Ammonia In Tap Water

Hi all.

I have two questions really. Not sure if they will both be seen in the one post but I'll try!

I have a 60 litre tank that I have /am cycling. I have really hard, alkaline water (10° and 8.0ph) so there's a little issue straight away out of the tap. I have been taking regular ammonia readings that have been consistant.. 25 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 40/80 Nitrate and it remains exactly the same even after a 60% water change. I have been tearing my hair out thinking this tank just isn't gonna cycle. It been 5 weeks and the ammonia has never been 0. I then yesterday tested my tap water for ammonia out of curiosity and there it was. . 25ppm ammonia. I think I am right in assuming this is chloramine in my water. I treat it with Seachem Prime before a water change. So am I safe to presume that this 0.25 reading is safe for my fish and to use it as 'my zero' reading.

My other question is does anyone have any experience with stingray filters? I am not sure whether much water is actually drawn in through the filter media as there is a lot of un sealed areas around the flip up lid that water could get through. Is this any problem at all. I'm just worried about the water not all passing by my benefitial bacteria in my media. When I do a water change and the level drops an inch or two below the outlet novel it stops pumping so the water is falling out of the sides and clearly not being drawn up in enough volume through the 'tail'.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Oh one important bit. I started a fish less cycle but with going on holiday for 10 days I didn't want my BB to starve off ammonia and then be back to square one so I added four Pristella Tetras. Now they did die admittedly but this was week 2&3 and when I got home my ammonia was 0.75. It has since come down to the 0.25 I mentioned.

To cycle/prepare the filter (or, more specifically, its media) to be able to build up sufficient beneficial bacteria to handle/process the proposed fish's waste, you'll need to add a source of ammonia to your tank to simulate fish waste, otherwise the readings will be much the same as what comes out of the tap. Details on how to do a fishless cycle is here https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fishless-cycling-how-to-do-it/ Once that process is complete (usually 4-6 weeks but the readings will let you know when you're at that stage), then you can safely add fish.

What is the light where you read the test result? Daylight is best - easy at this time of year  - and it is known that fluorescent lights, including compact fluorescent energy saving bulbs, make the test tube look greener than it really is.
It is also known that people's eyes see colours differently. Some people never see the yellow zero colour even on tanks that have been running for years.

Ammonia in tap water is usually caused by chloramine, and prime will detoxify it for 24 hours, then it will turn back into undetoxified ammonia. Normally, the ammonia from chloramine has been 'eaten' by the filter bacteria within 24 hours.

Do you have any live plants in the tank? Plants prefer ammonia as fertiliser so they will remove a lot of the ammonia made by the fish. Floating plants are particularly good for this as they are very close to the tank lights, and can take in carbon dioxide from the air - these are the other two things needed for plant growth.
If you tell us the size of the tank we can recommend suitable plant species.





Stingray filters do have a couple of problems.
The first one to be aware of is that small fish can get stuck in the gap between the filter and the tank. The solution is to put a layer of filter wool in the gap so the fish can't get into it.
The second problem is the media. Part of the media is carbon-zeolite cartridges. Carbon is not needed on a routine basis and it will remove medication should you ever have sick fish. Zeolite removes ammonia and medication. The trouble is that zeolite gets full and stops absorbing ammonia; because it was removing ammonia not enough bacteria have grown so ammonia shoots up in the water. You are tied to replacing these cartridges before the zeolite gets full for ever.
The best thing you can do is take these cartridges out and use them to cut a piece of sponge to the same size and shape and use those in place of the cartridges. Any brand of filter sponge will do as long as it is big enough.
For anyone unfamiliar with the filter, here is the manual https://uk.hagen.com/File/c02555ca-c56a-457c-80fc-f612958bbb2f


Or get a better filter 

And you should turn the heater and filter off when you do a water change. Heaters have been known to explode if they turn on when out of water, and filter pumps burn out if run in air. Water changes should be 50% a week when you have fish so the level will drop well below the heater and filter.
The stingray's pump is at the top of the filter so as the water level drops past the top of the filter the pump is running in air.





Fishless cycles take longer than 2 weeks. When I did one, it took 7 weeks.
Do you have any fish left in the tank now? If you don't, I suggest you buy a bottle of ammonia and follow the method in fcmf's link. If you do have fish, the best way to protect them is with live plants. We can help you with those 

Just to add to the helpful advice above:
* in a fishless cycle, ammonia such as Kleen-Off ammonia is a much better source of ammonia than that from fish food; I and others have tried the fish food method but it's not very reliable and is difficult to gauge how much and how frequently to dose it, whereas it's much clearer to do so with ammonia;
* if I've understood your post correctly, the fish have all died and you've not been dosing ammonia (or fish food to create the ammonia) since, in which case you'll need to resume doing so in order to enable the cycle to re-start/continue.

Hope that's helpful.

Regarding the ammonia test - not in direct sunlight but in a well lit location. In the shade of a bush or round the corner from the sun would be best. Or on a lightly overcast day.

Since you do have plants, I would not worry too much about the ammonia reading. I know that anubias are slow growing plants and will therefore not take up ammonia very quickly but they should cope. I have all slow growing plants (including anubias  ) except for the water sprite and hornwort floating on the surface, and my tank is quite heavily stocked. A few months ago I turned the filter off to adjust it and forgot to turn it back on. I found out a day later and tested for ammonia & nitrite to be on the safe side. Both were zero. With the amount of fish I have, that can only be due to the plants using all the ammonia made by the fish.



Re the filter, looking at the manual there are 2 pieces of sponge in the 'tail' and a cartridge in each 'wing'. Leave the sponges there and swap one cartridge for sponge at first. You will need to trim the sponge to the same size and shape as the cartridge. After a month, swap the other cartridge. Carbon and zeolite will grow bacteria so changing one at a time means you are not removing a lot of bacteria at one go.
If you do get a new filter on payday, 'persuade' the stingray sponges to fit the new filter, with a pair of scissors if necessary. Fill any spaces with the media that comes with the new filter. After a month, you can replace the stingray sponges with the media that comes with the new filter, a bit at a time, once a month. The cartridges will be more of a problem as they won't fit any other filter. I would suggest leaving them in the tank for a few weeks in a region where the water flow is quite strong.
And make sure the new filter doesn't have a lot of carbon or carbon-zeolite cartridges  If you tell us how big the tank is, we can all tell you our favourite filters for that size.



Guppies are fine at hardness 10 deg/178 ppm (they need 143 to 536 ppm); but before buying check that any future hard water species are OK at 10 deg/178 ppm. For example, mollies need 15 to 35 deg, a lot more than your 10.

I have Eheim filters. I use their Biopowers in my big tank, and I had the Aquaball in my old 50 litre tank. Both of these have baskets which would fit the stingray sponges with a bit of cutting up. Other people have used their Pickup filters and like them. These have just one sponge, but you should be able to cut some of that off to make room for the stingray's sponges. Looking at the photos, I think the sponge is hollow so you might be able to get the stingray's sponges in there. @TopCookie has one of these so he'll be able to help you better.


Aquaball - get the 130
Biopower - the 160
Pickup  - the 160.

Those models are rated for bigger than the tank you have but the flow rate can be adjusted with all of them. I always prefer to have a model rated for slightly bigger tanks and turn the flow down rather than one that can only just cope.

@TopCookie - how would you use existing media in a Pickup? Is there a hollow in the sponge that could be used? Or would it mean cutting up the Pickup's sponge?

Ok, just one more query.

Will nitrates of. 40 and above be a problem. Again my tap water comes with     . 40 nitrates straight out of the tap so is only going to go higher.

Im so tempted to get a RO system so at least I can start from a blank canvass each time.

I have tap water that contains 40ppm nitrates, with hardness 17dh.
Most of my tanks are just de-chlorinated tap water with limited amounts of live plants (certainly not heavily planted) and I find that my nitrates do not go up beyond 40ppm. Live plants, especially floating plants, are great for controlling nitrates, along with regular tank maintenance & water changes.

I do use a mix of tap & RO for one tank, but that is more to reduce the hardness to make it more acceptable for the fish.

Obviously it is entirely up to you if you would prefer to use the filters that Sue has suggested, or get an RO system, but I just wanted to point out that your nitrates may not go up, so it may be a lot more work for you. As for whether <40ppm is better for the fish, yes I would have thought so, but some fish are more hardy than others, so it depends on what fish you want to keep.

I do my changes on a daily basis. Would this work for you ? As the amounts are smaller there’s less shock to the fish as the changes are subtle. Especially if your looking to change 50% of the volume per week.