98L [orig Intended 54L/12Gal Tank] Stocking And Filtration Ideas?

Author Topic: 98L [orig intended 54L/12Gal Tank] stocking and filtration ideas?  (Read 14744 times) 63 replies

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Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2015, 07:35:56 PM »
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From what I've seen of on-line shops, they don't let you select the sex of fish, but you can always ask.

I'm quite surprised that none of your local shops stock rams. Do they not have rams of any type? Any rams other than bolivian rams are all the same species, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (bolivians are M. altispinosus)

Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2015, 07:43:47 PM »
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Im going to look at another LFS ,which I only found out about today, tomorrow. Hopefully, they will have rams.

Other than the ram issue, are all the fish compatible/suitable? Which should be added first/last?

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2015, 08:56:44 PM »
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If you like Lampeyes check out some of the 'Blue eye' family (Pseudomugil). They also have the blue eyes and are a similar size but are much more flamboyant and colourful.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2015, 09:28:33 PM »
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Wow, I love those!
Might get 6 of those instead! I assume the males are the ones with large fins? or both female and male?
Are their fins safe with the nippy little tetras?

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2015, 09:48:33 PM »
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The males are the ones with the long fins. The females look like lampeyes with slightly coloured bodies, still attractive but not a patch on the males. I'd recommend 2m 4f for a group of 6. Whilst this may not sound great, you'll actually see a lot more of the males finnage as they display for the females. The males do spar from time to time, but most of their flaring is for the females. Personally rather than having 4 CPDs and 6 Blue Eyes, I'd go for 10 of one variety. They're much happier and more impressive in larger shoals.

I don't think you'll have any problems with fin nipping. Neons aren't particularly nippy, especially in a decent sized shoal. I keep 4 Xray tetras with my Pseudomugil and have no problems.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2015, 10:12:23 PM »
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So all male blue eyes wouldn't be an option?

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 10:19:08 PM »
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I have 7m and 2f in my tank as they were all the Pseumugil sp. red neon I could find at my 5 closest LFS. I wish I'd got 3m and 6f as most of the males don't flare, only the 2 or 3 dominant ones do. I'm pretty sure that a 2:1 female to male ratio would have resulted in much more displaying as the males compete for the female attention. You're also more likely to get successful spawning with that ratio.

They're boisterous little blighters but don't think all males would be a serious problem.


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2015, 08:48:36 AM »
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Just got a reply from the seller about Ram pairs: http://puu.sh/ithDc/0d5cdc8032.png

Looks like I will either have to chance it online and hope they pair or go out and find a fish shop that sells them...

If they don't pair will they fight a lot?

Also, would khuli loaches be suitable? The community creator says they are too big for the danios but they seem smaller?

Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2015, 11:30:10 AM »
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A male and female that don't like each other could end up fighting.
With fish like rams the usual advice is to get several juveniles, wait till a pair forms then return the rest to the shop. The problem with this is that not all shops will take the 'spare' fish back.

Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2015, 07:04:14 PM »
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Had a look at the other fish shop, terrible selection. Safe to say no rams.

Is it even a good idea to get a pair that could potentially breed when I am pretty new to fish keeping and I really don't have the ability to deal with the additional fish produced? Would just getting two females be a safer option and remove the need to find a 'Pair' (allowing me to buy them online)

Thanks again.

Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2015, 07:08:40 PM »
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Two females should co-exist with no problems.

Do you have a Maidenhead Aquatics near you? They usually have them in stock.

Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 07:43:19 PM »
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There is one I know of but 'near' Is a bit of a stretch. I guess I could call them and ask if they had any?

If I was to get a Male/female pair would they breed easily or does there have to be special conditions?
Would it be safe for the babies with shrimp and otocinclus's nosing about? Is the tank big enough for the other fish to keep away from the rams to avoid aggression? How many of the fry typically survive? would the addition over-stock my tank?

All these questions once the possibility of breeding arises....


Thanks again.

Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2015, 09:06:48 PM »
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Over the years I've had bolivian rams and apistogrammas spawn in a community tank. The bolivian rams laid eggs on a flat stone (I think non-bolivian rams do this too) while apistos spawn in a cave. The parents of both types chased other fish away, but only a short distance and only as a warning. Once the intruder was far enough away, the parents no longer chased, and even when they did, they didn't make contact. Because the eggs and newly hatched fry were safe in a cave, the apistos managed to raise their fry to the free swimming stage, when they were promptly eaten by their tank mates. The bolivian rams didn't get that far. Because the eggs were out in the open they were eaten pretty quickly. If there are more than two other fish in the tank, while the parents are chasing two fish, numbers 3, 4, 5 etc sneak in and grab an egg or two before the parents get back.

So, in summary, no fry survived into the free swimming stage in a community tank and although the parents of these two types chased the other fish they did no harm.

Disclaimer - there are always exceptions to any rule! And cichlids other than bolivian rams and apistos might be nastier to tank mates.

Offline Barney626

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2015, 09:14:21 PM »
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So essentially there is no benefit for having a Male/female pair as opposed to a female/female pair as I am not interested in breeding them.

Also wanted to ask, which fish should I add first (from the list I posted)?

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 10:34:41 PM »
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Can't comment on the Rams as I've never kept them. I've heard they are sensitive fish so don't be too hard on yourself if you lose a couple.

With regards to stocking, whilst you don't have any fish that are known for being particularly tough, provided you've cycled the tank correctly most should be okay with two exceptions: Otos and Shrimp. They are algae eaters that require a mature tank. leave the tank a good few months before adding them. I'd say the Rams would also benefit from a more settled tank. 

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2015, 09:08:59 AM »
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I have tried to keep rams and on both occasions they died within weeks. That's why I got bolivian rams instead.

Offline Cod_only_knows

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2015, 07:58:05 AM »
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Just flicking through the latest PFK and it says that Blue Rams are captive bred and consequently more resilient than their wild caught cousins. Might be worth trying to track some down if you were going down that route over the Bolivian option.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Checkered Barb (3) - Endler's Livebearer (5) - Galaxy Rasbora (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »
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The electric blue and gold - and long finned and balloon bodied - are more likely to have been captive bred than the original colour and body shape. It is the natural form that has the risk if a recent wild ancestor to introduce a wider gene pool. If a breeder has spent all that time developing a particular colour strain or body shape, they won't want to dilute it with a wild type.

Did PFK say blue or electric blue? It's just that the wild colouration is often referred to as blue ram or German blue ram (GBR)

Offline fcmf

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2015, 12:37:30 PM »
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Happen to be reading the PFK at the moment so, to answer that last question, it says "Blue ram - Mikrogeophagus ramirezi" and refers to them as being "farmed, non-naturally occurring fish with a greater tolerance of water chemistry than wild types".

[Classifications are confusing - in the same edition of PFK, albeit in a reader interview, corydoras habrosus is also referred to as a pygmy cory. I thought corydoras pygmaeus were the pygmy cories, and corydoras habrosus were the salt and pepper cories. However, on checking Seriously Fish, it seems that the habrosus/salt & peppers can also be known as pygmies.]

Offline Sue

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Re: 54L/12Gal Tank stocking and filtration ideas?
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2015, 12:48:10 PM »
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Interesting. This is the problem with common names, we could be using the same name for different fish or different names for the same fish.
My understanding has been that the farmed fish that have the same appearance as the wild ones could have a recent wild ancestor to add new genes to the line. The ones that have been selectively bred to get electric blue and gold colouration, and long fins and balloon shaped bodies will not have recent wild ancestors or that would ruin the selective breeding. The problem arises in knowing if blue rams are the wild coloured ones or the selectively bred ones. For as long as I've been keeping fish 'blue', as in German blue ram, has meant the wild coloured one while the selectively bred one is called electric blue or neon blue. Obviously different people mean different things by 'blue ram'.

Sanjo was sold a hastatus cory as a habrosus and that it didn't matter as they were both pygmies!

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