Think Fish Keepers Daily News.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1500 on: September 09, 2018, 07:46:06 PM »
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Sorry to hear that the day has been so awful, with a neon passing and having to euthanise the other one.
Thankfully, the day is not quite so bad as that - the one I thought had passed away of its own accord, as it was lying motionless and semi-on-its-side and semi-upside-down, turned out not to be dead when I tried to lift it out with a net, so it's actually the same fish that was euthanised. Currently, there are still 5 of the neon greens, but for how much longer, I'm not sure.

Cloudy-eyed tetra's entire eye is completely covered in white now and it's quite prominent. Then I noticed something I've never noticed before in my x-rays - a torn caudal fin. Therefore, I decided it was time for a course of eSHa 2000 and I planned to transfer him to the QT. I'd been a bit hasty about the QT's filter's demise and the purchase of a new one - I hadn't realised the filter flow had a turn-down option and it was on the lowest setting :-[ so now have it purely for use as a QT filter and ideal for just a small number of fish. Anyway, suffice to say that those tetras are impossible to catch in the net. I had volunteers from both rasboras species but the tetras are too clever at escaping. So, if he hasn't succumbed by the next water change at the end of the week, I'll make another attempt to catch him then for treatment when there's no decor in the way.

It feels like I could do with a period of calm in the fishtank... No-one would ever believe that my water quality is 0,0,20 consistently!

You might be needing to drink some of that vodka yourself.
Indeed - I might just do that! I also plan not to look into the fishtank again this evening, for fear of what else I might discover.


Online Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1501 on: September 09, 2018, 08:00:21 PM »
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Sorry for the misunderstanding. Still an unpleasant day for you, though one fish rather than two.

It seems like your tetra doesn't lack for energy when you're trying to catch him. I usually have to remove as much water as possible, as well as shift decor, when trying to catch fish. Yesterday I moved the dwarf puffers to a temporary tank so I could access some rocks in their tank, and those little puffers had me run ragged.

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1502 on: September 09, 2018, 08:17:26 PM »
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For me a torn fin is not an excuse for quaranteen... interested to get views on this. I just do extra water changes for a period to ensure  best possible water quality.

I'm starting to wonder if my approach is a bit old school...

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1503 on: September 09, 2018, 08:44:56 PM »
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My rice fish often have bits missing from their tail fins. I just leave them in the tank without medication. I am pretty sure it's caused by sparring in the males, and being chased by males in the females' tails. None of the other species are affected so it's not a disease.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1504 on: September 09, 2018, 09:39:45 PM »
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For me a torn fin is not an excuse for quaranteen... interested to get views on this.
It's more the fact that the entire eye is cloudy now and protruding considerably, while the torn fin (caused presumably by the almost incessant male sparring with the blind-eyed tetra) was "the final straw". Years ago, my goldfish developed a white covering over his eye which started protruding towards the end, among other problems - my biggest regret still is not having used the Waterlife Myxazin which had been underneath the tank as I think it had developed into a secondary bacterial infection but didn't know enough back then. I was assuming the same might be happening in the case of the x-ray tetra. The tetras are behaving as though constitutionally well, though, so if best not to bother quarantining, happy with that - it may well be that, following treating the fish in quarantine, the cloudy eye would just recur immediately on the first spat with the blind-eyed tetra in which case it would be relatively pointless (as was the case back in ?May and the cloudy eye has been present ever since).

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1505 on: September 10, 2018, 01:36:55 PM »
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All looking much more settled/established in the tank today - phew.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1506 on: September 10, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
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Glad to hear that  :)

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1507 on: September 10, 2018, 07:18:34 PM »
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Good news :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1508 on: September 10, 2018, 08:20:51 PM »
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Now I just need me to settle down too - I think my heart skips a beat every time I glance into the tank and see a piece of green plant/foliage against the filter intake, then I let out a sigh of relief when I realise it's not a neon green rasbora!


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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1509 on: September 10, 2018, 08:31:10 PM »
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That sort of mild panic takes a while to wear off.
Great to hear that your tank is settling down.  :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1510 on: September 11, 2018, 04:40:27 PM »
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I have had a surprise.

I have done a water change today, and decided to lift the wood with Bolbitis attached, which I don't usually do because the plant is so big and floppy. Underneath the wood was a pygmy cory  :o I thought they had all died, but no, I still have one left  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1511 on: September 11, 2018, 04:49:59 PM »
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Good grief, @Sue - how old might the pygmy cory be? Is it not years ago since you had them ie it may be that this one's been alive in there for several years without you knowing?! (...or is my ailing memory getting confused with timescales...?)

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1512 on: September 11, 2018, 05:01:17 PM »
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Consulting my book, I moved 7 cories from the 50 litre tank on 20 September 2016. These comprised 2 remaining from a group bought 21 September 2015 and 5 bought 27 August 2016. I can't remember now but presumably the two bought in 2015 were a lot bigger than the ones I'd bought only 3 to 4 weeks earlier.

Since they were moved into the main tank I have found a total of 3 bodies and one skeleton. The last body found was 16 July this year and I had assumed that was the last one. There are still 2 unaccounted for, which I've always assumed died and were consumed, and the skeletons fell apart so I didn't recognise what they were during a water change.
The trouble is I have so much wood in this tank that bottom dwellers are impossible to see.

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1513 on: September 11, 2018, 05:09:15 PM »
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That's amazing @Sue and such a lovely surprise.  ;D

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1514 on: September 11, 2018, 06:26:36 PM »
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Great news!!!  :fishy1:

Any plans afoot to restock with them?  :raspberries

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1515 on: September 11, 2018, 06:47:52 PM »
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I don't intend to get any more cories. When I restocked the 180 litre a few years ago I got fish from Asia, and I intended to stick to that area. When I closed the 50 litre I only moved the south American fish -  Boraras (2 maculatus and 4 briggitae/urophthalmoides, never sure which) and the cories - into the 180 litre because they had nowhere else to go. At least the cherry shrimp, which were also in the 50 litre, fit in with the Asian theme.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1516 on: September 11, 2018, 07:04:18 PM »
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I think the bororas also fit in with the Asian theme.  ;)

In my tank today, the neon greens have finally realised that chopped pea is food. I tried it in the QT a couple of times but only one seemed to realise what it was and the rest were too slow before it fell to the substrate, which they don't eat from.  Today, however, I fed it for dinner as I noticed 3/5 neon greens were constipated - whether that had anything to do with it or not (ie they instinctively knew it would cure their condition), they seemed to know immediately what to do when the chopped pea fell in and there was much excitement all round. The harlies normally get excited by it but, goodness, this neon greens' behaviour was on a whole new level.




Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1517 on: September 11, 2018, 07:12:52 PM »
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You are quite right  :-[ B. maculatus is from Malaysia, B brigittae from Borneo, and B. urophthalmoides from Thailand. I don't feel nearly as bad about them being in there now  ;D I have no idea why I thought they were south American  ???


Maybe the green neons saw the harlies starting to eat the peas and then they realised it was food  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1518 on: September 11, 2018, 07:24:52 PM »
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I have no idea why I thought they were south American  ???
I think it's very easy to see fish of similar size/stature as naturally compatible in a tank and consequently the fact that they're from different regions blurs into a less important characteristic - that's my theory on it, anyway.  :)

The neon greens have assumed the uppermost strata of the tank, relegating the harlies to the strata immediately below that, and the x-rays much lower down. Therefore, the neon greens get first pecking order at the food. On this occasion, I don't think it was learned behaviour from the harlies, unless the harlies got excited on hearing the chopping sound (which is altogether very possible) which pre-alerted the neon greens to food-time, or possibly more likely the neon greens have learned what lid-opening usually means and were going to eat whatever dropped in, whether it was edible or not.


Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1519 on: September 11, 2018, 07:29:59 PM »
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I had them under the Cory banner in my head... this has surprised me too... seems so obvious now!

Offline Helen

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1520 on: September 12, 2018, 07:38:57 PM »
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Just looking at boraras on seriously fish and quite enjoyed this comment under etymology:

"Boraras: anagram of the generic name Rasbora, in reference to the reversed ratio of abdominal and caudal vertebrae in this genus."

The Microdevario Kubotai haven't done well in my tank, so I don't think I'll be getting any more. Shame, I really liked them.

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1521 on: September 15, 2018, 06:46:41 PM »
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Loving watching the added dynamic in the tank of the lively green neons. As all the fish did when they were younger, they're loving swimming into the filter outflow and getting buffeted backwards, then repeating this over and over.

The smallest harley (Wee Harley), admittedly always my fave fish although I ought not to have a favourite, is currently hovering protectively above the snail food, which she dives down to peck every now and again when she thinks no-one's watching. The smallest green neon is swimming much lower down than usual and seems to have taken a liking for it or its smell too but, every time he gets close, Wee Harley keeps chasing him away.


Online Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1522 on: September 15, 2018, 07:28:01 PM »
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Sounds like everyone has settled in nicely.  :)
Any chance of some pictures?

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1523 on: September 15, 2018, 07:59:47 PM »
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I'm a bit embarrassed about an extremely bright/garish silk plant in the tank, so I'll need to pluck up the courage to do this!

Edited to add: the newbies are scarcely visible in this one; will try another.
Re-edited to add: only seem to be able to see one newbie in this one.

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1524 on: September 15, 2018, 09:31:26 PM »
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Great to see your gang.   :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1525 on: September 15, 2018, 09:50:53 PM »
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I think your tank looks fine  :) It doesn't matter if the plants are brightly coloured as long as the fish are happy to have somewhere to run and hide if that predator comes along. But they don't look as bright as you gave us the impression they were  ;D

Offline Helen

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1526 on: September 16, 2018, 12:07:04 AM »
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I think your tank looks lovely too. I'm not sure which plant you mean being garishly pink. None of the plants in your tank seem any brighter than some of mine which are natural. (I'm thinking mainly of my lotus)

I'm also very jealous of your Microdevario Kubotai.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1527 on: September 16, 2018, 02:11:04 PM »
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Thanks for the kind comments, folks.

I think a video probably is best for viewing the fish: https#://youtu.be/E89fAnhF6O0 [remove the # to watch]
Edited to add a second video, this time with some of the reflection removed: https#://youtu.be/QfDSy0LXE8c [remove the # to watch]

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1528 on: September 16, 2018, 02:30:19 PM »
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@fcmf I had to watch the clip several times to have a good look at all of your gang.
Your fish certainly look very perky. 
Great stuff ;D

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1529 on: September 16, 2018, 02:50:28 PM »
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Thanks, LF; second video now added as per link above, so should be easier to make the various gang members out.

Ah - to be able to add a shoal of cories to fill the bottom of the tank... but that would absolutely require an upgrade of tank size!


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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1530 on: September 16, 2018, 03:32:00 PM »
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Sounds like the perfect excuse for a bigger tank to me!  :raspberries

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1531 on: September 16, 2018, 04:58:17 PM »
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I agree.  ;D

Offline Helen

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1532 on: September 17, 2018, 09:57:46 AM »
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My fish have got very brave. I pruned the plants in the tank and at one point had both hands in up past my elbows. I'm fairly sure it was the rasboras, but I must have had half a dozen little fish "pecking" at my arm.

I have a jam jar for when I feed the fish with frozen food. I scoop up about an inch of tank water and drop the cube in, then when it's melted I pour the whole lot back in the tank. This morning, I scooped up water and put the jar down on the top of the tank to prod the cattapa leaf to sink, and then realised that someone was looking out of the jar at me! I think it was one of the female rainbows, but I was more intent on getting it back into the tank than confirming which of my fish was trying to hitch a lift!

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1533 on: September 17, 2018, 11:47:33 AM »
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Sometimes inquisitive fish can make tank maintenance slightly more difficult, but it's quite nice to have them giving little nibbles when you put your hands in the tank.  ;D

As for the jam jar incident, that's hilarious.   :rotfl:

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1534 on: September 17, 2018, 01:27:04 PM »
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In my experience, rasboras are very inquisitive, so I wouldn't be in the least surprised if they were pecking at your arm. Despite half the tank being emptied at a time during water changes so that the fish have the other half to hide in, my harlies love coming out to have a look at the half being cleaned and pecking at the siphon tube. During their QT time, the neon greens shoaled up tight; when in the main tank, they overtook/replaced the harlies in the inquisitive stakes during their first water change. The x-rays stay away at all costs!

Isn't it just adorable when a little fish face is looking at you, whether from the jar (as in your case in this instance), when in the bag from the LFS (when all fish faces are watching), or when unfortunately in a hospital tank? Exactly the same look as "puppy dog eyes".



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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1535 on: September 17, 2018, 02:05:03 PM »
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A word of caution about neon green rasboras and water changes. I accidentally sucked one up. When I netted it out of the bucket it must have been in a state of panic because it jumped out of the net. So I picked it up carefully with wet hands (I was in the garden so didn't have time to run in the house to get a paper towel). Amazingly, it was none the worse for its experience.

Offline Helen

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1536 on: September 17, 2018, 05:16:12 PM »
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The neon green rasboras are definitely experts at looking like foliage. Think that's why it took until I did some major pruning to confirm that I have none left.  :(

Looking at their preferred water conditions I can only guess that it is because my tank and other fish inhabitants are more or less blackwater fish, wereas the m. Kubotai prefer the faster flowing parts of the same waterways. (All the basic parameters suggest that they'd thrive in my tank). I would love to get more, but don't think it's fair. So I'll enjoy reading about @fcmf 's shoal with envy.  ;)

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1537 on: September 17, 2018, 05:48:46 PM »
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Oh @Helen sorry to hear about your neon green rasboras.

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1538 on: September 17, 2018, 06:22:50 PM »
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@Helen, I haven't exactly had much luck so far with mine either, despite also having water parameters in line with their requirements, optimum water quality, careful acclimitisation into QT and mature media in the QT filter. Sometimes there are factors outside our control, which can be very frustrating.

If you look back earlier in this thread, you'll see that I lost one following its first night in the QT, one ended up on the carpet (for reasons I'm still scratching my head over), and one died the day after moving into the main tank, so I only have 5 out of the original 8. So many losses so early on is the worst experience I've had in my tropical fishkeeping. Hopefully the remaining 5 will do ok but one has a very straggly caudal fin and one has no caudal fin beyond its caudal peduncle, so I'm not confident how the situation will pan out. [I've had helpful advice here about replenishing the shoal but taking into account my strong reluctance to introduce newbies without quarantining, not wanting any more bickering if the existing 5 subsequently acquire 3 more tankmates, not wanting to cause any more upheaval by re-quarantining these 5 with 3 newbies and then re-integrating them into the main tank, not being confident based on my experience so far that the 3 newbies would remain 3, seeing how crowded the upper echelon of the tank is now, I'm going to leave it at 5 for at least the foreseeable future.]

So you're very welcome to share my neon green rasboras by proxy fishkeeping, in much the same way as I enjoy your lovely big tank, but I certainly can't promise that it will be smooth.



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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1539 on: September 17, 2018, 07:21:40 PM »
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Dear All,
Please remember that we can't "control" nature.
We try our best to provide the best environments for our fishy friends, but we don't know what they have been through previously, or what state their general health is in.
We try our best, and it is still completely gutting when we have a loss.
I'm sure that many of us have been put off re-stocking certain species of fish due to problems, especially when we have done our research and our water parameters are smack bang in the middle of what is suggested by trusted sites and information.
We hear about people keeping fish for years in environments we thought were unsuitable, water parameters outside those we thought were ideal, and possibly even in tanks and/or environments very diferent to those we'd expect, or with other species we thought would be a problem.
Nature is a weird and wonderful thing, and even when we think we've done the right thing, there are problems. Sometimes we facepalm and learn from our mistakes, sometimes we can't get to the bottom of a problem, and keep beating ourselves up over what we could have done better.
Fish are awesome, and nature can be a bit of a bugger.
Big hugs to all having issues, and many thanks to those who have seen all of us through the ups and downs of being a newbie in the world of aquatics.  :)

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1540 on: September 17, 2018, 08:40:12 PM »
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Aw, what a lovely post, @Littlefish - and so true. It should be pinned somewhere on the forum or even turned into a poem!

On a brighter note, I thought I'd post a video of my newer nerite bulldozing its way through the snail food today:
https#://youtu.be/fHFMbOvYS24 [remove # to watch]

Offline Helen

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1541 on: September 17, 2018, 09:10:28 PM »
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 :rotfl: definitely bulldozing!

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1542 on: September 18, 2018, 07:15:14 PM »
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Bloodworm for dinner. Neon greens hadn't had this before but were, as usual, already pecking at the surface before the food even fell in. They paused for a moment to see if it was indeed food, then followed the x-rays' excited behaviour and devouring of the food. Something very cute about them swimming off with a bloodworm hanging out of their mouths almost the same length as themselves.
 :fishy1:

The neon green that enjoys surfing / swimming head-on into the filter outlet flow seems to have developed the art of doing pirouettes, perhaps as a consequence. He's the skinniest but has the most voracious appetite and has learnt how to grab food, then spin to change direction/course to avoid being chased by those who had hoped to get to it before him. Currently he and Wee Harley are hovering over the nerites' food dish in turns.

For those fortunate enough to have the space (and ), some good aquarium bargains here https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/products/aquarium/aquariums?brands=109  I'm almost salivating looking at the 240!

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1543 on: September 18, 2018, 08:26:22 PM »
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I've mentioned the cloudy-eyed x-ray tetra before and specifically in posts #1500-1504 of this thread. Here is a quick video clip of the eye which has evolved from a basic cloudiness to a thick white covering: https:#//youtu.be/74g7hiMg2uo [remove # to watch clip]. He's still behaving and eating normally, tail is growing back in quickly albeit that particular bit is no longer red, and he's likely to re-injure it as he and one of the other two males (who seems to be blind/injured in one eye) seem to be constantly sparring. On that basis, are views still that there's no need to treat other than through water changes to keep water in optimum condition?

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1544 on: September 20, 2018, 03:07:12 PM »
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Pro Shrimp has a lot of snails for sale again. Guess what I'm about to do......



Order placed for 2 x Clithon sowerbyana and 1 x Vittina waigiensis  :)

Online Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1545 on: September 20, 2018, 05:25:15 PM »
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Lovely.  :)
Please post pics when you get them.  ;D

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1546 on: September 20, 2018, 08:57:35 PM »
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Great; looking forward to seeing them.  :D

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1547 on: September 21, 2018, 07:06:33 AM »
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I've mentioned the cloudy-eyed x-ray tetra before and specifically in posts #1500-1504 of this thread. Here is a quick video clip of the eye which has evolved from a basic cloudiness to a thick white covering: https:#//youtu.be/74g7hiMg2uo [remove # to watch clip]. He's still behaving and eating normally, tail is growing back in quickly albeit that particular bit is no longer red, and he's likely to re-injure it as he and one of the other two males (who seems to be blind/injured in one eye) seem to be constantly sparring. On that basis, are views still that there's no need to treat other than through water changes to keep water in optimum condition?

No I don't think treatment is required here @fcmf basically because I don't think the problem can be treated... I don't know for sure but I have always seen stuff like this as the fish equivalent of cataracts.... don't know if I'm right with this though? If the tail is growing back ok then also no treatment required here  :)

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1548 on: September 22, 2018, 10:53:21 AM »
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Thanks, @Matt, although human cataracts can be treated, so perhaps there's a fish-equivalent treatment. I'll monitor the situation as I think it's a case of treatment might well help (but it's erring on the too-late-to-solve territory now) .v. not wanting to upset the equilibrium in the tank by removing this fish for treatment and potentially it recurring if re-engaged in another of the daily battles with his shoal-mate.

The two snails have been sleeping side-by-side for much of this week. During the water change, I noticed that the wood has got lots of what I thought were the white grains of the Tana sand (mix of beige and white grains) but which I'm questioning now and wondering if they're snail eggs - like sesame seeds and difficult to remove as they're embedded in the wood but not unsightly. The newer nerite spends her algae-eating time on the wood which would account for those if they are snail eggs, while the older nerite spends his algae-eating time on the glass and filters.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #1549 on: September 22, 2018, 11:16:11 AM »
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Those sesame seed like things are nerite eggs. I have a lot of them on the wood in my tank.


Human cataracts are caused by degeneration of the lens inside the eye and the only 'cure' is to remove the natural lens and replace it with a plastic one. Having recently had this operation, I have read up a lot about the condition. The same can happen to a fish's eye, and unless we perform the same operation there is no cure. I doubt whether it is even possible to operate on a fish's eye.

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