Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping => General Fishkeeping Chat => Topic started by: Fiona on December 25, 2015, 08:50:29 PM
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Popped into MA just before xmas and was delighted to discover they were stocking rainbow gobies. I'd previously researched them as I really wanted some and I now have a pair but I think I'll get another female.
They're doing a great job on the brown algae which is still a bit of a pain and are settling in nicely. They like courgette too it seems, eating the green skin rather than the flesh and they do eat catfish sinking pellets too. I've also noticed them hoovering up any flaked food that sinks to the floor.
The male seems to have decided he owns the front centre of the tank where there's a large flat pebble I use to feed the otos on. He doesn't seem bothered by the either the otos or the corys but does chase the female off. I'm going back to MA Saturday so I'll have a chat with one of the guys there who I know owns some himself. He's got 2 pairs so I'll see if he's noticed any territoriality in the ones he's got.
Oh the other thing is that the males dig... a lot, thankfully he's sticking to the front of the tank which doesnt have plants.
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Lovely, interesting fish.
I have three, well I have three of what my LFS had labeled Rainbow Gobies but I'm not 100% certain which of the Stiphodons mine are.
Mine are much more striking coloured now they've settled in, they were quite drab to start with.
What colouration are yours showing? Is there a striking difference between the male and the female?
I think I have three females, but I'm not sure.
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Now my stiphodons have settled in, I think they are atropurpureous. The male looks just like the photo on Seriously Fish. They like digging too, mainly under the flat stones :)
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I've found an image that shows what mine look like, female is on the left. My male is a bit more colourful. The guy in MA said the colours will develop more as the male matures.
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They look nice fish.
I asked at my next to nearest MA about stiphodons, after reading on here about people getting theirs from MA, and they didn't know what I was talking about ???
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Couple of photos of mine, its hard to do them justice really.
They sometimes have a flash of electric blue on their cheeks but they don't show in these photos.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/12374892_10153858075383470_4079587895375775912_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/1277267_10153858075428470_6766906841923227640_o.jpg)
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They've got cobalt blue gobies listed in their fish database Sue, this was the first time I'd seen rainbow gobies since I started fish keeping though.
I know what you mean Simon, the males don't really show their colours until they move. You got any aggression issues with those males? Mine keeps chasing the female away.
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I don't have any aggression issues at all, they all coexist quite happily.
The only small issue is that one of the Gobies does insist on straying into the coconut nest occasionally, only to be chased away by The Duchess.
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They've got cobalt blue gobies listed in their fish database Sue.
I'd seen them there which is why I went to the branch but couldn't find any so asked. The chap I spoke to didn't really know what I was talking about but it is the manager's job to order fish off their list so if he had never ordered any the staff would never have seen any.
The chap at the shop I got my stiphodons from said they were cobalt blue gobies, which are S semoni according to Seriously Fish. But in the flesh they look more like S atropurureus, blue neon gobies because of the spots in the fins. I definitely have one male, but I can't decide if the other is a female or sub-dominant male. I only have 2 because that's all that were left.
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Nice looking fish Sue. I've never seen the manager in the MA nearest to me, the guys seem to take it in turns to order fish, they say they like to try and order fish that other shops in the area don't have, as well as ordering old favorites.
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I'll try to photograph the stiphodons then we can all have a game of "ID the fish" ;D
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... then we can all have a game of "ID the fish" ;D
I'd love to hear opinions on mine.
I'm fairly sure now that mine were labeled correctly as Rainbow Gobies (Stiphodon Ornatus) and after studying the photos over at Seriously Fish I think I probably have at least one male with the following images looking really close to mine and are captioned as "Adult male, neutral mood"
(http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Stiphodon-ornatus-LC-2.jpg)
(http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Stiphodon-ornatus-LC-3.jpg)
Even though my earlier photos aren't showing the blue cheeks would you agree?
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Practical Fishkeeping Feb 2016 edition has an article on these very fish - pgs 8-13.
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I'll have to see if I can find a copy in a shop.
Here are some pics of mine to ponder over. Are they Stiphodon purpureus or Stiphodon semoni.
The more colourful one, a definite male, was being very photogenic; that is the one labelled A. The other was grazing at the back of the decor and I only managed a couple of fuzzy shots. This is labelled B. I'm still undecided if B is a female or a sub dominant male.
According to SF:
Anal fin - semoni have a white margin to the anal fin, purpureus has whitish margins to the anal and caudal fin. Fish A has pale blue margins.
