Think Fish Keepers Daily News. [2016-2019]

Author Topic: Think Fish Keepers Daily News. [2016-2019]  (Read 207814 times) 1923 replies

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #880 on: September 22, 2017, 05:13:46 PM »
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£3 well spent  :)

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #881 on: September 22, 2017, 06:37:15 PM »
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@Sue and a new skill. I will be watching out for reports of 'bank jobs' with a neat hole cut in the window, vault empty, the tank in the bank managers office nicely siphoned and the fish fed.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #882 on: September 22, 2017, 07:09:11 PM »
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It does make you wonder. My grandfather was a glass cutter by profession, he worked for Pilkington Brothers (now Pilkington Glass)

Only he died 9 years before I was born.



Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #883 on: September 23, 2017, 12:01:00 PM »
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I possess some skills/traits/mannerisms of my grandfather who died the year before I was born, but which skipped a generation, so it's altogether possible that glass-cutting is a genetic skill in your family line, @Sue.

Over the course of 24 hours, my nerite snail managed to cover about half of the substrate in poo. I wasn't able to get a water change done until a few days later, by which time the nitrates had gone up from their usual <20ppm up to 40-50ppm for the first time ever! No wonder he was found perching on dry land yesterday, on the very top of the heater. His bioload would appear to be far heavier than the cumulative effect of 11 fish...

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #884 on: September 23, 2017, 12:55:05 PM »
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Wow!! :yikes:

Hope your nitrates stay low over the next few days and there isnt something else nasty as play  ???

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #885 on: September 23, 2017, 01:49:22 PM »
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@fcmf after having a tank for breeding snails, now having a tank for the baby BNs, and adult BNs in 2 tanks, I can say that all are all quite high up there on the poop producing scale.  :o
Constant grazing = constant pooping   ::)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #886 on: September 25, 2017, 01:25:19 PM »
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Mixed news from the river tank today.
I found a panda garra floating on the surface of the tank today. The body has been removed and disposed of appropriately. :(
I think it may have been one of the two pandas who were regularly sparring for dominance. I'm guessing that things got quite rough.
Although I'm disappointed about the loss of a fish, the tank is now peaceful and none of the other pandas seem to be fighting.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #887 on: September 25, 2017, 01:45:21 PM »
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I'm sorry to hear that  :(

If there were two of them sparring, it could well be that one came out on top at the expense of the other.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #888 on: September 25, 2017, 08:04:45 PM »
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All of the panda garras look alike, so it's difficult to tell them apart.
After I found the deceased fish I tested the water, just in case, but results were 0/0/<40 as usual. I did a 20% water change anyway, even though the last one was on Friday, again just to be on the safe side.
All fish spent the rest of the day pottering around until dinner time.
After dinner two of the pandas had quite a battle, so I don't know if they were the two original sparring fish, or if one of the other pandas is trying to battle for dominance. The fight lasted around 15 minutes, and things have settled back down again.
I'll have to keep a close eye on the situation as I don't want any more problems.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #889 on: October 03, 2017, 09:25:09 AM »
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I read something yesterday that is worth using to help explain certain problems in stocking tanks.

The questioner asked about keeping a pair of dwarf gouramis in a 40 litre tank. Several people said no, it's too small, but someone else said it would be fine provided there were lots of plants so they can't see each other. Then the real fish expert replied. I can't quote him directly (copyright) but the gist of his comment was that fish make two sorts of chemical, pheromones which are understood by fish in the same species, and allomones which are picked up by all the other fish in the tank. Aggressive fish like dwarf gouramis send out lots of aggressor signals, the filter can't remove them so the other fish live in constant fear. Then he used a comparison that would mean something to everyone.
If you shut a cat in a room which has a vicious dog chained in one corner, the cat will pick up the signals from the dog and although the dog couldn't reach the cat, the cat would be terrified.


I'm going to use that to explain things in future  :D

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #890 on: October 03, 2017, 07:20:52 PM »
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I've heard this one before used as a reason to do water changes even if parameters are perfect... I have zero nitrates at every test but still do a 20% water change :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #891 on: October 03, 2017, 07:29:51 PM »
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Once upon a time, many years ago, I worked in a hospital pathology lab, the chemical pathology lab to be precise. You would be amazed at the number of things we tested urine for. And that was just chemical pathology, there were other pathology labs as well.
If we excrete these chemicals, fish excrete similar things. And all the things we didn't test for in the lab. We may grow bacteria to 'eat' the ammonia made by the fish but they don't 'eat' anything else. So these other things build up in the water between water changes.
So yes, it is these other things excreted and secreted by the fish that is the reason we do water changes. Nitrate is just an indicator that everything is building up but if we have lots of plants so that nitrate doesn't build up, we still need to do those water changes.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #892 on: October 04, 2017, 05:32:17 AM »
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@Sue and @Matt This is interesting, following on from this logic. The consensus view seems to be that activated carbon is not requires in filters unless meds or tannins are being removed. I wonder if is a argument for?

Incidentally I currently have an issue with a newly introduced (hopefully) male Severum to a temporary heavily stocked tank and have noticed that he is barely eating. I have been watching him with growing concern over the last week. His not being chased or hiding/avoiding nor is he being out-competed as they are getting are getting multiple feelings of four different food types, floating, sinking and two slowly sinking so everybody gets a good chance of getting some.
He is currently about 5cm in a tank with three 15+cm females and a raucous collection of growing other cichlids both larger and smaller than him. Water quality is good and is generally changed twice weekly.
it would be an unscientific guess but I was wondering if a 1/2kg of carbon in the sump might have some effect?

Offline Matt

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #893 on: October 04, 2017, 07:29:26 AM »
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This probably needs someone far more knowledgeable as chemistry than me to answer but as I understand it, activated carbon adsorbs organic compounds, so that logic would stand.  What is your water change regime like on the tank?  Using your example, it would also stand that after a big water change the fish should feel better as the chemicals in the water would be reduced.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #894 on: October 04, 2017, 09:39:15 AM »
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There are also inorganic things excreted by animals - we tested urine for sodium and potassium for example.

But there is a balance to be met, especially with tanks that have live plants. Many of the fish's organic waste products provide the plants with fertiliser. Carbon would remove everything, meaning we would then have to add chemicals back to the tank to feed the plants. The ideal is to keep the chemicals that affect the fish to a minimum while still allowing chemicals that hardly affect the fish at all to be present in enough quantity to feed the plants.


And there is the other reason for water changes - plants need minerals, and the tank needs carbonate to keep the pH stable. These get used up and need to be replenished. Water changes are the simplest way of ding this.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #895 on: October 04, 2017, 06:53:00 PM »
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And there is the other reason for water changes - plants need minerals, and the tank needs carbonate to keep the pH stable. These get used up and need to be replenished. Water changes are the simplest way of ding this.
This is something I've never quite understood. If the carbonate/KH in tapwater is 2, yet the KH in a tank is 3 due to having Tufa/limestone rock in it, then surely each weekly water change slightly dilutes/reduces the KH? Is it that, if the weekly water change didn't take place, the tank water would naturally reduce from 3 to 2 and potentially even down to 1 as the carbonate would get used up?

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #896 on: October 04, 2017, 07:00:54 PM »
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In this scenario then yes, water changes will lower the KH.

I have KH 3 but I don't have any calcium carbonate in my tank (limestone, tufa, coral etc). I know that if I don't do water changes my pH will crash. But weekly water changes keeps the KH high enough to prevent a crash.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #897 on: October 04, 2017, 07:49:28 PM »
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@Matt The tank is currently producing 25ppm of Nitrate per week, it was just over 34ppm/week but adding plants has I think caused the reduction. I deliberately reduce Nitrates back to 20ppm each change with on average a 40-45% change twice weekly. I have virtually no dKh (0.5) and dGh is 2.5 so I am diligent on changes, tank pH is stable at 6.2. Since adding hydroponic terrestrial plants to this tank as well I have started adding a 1/4 dose of nitrate free liquid fertiliser.
The thoughts on the carbon were largely clutching at straws as I can't see an obvious reason for the Severum not eating, everybody else is literally hovering food down and he just sits in the middle of the pack watching food pass him by. I'm am feeding 4 times a day because of the number of rapidly growing babies.
The fish is otherwise looking fine, active, good colour, free swimming and if it weren't for the fact that I'm watching him during feeding time I would have said he completely settled. Maybe he is snacking between meals (kidding the others finish every scrap within 60 seconds)
I'm not actually panicking just yet, given his otherwise good condition I will give him more time in case it's a settling in thing.

Offline Sue

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #898 on: October 04, 2017, 07:55:08 PM »
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Is he doing a betta? Bettas are notorious for not eating what the fishkeeper gives them if it is different from what they are used to. It takes them a while to realise it really is food, or at least food to their taste. In the case of bettas, they do start eating before they starve.

Have you tried the fish on live/frozen food? Most fish will eat that when they won't eat anything else. i don't mean to feed bloodworm etc exclusively, just to see if he will eat some then you'll know he can eat.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Think Fish Keepers Daily News.
« Reply #899 on: October 05, 2017, 05:00:38 AM »
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Thanks @Sue I will try that, everybody else will love that I'm sure. Let's hope they don't cotton on and all start wanting special treatment :) I will also ask what the shop feeds as well.

 


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