Author Topic: Am I ready to go? (Read 6665 times) 16 replies

thebooler · « **on:** October 30, 2013, 01:22:58 PM »

Hi folks - I set my tank up on Sunday (Fluval Roma 125ltr) and put in the substrate and decor. Filters been running since lunchtime sunday, dechlorinator has been added, bacterial growth speed up fluid has been added; and water temp is at 27/28.

Am I ready to add fish?

What should I add, and how many?

I originally thought about adding just a couple initially but wondered if u should add a shoal of 6 (depending on the fish).

Any help greatly appreciated.

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2013, 04:21:39 PM »

That depends on whether you want to do a fish-in cycle or a fishless cycle.

Also have you got a test kit as you'll need one for whichever method you are using.

Fish-in
The bacterial growth fluid will probably have done nothing. Even Tetra Safe Start, when it works, only helps to speed up the cycle, it doesn't do it instantly. And most of the others don't even do that.

27/28 is a bit on the high side for most fish so turn it down to 25 if you are going to do a fish-in cycle. The general guide is 1 inch of fish (adult size not what they are in the shop) for every 5 American gallons for fishless cycling. You tank holds 125 litres when empty so probably more like 110 litres with the substrate and decor displacing some water. That works out as 29.3 American galls, so you can get fish with a total adult length of 4 inches. Look at the size of the fish in the fish profiles on here, or if they aren't in the database look at Seriously Fish. This will restrict you to a shoal of small fish that grow to less than 1 inch, or something like a couple of platies.

Avoid fish such as guppies and neon tetras as they don't do well in cycling tanks - in fact neons don't do well in tanks that have been runnning less than 6 months.

Once you have the fish, you will need to test the tank for ammonia and nitrite at least twice a day and do a water change every time you see a reading above zero. The amount you will need to change will depend on just how high the level is and how quickly it got that high. Remember that exposure to levels of ammonia and nitrite over 0.25 will harm the fish. You won't see any nitrite for a couple of weeks or so as that is made by the ammonia eating bacteria and you have to grow some of them before nitrite will show up.
Eventually you will find that both ammonia and nitrite stay at zero without having to do any water changes. After a week of zeros, you'll be able to get more fish, but no more than a third of the amount of fish already there. Carry on checking twice a day for ammonia and nitrite and if they stay at zero for a week, you can get more fish, and so on till you have all your fish. But if you see any ammonia and/or nitrite after adding fish, you'll need to start doing more water changes and the week wait will only start once ammonia and nitrite stay at zero by themselves.

Fishless cycle
For fishless cycling, the temp needs to be around 30, so turn the heater up. Then you'll need to buy some ammonia solution. Most Homebase stores sell it in the cleaning section, or you can buy Jeyes Kleen Off Ammmonia from Ebay/Amazon. Then follow the fishless cycling method in the 'Filtration and Cycling' section on here. It will take a few weeks to cycle the tank but you'll be able to add 75% of your fish at once when it has finished.

thebooler · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2013, 05:32:29 PM »

Many thanks once again.

thebooler · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2013, 04:28:50 PM »

I've put 6 danios in the tank. This may seem like a silly question, but when doing the water changes, do I just remove 25% of the water with a bucket and then top the tank back up with tap water?
Do I need to keep adding chlorinated each time? Should I only change the water when required to do so after taking readings, or should I do it every couple of days?
Sorry for being a pain but I want to get it right. :-)

Sue · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2013, 04:57:50 PM »

The easiest way is with a siphon tube. That way you can clean the gravel at the same time. This sort of thing. Most LFS will sell them. You put the thin end in a bucket and jiggle the wide end up and down in the tank till the water starts to flow. Then plunge the wide end into the gravel and watch the fish poo etc flow up. When it's clear, move along to the next patch of gravel. Practice on a bucket of water outdoors first, make sure the bucket of water is off the floor for the siphon to work.

To refill, either the same bucket or a separate one for dirty and clean water. Add dechlorinator to every bucketful at the dose for the volume of the bucket. Eg, my bucket holds 8 litres right to the brim but realistically 7.5 litres without spilling it. My dechlorinator says 1 drop per 3.8 litres. I add 2 drops to each bucket of water. Dechlorinator reacts instantly, no need to let it stand.
For small (less than 15%) water changes you can use just cold water. For more than that you need to warm it. If you have a combi boiler, you can use the hot tap. If you have a hot water cylinder that's filled from a cold header tank in the attic, boil a kettle (the header tank could well be full of nasty things). Feeling the tank and the bucket with your hand will get the temp close enough.

Be guided by your readings. Whenever you see a reading above zero for either ammonia or nitrite or both, do a water change. If the readings get high quickly, you can do nore than 25% or do 2 water changes a day. Whatever it takes to keep the fish safe. When you notice that nitrite isn't going up as quickly as it used to, start making a note of when you need to do a water change so it'll be easy to see when you haven't needed to do one for a week.
You won't see any nitrite for at least a week or two, but keep checking it anyway.

thebooler · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2013, 05:24:33 PM »

Thanks again Sue. When you say zero reading, the tester I have has a colour coded chart on the tub. It's actually quite difficult to follow if you're new to this kinda stuff.

Sue · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2013, 06:54:59 PM »

Which testers do you have, and are they strips, liquids or tablets/powders?

thebooler · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2013, 01:36:18 PM »

It's Sera Quick test 5 in 1 Sue.

Sue · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2013, 07:36:12 PM »

Googled and found them. They are not a product I'm familiar with.

