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3.5 Wks With Fish, Nitrites Risen

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Offline Treacle eater

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3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« on: August 05, 2015, 01:48:10 PM »
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Hello, am brand new to fish. I have a small 30l biorb which after 3.5 weeks since putting in the first fish - 4 platys, (artificial plants only) I have a rise of Nitrites, 2ppm.

Although I understand there is this 'cycle' that needs to be got through, for a new tank, for some reason I had expected the values to have risen earlier..ie in the first 2 or 3 weeks. What I had though, is zero nitrites right until now...at week 3.5

I have been testing with the API liquid master testing kit for freshwater. For the last few weeks since adding the fish, all values apart from the ammonia, have been zero. Ammonia has been consistently 0.25ppm though I have read on here that API testing often gives this reading with no cause for alarm.

So do I need to be concerned about these nitrite levels I have right now 2ppm?
The nitrate level is registering 5ppm
High pH 7.4
Perhaps this is indeed just part of this normal cyle?

And... when I come to change the filter...I'm not quite sure when, but when I do, wont that start it all over again..the cycle? Is there no way to hold on to some of these beneficial bacteria that have finally built up, or is this how it has to be, it has to all start from scratch again with the new filter?

I thank you for any help, Treacle eater
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Offline Sue

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 03:19:53 PM »
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First of all, read this

What happens during a fish-in cycle is that the fish make ammonia but there are no bacteria to 'eat' it ready in the tank. These have to grow, and they do so slowly. As they grow, they turn the ammonia into nitrite. There is no nitrite in the tank until you have enough ammonia eaters to make it. Nitrite always lags behind ammonia which is why you had none at the beginning but you have some after 3.5 weeks.

Nitrite is toxic - it binds to the fish's blood and stops it absorbing oxygen the same way carbon monoxide does to us. The levels you have are dangerously high. You need to do a water change asap. And not just a bit but a lot. Remove most of the water leaving just enough that the fish can swim upright. Make sure the new water is the same temp as the water you take out as with a large water change like this a sudden change in temperature can shock the fish. If you have a combi boiler you can use hot tap water to warm the new water; if not, boil a kettle. Once you have done this, wait half an hour for the old and new water to mix then test again. You need the nitrite level to be below 0.25. If it is still above that reading, do another water change. Test the water every day and do a water change every time the reading gets to 0.25 - if necessary, change the water every day. Once both ammonia and nitrite both stay at zero by themselves, the cycle will be finished and you can go to weekly 25 to 30% water changes.

And don't get more fish. 4 platies is all a 30 litre tank will take.


With a biorb, the filter is in two parts - the box/sponge and the rocks on the bottom of the tank. The rocks are the biological medium where the bacteria live. The box contains a mixture of zeolite and carbon - they want you to change this regularly but don't bother. Zeolite removes ammonia and starves the bacteria! The sponge is to catch bits of debris. Both sponge and zeolite/carbon will grow some bacteria, but the main home for them is the rocks. rather than change the box or sponge just squeeze/swoosh them in water you take out during a water change. The sponge will never look new again, don't scrub it too hard  :)
When you do a water change make sure you push the siphon tube right down into the rocks to get rid of the fish poo, uneaten food etc that gets trapped. This decomposes to make even more ammonia.
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Offline Extreme_One

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 03:24:48 PM »
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Hello and welcome.

The fact you have Nitrite readings means that you have a bacterial colony working to eat the Ammonia and convert it to Nitrite.

Ammonia is extremely toxic to fish, but soon  you will have enough of the Ammonia-eating bacteria to keep the Ammonia levels at 0.

The thing is, Nitrites are also toxic to fish, though not quite as harmful.
Still, you are aiming to have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites.

Eventually you will end up with a colony of Nitrite eating bacteria too, but these take longer to grow.

You really need to do plenty of water changes whilst your tank is cycling in order to dilute the Ammonia and Nitrites.

You can also use Seachem Prime or Seachem Safe (the powdered version of Prime) which contains a binder which renders Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate non-toxic.
This should not be used instead of water changes, but used inbetween changes to alleviate the problems of Ammonia and Nitrite whilst the cycle is incomplete.

Sue posted a topic on how to cycle with fish here

Good luck.
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Offline Sue

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 06:39:01 PM »
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I was in a hurry to go and visit my mother and missed the bit about nitrate. Sorry  :-[

Have you measured the nitrate level in your tapwater? I have around 5ppm in mine and that is considered quite low compared to some areas which have 40ppm. You need to subtract the tap nitrate reading from the tank nitrate reading to be able to tell if bacteria are making nitrate.

And the nitrate tester is quite tricky to get right. The instructions with the API tester say to shake bottle 2 well, then shake the test tube well. One of the reagents in bottle 2 separates out and all that shaking is necessary to redissolve it in order to get good results.
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Offline Treacle eater

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 09:36:14 PM »
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Sue, Simon, thank you for your replies which have helped me so much. I have now, with help, changed the majority of the water - explaining I was allowed to change so much..as long as they had enough to swim upright was usefully idiot-proof for me 👍🏼

I'll test the tap water nitrates tomorrow and also retest the fish water.
I certainly suspect I have been guilt of over feeding even though I thought I was being careful, when I read the link..well, if a stomach is about the size of an eye, then with the granules I use..I should only put 4 of the granules in!!

Here's hoping my little fish are still there in the morning
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Offline Treacle eater

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 08:32:56 PM »
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Well, I tested my water again in the morning and the nitrites were between 0 and 0.25 the ammonia the same, so I'd did another almost full water change as you described.
I'm pleased to say this did the trick and now both values read zero.
Oh, and I tested my tap water for nitrates..it read between 0 and 5ppm.

I am thinking I should feed the fish every 2 or 3 days from now on, is this ok? And of course, keeping the amount even less than I was doing before.

This has been a good learning curve for me, thanks to your input I am not so scared doing the water changes as I was before. I know now I didn't agitate the substrate (if that what it's called) very well before. So I have learnt a few things at least.

I squeezed out the spongy thing (in the fish water). Can you tell me, there were small black bits plus tiny tiny gravelly bits within the sponge casing - I assume these are part and parcel of the filter and left in situ?

So many thanks for helping this newbie overcome first hurdles.
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Offline Sue

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 09:22:46 PM »
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Looking at the manufacturer's website, it seems as though the filter cartridge contains a sponge and another section with black and white bits. (it has been a while since I last looked so I wanted to make sure it was still the same  :) )

The black bits are carbon and the whitish bits are zeolite. Carbon adsorbs things onto its surface and gets full in a few weeks. Zeolite absorbs things as well, but unlike carbon it also absorbs ammonia - and like carbon it gets full and then stops absorbing ammonia. This is why they tell you to change it regularly.
You don't actually need carbon full time as its main uses are to remove medication after treatment has finished and to remove the brown colour that comes out of bogwood. Zeolite also absorbs medication (which is good once treatment has finished) but you don't want to continually add new zeolite as it will grab the ammonia before the bacteria have chance and they will starve. You can do one of two things.
You leave the carbon/zeolite mix in there permanently. They will both become exhausted (they probably are by now) but if you don't change them you won't be adding fresh zeolite. Should your fish ever get sick and you need to add a medication, they should be well and truly saturated and not remove any med.
Or you could remove the part of the cartridge that contains the black and gravelly bits (force it open if necessary) and get some filter sponge, any make, and cut it to fit. That way you won't have any carbon or zeolite, but twice as much sponge.
I haven't used carbon for years, not since I found out I don't need it.

Sponges need replacing when they fall apart or won't go back to shape when you squeeze them. If you decide to replace the carbon/ zeolite with another sponge they can be safely replaced one at a time with at least a month between. The rocks on the bottom of the tank which are the main home for the bacteria should be replaced a few at a time when they start to crumble, which should only be in a few years' time.


Now that you've got the ammonia and nitrite nice and low, be guided by their readings for water changes. You can probably do smaller daily changes to keep them both below 0.25. Once they go up slower and slower you can space the water changes out a bit. When you reach a day where you haven't needed to do a water change for a week and the readings are zero every day, that's when the tank will be cycled and you can do weekly maintenance water changes of 25 to 30%.

Your tapwater nitrate sounds nice and low. This is the least accurate of the testers - you need expensive lab equipment to get really accurate results - but it is good enough to show when your nitrate level goes up. As the ammonia and nitrite stay at zero between water changes you will find that nitrate goes up. This is the reason for doing weekly water changes once the tank is cycled, to remove the nitrate and other things like fish hormones that also build up.

For now, yes you can feed the fish once very 3 days but as the ammonia and nitrite readings start to drop (or at least slow down) increase to every 2 days, then every day.

You will get there  :)
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Offline Extreme_One

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 10:37:43 PM »
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Sue has said it all really, but I do have one thing to add...

Now, I promise you I'm not a Seachem rep or anything, they're not paying me a commission, but I have to reiterate my recommendation for Seachem Prime.
Or, if you can't get Prime, as I couldn't when I needed it, get Seachem Safe (the powdered version).

When you add it to your aquarium water it actually stops the Ammonia and/or Nitrite from being toxic to your fish.

You need to add only a very small amount for a 30L tank so, whilst it will seem an expensive outlay initially, it will last a long time and it will ensure your fish aren't suffering due to the Ammonia or Nitrite in the water.

The fact that you're testing your water for Ammonia and Nitrite speaks volumes : you understand that these are the things that can affect your fishes welfare. You want 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites and any higher are unhealthy.

I needed it when I added 8 new fish to my recently cycled aquarium and the existing bacterial colonies weren't able to cope with the extra bio-load.

I ended up with a massive Ammonia spike of around 3ppm on the 2nd day of adding the new fish and I was in real danger of losing all the fish in my aquarium.

I couldn't do anything to speed up the growth of the bacterial colony, all I could do was perform water changes and add the Seachem Safe in order to keep my fish healthy.

Thankfully I didn't lose a single fish and they're all still doing well over a month later. Of particular note, two of the newly introduced fish were Dwarf Cichlids which are particularly susceptible to poor water quality.

