Starting Again (almost)

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Offline istanley24

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Starting again (almost)
« on: October 22, 2012, 01:23:18 PM »
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My set up is a 150L corner tank, external filter, set at 25.5 -26 degrees, Large peice of bogwood, with some plants (Java fern, Anubias, Egeria Densa, Marimo moss balls) and a leafy fake plant.

A little while ago, in the space of 2 days, we lost all our fish apart from 2 brisltlenose.  The list of fish we lost were:

2 loaches
7 cardinal tetra
6 glowlight tetra
4 platys
4 guppies

Only 2 brisltlenose survived.  We don't really know what happened, but it started after we had put in 2 gourami's and they terrorised the guppies and platys.  We think they killed one fish and we couldn't find it.  we took them back to the LFS and all was fine for a week or so but then the fish started to die off.  I did water tests, and the nitrate was through the roof.  I was doing 20-30% change once a week, but because of the nitrate, I did them daily, but unfortunatly it was too late for most of them  (on top of this, our bristlenose had babies that had just emergerd about 30 or so, half of which were albino, but these all perished), but like I said, 2 bristlenose survived. 

We gave everything a good clean (keeping the original filter media after a thourough clean in aquarium water) and we added a the moss balls.  We left the tank like this for several weeks so that I could ensure the water levels were constant, and the 2 bristlenose were still perfectly happy in there.

We now want to start to get our stock level back up.  Yesterday we introduced 6 mollies.  I know these fish are prolific breeders, but we are just going to let nature take its course and not have them in seperate tanks or a breeding unit.  Is that an ok thing to do?

We then (slowley over the coming weeks and months) want to get a nice community set up.  Iwould like a couple/few loaches, maybe zebra or yo-yo loaches to go in at some point.  Would these be ok with the bristlenose at the bottom (didn't have a problem with the clown loaches we had previously - although we were mis-informed as to the tank size we needed for them!).  And then we want to get some other fish to give our tank a nice busy feel to it but no fighting or fin nipping (or as little as possible), possibly of varying size as long as they are peaceful together.  My wife likes guppys and tetra's, but we have no real specifics that we must have, we just want a nice community.  Does anyone have any recomendations on any types that would work well together. 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Scissor-Tail (5) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Swordtail (male) (1) - Swordtail (female) (3) - Black Molly (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 03:11:41 PM »
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The first thing to advise you is to keep a close eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels, at least once a day, and do a water change if either of them show above zero.
Because the only fish in the tank for several weeks were two bristlenoses, most of the bacteria you used to have in your filter will have died off, leaving just enough to deal with the waste from the bristlenoses. You have just added six mollies, a substantial increase in the bioload, and it's going to take a while for the bacteria to multiply enough to cope with all the waste from the now eight fish. I would suggest you reduce the amount of food you feed until the filter has caught up (ie zero ammonia and nitrite) then increase again to what you would normally feed.

You'll need to wait until your ammonia and nitrite levels have stayed at zero for a couple of weeks before getting more fish, and then a few at a time. It is generally safe to add in one go one third of the body mass of the fish already in the tank. You could get a shoal of one of the smaller loaches or even corydoras for the bottom. Note I said a shoal! These fish like company of their own kind. What do you have on the bottom of the tank? Loaches and cories need smooth gravel, or better still, sand. With mollies being big fish, you need to get tetras that are big enough not to be eaten. There is a slight chance that guppies and mollies can interbreed, though the offspring are usually weak and don't live long. Mollies need hard alkaline water but a lot of tetras need soft acid water - check on the fish database before buying.

One feature on the old Thinkfish was the Community Creator. You entered the  details of your tank, added fish and it would tell you of any problems like incompatible fish, not enough of a particular species etc. The CC was lost when the site had to change hosts, but the owner, Peter, is rebuilding a new improved CC. Once that is up and running, it will help you decide what fish you can add. Unless your filter bacteria multiply very quickly, it will be a few weeks before you can add your final fish.


One final comment - you say your nitrate was sky high. This could be for several reasons. A dead fish, as you suggest; too many fish; feeding too much; insufficient water changes.
20 to 30% a week sounds about right for a nicely stocked tank. It doesn't sound as if it was overstocked (except for the clown loaches) though bristlenoses like all plecs, do create a fair amount of waste. That leaves overfeeding and dead fish as a cause for the high nitrate. I know it's impossible to calculate, but you should be feeding the amount of food equal to one eye per fish. A fish's eye is about the same size as its stomach.
Once the tank is fully stocked again, keep an eye on the nitrate level. The highest it should be allowed to get is the amount in your tapwater plus 20 just before a weekly water change. If the reading is more than 20 above the tapwater level, you either have too many fish, are feeding too much, or not doing a big enough water change.




One last thought - did you check the pH when the fish died? It is possible for a tank to suffer a pH crash, and this sudden massive drop in pH can kill a lot of fish.

Offline istanley24

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 04:05:33 PM »
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Thanks for the reply.

I am in no rush at all to get the stock up, I kind of like taking my time so that I can enjoy watching each new set of fish intergrate before putting more in. 

I will take your advice and do the water tests each night and monitor it closly and do a water change if anything is not as it should be.  Should I also alter my usual water change routine (bigger changes weekly? more often than once a week?) until the fish have been in there a little while?

We have sand at the bottom of the tank, so that is why i was thinking of a small loach (I got a lot of greif on other forums about the clown loaches, but this was all down to bad advice from a so called expert at the fish store).  Zebra loaches look quite nice.  How many would you say would amount as a healthy shoal for this fish?  i will do my research before choosing any fish for definate to make sure they suit the water parameters.

I used the community creator previously, so am looking forward to that getting back online.  My tank previoulsly was quite lightly stocked I think, like I said I was taking my time before the whole thing crashed.

We do try and keep our feeding to a minimum and also have a rest day when we don't feed at all (fridays for us, is this ok?), but I really like your description about the amount of an eye, so I will keep that in mind. 

Our tap water has a nitrate level of 40, and every test I did on the tank water was always 40, until this spike.  the PH is 7.6 and was when I tested at the time of the crash too.



A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Scissor-Tail (5) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Swordtail (male) (1) - Swordtail (female) (3) - Black Molly (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 04:16:34 PM »
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Unless you overstock, your water change regime of 20 to 30% a week is fine. While you are restocking, unless you see ammonia and/or nitrite, you'll be OK with that regime. But if you do see any ammonia/nitrite, you'll need to do water changes as necessary to keep them below 0.25.

With most loaches the absolute minimum is three, with more being better. But as most loaches (zebras includued) get quite big, it is a balancing act between having enough to keep them happy and not so many that you can't have anything else. I have dwarf chain loaches in my 125 litre, they are the smallest loach but are rather pricey.

Missing a day when feeding is perfectly fine. Lots of people do it. Also you could try feeding veggies once a week instead of their normal food. I find all my fish go mad for peas (cooked, deskinned and mashed). Have you tried your bristlenoses with courgette? You may find your new mollies like it too.

Just thought I'd better check about the pH; it was a small chance but it's as well to cover everything  ;D

Offline regan

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 12:44:02 AM »
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Hi.Please listen to Sue,she has helped alot of people on here including myself.
                                                     I also had a nitrate spike a few months ago, i could not understand why
until i tested my tap water and found that it was 50ppm from my tap.This may not help you,but it is worth
trying if it happens again.Good luck with your new venture.

Offline Sue

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 08:40:11 AM »
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Hi regan, you've found the new site I see  ;D

Offline regan

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Re: Starting again (almost)
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 11:33:10 PM »
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Hi Sue.
             Yes i am back,been away due to ill health but ok now.Hope you don't mind me adding  my two pennies worth.
                                         It was nice to see you bred some dwarf cichlids,i have a male cockatoo and a
                                        male boreli,but i can't get hold of any females in bristol shops.Still i will keep looking,
it's nice to be back on here again,at least i had no problems while the site was down.

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