I should warn you that test strips are considered to be quite inaccurate. And they don't include ammonia - Sera's website here shows the strips test for pH, KH, GH, NO₃ and NO₂ - that's pH, carbonate hardness, general gardness, nitrate and nitrite. You need an ammonia test asap as that's the one that rises first, and you need to know the level urgently.
Can I suggest you get an ammonia test as soon as the shops open in the morning, preferably one that has bottles of reagents. You can buy tests singly, but a kit containing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH works out cheaper than buying them all individually. On-line is cheaper than real shops, but you can't afford to wait for the post for the ammonia tester.

You got six fish yesterday. Since you can't test for ammonia, the safest thing would be a 50% water change this evening - just remove the water with a jug or something, it'll be quicker and there won't be much mess in the gravel yet. Then when you've got your ammonia tester tommorrow you can check the reading and see if you need another water change.

As for the strips, according to the instruction, you dip the strip in the water for 1 sec, shake off the excess water and wait 60 secs. Use a kitchen timer if you have one. Then hold the strip to the chart on the side of the pack, preferably in daylight. Each test should show a range of colours. One by one match the individual test patch to it's corresponding shade card and make a note of the colour that is closest to your strip.
I don't like the idea of putting a strip containing chemicals into a fish tank. I would use a tub to remove a bit of water then do the test over the sink. And as for the daylight bit - with liquid testers, energy saving and other fluorescent tubes can make the colours look wrong. Halogen bulbs and old fashioned bulbs are OK. I haven't checked them under led lights yet so I don't know about them.

The results - pH could be anywhere between 6 and 8 depending on your water supply. KH and GH could also be anything from 0 upwards; don't worry about them at this point. Nitrate will probably show some reading between 0 and 50. It is unusual for it to be zero, and 50 is the upper limit allowed by law. Nitrite should be zero at this point. You don't have any ammonia eating bacteria yet and they make nitrite. No bacteria = no nitrite.

But you will probably have some ammonia, only the strips don't test for it. You need to know your ammonia reading so you know when to do a water change. I know I'm nagging, but get an ammonia test!!!!!

New fish · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2013, 08:06:39 PM »

As a noob I was using the tetra strips and hand on heart I can say that they are not accurate enough to set up a tank, IMO spending the money on this test kit was the best thing I have done so far for my fish, as its reduced now its a great buy.
You will learn more about your water and help keep your fish alive longer.

thebooler · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2013, 12:29:32 PM »

Thanks Sue. I did a 50% water change and went and bought an Ammonia test kit. Nutrafin which is by test tube adding the 6 drops to the water. The water never changed colour at all which suggests no ammonia. The fish are lively enough and things look OK.
I'll test tomorrow morning again.
Should I change around 25% of the water every 2 days anyway, even with a zero reading?
Needless to say, the shop who sold me the test kit without a test for ammonia won't be seeing me,again! £17 for the wrong item.

Sue · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2013, 12:53:26 PM »

Change the water whenever you see a reading for ammonia, and in a couple of weeks or so, the same for nitrite. You aim is to stop either of them ever getting to 0.25.

I've not used the Nutrafin tester (I have API) but the liquid ones are all fine.

Shops don't really believe in cycling or even in keeping your water conditions in check by water changes. The usual way they tell people to start a tank is set it up, get fish and don't do any water changes as "if the levels don't get high the tank will never cycle". The tank will cycle if the levels of ammonia and nitrite are there as just a trace, lower than our kits can register.

Edited for terrible spelling

Sue · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2013, 02:04:22 PM »

Forgot to say -

Your fish will have been excreting ammonia, but since you have just 6 danios in 125 litres, that isn't very many fish, far less than the amount you can have once your tank is cycled. It is quite possible that the amount of ammonia they are excreting hasn't yet built up to the point where the tester can detect it - and you did that 50% water change which would have diluted it. But it will build up and you need to check the tank daily to find out when it reaches the point where a water change is needed.

Once you have some ammonia eaters making nitrite, you will find that goes up faster than ammonia did. This is simply due to the fact that nitrite weighs more than ammonia and the test kits measure them on a weight per unit of water basis. 1ppm ammonia is turned into about 2.5ppm nitrite.

Edited due to terrible spelling

thebooler · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2013, 04:52:46 PM »

Sue - you've been a great help here. Here's hoping I can build from here with your advice.
PS I don't think you're a nag. :-)

New fish · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2013, 08:54:15 PM »

Sue has been a great help to me, so just jumped on this to say thanks also.

thebooler · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2013, 12:06:19 PM »

Hi Sue, I've been taking readings now since Saturday and Ammonia still shows up clear. Could this be that the bacteria speed up treatment I added is actually working?

Fish seem to be doing OK.

Sue · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2013, 12:14:40 PM »

It is possible, though the one you used is one that doesn't usually work.

Though having said that, there are some that work for the ammonia eaters but not the nitrite eaters. Carry on monitoring your ammonia daily, just in case, but also start doing nitrite tests at the same time. It will just mean a few minutes work for you but those few minutes could turn out to be a life saver for the fish.

Historically, these bacterial starters used the wrong species of nitrite eating bacteria. Even though the right one has been known for quite some time now, there are still some manufacturers that use the wrong one.
And the nitrite eating bacteria are the more delicate of the two; it is more difficult to keep them alive in the bottle. Some preparations contain live ammonia eaters (or at least dormant ones) but dead nitrite eaters.

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Am I Ready To Go?

Am I Ready To Go?

Author Topic: Am I ready to go? (Read 6665 times) 16 replies

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