Dorsal fins - semoni have mostly non-pigmented, purpureus dusky to black. Mine have palish, spotted dorsal fins. Outer edges of dorsal fins yellow to red in purpureus - mine are pink in certain lights (see pic A 2).
Dorsal surface - purpureus has black edges on scales giving a reticulated appearance. SF doesn't mention this for semoni but their photos show thin black edges to the scales. My fish A has thick black edges to its scales.
So some characteristics of both species ???
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The PFK article describes gobies/stiphodons as "near impossible to breed" (all sold are wild-caught), "demanding in their requirements" (specifics on this in the article), and that they fall roughly into two types - the more sluggish variety have a much larger first/frontal dorsal fin with a long and curved leading edge "possibly adorned with a trailing, erect 'antennae'" but the more hardcore ones have a rounded dorsal fin without "an adorning 'whisp'".
There are now 36 identified species, with the S.simoni and S.ornatus ones being the most common, but the naming process is rapidly developing - being added to and also changing. The article mentions that they can be traded under different names or that seemingly similar fish may actually be different species, due at least in part to regional variations - this is probably key info in light of some of the queries above. Some are possible to be kept in community tanks eg S.atropurpureus and S.semoni have been seen in rainbowfish tanks. Profile details are only available on the most likely species to be sold - the S.ornatus (rainbow Stiphodon - grows to 7cm max, slow water dweller, females drabber-coloured than the extreme colour changes capable of males) and S.semoni (cobalt blue goby, also known as Sumatran goby or freshwater neon goby - grows to 5cm max, faster water dweller, colourful all year round, and more expensive than the former).
Looking at the pics on this thread and comparing them with the two profile pics in the magazine article, I'm struggling to identify the fish pictured here and identify which they are eg the article pics look as though the S.ornatus has a strong, bold dark line the length of its body (midway down its body) whereas the S.semoni looks as though the colours are less bold and slightly more 'mottled'. On the basis of this, I'd say Simon's pics look slightly more on the patterning of the S.semoni and Sue's more similar to the patterning of the S.ornatus. However, this patterning may just be a feature of those particular article pics, and, having never kept gobies, I don't think I'm in any way qualified to comment.
Hope that helps, even if just a little. Lots more interesting info in the PFK article.
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I must get hold of a copy of PFK!
Mine were sold as cobalt blue gobies, no Latin name. But the one I've labelled A looks just like the thumbnail photo of blue neon goby on Seriously Fish.
Does PFK say that ornatus has blue all down the body? The photos on SF show grey bodies with colour on the head and fins. My fish A has blue to bluey green all the way down its body.
My fish B little colour but doesn't have the black stripes that females are supposed to have. It could even be a different species from fish A.
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I had a look at SF after my earlier posting. It has more detail about the different species. The pics there are quite different from the pics in PFK, to the extent that any attempt to identify the fish on this thread has left me confused.
The pic of the S.semoni in PFK looks like a cross between it and the S.atropurpureus on SF but the blue is more subtle. No mention in PFK about blue being all down the body, but the pic has blue the full length of the body (and also a dark golden colour).
The pic of the S.ornatus in PFK looks nothing at all like the one on SF. In PFK, the pic is mainly golden the length of the body, with the contrasting dark band the length of its body. There is a possible blue patch on the underside of the fish but I think it is more likely a shadow.
SUBSEQUENTLY EDITED TO ADD:
I see that Seriously Fish actually has a series of pics for each species, not just the main pic, and it shows vast variation within a species eg: the S.ornatus in PFK looks like the pic of SF's female one.
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I bought another female yesterday and the male LOVES her, who knew fish could be so choosy. When he sees her his colours really intensify and he displays like a looney. All his fins come up and he stands up rather than lying on the sand. I wonder what the other female did to offend him. ::)
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I have come to the conclusion, based on Seriously Fish's photos, that I have a male S. atropurpureus (labelled A in my photos) and a male S. semoni (labelled B). In particular, the patterning of the dark edges of the scales look like the pics on SF. And SF's photos show females with definite black stripes which neither of mine have.
I want to go back to the shop for something else but I will see if they have any more stiphodons and get some females if they have. I see no interactions between the two I have and after reading Fiona's post, it makes me more convinced that I have 2 males.
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Piccies of my male and one of the females. The blue iridescence round his face doesnt really show up in the pics, at certain angles his whole face looks blue, so do the edges of his tail and fins in certain light.
I've been looking on SF and in view of the fact my male chases one female away yet loves the other is making me wonder if I have females from 2 species.
My male looks like the second piccy of a rainbow goby and the female could be a cobalt blue or S. atratus. I'll have a closer look when the lights go on
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They look stunning. For some reason the forum software seems to have shrunk the photos.
Any chance you could try again to see if we can view them full size?
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OMG!!! I'm so excited my male is changing colour!! Every time he sees his favorite female he starts to turn black and his head goes blue!!! I'll try and get photos.
Dunno why they've gone small, I used my sons phone camera and he uploaded them for me. He's in the middle of a D&D game atm but I'll get him to sort the images out.
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OMG!!! I'm so excited my male is changing colour!! Every time he sees his favorite female he starts to turn black and his head goes blue!!!
How awesome! I'd love to see that.
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Its really weird, his bottom third and top third flushes black and his entire head changes colour and then it fades out. He definitely has different colouring to the way he looked yesterday.
I set up a large flat pebble I picked up on Brighton beach against another more rounded one, making sure there's no way they can fall and he's dug underneath the flat stone making himself a den. He goes for a wander round the tank then dives in and wafts out sand with his tail and crawls out the other side.
I'm going to take a video and show it to the guy at MA, that said I bet he'll stop as soon as I point lens at him.
On a more sombre note, my shoal of rummynose tetras seem to have been afflicted with whitespot overnight! I've no idea how that started, everybody else looks alright. Grrrr there's always something...
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I'm going to take a video and show it to the guy at MA, that said I bet he'll stop as soon as I point lens at him.
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I hope you're planning on letting us see this too... :-*
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Umm I'll try, if I get it on camera I might need to email it to somebody to post unless my son makes willing.
Simon do you have females as well? My male was quite a self contained guy until I introduced the new female.
ps:they love blanched courgette
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Umm I'll try, if I get it on camera I might need to email it to somebody to post unless my son makes willing.
I'll be only too happy to help you get it on YouTube, help you set up your own channel etc. Or upload it to my channel if you'd rather.
Feel free to contact me by PM if you want to discuss further.
Simon do you have females as well? My male was quite a self contained guy until I introduced the new female.
ps:they love blanched courgette
I'm a bit confused about what I have to be perfectly honest. ::)
I think I have a male (one is often darker than the others and sometimes has electric blue cheeks) and I think I have two females.
But my Jungle makes for a lot of hiding places and, on the occasions when I do see them together to compare them, they're usually up top on a piece of bogwood close to the light and this sort of washes out their colouration.
Mine love blanched courgette too! :D
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You know what? My supposed same species females are completely different.
One has bands circling its body and very fine stripes and I do mean a scales thickness and seems to have a reddish dorsal fin. Its quite dull looking. Thats the one my male displays at.
The other has 2 well defined diamond stripes and the male just chases it off.
Hmmmm. Methinks MA is getting a mixed bag of fish.
I have pictures but my son is being grumpy and I have no idea how to download the pics I have. SF say the different species intermingle and as they're all coming from the wild I'm guessing the trader is just netting and selling them as one species.
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From what I read, they are fairly new to the hobby so no importer/wholesaler/shop will have had much experience with them. So I agree, the shops are getting mixed species all labelled as just one.
I'm more and more convinced as time passes that I don't have a male and female of one species but 2 males of different species. These were the last 2 fish in the shop so if they get any more there is no guarantee that any females will be the same species as either of the males :-\
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I've finally gotten a couple of photos that (almost) do my Gobies justice.
The Male (you can just make out the flash of electric blue on his head)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/12471801_10153896988083470_7192595959330025226_o.jpg)
A Female (much paler but with an attractive red blush on her dorsal)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/12484578_10153896988073470_5566551621261053063_o.jpg)
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They are lovely :)
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Hmmmm, just been to Seriously Fish. Females are supposed to have black stripes down the length of the body. Some of the pics on SF look a bit like the one of yours labelled as female and SF say theirs are males ???
The problem with stiphodons is that there isn't much info on the internet.
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They are lovely :)
Thank you. :)
Hmmmm, just been to Seriously Fish. Females are supposed to have black stripes down the length of the body. Some of the pics on SF look a bit like the one of yours labelled as female and SF say theirs are males ???
The problem with stiphodons is that there isn't much info on the internet.
I know Sue, hence my confusion.
I feel the photos, of Stiphodon ornatus, on Seriously Fish are of such wildly different looking specimens it's hard to believe they are all the same species.
I've not really found any photos on Seriously Fish which I can say looks exactly like mine.
I'm (fairly) convinced mine are all the same species, and am guessing the male is the darker one with the bright coloured cheeks, and the paler pair are females. This guess is simply down to the fact that in most fish species the male is the more striking coloured.
But I am only surmising and would be happy to be enlightened if someone can say definitively.
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I think it's virtually impossible to identify Stiphodon species for certain by looking at photos. As Seriously Fish says "The Gobiidae is the most speciose vertebrate family and notoriously problematic in terms of identifying fishes down to species level.". The identification of species is basically down to anatomical features such as number of rays in various fins. Consider Seriously Fish description of one species "It can be told apart from congeners by the following combination of characters: first dorsal-fin with 6 spines and 1 soft ray; second dorsal-fin with 9 soft rays; male with pointed, but not filamentous, first dorsal-fin with spines 4 and 5 elongate; posterior tip of first dorsal-fin normally extending to base of soft rays 2-5 in second dorsal-fin; pectoral-fin rays 15-17 (mode 16); premaxillary teeth 32-40; dentary with 32-45 horizontal teeth; female with 2 dark lateral stripes with a relatively large space between, lower stripe comprising 8-11 regular blotches, upper stripe thin and pale; all fins of female usually with faint markings; non-nuptial males with a dark lateral stripe below lateral midline, absent in nuptial males; nuptial males with blackish or sometimes orange body, metallic turquoise laterally on head; metallic turquoise spot on upper pectoral-fin base in life; pectoral-fin rays in male often having 1-6 somewhat obscure black spots."
Of Stiphodon they also say "Over 30 (species) have been described to date with at least a similar number awaiting description"
Also consider the distribution and lifestyle of these fish, most are found in very short streams that run down to the sea, the larvae develop in the sea and swim upstream later. Specimens from nearby streams may look different, but actually be varieties of the same, or they may look the same on the outside but actually be different species. Some of these islands have a very large number of streams, there could potentially be many Stiphodon species on even a small island.
As a professional invertebrate surveyor, I meet a similar problem regularly, people insist that the insect they have seen must be a particular species because "it looks the same as pictures on the internet (or in a book)". They rarely believe me when I say that there might be many species which apparently look exactly the same, but once under a microscope (or even dissected) the differences become clear. People joke about us "counting the hairs on a fly's legs", that's not quite true, we don't count the hairs, only the bristles
A similar situation applies to these less well known groups of fish, looking at pictures may not give you the correct answer.
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And of course the collectors have no idea what species they are, just "gobies" so they arrive at the importer with no definite label. Then, with little definitive information to refer to, the importer just labels them as he thinks they are.
I'm having problems with mine too. The chap at the shop said the last two he had were a male and female, but one thing all the photos share, regardless of species, is that females have dark stripes from nose to tail. As neither of mine have black stripes, neither would seem to be a female. So I have 2 males that look different from each other. Since males are territorial and mine ignore each other, I've come to the conclusion I have two males of different species. As to what the species are.......
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I have just got some more stiphodons :))
The shop where I got my first two had some more in, though as my husband hasn't been well and I don't drive I had to wait till yesterday to go there. This time they were labelled as 'indie blue stiphodons', the name the wholesaler gave them. I bought 4 and decided to risk not quarantining them as I've only just taken the QT down after cycling the betta's new filter and my husband was complaining about it so I didn't dare set it back up again.
Last evening, all six of them were sitting in the same 4 square inches of tank floor, and I couldn't tell which were the old ones.
Time will tell if they continue to get on as I read that males can be territorial and it was impossible to tell the gender of the dozen or so in the shop tank :-\
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Looking forward to seeing some pics, Sue. :)
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Me too!
I asked in my MA last week and they get all their wild caught fish from a major importer, so basically they sell what they're told they are getting. I have 3 different looking types of stiph. I promise to take some decent photos soon. The stripey ones happily lie all over each other and spend a lot of time in the plants, the banded one with a reddish dorsal fin mingles with them in the plants but gets a bit stroppy if they go near its home under the morpani wood The final type which I thought actually may be a male rainbow but have my doubts about now, is stroppy about every gobie and sometimes chases the ottos away. His scales are black edged, he flushes black in 3 bands along his body when he's territorial, which is most of the time. He's the only one that digs btw
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I'm looking forward to seeing more photos of these fish. These are ones that I was considering for my "stream" tank. They are lovely looking fish and their little round faces are so cute.
:)