The amazing thing is, even though the Ammonia and Nitrite are rendered non-toxic they're still able to adequately feed the bacteria.

After 5 days the bacterial colony had grown sufficiently to take care of the additional Ammonia and I've got a new product in my arsenal, and now I'm only too happy to recommend it.

I know this all sounds like a sales pitch, but if you Google for Seachem Prime you'll find plenty of other fishkeepers offering similar endorsements.
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Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes

Offline Treacle eater

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 09:58:53 AM »
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Ok guys..your step by step holding of virtual hands is greatly appreciated  :)
Sue, the way to space these water changes is just what I needed..but also, the alert that the nitrates will increase as ammonia and nitrites go down. See, one doesn't always take these things in, when trying to absorb huge chunks of info right at the start of fishy adventures...

Simon, that sounds a really useful product to have right to hand in case things go pear-shaped..unless of course it can't be stored.. I'm glad you explain it wouldn't impact on the bacteria being able to use the ammonia and nitrite.

I am acutely aware by now, the tank that was offered me (this small biorb), is extremely limited in what it can offer the fish (and me). But as I was previously (don't laugh) almost scared by fish however small (no reason, and 100% illogical I grant you), then even my minute set up is a resounding success. And I'm fast replacing being spooked by fish with fascination.. 
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Offline Sue

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 10:08:30 AM »
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There is a well known condition among fish keepers called multi tank syndrome. It is characterised by the desire to own more and more tanks. Just to warn you that now you are becoming fascinated by fish you are in danger of contracting this condition  ;D The only thing that holds me in check is my husband......



Now that you are getting to know about tank maintenance, can I ask if you have male or female platies, or both?
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Offline Thor God Of Thunder

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 11:39:15 AM »
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get some of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1Kg-2-2lbs-BIOHOME-ULTIMATE-FILTER-MEDIA-BEST-FILTER-MEDIA-EVER-/221373997960?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item338aeb2388

the media comes with bacteria balls. the guy who sells the biohome media knows wtf hes talking about. I have had my tank for over 2 months now and I have never had nitrite or nitrate levels of any sort. I had a slighty planted aquarium with panda cory Malaysian trumpet snails and some gold fish.

He has a vid on youtube about Biorbs <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82d0gMD3WAU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82d0gMD3WAU</a> watch that that guy is a legend.
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Offline fcmf

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 01:31:05 PM »
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I concur with Extreme One - the Seachem Prime is great.  I had a bottle which I used as the water conditioner - it dechlorinates the water during water changes - and it lasted for many years.  When it eventually ran out, I didn't hesitate to buy the same again as my water conditioner/dechlorinator - and because of its beneficial, detoxifying effects on ammonia, etc.  I'd advise not just using it if things go pear-shaped but using it generally as your water conditioner/dechlorinator, safe in the knowledge that it has a detoxifying effect on ammonia, etc.  Even if you've got another brand of water conditioner/dechlorinator, it might be worth using Seachem Prime while you're doing your fish-in cycle and ammonia/nitrites will be present (as well as nitrates), and then you can always use up whatever water conditioner you're currently using once the fish-in cycle stage has passed.

It might well be possible to use Thor God of Thunder's suggestion as well as the Seachem Prime.  I've used Tetra Safe Start as well as Seachem Prime so assume that this would be similar.  However, I'd wait for others to confirm that before proceeding.

As for MTS, I thought my hankerings for a second tank had been nipped in the bud - until my mother posted me the latest edition of Practical Fishkeeping magazine, and the Odessa barbs, dwarf cichlids and Bolivian/Electric Blue Rams started tempting me...  So, even if you might think you won't suffer from it or that you've nipped it in the bud, the syndrome can be lurking away subconsciously and be easily reignited...
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Offline Treacle eater

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 09:00:06 PM »
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Wow, multi tank syndrome eh..it sounds highly contagious, though I may have inbuilt immunity on account of the fact I have only just started my journey of fish-affinity ...

I've been going cross eyed trying to will my plates to swim just a tad slower so I can tell which is which, as far as I can see, I have 1 male and 3 females. I hope that is ok..one day last week, I did see 3 tiny babies hiding in the artificial weed. But they were gone the next day.

I'll check that out on eBay, thank you Thor...I rely on all your help as I am otherwise flying blind here..

I am definitely going to get that Seachem Prime..I did get the Tetra dechlorinator (forget the name), but thanks, fcmf, I think I'll take your suggestion and save the Tetra for after things have cycled.
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Offline Extreme_One

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 10:16:28 PM »
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Apparently Livebearers (Platties, Mollies, Guppies) breed like rabbits!

So, you're either gonna need a larger tank, or another tank for the babies to grow on ... ;)

Or  ... you could see if your LFS would swap a male for a female ...

Mind you, I have heard that females can birth a long, long time after all sign of any male company.  :yikes:
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Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes

Offline Sue

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Re: 3.5 wks with fish, nitrites risen
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 10:35:09 AM »
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Your male:female ratio is fine, I wanted to make sure you had more females than males  :)
Though as Extreme says, you will have more babies even if you were to swap the male for another female. Female livebearers can store sperm for several months.
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