Ammonia Calculator

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Offline steven

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Ammonia Calculator
« on: October 29, 2014, 01:36:26 PM »
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Hi all

I have been having ammonia problems and changed water several times but it's not getting rid of it.

Looking through previous post about ammonia, I saw a post about the Ammonia Calculator.
I used it and with ammonia a 2 PPM, PH at 6.5 and 77 degrees temperature, it calculates I have 0.0037 toxic ammonia so shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Is this right?

http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

Offline Yorkshireadam

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 02:29:37 PM »
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At lower (acidic) ph's ammonia exists in a higher form of ammonium which is less toxic, tester kits don't differentiate between ammonia and ammonium. It's less toxic, some even say non toxic to fish as ammonium however it's not an ideal situation and you should really be aiming for zero.

Offline Sue

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 02:38:52 PM »
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I agree. The ideal is zero. I regard ammonium as less toxic than ammonia rather than non toxic.
But if you keep the ammonia level in that calculator below 0.02, there is not enough in the ammonia form to cause lasting damage.

Offline steven

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 02:52:16 PM »
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Thanks
While on the subject, I've have tried loads of bacteria boost and filter starters but none seem to help. I've spent so much on them my wife said she is going to divorce me if I spend another pence on them.
I tried the fishless cycle but must not had done it right with this ammonia problem.
I was given a 175 liter tank, I have the internal filter that came with it and I bought a Fluval 306 which states up to 300 liter. It seems to me that would be enough filtration.
I didn't think I was adding my fish too fast. It's two months old and has 5 fish.
I don't over feed. For a week I didn't feed anything because they weren't eating.
What I feed now once a day is gone within less than a minute
I do lot's of water changes but still ammonia is high. Nitrite and Nitrate are both zero.
Any suggestion?

Offline Yorkshireadam

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 03:17:00 PM »
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My tank has been running for a month with no readings for anything other than Nitrates, which are hovering between 10-20 ppm with 6 tetras, soon to be 10 tetras, as with anything alive the bacteria grow at their own rate, as Sue will tell you commercial bacteria boosters/filter starters are almost always pointless.
What are your 5 fish? In a 175l tank it would take a while for any bacteria to grow, it may be just a waiting game.
It does sound stupid but you are dechlorinating the water for water changes? Are you cleaning the filter medium (sponges, ceramics etc)?

Offline Sue

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 03:21:15 PM »
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And are you using the ammonia tester correctly? I'm not intending to sound insulting, but it's always worth asking. The light source can affect reading the colour as well. Some lights, particularly fluorescent/compact fluorescent energy savers, can make the colour in the tube look greener than it really is.

Offline steven

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2014, 03:35:26 PM »
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I use Stress Coat when I change water and usually add a bit more than dosage. This is what the Aquatics shop recomends. Is there something better?
I've found a lot of what the guy in there told me has been wrong a few times. So I'm looking for a different one.
He told me not to change water if ammonia gets high because this will break the cycle. Is this right.
I've read some post about testing and hold it against the colour chart.
I'm using API ammonia test drops.

Offline Yorkshireadam

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2014, 03:58:15 PM »
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Always take a shops advice with more than a pinch of salt, they more than likely just want your money with little regard for anything else. If you were told not to change water that's a prime example as the ammonia eating bacteria do have to have a good source ammonia however if you have high ammonia but don't change the water you'll end up with dead fish. Even a trace of ammonia will encourage the bacteria to multiply.

Offline Sue

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2014, 06:53:21 PM »
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A lot of shop workers also seem convinced that doing water changes will remove a lot of the bacteria. They don't seem to realise the bacteria we want don't live in the water column, they live in the biofilm which coats every surface in the tank (the bacteria grow everywhere, just more of them in the filter because they like the conditions in there). It is very difficult to remove these bacteria by doing water changes. As long as you remove the chlorine or chloramine in your tapwater the bacteria will be unaffected.

Stress coat is fine to use as a dechlorinator. If you want something cheaper, look at Seachem Prime or API Tap Water Conditioner. They are very concentrated, and a bottle goes a long way. You may have to buy them on-line, and Amazon & eBay don't sell Prime because Seachem won't let them.
Prime does detoxify ammonia while the API one doesn't - but the effect of the detoxification only lasts 24 hours or so anyway. On the other hand, Prime contains a lot of stuff besides the chemicals that remove chlorine and metals; the API one contains only those things.
With any dechlorinator, dosing up to one and a half times the dose rate on the bottle is OK; I wouldn't go much more than that.

Offline steven

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 05:56:05 PM »
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Thanks

Could I ask a couple more questions?

After using a pondmedic bio starter my ammonia got higher. Is it the ammonia in these filter starters that start the process? If that is the case I really messed up cause I used lot. The guy at the shop told me can't use too much but after putting loads in I saw the small print not to overdose.

Second question how much water is safe to change and how often.

I really don't want to lose my fish but with ammonia getting higher and higher, I don't know what to do

Offline Sue

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 06:37:55 PM »
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Some of these 'bacteria in a bottle' products do contain ammonia. I think the idea is that they contain both ammonia and bacteria; you add them before fish and the ammonia feeds the bacteria so they colonise the filter so fast you can add fish a couple of days later. Only not many of them actually work.
Don't believe everything the guy at the shop says. I once overheard a shop worker telling a customer he could add this bottled bacteria and at the same time he must add a tankful of fish or the product wouldn't work. When I got home, I googled the product, found the manufacturer's website and it said that the tank must be stocked slowly, starting with only a few fish. So much for getting a whole tankful straight away!


As for water changes, if your ammonia and/or nitrite are high, you can do a 90% water change every day if that's what is needed to keep the levels low. Provided the new water is dechlorinated and at the same temp as the tank water, huge water changes are better for the fish than swimming in toxic water. Yes, the water changes are stressful for them, but not doing the water changes is worse.

Offline steven

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 06:53:16 PM »
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Thanks Sue

That's a lot of water in a 175L but if it saves my fish worth it.

Offline Sue

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Re: Ammonia Calculator
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 07:01:01 PM »
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You don't need to change 90% unless your ammonia/nitrite are very high. Only as much as needed to keep them below the danger point. Some people, who get a lot of fish for an uncycled tank, find their levels get very high, very quickly. They are the ones who need 90% water changes.
You already have the calculator for ammonia - keep that below 0.02 ammonia, as opposed to the tester level which is combined ammonia and ammonium.
Nitrite must be kept below 0.25ppm, using the level as measured by the test kit. The is no less-toxic form of nitrite, it is all bad for the fish.

You only need change as much water as will keep the levels below those danger points.

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