See less of these, support the forums and become a Super Subscriber today!

We also have sponsorship opportunities for tropical fish related businesses from just 20 per month.

Advice Please - Kribensis

Author Topic: Advice please - Kribensis  (Read 2251 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Greendragon

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Likes: 0
  • Malcolm Brooks
Advice please - Kribensis
« on: August 10, 2013, 02:30:57 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Hi,

I have just started a new tank and introduced 5 Black Neons as the first fish.  Once the tank has settled down and the water quality is right, my wife wants some larger fish as she wants to give them names (I know... don't ask, please) and likes the look of a pair of Kribensis - failing which, a pair of Dwarf Gouramis.

However, I want a few shrimp in there as well.

Questions:

1. Are the above considered to be compatible choices?
2. Would either the Kribensis or the Gouramis go for the shrimp?

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Likes: 282
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2013, 02:54:37 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Kribs would most likely go for the shrimp.

How big is the tank, not just volume but the side-to-side and front-to-back measurements?
The absolute minimum for kribs is 71 litres with a 30 x 37.5cm footprint. Bigger is better. Dwarf gouramis could get away with a slightly smaller tank, but again, bigger is better.

Dwarf gouramis can be a bit of a problem - a lot of them are infected with an incurable disease called dwarf gourami iridovirus (or DGIV for short). Don't get 2 males unless you have an enormous tank or they are likely to fight. And 1 male 2 females are more likely to get on than a pair. Male dwarf gouramis can turn pretty nasty if he wants to breed and she doesn't. Having more than one females spreads his aggression between two of them.





You say you've only just started the tank and have black neons - do I take that to mean you are using the black neons to do a fish-in cycle?
If you have, please don't take any notice of what the shop/tank manufacturer tells you. Fish-in cycles can be done so long as you are prepared to do some work. This is how to get through the cycle with no fatalities. If you read that link, you'll find you need your own liquid reagent test kit, and will probably need to do daily water changes. Depending on the size of your tank, you may need to do more than one water change. 5 black neons give you 20cm of fish (it's adult size you need, not what they are now) which means that is the recommended maximum amount of fish for a 110 litre tank. If your tank is smaller than that you will need to do a lot of water changes to keep on top of the ammonia and then nitrite levels.
You will need your own testers because you need to test the water at least once a day, and it is not practical to get a shop to do that amount of testing.

Only when both ammonia and nitrite have stayed at zero for a week without needing to do any water changes will it be safe to get more fish.
And shrimps are even more sensitive to water conditions than fish; they will need to be left a good few months yet.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Likes: 282
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2013, 02:58:32 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Forgot to mention - you could get honey gouramis instead of dwarfs as they are usually healthier. You can usually find the red version and the yellow version quite easily. The photographs in the Fish Profiles section on here are the wild coloured version and they are hard to come by. I know, I've tried  :D
And they do well as just a m/f pair.

Offline Greendragon

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Likes: 0
  • Malcolm Brooks
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2013, 03:33:04 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Many thanks Sue.

I suspected that the tank would not be big enough for Kribs and happen not big enough for Gouramis either. The shop keep muttering about 25 small tetras but I cannot bring myself to accept that number in this tank.  The tank I had many years ago was almost twice the size and I did not have anywhere near that number of fish in it.

The tank is almost a cube with a 38cm x 32cm footprint.  I set it up and planted it last week - no fish.  I tested the water this morning before going to choose the fish and the readings were Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 0, pH - 7.2.  The water is a medium/hard water.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Likes: 282
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2013, 04:42:16 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Yes, 25 fish would be too many unless they were all less than 1cm long at adult size. Some shop workers have no idea what they are talking about. A lot are told to make things up to get a sale  :(

With a tank with that footprint, you will be limited as to the fish you can keep. Most bottom dweller, for example,  are not a good idea as they need a big footprint to live on. As I've mentioned before, red or yellow honey gouramis would be suitable. I find the yellow ones easier to tell the sex. I can tell you how when your tank is cycled - I have a trio of yellow honeys in my 125 litre  :D


The tank would have had no ammonia or nitrite in it this morning as there were no fish in it. As soon as you put the black neons in they would have been making ammonia, so that will be going up. The plants should help but only to a significant degree if there are a lot of them and they are growing quickly.


