Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping => General Fishkeeping Chat => Topic started by: MarquisMirage on January 12, 2017, 01:09:09 AM
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While we're waiting to see if moving will happen in the next month or so the big tank project is on hold. So I'm looking into a smaller project in the interim.
Got a free 30 l tank today. No equipment with it and it's plastic. If I had to do something with it it'd be cold water only (Shiners! Too small.) because I'd be scared of a heater melting it. As it's lightweight I may just keep it around as an emergency tank.
I have a couple of other toes in the water (not literally) inc. a 60 l tank with a 60 cm internal length which I should be picking up on Saturday. There may possibly be a slightly larger tank on the table too. My wife, who is the most lovely and kindly best wife ever (dictated), has pretty much given me final veto depending on viewing of the aquaria.
Options for projects bouncing around in my head are:
1) Apistogramma agassizii and pencilfish (taking my own advice).
2) Celestial pearl danio species only.
3) Papua New Guinea - Peacock Goby/Forktail Blue Eyes/Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish (dependant on tank volume).
4) Using a tank to house the African dwarf frogs and a new halfmoon dumbo betta.
Whatever I choose it will be a planted tank using plants that can eventually be used to plant the big tank when it's time. There'll be some aquascaping going on. All up in the air right now. Hopefully there'll be some room for DIY in there. :)
There'll be photos so let me know what you like the sound of or alternatives that may be fun. Arggh! Way past my bedtime.
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Oh wow - glad we have another MTS person in our midst. :)
The 30-litre plastic tank is probably best kept as an emergency tank. I had a plastic one, which was fine with a heater (I had similar concerns to you but another member on here reassured me), and which I found I had in frequent use in summer 2015 when my pygmy cories weren't faring well.
As for the 60-litre tank, I'd be inclined not to buy any new livestock until once you've established whether or not you're moving, to avoid any unnecessary shock/stress on the fish. Of course, you could decide now which of your 4 options to go with and focus on the aquascaping and possibly part of option 4 (ie move the African dwarf frogs in there), then, if/when you've moved, stock accordingly. Option 3 sounds particularly interesting and colourful to me and I'd love to see photos if that's the option you go for. An option 5 might be killifish which I find very attractive too but your Option 3 is standing out to me by a long way.
:fishy1:
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All the options sound good to me except for half of option 4. I would not put a betta in with frogs. Been there, done that, and would never ever do it again.
Bettas are greedy bendy fish and will eat all the frogs' food before they can find it. Even hiding it in a cave won't deter a betta as they'll find a way in. Mine got into an upside down terracotta plant pot with the tiniest holes cut in the rim, and a stone over the hole on the bottom of the pot.
Frog's have extremely poor eyesight and will mistake the betta for food. I found my betta frantically swimming round the tank with a frog clamped to his tail. He ended up with severe finrot from the site of the bite. The frogs were moved into my quarantine tank after that.
I personally like the apisto/pencilfish option as I've had both fish, and I also like peacock gudgeons - I currently have 5 of them.
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@fmcf and @Sue
I'm going to fully cycle whichever tank I use first before adding fish so that should be plenty of time before livestock will go in.
I should explain the Options a bit more.
Option 1 would probably be the least exciting as far as the aquascape goes for a small tank. It would be a densely planted Amazonian setup. Gentle flow. I'm leaning towards an Amazonian setup in the big project tank when I get it so may wait until then.
Option 2 would be aquascaped to look like plants on a volcanic background using fiery red rock and red/black gravel mix. An unplanted bonsai wood. The cpd's would then be like dinosaurs in this volcanic terrain. Gentle flow.
Option 3 was inspired by Sue's pretty peacock gudgeons (she has really pretty fish overall). The larger tank looks like it may be 90 l in which case it will be them and the forktails only. Which should still be interesting enough. Some interesting species of plants come from that area too. In my head this will be a heavily planted tank with large rounded pebbles (around 5-10cm) with Unipac coarse Samoan as the substrate gravel. Driftwood. Moderate flow.
