far East are infected with an incurable disease and they commonly die shortly after purchase. If you can find some bred by a local breeder, that's a different matter but I wouldn't risk any bought form a shop.
Another point to consider is that some of the fish on your list (rainbowfish, bloodfin tetra) are active fish which would stress a sedate fish like gouramis.
And bloodfin and penguin tetras would nip the fins of fish like gouramis unless they are in a group of at least 10 each. That may be more than you want of each species.

Marcus_F · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2019, 01:21:12 PM »

Thanks Sue, I was after some colour and the Dwarf Gourami was suggested to us by our local maindenhead aquatic centre. Many of the fish we have on our list have a base colour of silver.

Just need a space of something but avoiding live bearers really as I don't want a tank full. Shame as they seem to have the colour.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2019, 07:28:56 PM »

You should find most of the livebearer on sale are males only, the colourful fish of these species are the males. They are very easy to sex and commonly juat males are sold to avoid the problems of them taking over the tank as you have described. There are 2 (useful) types of liquid fertilisers. One is the micros only type, the other the macros and micros (or complete) fertilisers.

Complete fertilisers contain nitrates so they will increase nitrates in the tank, it is certainly possible to just use a micro only fertiliser. I'd recommend JBL Ferropol, available commonly from Maidenhead Aquatics, which seems to be your local

. I would definately advise using these as your soils will quickly become devoid of nutrients if not. Also many aquatic plants prefer to take their nutrients from the water rather than the soil. Only those with very extensive root systems covering a large amount of the tank area will be heavy root feeders. For more detail on the topic of fertilisation, see: http://scapeeasy.co.uk/fertilisation.htm

jaypeecee · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2019, 02:32:26 PM »

Quote from: Marcus_F on October 18, 2019, 12:24:39 PM

Thanks all,

The tank is new so light at the moment is on for just 6hrs a day and it's the Fluval AquaSky LED 16w with 42 LED's and has a rating of 1,100 Lumens. Not sure on the Kelvin rating, it's just on the app's sunrise, daytime, sunset, night time program.

I do need to do a little research to work out if I need to adjust the red/white/blue LED's to assist the live plants. I'm trying to go for a fairly fully planted tank but it's all early stages.

I've not used any fertiliser yet, I'm waiting to see how the Caribsea Eco-Complete substrate works out. No CO2 yet, was going to try and avoid that.

Hi Marcus,

Plant lighting can get complex so I'll keep things simple. 1100 Lumens is bright lighting - as perceived by the human eye. FYI, the light that I have over my community tank is 1032 Lumens (at maximum brightness). So I know what that looks like. You will need to remind me of your tank dimensions. I think you're wise to stick to 6 hours a day lighting ON (known as the photoperiod). I know very little about the Fluval AquaSky. I don't think they publish the actual light spectrum for this product. Ideally, we need to know the actual wavelengths of the red and blue LEDs. Also, is it dimmable? Almost certainly, the light will be too bright on maximum setting.

Your plants need a source of carbon and, I agree, you are wise to steer away from CO2 at the moment. Arguably, carbon is the most important nutrient. So, you have a choice of liquid carbon products. There are plenty to choose from. @Matt uses liquid carbon, if I remember rightly so you could ask him.

JPC

Matt · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2019, 02:44:22 PM »

The opposite actually! Liquid carbon is a very dangerous and harmful chemical which should be avoided where possible. I do admittedly use it in once per week at water change time just at the normal recommended level. This is a time of significant change in the aquarium and liquid carbon is useful here to prevent algae getting a hold.

Liquid carbon does not provide and my true carbon dioxide to the plants, it stunts their growth and is minimum 15 times less effective than pressurised co2... why bother... some more info here:

https://www.jbl.de/?lang=en&mod=blog&func=detail&id=123

Marcus_F · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2019, 03:08:27 PM »

The tank dimensions are 55cm x 55cm cube with a height of 65cm

I will admit the plant and nutrients is baffling and so far I've planted and hoped. There is way too much contradictory information which makes the internet and painful and often useless source of info.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2019, 06:52:58 PM »

Quote from: Matt on October 23, 2019, 02:44:22 PM

Liquid carbon is a very dangerous and harmful chemical which should be avoided where possible.

Hi Matt,

If liquid carbon is used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, I don't believe that you need to have any concerns. In its undiluted form, glutaraldehyde has to be used with great care. My wife used it for sterilizing hospital equipment when she was a nurse. But she compares it with household bleach, which is dangerous if used improperly. As for the JBL link, I treat that with a degree of caution. JBL don't want to lose customers who use their CO2 equipment - people like me.

If you are not a liquid carbon user, are you a CO2 user?

JPC

jaypeecee · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2019, 07:09:19 PM »

Quote from: Marcus_F on October 23, 2019, 03:08:27 PM

The tank dimensions are 55cm x 55cm cube with a height of 65cm

I will admit the plant and nutrients is baffling and so far I've planted and hoped. There is way too much contradictory information which makes the internet and painful and often useless source of info.

Hi Marcus,

Based on your tank dimensions, you have a brightly lit tank. I asked about your lighting - specifically, is it dimmable? And you will need a supply of carbon - whichever route you choose to follow.

You are entirely correct about the internet. There is no end of contradictory information. So, you have to decide who you can trust. Only you can make that decision.

JPC

Marcus_F · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2019, 07:31:38 PM »

Yep fully dimmable LED light controlled by my iPhone.

At the moment I’ve added substrate, water, Tropica plants and fish. I’m two weeks in and see 3 plants doing wonders. Another one near the heater is browning on the heater side but it’s a biggish plant. One which is split around the tank doesn’t appear to be doing that well.

Java moss is as it was two weeks ago I think when it was added to the wood.

No CO2, no fertiliser just fish food at the moment.

Matt · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2019, 07:32:29 PM »

Oh dear, I'm about to be contradictory. I don't use co2 but rely on naturally available co2 dissolves in the water. I have had great success using this method as described on my site www.scapeeasy.co.uk

The link I posted on gluteraldehyde was sent to me by Juris the famous German aquascaper who felt it summed up his experiences with the product well. I have also lost a lot of fish whilst using liquid co2 at less than the recommended dose daily. When I stopped the losses stopped. I repeated this not quite believing it. The same happened again.

As such im afraid i have to disagree that a source of supplemental carbon is needed ... it will be the limiting factor to plant growth if non is added. This is not a problem, we just need to balance this out with low lighting and reduced fertilisation. This leads to a slow growing low maintnenace aquarium (but NOT to poor plant health as many would have you believe).

The best thing to do given the wealth of contradictory information in the internet is to follow the approach from one person and only that approach as you can be sure that the differnet component factors are balanced effectively in this approach, its when we mix approaches that we encounter problems.

Matt · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2019, 07:34:04 PM »

Marcus, your plants will need to adapt from emergent growth (above water, as they are grown this way in the nursery) to submerged growth. Look out for fresh new growth in a couolw of weeks and don't worry if the rest of the plant dies off in the meantime, just remove any decaying material. If you have no fresh growth after 2 weeks this is when you might want to worry about the future of the plant.

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Choosing Fish And Shrimps

Choosing Fish And Shrimps

Author Topic: Choosing fish and shrimps (Read 20684 times) 43 replies

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