See less of these, become a Super Subscriber today!

Stocking A 240l

Author Topic: Stocking a 240l  (Read 1895 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Stocking a 240l
« on: June 15, 2017, 08:25:26 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Hiya guys! I'm looking for a larger fish which aren't discus or angels to to in a 240l. The only thing I'm 100% sure on stocking is German blue rams. Whatever I gets needs to work with them. The tank is heavily planted with wood and rock.

Tank perams;
ph being 6.5 gh being >7 and kh being about 5

Local water: hard, ph 7.5, 113.1mg/l calcium


Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 11:25:49 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Your local water hardness converts to almost 16 dH,which fits in with your tank parameters being over 7. It's a lot over 7.
But your KH is low, unusual though not impossible with high GH, and your pH is a lot lower than the local water level.

Are you doing anything to your tap water such as mixing it with RO?



We need to know exactly how hard the tank water is before suggesting fish, over 7 could be anything between 7 and the 16 dH given by your water company.

But I would not risk rams in a hardness of over 7.




Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 11:33:01 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I use tropica soil powder which lowers ph, kh, and gh. I'm already keeping and spawning rams in a smaller tank with the same peramaters.

Filtration wise I have an aps 2000 with UV.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 11:56:38 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I would be very interested to know how that soil powder can reduce hardness. As far as I'm aware the only way to do that is by removing calcium and magnesium from the water or diluting them with pure water  ???


The rams you already have may well have had tank bred ancestors for generations. It is wild caught rams and those tank bred rams with recent wild caught ancestors that suffer in anything other than very soft water. Tank-bred-for-generations rams can also cope with 'normal' temperatures while wild caught need water at around 28 deg C.


Small shoaling fish are easy - anything for the Amazon region will go with rams. Larger fish are more difficult if you don't want angels or discus (which do need higher temps).
The larger gouramis - pearl, three spot colour varieties, snakeskin etc - would fit the bill size-wise but I am not sure about mixing their temperaments.
if you don't mind a larger shoaling fish, some of the tetras and barbs could work.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 12:02:36 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I have no clue how it works, I just know my water tests read totally different now I use tge stuff haha.

I keep my tanks at 28 for the rams :)

I would actually have liked angels, but apparently they're liable to turn highly aggressive as they mature? I love them but I'd like more fish in the tank than just a mated pair of angels  :(

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 01:48:43 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Do you intend having the 240 litre tank at 28 C as well? That will reduce the options quite a lot as there are few fish that can cope with that temp long term. In fact the only large fish I can think of that likes that temp is discus. And there are only a few species of smaller shoaling fish that are happy at that temp  :-\

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2017, 04:32:30 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I was going to have it at 27 so I had more flexibility, unless you feel I should go lower? I'll be keeping gold faced blue rams, so a line bred strain.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 04:55:45 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I'll have to see what I can come up with.

Anyone else got any suggestions?

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 05:04:51 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Cheers sue!

Offline Matt

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
  • Likes: 29
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 10:10:06 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
There's quite a few fish in the profiles on here that look to be ok at 27C... am I missing something?

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 10:46:23 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I think sue just means larger fish? I'm looking at a shoal of emperor tetra (kirri) for dithers, but I'd still like something larger to go with them.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2017, 09:47:18 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Yes I am thinking of larger fish, there are several smaller fish.

But just because a fish has 27 deg right at the top end of its range does not mean it should be kept at that temp. We should aim to keep fish in the middle of its range.




The reason I'm having problems with larger tankmates is because of the comments on Seriously Fish saying that particularly recommended tankmates are "open water-dwelling characids or similar" (tetras and such like that swim higher up in the tank) and to avoid "territorial and aggressive fish such as most other cichlids".

From Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine - rams need peaceful, docile, slow moving, tranquil tank mates.

PFK says rams (and other dwarf south American cichlids) are best as a single pair in a tank of non-cichlids.





You can why I'm having trouble with ideas  :(

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2017, 01:47:43 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
That's the issue I've been having, Sue :-\

I don't mind larger schooling fish if that helps.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2017, 03:00:11 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Shoaling fish I've seen recommended for rams (though most will be too small):
Bleeding heart tetra
Cardinal tetra
Rummy nose tetra

You might get away with dwarf rainbowfish (Melanotaenia praecox) if you don't mind mixing continents.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2017, 03:09:23 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I don't mind mixing continents; I hadn't considered dwarf rainbows because I always thought they were bland, but having looked at videos of them they seem quite colourful?

I've also considered diamond tetra and congo tetra

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 03:13:17 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Most fish in shops are pale and washed out because they are stressed. Dwarf rainbowfish have lovely pale blue metallic bodies with coloured fins. And the same applies to diamond and congo tetras, they will look a lot prettier once they settle into a tank.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2017, 03:19:27 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
That's what I've been thinking. I'm also considering threadfin rainbows for my smaller fish, which probably would rule out congos who can be nippy?

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2017, 03:29:40 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I've never kept diamond or congo tetras, but Seriously Fish comments that it is diamond tetras that can be nippy and that congo tetras should not be kept with nippy fish as their tails can get nipped.
But SF also says that congo tetras might scare timid fish fish with their fast swimming, and so many sites recommend tranquil (ie slow swimming) tank mates for rams.


It took me about three months to decide what to restock my 180 litre tank with last year......

