Author Topic: Cardinal tetra - a few odd features (Read 20654 times) 36 replies

fcmf · « **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2020, 06:25:55 PM »

As an update, JBL nitrite kit arrived today. I do love their tests - so easy to use and read. The scale is <0.01, 0.025, 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8, 1.0. Where the Tetra and JBL test strips tended to read 0 nitrite, and the Waterlife liquid-based kit and ITS colour strips a bit difficult to decipher (but possibly somewhere in between the lowest reading and the next one up (0.25 and 0.15 respectively), the JBL kit is much easier with smaller increments. On it, my tapwater currently reads <0.01 and my tank water pre- water change 0.05 mg/l.

The little male cardinal is the same - behaving and feeding very well but paler along his spine and in a section around his pectoral area, so I'm continuing to monitor.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2020, 09:33:50 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on June 06, 2020, 06:25:55 PM

As an update, JBL nitrite kit arrived today. I do love their tests - so easy to use and read.

Hi @fcmf

When you take a reading from this, or other, JBL test kit(s), do you ensure that the bottom of the vial is fully in contact with the colour chart, do you tilt it or do you lift it slightly away from the colour chart? I don't have a JBL test kit at hand but I think the first of these options is the correct one, isn't it? When I do water tests, I always get a second opinion from my wife. I had my colour vision checked approx. 25 years ago. I think it's high time it was checked again!

Anyway, it looks as if your nitrite figure is just OK. I suspect it'll be fine.

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2020, 07:33:37 PM »

I tend to hold it about half a centimetre above the colour chart, then tilt it back and hold it all sorts of angles, including setting it on top of the colour chart vertically and lying horizontally, before verifying what colour it is. I'm now also doing it with and without reading glasses.

I'm now getting a second opinion every time I do a water test - didn't used to. There's a slight discrepancy between my and Mr FCMF's interpretation of the colour. I did another test of the tap water nitrite with the old Waterlife kit - it's somewhere between 0 and 0.25 but Mr FCMF sees it as pinker than I see it; I'd probably say 0.05 on it whereas he'd say 0.10.

The benefit of the JBL kits is that they supply two test tubes / vials for each test - so it's possible to check tap water and tank water together if desired and compare for difference. It's amazing how much that can help highlight subtle differences, and the difference that different test tubes can result in (even when thoroughly cleaned - an API or a a Waterlife test tube can provide different interpretations based on grooves on the vial, etc.). Also, the JBL test tubes are much thicker and less likely to topple over than the other brands' test kits'.

fcmf · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2020, 06:28:44 PM »

Thoughts, please.

As a recap, I've had the cardinal tetras since Sept 2019. Very soft water (34.38 ppm or 1.93 German degrees hardness) ought to suit them.

In Dec 2019, one became bloated, and didn't respond well to Epsom salt and subsequent eSHa 2000 treatments or indeed to being isolated in the QT, became significantly worse, and died (link to thread to be inserted). Between this experience and reading elsewhere (source to be re-identified) of cardinals not responding well to treatment and isolation, I've been reluctant to use this approach again if needed.

Next, the largest one with the biggest appetite developed a few odd features (details earlier in this thread - first post) and turned white along the spine over the dorsal fin area, unlike her shoalmates' darker spines. She died in late May 2020.

The small runt of the shoal always had a 'washed out' look during water changes, and more recently at night and in the morning pre- 'lights on'. The red patch in his torso area has always had a bluish patch in it but this whole area has faded recently, accompanied by the uppermost area over the dorsal fin becoming white (in contrast to others' dark shade) in recent weeks, and rapid breathing. Eating well and filled out this month but this has progressed to bloating particularly in the past week. Today has developed 'flecks' as though scales distorted - this can be seen near the adipose fin in the video. I have wondered all along about this being neon tetra disease but his appetite is good and he hasn't strayed from the shoal. A bacterial infection; now dropsy? https:///youtu.be/YZxgAqSJC-Y He now looks worse than the female looked a few weeks ago before she died.

fcmf · « **Reply #24 on:** June 23, 2020, 06:04:14 PM »

As an update to this thread, it seems as though the poor chap has a bacterial infection as he looks worse and his eyes have been protruding in recent days. Still behaving and eating fine, though. I set up the QT but had awful trouble trying to remove him - he and his 3 tankmates shoaled up really tight near the substrate and neither I nor Mr FCMF could extract him. It's clear they're a tightly knit shoal and that removal of one is going to stress him and the others. Ultimately, and I know this goes against the advice I would give if someone presented with the some predicament, we decided that the lesser of two evils was to keep them all together (and the outcome is likely to be the same for him either way), and this also takes into account the considerable and irreversible deterioration of the first cardinal tetra when I removed her for treatment back in Dec. I'm treating the main tank with Melafix as I feel the need to do something, even although it's not well-regarded - but can't treat the tank with eSHa 2000 due to the nerite snails.

LeakysLab · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2020, 07:56:59 PM »

I’m sorry to read about him, I’m not an expert on medical care but I would agree that if you or Mr fcmf cannot catch him to hospitalise for treatment and the event may stress him out further in my opinion you’ve done the best thing you can do with the situation. Would it be possible to remove the snails to allow the esha 2000 to be added?

fcmf · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2020, 08:11:30 PM »

Thanks, Leakyslab. I did wonder about that but (i) Mrs Snail is such an escape artist that she'd easily push her way out of the QT even if there were a weight on its flimsy lid and cable holes and (ii) I wouldn't trust that I'd ever be able to remove all traces of eSHa 2000 from the main tank that it would be sufficiently safe to return them to it.

LeakysLab · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:09:23 PM »

Could you not plug the holes with filter floss or similar to seal Mrs Snail in? You can remove the chemicals with a carbon pad or this other white poly pad thing that removes toxins ? ( I’m sorry the actual name evades me at this hour)

fcmf · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2020, 11:01:15 PM »

She's a very strong lady & can push her way behind the filter (now attached with magnets) & moves decor around the tank, so that wouldn't work, unfortunately. I do have carbon & polyfilter pads but I'm assuming they can't remove all traces of eSHa2000 that end up in wood, decor, pebbles & plants, etc...?

Sue · « **Reply #29 on:** June 24, 2020, 12:15:02 PM »

It can be removed from pebbles but plants will take it up and if anything eats the plant it'll get inside the eater. Wood will take up anything we add to the tank.

fcmf · « **Reply #30 on:** July 16, 2020, 08:32:36 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on June 23, 2020, 06:04:14 PM

As an update to this thread, it seems as though the poor chap has a bacterial infection as he looks worse and his eyes have been protruding in recent days. Still behaving and eating fine, though. I set up the QT but had awful trouble trying to remove him - he and his 3 tankmates shoaled up really tight near the substrate and neither I nor Mr FCMF could extract him. It's clear they're a tightly knit shoal and that removal of one is going to stress him and the others. Ultimately, and I know this goes against the advice I would give if someone presented with the some predicament, we decided that the lesser of two evils was to keep them all together (and the outcome is likely to be the same for him either way), and this also takes into account the considerable and irreversible deterioration of the first cardinal tetra when I removed her for treatment back in Dec. I'm treating the main tank with Melafix as I feel the need to do something, even although it's not well-regarded - but can't treat the tank with eSHa 2000 due to the nerite snails.

~3 weeks later and the situation is identical - the cardinal tetra has looked at death's door throughout this time (bloated, protruding scales on his belly and spine, protruding eyes) but has a fantastic knack of escaping capture on the various occasions I've decided to hospitalise him for treatment. Somehow he lives on, and every morning and any time during the day when I look in the tank, I look on the base of the tank near the filter first as I expect to see a body, then get a surprise to find him alive. Something feels ethically/morally wrong not to be treating him in the hospital tank with eSHa 2000 but, equally, he refuses capture and I reckon if I had moved him successfully on any of these attempts, he would have died on the day. So, contrary to any advice I would offer others, for some reason this seems the best course of action in this case. Photo attached - he's the washed-out one on the top left.

Matt · « **Reply #31 on:** July 17, 2020, 12:43:43 AM »

If a fish is evading capture is normally a good sign - it’s when they don’t fear the net that often things are in a bad way. Agree that your approach seems sensible. I also note that I posted a few months ago about the quality of cardinal tetra I’d bought recently with losses shortly after introduction to the tank. I do personally wonder if there are genetic issue being introduced through their popularity etc.

fcmf · « **Reply #32 on:** July 17, 2020, 08:30:59 AM »

Thanks, Matt. As it happens, although capture was evaded even yesterday evening (thought I was in with a chance as he'd moved higher up in the tank nearer to the surface - but escaped down to his pals on sight of my jug), it wasn't this morning. He had developed a fungus on his head, possibly from his left eye, and was starting to float somewhat as though weak. In fact, he almost voluntarily swam into the jug and his shoalmates didn't make any effort to intervene. He's now in the hospital tank (already set up for a week) with eSHa 2000 (1 of 4 drops for very soft water) - but not very hopeful of the outcome given his sudden weakness.

Completely agree with your other point about the quality of cardinal tetras, judging by what I've seen/read lately.

fcmf · « **Reply #33 on:** July 17, 2020, 11:13:23 AM »

Update: Sadly, it looks as though the little chap has passed away since I last looked in the tank 90mins ago. He's upright on the sand, propped up against some decor, but I think the slight swaying movement is caused by the current. Either way, I think I'll leave him for a bit, just in case he's in the process of passing away, as at least it's extremely peaceful and without interference from any inquisitive tankmates, buffeting from a more powerful filter, or any need for intervention on my part.

A couple of hours later: death confirmed as he's turning golden in colour.

I thought I might feel bad, wondering if I could have saved him weeks ago with treatment, but the difficulty attempting to catch him and everything else makes me feel as though he probably survived far longer than he might have done had I been more forceful at attempting to catch and hospitalise him. This way, he had a lovely quality time with his shoalmates/tankmates to the end, didn't dispute capture this morning and nor did his tankmates intervene to prevent it, seemed ok in the hospital tank this morning, and had the most peaceful passing possible (and least traumatic for his tankmates and for me given that I couldn't even be sure if he was dead or alive). I may feel differently in time and have regrets but I do feel this is what he wanted.

Matt · « **Reply #34 on:** July 18, 2020, 08:04:40 PM »

Sorry to hear this @fcmf

The forum moderation team seems to be going through a bad spell with three of us having fish passed away in as many days $:-\$

I think your take on his peaceful end sounds very accurate and it absolutely should provide you with some level of comfort. I also try not to get upset when fish pass in similar comfortable circumstances - it just seems like a very natural thing to me.

They say bad things come in threes so fingers crossed for more positive fishy news for us all soon!

LeakysLab · « **Reply #35 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:34:01 PM »

It’s sad to hear this news @fcmf and I echo @Matt s comments that a few of us have had losses recently.

I can only provide you with comforting words in time like this, we all strive for the best care and love for our pets and that won’t change.

Having seen some positive comments and posts it always reminds me never give up and enjoy every moment

fcmf · « **Reply #36 on:** July 22, 2020, 05:57:51 PM »

Thanks, both, for your lovely kind words.

At the moment, I'm making the most of having 3 healthy cardinals, a healthy but elderly harlequin rasbora, one remaining hyperactive neon green rasbora with the very bent caudal peduncle, and two nerites. The tank looks very bare, especially when the harlequin and cardinals congregate together at one end, but the fish don't appear to be perturbed by their reduced shoal sizes (touchwood), possibly by virtue of it happening gradually as opposed to suddenly.

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Cardinal Tetra - A Few Odd Features

Cardinal Tetra - A Few Odd Features

Author Topic: Cardinal tetra - a few odd features (Read 20654 times) 36 replies

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