Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: Alex_N on September 21, 2015, 05:17:59 PM
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I've had Prince Nicholas and Princess Mia (don't ask, my daughter named them) for a grand total of four days. They've settled in extremely well.
They have dug out some substrate from underneath an artificial mango root and the male has been chasing off their tank mates. Are they getting ready to spawn? If they are what would be best to feed the fry on?
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Scratch the spawning question.
She's laid eggs! Gutted I'm at work :'(
So what's best to feed the fry?
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It is common with south American cichlids for the parents to eat the eggs the first few times, but I have no idea if the same applies to the African kribs.
Assuming they lay eggs and the parents don't eat them, they will have to defend the eggs against other fish in the tank. Depending on how successful they are, you may or may not have any left to hatch. Eggs hatch in 2 to 3 days and the newly hatched fry are called wrigglers. They are not free swimming at this stage and use the egg sac for food. Once they become free swimming after 7 to 8 days, they will need to be fed. I had success feeding microworms to apistogramma fry; there are several of these tiny worms which can be used - google banana worms, grindle worms etc as well as microworms. They will also eat newly hatched brine shrimp. You can sometimes find baby brine shrimp in the freezer at the fish shop.
If you want to go down the microworm route, you need to start a batch asap. There are lots of sellers; I always got mine from Ebay. You need at least two plastic tubs with lids - and holes punched in the lids; cheap instant porridge and a sachet of yeast. Sand the inside of the tubs to make them rough to help the worms climb up the sides. Make up some instant porridge with water about 1cm deep in the first tub, wait till it cools then sprinkle some yeast over the top. This is optional but the culture works better with yeast. Pour the starter culture on top and wait. Harvest the worms by scraping them off the sides of the tub, being careful not to get any porridge. If you want to deliver them right in front of the fry, add them to a small container of tank water, suck the liquid into a turkey baster and squirt it next to the fry.
The cultures do go off, which is why you need 2 tubs. After a week to 2 weeks, start a second culture with a spoonful of the first. You'll know by the smell when you need to dispose of an old culture.
The unused yeast can be stored in the freezer. It survives well - I have a breadmaker and keep the opened tins of yeast (cheaper than sachets!) frozen.
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Thanks Sue.
I've had a chat with a dude at my local p@h who's kept and bred Kribs. He's recommend that we let the parents take control and do the caring.
I'm struggling to find people that will take them off my hands. If they are successful at rearing their offspring of course. Along with not having a nursery set up in time, not had chance to have a proper play with the Biorb yet.
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The wrigglers are a day old now
:fishy1:
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Brilliant news. Congratulations. :cheers:
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Congratulations! :cheers:
Anne
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The mass underneath Princess Mia are their babies. ;D
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Just a quick update the fry have been on their swim around the nursery grounds. :)
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Brilliant! ;D I'm a little envious.
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The pair have been doing everything right from what I've read up on. Even Prince Nicholas has been helping out.
I've just watched them, what I assume, showing the fry hiding places. Picking a few up at a time and placing then inside a cave.
Ha ha ha, truly is wonderful to watch Simon.
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Very exciting and fascinating to hear about their antics!
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Managed to get a decent picture.
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Quick update.
The fry are starting to swim freely and a lot more active.
Numbers are looking around 30/40 maybe more, they're to small and won't stay still for long enough to even attempt a true head count.
Prince Nicholas and Princess Mia are doing an excellent job at caring for their young.
A couple of Penguins have had their tails nipped though, not sure if this is part of the kribs doing or squabbling between themselves.
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Kribs are reputed to be very good parents. It's always amazing to watch cichlids care for their fry :)
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They are fantastic patents. I do feel a bit sorry for the Penguins though, even when they're going about their own business a krib isn't far behind them.
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Just a quick update.
After a water change this afternoon the female krib had got stuck in an artificial plant.
On seeing the poor soul it was a sorry sight. All her tail fin had been bitten off, I had no choice but to euthanase her.
The male krib has no interest in caring for his offspring. The kids will be put into a hatchery for now and moved as soon as the nursery tank is cycled.
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:( Sorry to hear that.
Sounds like that plant needs to go, if it's happened once I imagine there's not much you could do to prevent it happening in future.
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Yup, it's all ready been removed.
We're not sure if she swam in to it and got stuck or if the current took her after she had her tail gone.
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It could well be the male that attacked her tail, either before or after she got wedged in the plant. My experience is with apistos rather than kribs, but in their case if a male decides he wants to breed he will nip at the female if she is reluctant. With a brood of fry, the female wouldn't want to breed yet and if he did, there's the culprit :(
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Yeah. I've spoken to the guy that's having the fry off us and he's said the same thing.
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Very sorry to read of this.
I've always had artificial plants, plastic or silk. I'd be very surprised if a fish could get wedged in plant under normal circumstances although have definitely had dying, very weak fish get buffeted in by the current and wedged in plants at that stage, so I reckon the attack came first. Very sad.
Good luck with a speedy cycling of the nursery tank.
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The Mrs has told me, I've been at work, that the male has been holding the smaller fry in his mouth. So it seems he still has paternal instincts.
The 'plant' in question was a plastic one and she had got stuck right down at the base where there is even less movement. The current she got caught in was the intake so it is more than likely the nipping took place before hand. But she was head down in the plant as if she was feeding on the algae and had got stuck before the nipping.
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I have noticed over the years that sick fish (and that includes injured fish as well as those with an infection) will wedge themselves into plants. I have always assumed that it means they can just rest rather than having to actively swim all the time. Whenever I see a fish motionless in a plant, I know there is something wrong with that fish. Your krib female might have done this if her tail had gone before she wedged herself in.
Interesting about the male, though. Maybe nature arranges things so that if the mother disappears the father instinctively takes over.
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That's an interesting point.
He only seems to be taking the smaller fry into his mouth and the others are desperately trying to gain access. I'm going on the assumption that he believes the bigger ones are big enough to fend for themselves stronger swimmers, better grazers etc.
He's still protecting them, chasing the Penguins away, but at the same time willing to leave them to it.
He's doing an ok job but I think he might be feeling stretched with the workload as he doesn't seem as bright in appearance.
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Quick update.
Fry are doing well, dad seems to be doing a lot better at caring for them.
The fry look more like fish with clearly visible eyes and dorsal fins. They are a lot more capable at swimming in the current and constantly feeding on the algae.
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Be alert for the day that dad decides they are competition rather than children. He will try to kill them. Well, kill the males, and maybe try to mate with the females now that his partner has gone. You'll need to remove the fry asap when that day comes.
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Indeed.
The net is all ready to go.
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Fry are now in the hatchery after a good 20 frustrating minutes of searching.
Dad, as cunning as ever, has smuggled 3 fry into the main tank.
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Well done - you're doing well in your "grandparent" role. :)
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Thanks fcmf.
I wish I had done it sooner to be honest, the tank is a lot calmer, the only chasing seems to be when it's feeding time. I may well still have Princess Mia as well, never mind though there's all ways next time.
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The fry have not long been moved into the nursery tank.
The HOB filter seems to be a slight problem though, it's a fluval 1. Even on the lowest setting it seems to be a bit strong, they've taken to sitting on top of it. Would it be wise just to keep the filter on for a couple of hours rather than 24/7 until they're a bit bigger and stronger?
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The problem with turning it off is that ammonia will build up. I know they are only tiny, but all infant animals make more waste than you'd think for the size because they are busy using energy to grow.
What do you mean by the Fluval 1 HOB filter? I can only find Fluval 1 plus and U1 internal filters on Hagen's website or anywhere on google.
If you do mean an internal filter, try getting hold of a knee high sock (ask a female friend/relative to donate a new, unused one :D ) and slide that over the intake slits. That's what I've done with the Eheim aquaball in the tank with the shrimps to stop baby shrimps getting sucked in. And there are ways of making a baffle for internal filters - cut the top and bottom off a 2 litre plastic bottle to make a cylinder, and trim it till it slides over the filter.
If it is an actual HOB filter (which sits outside the tank at the top with an uptake tube removing water from the tank like this (https://newbreedaquatics.com.au/azoo-mignon-hob-filter-360.html)) slip a piece of sponge over the end of the tube.
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Very true with the whole waste thing.
I thought a HOB was the whole unit inside the tank that literally hangs on the back of the tank. I'm clearly mistaken as it's the U1 model.
Very good ideas, I have seen the bottle idea before now you've mentioned it.
I'm sure one of my girl's can spare a pair of tights.
I do mean daughters rather than a harem lol
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It's those Americans with their different names for everything that are to blame ;D
They use HOB filters much more than we do; in fact they hardly use internal filters. If you read things written by Americans you'd think there were only two types of filter; canisters that go in the cupboard under the tank (which we call externals) and HOBs. In the UK, you rarely see HOBs in shops but they are full of internals. So reading things written by Americans it is easy to assume that when they say HOB, they mean internal.
A sock (the things we used to call pop socks) is better than the end of a pair of tights - a cut off pair of tights tend to unravel. And if you have a U1, see if they have black socks/tights as then it won't stand out as much :)
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Damn those Yanks and their fake English ;D
I shall have a look in the kids sock draws and see what might be useful in the morning.
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I fear I may be to late to create a guard.
I've just got home from to find one of the larger fry struggling to free itself from the filter intake.
At the minute I fear I have lost the majority of the shoal. :(
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Just checked the sponge media and there was only four caught in the filter.
A lot better than first feared.
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:o That was a close one!
Good luck with the rest and keep us updated. :)
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Yeah just a bit.
I turned the filter off last night just to be safe and now about to raid the kids sock draw :P
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If your daughters don't have the right kind of socks (made of the same stuff as tights) maybe ask them to sacrifice a pair of tights till you can send them out to buy socks for you. You'll get funny looks if you go yourself ;D Or use anything you can find with a fine mesh. It would look unsightly but tying sponges over the inlet vents would also work.
This is why sponge filters powered by an air pump are usually recommended for fry tanks.
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It worked, we've had no more casualties since.
I picked up a couple of friends for the male Krib today and now we're back to the first post after 4 hours of the females being in the tank :o
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That's kribs for you ;D
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Hahah, the circle of life. Good luck! :cheers:
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Woop she's just started laying her brood. I'm actually in to see it this time :))
You can just about see the eggs on the underside of the bridge, behind the Krib.