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2017, 03:45:05 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Yeah, I'm seriously struggling 😖

The only bigger fish I can think of are;
Diamond tetra
Congo Tetra
Pearl Gourami
Angelfish
Boesmani Rainbows
Dwarf Rainbows
Discus

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2017, 03:59:05 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I would leave gouramis and angelfish off the list because of compatibility. But I had not considered boeseman rainbows because I know they are harder water fish. Checking on SF I see that they are OK down to 10 German deg. Their lower end is right at the top of rams hardness range so they don't really overlap. Boesemanis also need a 48 inch long tank - I know your tank is big, but is it long or tall?

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2017, 04:02:59 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
120cm long. What would the German degrees of my tank be? The same as my tapwater?

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2017, 04:10:11 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
In theory yes it would be the same. But things in the tank can alter GH, though it is usually upwards. Limestone, coral etc can increase GH.

You could take a sample of tap water to a shop and get them to test it for GH, but ask them to write the number down rather that say something waffly.

120 cm is fine for boesemans.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2017, 04:17:34 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I know my local hardness is 6.35 in German Degrees.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2017, 04:32:43 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Can I go back to the first post.

Quote
Tank perams;
ph being 6.5 gh being >7 and kh being about 5

Local water: hard, ph 7.5, 113.1mg/l calcium

There you gave your tank hardness as over 7 and your tap water as hard. Now you've said your tap water is 6.35


I am confused  :-\

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2017, 04:36:03 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
The local ph is 7.5
The local hardness in german degrees is 6.35

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2017, 04:42:18 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Ahh, in that case the water is fine for rams but not boeseman rainbows. Most rainbows need hard water but some, such as dwarf rainbows and threadfin rainbows that you mentioned earlier, are soft water fish.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2017, 04:44:51 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Fair enough. In that case I'm totally at a loss again :rotfl:

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2017, 09:20:25 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Ok, so I'm thinking perhaps Celebes Rainbows? I'm reading that they can take a ph range between 6.5-8, though I'm also seeing reports of them taking much lower PH's than this?

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2017, 09:44:43 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Unfortunately, the profile of the celebese rainbow on Seriously Fish gives the hardness range as 10 to 25 dH so your hardness isn't high enough for them.

Hardness is more important than pH when looking for a suitable species.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2017, 09:47:59 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
 :-\ I dunno then. I think that's pretty much everything haha.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2017, 09:57:37 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
There is one course of action we haven't yet mentioned. Take a tour around all your local shops and see what they stock. make a note of anything that catches your eye (remembering that the fish in the shops still have some growing to do) then look them up on Seriously Fish. You could well see something that none of us have thought of.
You need fish that won't pick on the rams; fish that won't stress them by swimming too vigorously, and fish that like the same water as rams.

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2017, 10:00:41 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
The biggest issue I have there is I don't drive, and the only two decent fish stores sort of near me are about 30 minutes away by car. Which is fine but the person who'd take me isn't going to wait while I spend an hour where I'm not even buying something. The places are sort of in the middle of nowehere, so it's not like he could even go somewhere and do something else for a while.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2017, 10:04:21 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Ah, I'd forgotten that, sorry  :-[

Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2017, 10:10:09 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Nothing to be sorry for! It just puts me in a position where I really have no clue what to do. Everything I'd like needs water with a harder degree than I have or can't take the temperature. It's a hard life lmfao.

What about these;
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/bedotia-madagascarensis/

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2017, 08:51:01 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I looked at the Seriously Fish profile and didn't believe what I read. I have never heard of a fish that can live in water with such a huge hardness range - they give 0 to 268 ppm or 0 to 15 dH. My other go-to site is FishBase, and they don't give water requirements. I don't trust most of the sites found by google to give accurate information. But I did find one that was interesting http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2721/0 If you scroll down to 'habitat and ecology' it does bear out what SF says, and this site should be reliable.

So yes, they would be suitable for your tank.


Offline Harbremily

  • Fishy Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 1
  • Tropical Fish Forum User
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2017, 11:23:18 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I actually read in several sources that they can be really aggressive despite things saying they're peaceful. I've actually decided to go for the spotted headstander instead.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Think Fishy Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7291
  • Likes: 117
Re: Stocking a 240l
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2017, 11:40:36 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I've just looked that up and it seems you have a winner. SF's list of suitable tank mates includes rams of both species. And at 7 to 8 cm it is a bigger fish.

Now all you have to do is find some  :) There is always the option of on-line, though courier fees can be expensive. You mentioned Pets@Home and a garden centre - I would ask at the garden centre if they can order some in for you. The worst they can say is no. Make sure you have the latin name as well as the common name so that if they are willing to order them, they get the right fish. I have done this with my favourite shop and they have looked at their two wholesalers' websites while I've been in the shop to see if the fish I wanted were available.

See less of these, become a Super Subscriber today!

See less of these, become a Super Subscriber today (see below)

** Become a ThinkFish Super Subscriber **

It takes time and money to keep ThinkFish going, if you'd like to help, then a one off Donation or a Subscription of your choice would be fantastic. Starting from less than 2p per day; your subscription will help fund new articles, pay for server costs and help fund development and promotion initiatives, helping us bring you more of the good stuff you love! You'll also see less ads. Why not become a Super Subscriber today!?
Tags:
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 

Think Fish © 2004-2018 | Keeping Tropical Fish Forum - Everything you need for your Tropical Fish hobby

Tropical Fish Help and Advice
Tropical Fish Keeping Community
General Non-Fishkeeping Chat
Legal | Contact
SEO Services in Kent
Follow Think Fish on: