Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: Matt on March 06, 2016, 08:45:12 AM
-
Hello all,
I've been planning an upgrade for a while now and my latest thoughts are for a Fluval Roma 125 litre aquarium with the following stocking:
Otocinclus (3 current tank)
Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2 females current tank, possibly get 1 male)
Galaxy Rasbora (6 current tank)
Harlequin Rasbora (4 current tank)
Sparkling Gourami (3 current tank)
Pygmy Cory (4)
Ember Tetra (6)
Fiveband Barb (4)
Dwarf Rainbowfish (4)
Golden Pencilfish (4)
Dwarf Gourami (1)
As there are no doubt people here with vastly more experience than me with these species, I'd love to hear if anyone has any thoughts on suitability/compatibility.
Thanks in advance!
-
Sounds like it will be a lovely tank with that mix of fish.
Many fish seem to fare much better when in larger shoals than the minimum often recommended such as on our Community Creator - they display more natural behaviour, shoal better together, and are less likely to succumb to stress/illness. For that reason, I'd definitely recommend increasing the numbers of each of the types of fish (apart from the cichlids and gouramis which can be fine in small numbers) until you have a minimum of 6 and ideally 8 or 10. For the particularly small species, such as the pygmy cories, galaxy rasboras and ember tetras, I'd advise going nearer 10 (if you keep 6-8 of each of the other shoals) as they will probably feel safer in larger numbers .v. their slightly larger tankmates. Obviously, this will mean having to make decisions about which fish NOT to have at all as you'll no doubt be overstocked with the increased numbers.
Some people find barbs very active and competitive for food .v. the other tankmates but you might be fine with the fiveband ones, and ExtremeOne successfully keeps green tiger barbs in his tank with some similar fish to yours.
Hope that helps as a starter-for-ten.
-
I'm watching your thread with interest Matt, you have listed quite a lot of the types of fish I am looking at getting once my fishless cycle is complete :)
-
Just to be clear, you already have the otos, rams, galaxy rasboras, harlequins and sparking gourami, and the rest are fish you don't have but would like?
Rams - if you do get a male, there is a good chance he will pair up with one of the females and make life difficult for the 'spare' female. Be prepared to rehome one of the females if this happens. If course the male might not like either of the females or they might both take a dislike to him.
To be honest, the first thing I'd do is get more of the galaxies and harlequins. Galaxies are shy little fish and do much better with larger numbers. So a total of 10 galaxies and 6 harlequins. That would put you at 58% stocked.
Of the 'wish list' fish -
Pygmy cories are another small fish that does better in a big group, so you'd need at least 6 of those. They also need smooth gravel, or preferably sand. The rams would also do better on sand. But with rams in the tank, there could be problems. If you get a male and female that breed, they will chase everything away from their eggs. Cories have no concept of territory. They will keep wandering back towards the rams eggs and could very well end up being bitten.
Ember tetras - fine, and 6 should be enough of them.
Fiveband barbs should be OK, but more than 4. With shoaling fish,, 6 is the absolute minimum.
Dwarf rainbows - again at least 6. I had these for a while in my 180 litre tank that is 107cm long. I felt they were too overactive even for that length tank. I assume your 110 litre tank is shorter than that? (I gave mine away as they were just so exhausting to watch)
Golden pencilfish - biggish fish but sedate. At least 6 would be fine. (I have 12 of them)
Dwarf gourami - make sure the tank it comes from has no sickly looking or dead gouramis in there. So many dg's arrive at the shop already infected with the incurable dwarf gourami iridovirus.
If you were to get all those fish, your tank would be 162% stocked.
If this was my tank, I would forget the barbs. They are the same colour as the harlequins. And the rainbowfish (having had them already and finding how hyperactive they are). That takes you down to 107% which, while overstocked, would be do-able.
I'd probably also forget the cories simply because of the rams.
There are two ways to stock a tank. The minimum numbers of lots of species, or lots of a few species. I fall into the second group.
In my 180 litre I have 13 cherry barbs, 12 pencilfish, 3 apistos, 3 loaches (was 4 but one died shortly after I got them) 4 otos, and 6 stiphodons. The 2 ember tetras and 4 microdevarios are the last of shoals - I won't be replacing them. And yes I am overstocked!
-
Ok so updated list following advice so far:
Otocinclus (3 current tank)
Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2 females current tank)
Galaxy Rasbora (6 current tank)
Harlequin Rasbora (4 current tank - my first fish and I would be reluctant to mess up their already excellent schoal)
Sparkling Gourami (3 current tank)
Pygmy Cory (4, see how they get on with the rams and consider 6)
Ember Tetra (6)
Fiveband Barb
Dwarf Rainbowfish (4)
Golden Pencilfish (4 now 6)
Dwarf Gourami (1)
I definitely fall into the minimum numbers of lots of species camp although I do seem to be somewhat lonely in this group!
Yes Sue, you are correct about my currently owned and wish list fish.
The above puts me at 70% in the community creator with an external filter Sue, before I can consider increasing numbers of each species can you confirm I've not missed a trick here?
EDIT: possible rainbows alternative would be axelrods rasbora
-
I'd missed the external :-[ That does make your stocking better.
You'll find that shoaling fish are better with more of them, 4 isn't really enough; but if the harlies are used to being in 4, then OK. But having the pencilfish myself, I know how they behave with more of them. I realise it is almost impossible to do with the young fish in the shop, but if you can get more female pencilfish than males it would be better for the group. Males have whiter tips on their pelvic fins - see third small pic in the profile.
And don't say I didn't warn you about the hyperactive rainbows ;D
-
Are threadfin rainbows any better? I like to have fish with different behaviours more than anything.
Any you might be able to recommend?
-
Threadfins would be great. Read up on sexing them as I think I've only seen males in the local shop that stocks them. As with most male fish, they display better if they have females to display to.
-
Would a hillstream loach be compatible with these species? I've always discounted them after reading their profile on here, but my LFS stocks them alongside similar species...
I'm also rapidly falling for rummy nose tetra following my store visit, they are much nicer 'in real life' and something a bit different than my current stocking/wishlist.
-
Hillstream loaches are not really good community fish. They like fast flowing, oxygen rich water at lower temperatures than most tropicals need.
The fish in shops are only meant to be there temporarily so shops tend to just mix them up together regardless of their needs.
-
The latest picture is:
Otocinclus (3)
Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2 from my current tank)
Galaxy Rasbora (6 from my current tank)
Harlequin Rasbora (6, 2 more than my current tank)
Sparkling Gourami (3 from current tank - is it worth getting more?)
Pygmy Cory (4)
Ember Tetra (6)
Neon Rasbora (6)
Rummynose Tetra (6)
Dwarf Gourami (1)
Cerry barb (4)
This puts me at 80% stocking
I'd appreciate any thoughts as usual.
-
I'm watching your thread with interest Matt, you have listed quite a lot of the types of fish I am looking at getting once my fishless cycle is complete :)
I've been watching your progress Paddyc, what are your current thoughts for stocking?
-
My concern with a shoal of larger fish such as cherry or ruby barbs is that the smaller fish (particularly ember tetras, sparkling gouramis and galaxy rasboras) would be in hiding all the time. Cherry barbs are quite active fish and are quite greedy at feeding time.
You could consider getting 3 dwarf gouramis, 1 male and 2 females. More that one male needs a larger tank as they are territiorial, and you need more than one female per male as males can harass a female to death if he wants to breed and she doesn't.
One thing I'm not sure about. In general terms it is not a good idea to mix species of gourami. But sparking gouramis have different behaviour from their larger cousins, so they might be OK with dwarfs. If you do get both, have a back up plan in case they don't get on.
-
I've been watching your progress Paddyc, what are your current thoughts for stocking?
I'm still very much in the researching part of building a stock list. I don't want to buy a lot of fish initially but I do want to achieve a good 20% of max stock fairly quickly to keep up the nitrogen cycle. My main reason for not getting too many at first is in case I have teething problems and lose a lot of fish. I have an external filter and 180 litres to work with so eventually I'll have a fairly busy (an hopefully happy and healthy) community of fish :D
From my signature you'll see my initial thoughts. I want a plec or two as well, I'll take the precise type of plec under advisement also... ;)
-
I find that Cherry barbs are very peaceful and quiet, much more so than other barbs which tend to be very boisterous. They're a lot smaller as well and do well with small tetras and Harlequins etc. I wouldn't say the same for Ruby barbs though, my males have permanently bitten tails through constant battles and chasing, even after two years to learn to get along.
-
Being as decisive as usual, I've had a rethink following your comments, my latest thinking is now:
Otocinclus (3 from current tank)
Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (4, 2 from current tank)
Galaxy Rasbora (6 from my current tank)
Harlequin Rasbora (4 from current tank)
Sparkling Gourami (3 from current tank)
Pygmy Cory (4)
Ember Tetra (6)
Neon Rasbora (6)
Rummynose Tetra (6)
Female Betta (1)
This is now for a 125 litre aquarium with an internal filter, so 90% stocking (I couldn't justify spending all that money on an aqua oak!).
I'd appreciate any thoughts as usual.
-
Your Pygmy Corys really want to be in a larger shoal, at least 6 but, personally I'd now have no fewer than 12.
I kept 6 and they seemed fine for a couple of months then gradually one-by-one they died with no obvious cause.
In the wild these will be found in shoals numbering hundreds or even thousands.
Even a shoal of 6 is a tiny number compared to their natural preference.
I think I'll ask Robert to update the profile to increase the minium number to 6.
-
I love all the fish species you have chosen, each stunning in its own way. Whatever you decide to stock in your tank is your decision, though it is great to get advice from others regarding their suitability (tank size, water, compatibility, etc.).
Personally, I'd have larger shoals of fewer species. I have fallen into the trap of getting 6 of one variety just because it's the recommended minimum number. It seems a bit too arbitrary now. Tanks with a little bit of everything rarely appeal to me anymore, including my own which has 4 X-Ray tetras, 2 Pseudomugil sp. 'Red Neon' and a Stiphodon. I would love to increase the number of Pseudomugil in the tank, but I got the original bunch for a steal and now my LFS charges £5.95 per fish! Instead I am going to allow the numbers to dwindle until I have stocking capacity for around a dozen small fish (CPD, Green Neon Tetra or Emerald Dwarf Rasbora) and I'll leave it at that. If I had a larger tank (mine is only 55l) I may have a couple of shoals and a centre-piece fish (or two).
It's taken me a little while to realise that I don't need to have every species I like all in the same tank at the same time. I think I'm fish-lifer and I'll have plenty of time to see other fish in my tank in the future.
-
I completely concur with ExtremeOne about the pygmy cories - both he and I had exactly the same problems last year, with our shoals of six dying one by one. If you have a hunt around on this forum, you'll find the entire saga of mine (June-Sept) and my conclusions that minimum numbers should actually be a lot more than 6 - MA recommends 10+ on their website.
I used to think lots of different species would be lovely ie intermingling colours and behaviours but, actually, one of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen was the harlequin rasboras schooling en masse in the LFS ie large-group behaviour, so I'd be inclined to agree with Cod.
-
The MA in Weybridge only sells Pygmy Cories by the dozen for the reasons mentioned above. They're also a great deal - £15 for 12.
-
Exactly my thoughts too. I am already in the process of increasing my remaining groups. The Embers will go from 6 to 12 as soon as the tank has had a couple of weeks to get used to the last increase. When I started (again), I just wanted as many different fish as possible, and I bought the listed minimum numbers, and some of them didn't thrive. The exception to this was neons, where there was a very good deal for 10 babies. I still have those, and they look tremendous.
I too believe that the quoted minimum numbers can often be on the low side.
Skittler
-
Threadfins would be great. Read up on sexing them as I think I've only seen males in the local shop that stocks them. As with most male fish, they display better if they have females to display to.
My threadfin boys actually display to my female celebes rainbow, I think they're a bit confused, it also drives the male celebes nuts ::)
-
I'm now planning a custom 150 litre tank with base dimensions of 40x90cm with a Fluval u4 filter.
I've resisted posting for ages to try and avoid the ever changing mind of Matt!! :rotfl: I seem to be quite set on this now (it's lasted as a plan for a good number of weeks)
I want it to look something like this https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=_ALgkZvCtwk (https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=_ALgkZvCtwk)
6 otocinclus
6 galaxy rasbora
6 alexrods rasbora
6 rummy nose terra
6 harlequin rasbora (mix of normal and purple)
6 sparkling gourami
6 ram (2 of each; normal,golden,blue)
2 or 4 checkerboard cichlid
Possibly a female betta if it will be compatible... they keep catching my eye ::)
I'm going to start buying the plants I want for it and eventually the wood and substrate to replace what's in my existing tank so that the move will be easier as I can take the maximum amount of beneficial bacteria over with them (I don't want to be running two tanks at once if I can avoid it). Filter media from the old filter will be used in the new also to aid this, and stocking this up would be done gradually.
Any thoughts? Don't forget I'm in the small number of lots of species camp :fishy1:
-
My only thought would be about the number of fish competing for territory on the substrate. There may not be enough elbow room unless there's loads of hiding places and broken lines of sight, especially if they start breeding.
-
Lovely range of fish - oh, to have a tank of that size!
Otocinclus - if this is a new tank from what you have already, then definitely worth waiting until the tank is well-and-truly mature (eg at least several months) before introducing them, to ensure there's a good biofilm, etc.
Betta - unsure about its suitability or not in the tank, although it's female, but one of the others will no doubt know better.
It might also be worth checking the profile for sparkling gourami again, given how they are with shrimps, just to be certain that they'd be fine with other fish and especially bettas' fancy fins.
Really looking forward to seeing pics and videos of this tank once complete!
-
Bettas, even females, are not good community fish. Some females are more aggressive than males. This is the one fish I would leave out of your list. If you really want a betta of either sex, a small 20 to 25 litre tank would be fine. I don't want to turn you into Littlefish, but couldn't you squeeze in a small tank as well ;D
I agree with Colin about having too many territorial bottom dwelling fish ie 6 rams. And you might well find that with 2 of each of three colours they will swap colours and form mixed pairs.
With a 90 x 40 footprint tank, I would go with 4 rams at the most.
-
Tank planning and fish research is a very enjoyable part of the process. I'm following this thread with interest, especially as you have very different water from mone, so you are considering a lot of fish that I can't have. :)
I don't want to turn you into Littlefish, but couldn't you squeeze in a small tank as well ;D
@Sue considering the pictures that @ColinB posted previously of furniture that had built in tanks, you could never be such a bad influence as Colin when it comes to squeezing in an extra tank. ;D
-
Thanks all - this is great advice! So I'll remove the Betta (this was a bit of a last-minute.com thought anyway).
Have got sparkling gouramis currently so I am confident that are peaceful enough for... well... almost all setups tbh :fishy1:
Regarding the Rams, I'm more than happy to take on board everyone advice on numbers but 2 questions...
would keeping females only help?
I believe that will get on ok with the checkerboard cichlids but how about in this limited space?
Im thinking 4 rams and 4 checkerboards maybe...
@Sue I'm keen not to embark on a journey to MTS - literally the only way this would happen is if I were to keep an unfiltered, unheated shrimp tank/vase. :isay:
-
Tank planning and fish research is a very enjoyable part of the process.
Couldn't agree more... how many hours I must have wasted... :raspberries
-
Tank planning and fish research is a very enjoyable part of the process.
Couldn't agree more... how many hours I must have wasted... :raspberries
Preparation time is never a waste - this is the most crucial time. Far better to do that than learn the hard way or have regrets.
-
I dread to think how much time I've spent (and still spend) on the community creator. :-[ ;D
-
Regarding the Rams, I'm more than happy to take on board everyone advice on numbers but 2 questions...
would keeping females only help?
I believe that will get on ok with the checkerboard cichlids but how about in this limited space?
Im thinking 4 rams and 4 checkerboards maybe...
:fishy1: Anyone out there with any experience with dwarf cichlids? :fishy1:
-
I've had Bolivian rams and apistogrammas but only ever one species at a a time in any tank. I've never risked more than one species in a tank. I can't give you any evidence to say don't have more than one species; it's just my instinctive feeling.
You need the opinion of someone who has kept two or three cichlid species together.
I have tried to keep rams (not Bolivians, the other species) without any success. They always died within a couple of months. Rams tend to be picky about their water parameters, although individuals with nothing but commercially bred ancestors for generations will accept a wider range; it's those with fairly recent wild caught ancestors that are much pickier. They prefer soft acid water with low nitrates. And temperatures higher than most of the other fish in your list would like.
Are you totally committed to rams? Can I persuade you to choose another cichlid like Bolivian rams, apistogrammas or even Nannacaras or Laetacaras? (You'll find Laetacara Curviceps in the profiles on here as the flag cichlid, however these fish are like hen's teeth; I know someone who has been to every shop in Yorkshire and failed to find any).
-
I keep rams now (and have had them a good while) and they are my all time favourite - it's going to take a lot to convince me otherwise I'm afraid :raspberries
I'll get googling about multi species tanks - they live together in the wild so fingers crossed :))
-
I'll get googling about multi species tanks - they live together in the wild so fingers crossed :))
The only caveat to that is that, in the wild, it's easier to escape if unhappy with the neighbours, while this is a bit more difficult in the confines of a tank. Having said that, you could always move them to another of your tanks if they weren't getting on.
-
Matt, if you can keep rams successfully that's fine. But lots of people, me included, can't :(
-
Wow, I've just looked back at this thread and can see it started in March!... Good news is that I've got the go ahead (though not immediately) for a 200l tank ;D and so, yet again, and following more research, my stocking ideas have subtly changed and I've firmed up my thoughts on equipment too:
8 otocinclus
8 galaxy rasbora
8 cardinal tetra
8 rummy nose terta
8 harlequin rasbora (mix of normal and purple)
8 sparkling/licorice gourami
4 german blue ram
4 checkerboard cichlid
8 pygmy cory (I've decided to give these a go, especially now I can get a larger shoal)
I'd like my tank to look something like this: https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=SVJWKpyaCyM (https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=SVJWKpyaCyM) though a low tech version eg. without carpeting plants.
I'm going to use a fluval U4 internal filter as these get very good reviews which I will hide behind the wood.
For lighting Ill probably use 2 of Hidom's CL-6B lights but like @Sue I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on these if anyone has experienced with Hidom products (though again they get good reviews). There will be an acrylic top (with air gap) on the aquarium so you can see in but to keep the heat in.
As for the substrate, I'm thinking of using https://www.amazon.co.uk/CLASSICA-NATURAL-AQUARIUM-CICHLID-SUBSTRATE/dp/B018ICFQGO/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1471686988&sr=8-22&keywords=1mm+sand (https://www.amazon.co.uk/CLASSICA-NATURAL-AQUARIUM-CICHLID-SUBSTRATE/dp/B018ICFQGO/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1471686988&sr=8-22&keywords=1mm+sand) with some root tabs in planted areas.
Any thoughts?
:fishy1:
-
Hi Matt,
Great news about the 200L tank. Your list of intended fish looks good to me - wow, so envious as most of my favourite fish are featured there - but others with more experience may be able to advise further. My only 'hunch' is that, if tank volume would allow for a few more, then I'd increase the size of the shoals of the very small fish (galaxy rasboras and pygmy cories) to 10 or even 12 given how they seem to fare better in larger numbers.
I can't seem to get the YouTube clip to work - it looks just like adverts for clips on a whole range of issues.
Fluval filters are indeed very good - I had one for 12 years before its impellor eventually broke.
Others will be able to advise further on the substrate for plants as that's definitely not an area I have experience in.
Hope this is at least somewhat helpful/reassuring.
-
I can't seem to get the YouTube clip to work - it looks just like adverts for clips on a whole range of issues.
Link works for me but search for Aqueous Reflection by Glass Canvas Aquascape
-
Congratulations on the go ahead for the 200L tank.
The set up on the link is amazing. I had a look at the updates as well. Lovely looking tank. 8)
-
I can't seem to get the YouTube clip to work - it looks just like adverts for clips on a whole range of issues.
Link works for me but search for Aqueous Reflection by Glass Canvas Aquascape
Looks good indeed.
-
I would go for the sparkling gouramis as licorice gouramis are quite sensitive fish. And wait before getting the otos as you need algae to have grown first.
The CC puts your list at 92% stocked; adding an extra 2 galaxy rasboras and pygmy cories would push you to 96%, do-able if you keep on top of your maintenance.
My Hidom AL-2 arrived yesterday; it's a similar shape to the CL-6B just smaller for a 26 litre tank, and with a slightly different neck. It looks and feels a nice piece of equipment - and the plug-transformer doesn't look at though it will split easily. However, it doesn't seem quite as bright as the light that came with the tank. The old one had 24 white LEDs, the new one has 42 LEDs, a mixture of blue and white. It could just be imagination about the brightness of course since I've been using a tiny 4 LED strip since the old one broke :)
-
Yes I was planning on waiting for the otos, Ill essentially be doing a fish in cycle anyway due to wanting to only be running one tank at once so there will be a very gradual process of increased water changes followed by gradually stocking up the tank.
Good to know regarding the stocking levels of the smaller fish and especially the Hidom lights, thanks.
-
Since you already have one, smaller tank running, you do know that you can use all the media from the old filter when you set up the new tank, and transfer the media and the fish you already have at the same time? You will need to keep a close eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels for several days as you will lose the bacteria on the things you don't move across eg the tank walls, substrate etc. Once you are sure you have double zeros, then just add new fish one species at a time, waiting till you have a week of double zeros before getting the next batch.
-
It's like you read my mind Sue, always nice to get some reassurance from your good self. I've never tested my water on a regular basis before as I learnt about all things testing once I had a mature tank and the health of my fish has always been excellent (feel like I just let out a naughty word round here by saying that :o)
Now I know better of course so I'll be getting ammonia and nitrate testing kits to help me through.
-
Now I know better of course so I'll be getting ammonia and nitrate testing kits to help me through.
I hope that was typo, it's nitrite you need ;)
-
Yes indeed!! :yikes: