Red Dwarf Gourami?

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Offline hobo

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Red Dwarf Gourami?
« on: June 30, 2013, 06:40:14 PM »
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Hi Again all,
On the post below this one you will see the fish i already have in the tank but today i bought a red dwarf gourami. A lovely looking fish and only been in the tank a few hours but just looks dis contented. Swimming back and forward along the front of the tank, the other fish take a look at it but as its bigger keep there distance. There is no sign of agression but im wondering if these are ok to keep as 1 fish in a tank or if they require a mate? I would rather 1 fish as only a 64l tank and quickly approaching a full stock so a few types of single fish and id be done.

Thanks for any advice you have.

Offline Sue

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 07:42:51 PM »
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I would keep your gourami alone.

In that size tank it is very inadvisable to have 2 males because unless the tank is planted like a jungle so they couldn't see each other, they would fight.
Male dwarf gouramis are well known 'wife beaters'. If he's in the mood and she isn't, he could well kill her. This is why this species should not be kept as 1m 1f. The recommended is 1male and 2+ females with 3 being even better. But a 64 litre tank doesn't have room for that many dwarf gouramis.


Pacing the tank like that is common in newly purchased fish, as is swimming up and down the glass. He should stop doing it within a few days.

Keep a close eye on your new fish. There is an incurable disease called dwarf gourami iridovirus (DGIV) and a lot of fish on sale are already infected. If he makes it past a couple of months, he should be OK. The good news is that DGIV only affects dwarf gouramis; your other fish won't get infected if he turns out to have it.

Offline hobo

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 07:52:19 PM »
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ok thanks sue,
I did read that you shouldnt have 2 males in a small group but didnt know that they would potentially kill the female. ill leave it at 1 for now. Can you tell me if Rams are the same? i would possibly take a pair of them but not if the same was true?

Thanks again

Offline Sue

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 07:58:10 PM »
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64 litres is a bit small for rams.

They mate for life, and can be picky about mates. Just putting 1m and 1f together does not guarantee they will like each other.
Rams also need very soft acid water and a higher temp than most other fish can cope with. Bolivian rams are a different species that can live in a wider range of conditions but grow bigger than rams and do need a bigger tank. I felt that my 125 litre (footprint 80 x 35cm) was a bit small for mine. Bolivians are also picky about their mates.

If you do ever get rams of either species, watch the fish in the tank to see if any have paired up, and buy that pair.

Offline hobo

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 08:05:23 PM »
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It would be the Mikrogeophagus ramirezi Rams that are on the fish profiles page. 60cm tank and temp of 25-30 degrees is recomended. mine sits at 26 just now so im thinking at the lower end but should be ok i hope.

was that the type you had sue?

Offline Sue

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 08:41:57 AM »
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What are your hardness and pH? Rams need very soft acid water. This species of ram commonly dies shortly after purchase if the water conditions aren't right for them.
Neale Monks is one of the most respected aquarists. Here are some quotes by him:

Quote
The common ram (blue ram, German ram) Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is a terrible community fish. It rarely does well at low temperatures. If you happen to have the water chemistry and temperature this species needs -- 30 degrees C, pH 5-6, less than 5 degrees dH -- then it can be kept with community species that tolerate the same conditions, such as cardinal tetras or perhaps some of the gouramis. But otherwise, the vast majority of rams thrown into community tanks die miserable deaths


Quote
Almost all the Mikrogeophagus ramirezi dumped into standard community tanks die within months. These fish MUST be kept in very warm conditions, around 28-30 C (82-86 F). Too cold, and their immune system and digestive system don't work properly, and sooner or later you have to deal with things like Hexamita

I have bought rams two or three times over the years and all of them died within weeks. You can try rams if you wish, but you have been warned. There are people who have no problems keeping them at typical community tank temps, but they do usually have soft water.
If you want a colourful bottom dwelling fish, you could always try a m/f pair of cockatoo cichlids (Apistogramma cacatuoides). There are several named varieties of different colours. You would need a cave of some sort (for spawning) and other decor/plants to give the female somewhere to hide of the male pressurised her too much. Other apistos that can cope with a wider range of hardness and pH are Apistogramma agassizi and Apistogramma  borelli.
I have cockatoos with honey gouramis and they do not bother each other at all.

Offline hobo

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 12:06:48 PM »
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todays test is:
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
gh 125
kh 50
ph 6.8

Been much the same for few weeks

cockatoo cichlids look good but on description says about them chasing other fish which i wouldnt be too happy with i dont think. i have the other things like some pipes for them to spawn in and fair amount of plants to hide in. Also like the look of Flag cichlids but im a little afraid for shrimps and galaxy resbora as they are small.

Thanks again

Offline Sue

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Re: Red Dwarf Gourami?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 12:53:59 PM »
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Your pH is fine but your hardness is perhaps a bit high for rams. That just leaves the temperature problem. if you want to try them, go for the 'original' colouring. Avoid gold ones and electric blues, along with balloon rams. These have been intensively bred to get the colour/body shape and are more delicate. Read up on sexing them, and study the shop tank to see if any have already paired up. Rams are substrate spawners rather than cave spawners. My Bolivian rams always used a flat rock.

One piece of advice I can give you - rams are earth eaters (that's what their latin name Mikrogeophagus means). I had my bolivians on a fine gravel substrate and the female got a piece stuck in her throat. After that experience I changed all my tanks to sand, and would never keep rams on gravel again. Or apistos for that matter as they too sift the sand looking for bits of food.




My apistos only chase the other fish when they have eggs or fry. And it's the female that does the chasing. She never actually makes contact and no other fish has ever been harmed.

Rams, apistos and flag cichlids do better with dither fish in the tank. These are shoaling fish which the cichlids use as a warning system - if the dither fish are out and about, it must be safe to come out of hiding. If there are no other fish in the tank, some cichlids regard that as a sign that there is a predator in the vicinity and hide. I have ember tetras in with my apistos with no problem, but I wouldn't risk small shrimps with any cichlid, including rams. I have full grown amanos, which are quite big - the female shrimp is bigger than the female apisto.

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