Option 4 is mainly aimed at the 60 l tank. What would happen is some DIY and the tank will be halved. The frogs will go in one half and the beta in the other. The different halves will be aquascaped separately but with a common theme (tbd). Gentle flow.
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I have to say you've got some great ideas and I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide to go for, the volcano aquascape sounds very cool, similar to an idea for what I might do in my 3 foot tank which I think I will partition into two... Good luck with it all and don't forget pics! 8)
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Option 4 is mainly aimed at the 60 l tank. What would happen is some DIY and the tank will be halved. The frogs will go in one half and the beta in the other. The different halves will be aquascaped separately but with a common theme (tbd). Gentle flow.
In that case I withdraw my reservations :)
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There is a lot of love for peacock gudgeons, they are very pretty fish. :)
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So excited. Going to get the tank/s tomorrow. :D Pics then of the bare tanks and notes of any extras the tanks may come with. Final decision on with option to go for when I know the tank base size.
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Tank day....hooray.... :cheers:
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Ah we love a tank day here, I've missed this "surrogate excitement" I get when another member gets new stuff ;D
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I'm excited too - MTS by proxy (phrase coined by Anne) - looking forward to seeing the pics later.
;D
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OK! So here's what I got.
First a 60L Fluval tank in good condition. T5 or T8 (not sure how to tell which is which) single tube lighting. Not sure which range it's from. It came with an Interpet PF1 filter which just about covers the tank if you want a low flow.
Secondly a Fluval Roma 90 with cabinet. Again with T5/T8 lighting but double tube. The tank etc. is in great condition. This one didn't initially have a filter but when I asked the kindly gentleman gave me an Eheim Liberty 200 hob filter. At this point I was finding it hard not to squee in excitement. It can handle a tank up to 200L so should do fine. Need to DIY the hood and filter a bit but it's all good.
Neither of them came with heaters. Nor did either of them come with polystyrene underlay (advice on where to get some or alternatives please!).
Both tanks have a footprint of 60 cm by 35 cm so I'm going with options 2 and 3. Papua New Guinea first in the 90L. :D
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Lights - measure the width of the tubes. If they are 1 inch across - ie eight eighths - they are T8s. If they measure five eighths, they are T5s. Do the tubes have anything written on them at all? As a general rule, fluorescent lighting should be replaced every 12 months.
Underlay - are the tanks flat bottomed or floating bases? The trims make them look like floating bases in the photos.
If there is a gap between the base glass and the cupboard and the tank stands on the trim, you don't need anything under the tank. But if the whole of the bottom glass is in contact with the cupboard you do need something. I have used both polystyrene tiles and foam base mats designed for aquarium use. The latter are of course more expensive.
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Yeah, new tanks. ;D
Please post lots of pics during set up, I'm really looking forward to seeing these. :)
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Very exciting - keep us posted on the step-by-step progress. ;D
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Great stuff and some smart lookin tanks 8)
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Cleaned and sterilised the new tanks. Used a steam cleaner which was interesting. Usually I'd go with a bleach solution. Tested for leaks and everything is OK.
Got a 200 W heater for the 90 l which should be plenty and have a spare on the way. Purchased a couple of Fluval Aquasky LED's to replace the T8 bulbs (thanks @Sue ). Picked up a teeny tiny EF-150 external filter from All Pond Solutions. Should provide plenty of filtration. On the whole I paid less than the Fluval Roma 90 would cost new. Although it's not looking like a total bargain anymore I'm confident the equipment I've got for it is better than the standard set.
All the hardscape has been purchased already or is on its way for the 90 l. Pretty much as described in previous post. Will be putting it in place over the weekend. Will be making some DIY caves for the gudgeons. :)
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Will be making some DIY caves for the gudgeons. :)
In my experience, peacock gudgeons like tight little caves. I'd make a few caves of differing sizes and let them choose. Since it's the male that guards the eggs, you'll need at least one cave per male, more being better to give them some choice.
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Not all of the hardscape items have arrived in time. Will update next when I have hardscape done.
Here's the hardscape. Hardscape is inspired by photos I looked up of streams in Papua New Guinea.
Frosted the background glass of the tank using some window film applied to the outside. You can see some water in the tank as I'm spraying to keep the Tropica substrate damp.
Next up will be the softscape. Plants were ordered yesterday. Next pic when it's setup.
PS. Does anyone know why my pics keep going southern hemisphere?
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I have no idea about the photos. I know that portrait format often appear on their sides - ie as landscapes - in the thumbnails but when you click on them they are the right way round like the photo of your tank a few posts earlier.
But as for why your landscape photos are upside down in the thumbnail but the right way up when you click on them .... ???
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I'm liking your set up so far, and looking forward to seeing the next pics. :)
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I've been waiting to softscape the aquarium before doing an update but sourcing the plants has been a pain. Here's what the aquarium looks like at the moment in its incomplete state. Sorry about the bad quality of the pic. I'm not much of a photographer. When it's all setup I'll ask my wife to get out her big lens Canon picture maker thingee.
I've been using fertiliser weekly as well as the Tropica Plant Growth substrate and daily liquid CO2 on top. Both the fertiliser and CO2 are from Easy-Life. I have no idea what the par rating on the pair of Fluval Aquasky LED's are but they seem to be doing the trick. I got a timer for both lamps and they now switch on and off at the same time every day which should help the plants get into a groove.. I've chosen plants for this softscape to look other worldly and lush as a rainforest. I decided not to carpet as I'd lose the stream feeling.
To the left and right at the back there is limnophila sessiliflora. It's been in the tank since the 26th Jan and is taking off well. It's grown over 2 inches already and has side shooted with alarming speed. A couple of more weeks and I'll clip the stems and thicken up the bunch. This is not a native species in Papua New Guinea (PNG)but is similar to some described plants.
Between them is a single bunch of ceratopteris thalictroides. It's also been in since the 26th and has also settled in. Not as fast growing as the limnophila but it's gained an inch. It's described as ranging across SE Asia including PNG. More will be added when it arrives including as a floating plant.
Next is a hedge of fontinalis antipyretica. It adds a contrasting shade to the other greens. It adds depth by defining the mid ground being in front of the driftwood to the left and behind the driftwood and the large rock to the right. At both ends it curves in towards the front corners of the tank. As a moss it's usually tied to a stone or wood but I'm using it as weighted bunches directly in the gravel. It's slow growing but has turned greener since I put it in on the 31st Jan. It's described as ranging across SE Asia including PNG.
You'll have to wait to see what will fill the gap between the limophila and fontinalis when it arrives. It's no great rare plant so don't build your hopes up of seeing a unicorn. It should be here on Tuesday next week.
The hardscape has been tweaked on the left side by moving the larger pebbles forward. The driftwood has been moved so that inquisitive fish can pass under it. My DIY caves have been placed in the tank. See if you can find them. :) There are 3 in total. Now that there's water in the tank you can see the green tint to the large rock better.
I've not started cycling yet. I seem to have picked up either planaria (proper planaria, not the detritus worms I called planaria before) or small leeches with the plants as well as the usual passenger snails. I'm waiting for the final plants to arrive. When they're put in the tank and have settled in I'm going to dose the aquarium with clout. Then I'll begin cycling seeding from filter material from the tank upstairs. I have Kleen Off ammonia. I forgot to not sniff it and it's the real thing.
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Your tank looks fantastic.
Well done.
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The tank is looking good.
I have Kleen Off ammonia. I forgot to not sniff it and it's the real thing.
I bet that hurt! Or is it just me that gets a stabbing pain in my nose if I sniff ammonia ???
My DIY caves have been placed in the tank. See if you can find them. :) There are 3 in total.
OK, I give up. Is one of them the white thing behind the pebbles on the right?
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It didn't burn my nose, Sue, as I didn't get a high enough dose. :) The caves are behind the fontalis on the left (if you zoom in you can see a curve there), between the wood and rock, and the final one is behind the fontalis to the right of the rock.
You can't see them clearly from the front but by viewing at certain angles you can see all the way through them.
My wife let direct sunlight hit my tank for 6 hours on Sat. outside of the normal light cycle. It's played havoc with the limnophila causing some growth to turn white. I've trimmed what I can and hopefully the normal cycle will save them over the next few days,
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Lots of updates!
My wife stripped down her shrimp tank around the same time I started this project and I'm now cycling her tank for her. When the cycle is complete Darkness and the amano shrimp from my daughters room will move in. The aim for the tank in my daughters room is to leave the white clouds in there for now and eventually use it as a quarantine tank.
I've started collecting the bits for the celestial pearl danio volcano tank and should have everything together by the last week of Feb. A totally different feel to the PNG aquarium. Hardscape pics when it's there.
We've decided to wait two or three years before moving. So I ordered a new aquarium. Rather than the 60 inch by 24 inch by 24 inch with sump I ordered the same but minus a foot in length. My wife said we could always get another bigger tank when we've moved on top of this one. I do love her so. Aquarium should be here in around 6-8 weeks. So when the other aquaria are cycled.
On this project I have all the plants in now and pic included. The last plant was Hygrophila Polysperma sp 'Rosanervig'. Hygrophila Polysperma also grows naturally in PNG. It's been in the tank since Tuesday so too early to tell if it's really taken yet. I'll have to wait to see as there were a lot of holes in the leaves when the arrived. Rosanervig can literally be translated as pink veins. It will test the iron levels and light levels to see if I can get the colour in the top foliage.
As you can tell from the photo the limnophila sessiflora has taken a lot of casualties. It was weakened after the sunlight exposure and then an onslaught of snails followed. I've been warring on the snails and hopefully I've saved the remaining few stems. Fortunately the fontalis and ceratopteris seem to be unphased by the proceedings.
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Wow, exciting times. ;D
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This should hopefully be the second to last post covering this project. :D
This photo is my wife's new layout with Darkness in it. The fishless cycle took twelve days following the technique on this website. There're also five amano shrimp in there although you can't see them.
The snail war has been won and I've also treated against planaria in the PNG tank. I used Clout for the planaria which turned all of the water in the aquarium the blue colour you get when your nitrites are at zero. Not a treatment I think I'd use with fish in the tank. I'm looking for a good general quarantine treatment. So far eSha 2000 seems to be the one to go for.
Ammonia and nitrites were zero in my tank this morning. Dosed full amount of ammonia. Fingers crossed for tomorrow...
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Darkness is looking quite spectacular in his set up.
Great stuff.
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It's the hokey pokey for Darkness... My new fish arrived! Love a fish day. :D Received six lovely peacock gobies and about a dozen forktail blue eyes. At just over a cm the forktails are barely more than fry so I put them in Darkness' new home to grow out. Darkness has gone back upstairs for the interim.
The fishless cycling of the aquarium took twelve days. I think the cycling of the nano tank and this one were aided by mature bacteria on the plants added.
With the fishies this project is finished. Included are some photos of the new additions. The peacock gobies aren't at their best colour but that's to be expected with the stress of a move. For the forktails you can see some blue eyes but their bodies meld in with the background.
Let me know if you want to see any particular photos of aspects of the nano tank or the PNG tank and I'll add them here. Also please let me know if you're interested in following the setup for the volcano aquarium. It's a just for fun setup and not following biotopes etc. If enough people want to see it I'll set up a new thread.
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All looks and sounds very exciting indeed. Looking forward to seeing pics once they're settled in.
[quote author=marquismirage link=topic=2863.msg32765#msg32765 date=1487881083
Let me know if you want to see any particular photos of aspects of the nano tank or the PNG tank and I'll add them here. Also please let me know if you're interested in following the setup for the volcano aquarium. It's a just for fun setup and not following biotopes etc. If enough people want to see it I'll set up a new thread.
[/quote]
DEFINITELY!
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Oops, missed adding the pics. Thanks fcmf. :)