Fishy Friends And Clicks Groups ?

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Offline Ally2

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Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« on: August 29, 2016, 07:26:20 PM »
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Hi
I was wondering do fish that are bought together at the same time form a bond ?
If you add more of the same species do they get accepted into the old group or does it take time for them to make fishy friends ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 07:45:45 PM »
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Shoaling fish of the same species in our tanks usually form hierarchies within their shoals. Even placid shoaling species do this, it's just the feisty ones like tiger barbs and serpae tetras that make the setting up, then maintenance of the hierarchy so obvious to us. When we add more of the same species this disrupts the hierarchy and a new one has to be sorted out. With most fish this is done quickly and with a minimum of fuss (eg cories) but with some species the fish keeper needs to do things like removing the ones already there, rearranging all the decor then putting old and new fish in the tank together. With fish like tiger barbs it is probably a good idea to get them all at once.
Then there are territorial fish eg cichlids. Adding a new fish of the same type causes problems as the old fish would view the whole tank as 'theirs' and now they are expected to share 'their' space with someone else. They don't accept the newcomer readily.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 08:02:32 PM »
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I have noticed with my penguin tetra and glass bloodfin tetra that there is usually quite a calm environment, but perhaps with one fish chasing another sometimes. I've always thought this was a group heirarchy thing. It usually ends with them all back where they were in the first place, and none of them come to any harm.
The tiger barbs are a different matter. They are very obvious with their dominance, and when I have added more I have chosen younger/smaller barbs in the hope that they will be more submissive, and changed the decor just before adding the new ones. So far it seems that the same one (largest standard tiger barb) is still the boss.
I was previously worried with one of my temperate tanks. I'd had to slpit up my v. platies due to babies. I only had one male, so put him in a different tank. Eventually I added peppered cory and white cloud mountain minnows to his tank. I still rearranged the decor, and everything seems fine in that tank. Sometimes Daddy platy swims with the WCMM, sometimes he hangs around in some of his favourite spots on his own.
It can also be down to the personality of the individual fish rather than the species. Even some generally placid  species can have an individual who can be a bit of a nightmare. Don't forget that this is nature, they are a group of fish and there will usually be a heirarchy rather than a group of friends, even if we like to thing of them as such.  :)

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 09:05:03 PM »
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Hi
Fascinating ! What is the significance of moving the decor ? Do they think they have been put in a different tank ?
It's strange because they say when you get a new tank to add fish gradually but maybe you should add one species at a time ?
Ally

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 09:56:20 PM »
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I think that it's so that the previous fish don't see it as their tank and see the new fish as invaders.
Also, they spend more time exploring than hassling the new fish, and by the time they've finished exploring they've got used to having more fish in the tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishy friends and clicks groups ?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2016, 09:28:05 AM »
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they say when you get a new tank to add fish gradually but maybe you should add one species at a time ?
Ally

The adding new fish gradually is for fish-in cycling; with fishless cycling you can get most of your fish at the same time, leaving more sensitive species till the tank has been running a few months. This is what I did on Saturday when I added 18 hengel's rasboras, 18 ricefish, 4 peacock gudgeons and 2 stiphodons to my 180 litre tank at the same time. This wasn't a fishless cycle but the tank had been without fish for almost 3 months and I've been adding ammonia during that time to keep the bacteria fed, so it amounts to the same thing.

Fish-in cycling is different; you do have to start with a few fish then add more a few at a time. With this method, I would recommend that the first few additions be fish that don't go in for severe dominance issues or rigorously defended territories. That kind of fish are better added among the last fish for two reasons - the more fish already in the tank, the bigger the next batch can be so that a feisty shoaling species can be added in one shoal if left till just about last; with territorial fish, if there are already fish in the tank they see those other fish as part of the scenery rather than invaders. This technique is used when male bettas have tank mates - add the other fish first, then get the betta.

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