You may already know all this, but I always assume a newcomer to the hobby, or one like yourself who hadn't had fish for a long time, is unaware of what happens when fish are put in a tank. If you do already know, ignore all the following  ;D
The first thing you will see is the ammonia level creeping up. You need to keep this down below 0.25, and as close to zero as possible. As you tested after the water had been in the tank a few days, your pH is a 'stood' one (I'll explain that in a minute) so it will remain at 7.2. Test kits read both ammonia and ammonium. These both exist in the the tank in an equilibrium, and the exact amount of each form is pH dependant. The higher the pH, the more ammonia. Ammonia is much more toxic than ammonium, and at your pH you'll have more of the toxic ammonia than someone with a pH of, say, 6.8. So it is more important in your case that you keep the ammonia low by doing water changes. 
For several days, perhaps a few weeks, you will find the ammonia reading has gone up every time you test, and you need to do as many water changes, and as big as necessary to stop the ammonia reading getting above 0.25.
Eventually you'll notice that the ammonia reading is going up more slowly and eventually staying at zero. This is when you'll find nitrite showing up in the tests. You need to keep this below 0.25 by doing water changes, like with ammonia. The nitrite eating bacteria take longer to multiply than the ammonia eaters; as a rule of thumb, twice as long.
For a couple of months, you need to test at least once a day for both ammonia and nitrite, and do a water change as big and as often as necessary to keep both of them below 0.25 at all times. It is worth making a note somewhere of the readings and how often you do a water change so that you'll know when you've gone a week with zero for both and not had to do a water change. That will be when the cycle has finished.


pH - it is always a good idea to test water that has stood for 24 hours (which is what you tank water had done when you tested it). It is common for water companies to pump carbon dioxide into the mains water to reduce the amount of limescale building up in the pipes. Carbon dioxide makes the water acidic. When tapwater stands, the carbon dioxide gasses off and the pH rises. As your tank water had stood before you tested its pH, that is a true reading for your tapwater.


Can I ask, what type of nitrate tester do you have? Nitrate is notoriously difficult to test without very expensive lab equipement; it is easier to regard the reading on home testers as just ball park. But to get anything like an accurate result with liquid reagent testers, one of the bottles has to be shaken extremely well. All makes of liquid nitrate testers have 2 or 3 bottles and a reagent in one of the bottles settles on the bottom. The shaking in the instructions is necessary to get that reagent back into the liquid. For a bottle that has not been used for some time, it is also a good idea to tap it on the work surface first to break up any lumps of sediment. Again, applogies if you already know this, but you'd be surprised how many people do not follow the instrcutions regarding the shaking.

Offline Greendragon

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Likes: 0
  • Malcolm Brooks
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 10:06:55 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Thanks Sue.

It the minute I am using testing strips but will be getting a liquid testing kit tomorrow, following your advice.

There was a slight change on the ammonia strip this morning, so I am doing a 10% water change today and will continue to check, adjusting the volume of the water change as required.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8634
  • Likes: 282
Re: Advice please - Kribensis
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
The strips are notoriously inaccurate, I'm afraid. On-line is cheaper for liquid reagent test kits. If you do buy this way, I would do a water change every day of around 50% till you have the kit and can check the levels. It may be more than you need, but 50% of your tank is do-able and it's better to do a water change bigger than needed rather than risk it being too small. Large % water changes are fine so long as the new water is dechlorinated and warmed to roughly the same temp as the tank - feeling with your hand will get it close enough.


See less of these, become a Super Subscriber today! We also have sponsorship opportunities for tropical fish related businesses from just 20 per month.
See less of these, support the forums and become a Super Subscriber today!

We also have sponsorship opportunities for tropical fish related businesses from just 20 per month.

** Become a ThinkFish Super Subscriber **

It takes time and money to keep ThinkFish going, if you'd like to help, then a Subscription of your choice would be fantastic. Your subscription will help fund new articles, help pay for server costs and help fund development and promotion initiatives, helping us bring you more of the good stuff you love! You'll also see less ads. Why not become a Super Subscriber today!?

We also have sponsorship opportunities for tropical fish related businesses from just 20 per month.

Tags:
 


Assess Tankmates In The Tropical Fish Community Creator


Topics that relate to "Advice please - Kribensis"

  Subject - Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
1748 Views
Last post November 20, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
by bferg4
5 Replies
1808 Views
Last post November 02, 2014, 10:06:44 PM
by biffster
0 Replies
969 Views
Last post December 28, 2014, 02:19:33 PM
by bferg4
4 Replies
2758 Views
Last post October 19, 2015, 09:41:03 PM
by Dominika
1 Replies
1324 Views
Last post October 21, 2015, 01:17:04 PM
by Alex_N
32 Replies
2083 Views
Last post May 10, 2018, 09:47:29 AM
by TopCookie
0 Replies
551 Views
Last post April 02, 2018, 02:09:30 PM
by Hampalong

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 

Think Fish © 2004-2018 | Keeping Tropical Fish Forum - Everything you need for your Tropical Fish hobby
Tropical Fish Market Place
SEO Services in Kent
Legal | Contact Follow Think Fish on: