Galaxy Rasbora With German Rams

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Offline MendelJ

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Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« on: July 12, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »
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Hello Everyone,

I’m setting up my very first tank 😃 and wondered what the compatibility of galaxy Rasbora and German rams would be?

I originally wanted to focus on a shoal of ca 10 Galaxy Rasbora and a shoal of 10 Green kubotai Rasbora then add in some small loach, Corydoras and other appropriate fish to complement the two shoals. However my partner really loves the look of the German Rams (I can’t blame him!) so I am keen to explore options.

Any experience you could share is much appreciated!

My tank is 120cm long, 250 litres with medium/heavy planting.


Thank you 😊
Joanna

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2019, 08:47:44 PM »
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Hi, welcome to the forum  :wave:

That's a nice big tank for starting with  :)


Before discussing any fish, you need to find out how hard your water is. Your hardness (also called general hardness) should be somewhere on your water company's website. Look for a number and the unit rather than vague words. The unit is important as they could use any of half a dozen units (UK water companies often use mg/l calcium, for example)

The reason I ask is because there are fish that need soft water, fish that need hard water and fish that are quite happy in the middle.
German rams need soft water. So do Microdevario kubotai (the green kubotia rasboras). Galaxy rasboras (now called celestial pearl danios) can live in water from soft to quite hard. Corydoras are also soft water fish.
So all the fish you name are happy in or need soft water.

The difficult fish is the rams, simply because they need warmer water than most fish can cope with so they do restrict the other fish you can keep with them. Just about all cories need water cooler than rams, for example.
You would be able to set up a nice community if you could persuade your partner to like another species  :) If you want a dwarf cichlid, there are plenty of species to choose from - Bolivian rams (which admittedly are less colourful than rams), Apistogrammas, Nannacaras etc.




One comment - it is not a good idea to keep loaches and cories in the same tank. It would be best if you chose one or the other rather than both.



What do you have on the bottom of the tank? Both cories and loaches, being bottom dwellers, need sand. So do rams and Bolivian rams......


Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2019, 09:02:52 PM »
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Hi Joanna,

Although I keep Galaxy Rasboras (Celestial Pearl Danios) and German Blue Rams (GBRs), I have them in separate tanks. As this is your very first tank, I would advise you to delay the GBRs for a later date. They are not a good choice if you are new to fishkeeping. Have you cycled the tank to establish the biological filter? A few more details would also be useful about the planting. Once we have some basic information, we can go from there. It will be worth it.

JPC

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2019, 09:25:35 PM »
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Temperature-wise, “Galaxy Rasboras” and Blue Rams are incompatible. Blue Rams really should be kept in the 80s which is too high for a lot of fish. They will seriously restrict your choices for tankmates.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 09:30:40 PM »
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Hi there, and welcome to the forum.  :wave:

That's a nice big tank.  :)

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 09:26:30 AM »
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Hi Sue,

Thanks for your quick response and for welcoming me to the community! I am super excited to be starting this journey!

The bottom of the tank is plant soil covered with black sand.
I believe the hardness is borderline hard...though I’m not sure of a number so will go investigate.

I think a look into other, more appropriate dwarf cichlids is a good path to take, so thanks for your suggestions for other avenues :) I had heard that dwarf cichlids might see small fish as foods so glad you think they can be community compatible.

Why are loaches and corys not good together? Is it competition in the same area?

Thanks for your help!
Joanna


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 12:33:27 PM »
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Loaches and cories occupy the same part of the tank (the bottom) but loaches are territorial while cories are the most un-territorial fish out there. They never learn to respect another fish's territory and can suffer as a consequence.

We can talk about fish once we have your hardness numbers. In the meantime, do you have a test kit? A lot of cichlids are sensitive to nitrate so it's good to know how much your tap water contains. pH is also important to fish, though not as important as hardness. pH often changes after water has been allowed to stand, so test the pH of a freshly run sample of tap water and a glass of tap water that's been allowed to stand for 24 hours.

Dwarf cichlids are those that grow up to 3 inches (7.5 cm) so they will leave the smaller fish alone. It's the bigger cichlids that will eat them. I've kept ember tetras and Microdevario kubotai with apistogrammas with no problems.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 02:43:01 PM »
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Welcome to the forum, Joanna.  :wave:


Offline MendelJ

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 02:31:00 PM »
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Hello everyone,

Sorry it’s taken me a while to get back to the forum and thank you for the welcome ☺️

I’ve found out that the water is 11 degrees German so fairly hard...might need to rethink my species selection. However I did have a local fish shop say that their stock would be acclimated to the water hardness so that would open up more species to me...is this wrong?

Anyway, the bottom of the tank is plant soil covered with black sand and the hardscape is bog wood. Tank is cycled and my home test for pH, ammonia and nitrites gives results of 7, 0 and 0 respectively for the last couple of weeks so ready to get a couple of fish in!

So after your advice I am thinking:
Celestial Pearl Danios (10), Honey Gourami (2), False Julii Corydoras (6) and Bolivian Ram (2) plus some Amano and Diamond Blue shrimp.

From everyone’s experience, are these appropriate community tank mates and good numbers for them to be happy? Thinking CPD in first with the shrimp so they can all grow up before the bigger tank mates arrive.

Thanks everyone for all the tips!
Picture attached for info on planting :D

P.S my partner loved the Bolivian Rams when we researched them so thanks for your suggestion!!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2019, 02:59:23 PM »
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The shop "keeping fish at a certain hardness so they'll be OK in yours" is a myth.
Fish have evolved over many thousands of years, and tank bred for only a few decades. It takes longer than a few decades to change what evolution has spent so long achieving. Having said that, commercial breeding will select for those individuals which can cope with parameters outside their native water. The fry that can't cope will die leaving those that can cope for future breeding.
It doesn't matter what the shop's water is like, it is the water where the fish were bred that is important. For commercially raised fish, this is the fish farm; for wild caught fish it is their native water. We can never know what the water parameters at fish farms are.


Looking at your list:
Celestial pearl danios hardness 5 to 15, so fine
Honey gouramis 2 to 15 so fine
Corydoras trilineatus 1 to 12, so right on the edge
Bolivian ram 1 to 10, so your water is slightly too hard.
Shrimps will also be fine, but be aware that amanos, being largish shrimps, can intimidate smaller species.


One thing you could do is to use some reverse osmosis water. This is water that has had all dissolved things removed. You can buy it from fish shops or get the equipment to make your own. Unlike pH, hardness is a linear scale, which means if you use half tap water and half RO, the hardness will be halved. In your case you would only need to use about 10 to 15% RO. But you would have to use this mix at every single water change, for ever, and would add an extra cost over the years.

Are you absolutely set on Bolivian rams? Apistogramma cacatuoides, the cockatoo cichlid, and A. borelli are fine in hardness up to 15 ppm. And these fish can be kept as harems with 1 male, several females. They just need one cave per female plus one extra to give them some choice. A cave can be anything from a natural rock with a hole, to plastic caves to upturned terracotta flowerpots with a hole in the rim.
If you really do want Bolivians, they are very hard to sex until they start to breed. And they must choose their own partners. I can let you know what to look for which while not guaranteed will help in choosing a bonded pair.



And in the size tank yours is, I'd go for 20 celestial pearl danios  :)

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2019, 03:14:36 PM »
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I love it 😍 the plan is shaping up!

Well I’ll get on gradually introducing the shrimp and CPDs (definitely keen to have a bigger group as suggested!) then will contemplate potential dwarf cichlid species.

As the biggest species I would add them last anyway and I want to take things nice and slowly for my first tank.

I love the two cichlids you mention, think my partner likes the big round body shape of the GBR and Bolivian Ram so I think we’ll just go back to the drawing board to see what we think. We can be patient and this “category” of fish for us was essentially a bonus crew for the community :) all suggestions welcome!

Nice to have the expert advice out there to do things properly!
 :cheers:

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2019, 03:57:48 PM »
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To throw a wild card - I know the body shape is not the same as rams but what do you think about peacock gudgeons (aka peacock gobies, you'll see both names used)? https://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/peacock-goby.html Your water is perhaps a tad too hard, but I have them in water right on the lower end of their range.

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2019, 07:50:44 PM »
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They look beautiful 😍 think we have some tough decisions on our hands!!

Thanks for everything!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 09:07:06 AM »
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I have hard water, and use RO in some of my tanks. The down side to that is always having to have a container of RO around the house in case of emergencies, though the up side is having a good excuse to go to the fish store every week to get the RO.  ;)

Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2019, 10:25:48 AM »
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Hi Joanna,

At some stage, you may wish to consider adding some snails to your new tank. I consider them to be a very important part of an aquarium's ecosystem. Like shrimps, they are sensitive to copper dissolved in the water. But we can advise you on that. A good choice of snail for freshwater tanks is the Zebra Nerite. They are very attractive and will help to keep algae at bay. Although Zebra Nerite snails will occasionally lay tiny white eggs on hard surfaces (e.g. aquarium glass), they will not hatch. So your tank will not be taken over by snails.

If it's too much to consider snails right now, no problem. Just keep them at the back of your mind.

JPC

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2019, 04:04:01 PM »
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I wouldn’t call a GH of 11 hard, I’d call it borderline. Most soft water fish (not blackwater fish) will be fine in it. Many need soft water for breeding, but they can easily adapt to it otherwise. A moderate hardness isn’t actually a big issue for softwater fish because all that happens is their osmotic system rests. It’s the other way round, hard fish in soft water, that causes problems because their osmotic system has to stop resting and suddenly work hard, which it has evolved out of.

These are all small and very peaceful for cichlids... 

From South America there’s Laetacara, Bolivians, Blue Rams (need it hotter), some Apistos (never had much dealings with them), and then there’s the small ones... Dicrossus, Crenicara, Taeniacara.

From Africa you have Anomalochromis thomasi, Nannacara, Nanochromis, and even the smaller Pelvicachromis, like P. roloffi and P. subocellatus, although they might not be all that friendly if they breed.

If you don’t want breeding, keep the temperature in the low half of their range.

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Galaxy Rasbora with German Rams
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2019, 06:59:01 PM »
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Hello everyone!

@Littlefish you sound like a bad influence haha! I’m afraid my tank is a bit awkward as it is (it’s in a wall) so I’m not sure I could face RO too 🙈

@jaypeecee I in fact already have snails...they appeared a week after the plants 😆 I identified them as bladder snails and ramshorn snails and figured they would simply be eating the initial algae and I would eventually have some fish that could keep them in line! But a nice managed population of the Zebra Nerite sounds perfect.
I can’t believe how addicted to learning about tropical species I have become...so another suggestion is never too much to consider! Thank you :)

@Hampalong thanks for all those suggestions! Sometimes the hardest part is knowing where to start, all these new species you (and others!) have written about open up many new paths of research for me which is fantastic. Now to google all those names....!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


 


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