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Opinions On What To Add To My 64L

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Offline suzie61

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Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:31:32 PM »
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Hi,
Ive not mposted for a bit. Had my tank for nearly a year - a couple of inhabitants have come and gone... goodness knows where I went wrong with the shrimp?!
The tank has now been settled a while but I am missing a "feature" fish as it were or something...
I have:

7 neon tetras (got 7 in case I lost a Cpl early on but they all still with me!)
5 cory cats
2 mollies (was 3, now one is slightly harassing the other - and anyone who gets in the way of dinner!)

Not had a good time with dwarf gouramis although characterful!
like the look of coolie loach although a "hider". dwarf rainbow? sword fish? or do I just get extra mollies to break up the pestering?
Thoughts welcome...

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 07:43:08 PM »
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Dwarf rainbows are shoaling fish so you'd need half a dozen or so, and having had them once I would say they are too active for 64 litres.

The thing that does concern me about your present fish is that you have soft water fish (neons) and hard water fish (mollies).
How hard is your water? It would be easier to suggest fish suited to your hardness if we knew what it was  :)
 Look on your water company's website, your hardness should be on there somewhere. Tell us the number and the units, as they could use any one of half a dozen different units. Then we'll be able to suggest fish.

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 07:50:49 PM »
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I have relatively hard water. I'll have to look it up again for numbers (as you say, everywhere quotes different units! so I cant remember what it was).
I was going to add I have 3 live plants doing well, two anubias and erm... a taller one, not an amazon.... oh Ive forgotten that too!
Will look up the water, but I know its hard...

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 07:54:56 PM »
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298 mg/l total hardness, degrees german 17, Degrees English (or Clarke) 21

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 08:01:43 PM »
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You have hard water so you need more hard water fish. Hmm, the problem is I have soft water so I know more about soft water fish  ;D

@Littlefish do you have any suggestions for hard water fish that would be OK in 64 litres?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 10:08:39 PM »
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I was trying to think about what would be suitable when I realised that I had some links stored:-
https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/new-fishkeepers/list-of-fish-suitable-for-high-ph-and-hard-water/msg27326/#msg27326
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm

Now it's a case of narrowing the lists down to those suitable for smaller tanks, what works with the fish already in the tank, and what @suzie61 likes.

In general it's not a bad idea to increase numbers of existing fish. I quite like the look of dalmation mollies.
Platies are colourful, but they do tend to breed a lot, so stick with single sex.

What sort of fish do you like?

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 03:00:56 PM »
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I do find it fun watching the shoaling fish but on the other hand my gourami had quite a personality!

Ive just been browsing a LFS and saw the endlers - small enough to have a few, quite cute!
The Community creator says the swordtails are too big for my neons and corys :(

My son wants to get 2 dwarf gouramis (shop selling in pairs - I thought that unless both females that wouldn't be a good number!?)
And still the kuhlis/coolies? appealed - odd looking shy things!
Oh, and hillstream loach I saw today!? Do they need plenty or friends or is 2 ok? I read they like fast flowing oxygenated cooler water...I have two filters running and have kept tank slightly cooler with aim of not baking any future shrimp I might ever purchase.

The problem is there are so many options to "fill" the last bit of space.
One of my mollies is black, the other dalmation, I do find "health checks on fins" tricky on the spotty molly though!! lol

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 03:28:07 PM »
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There are two problems with dwarf gouramis - they need soft water and you have hard water; and they are commonly infected with the incurable dwarf gourami disease by the time they reach the shops.

Personally, with your hardness you'll have more success with hard water fish rather than soft water fish. That does rule out all gouramis I'm afraid. And kuhli loaches are also soft water.

Hilstream loaches need cooler water than most fish and fast flowing water. they are not really compatible with most other fish on sale. Littlefish has set up a special tank for hillstreams and a few other species that share the same water needs.


In fact of the fish you have just mentioned, endlers would fit the bill nicely. Males do come in a variety of colour patterns. You could also look at platies if you like swordtails as platies are similar but smaller.

Some of the fish in the genus Pseudomugil would like your water http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/search/pseudomugil particularly P. furcatus.


The problem is that there are very few 'centrepiece' fish with personality that like hard water  :-\ Some of the killifish like hard water though a lot of them need biggish tanks. Have a look at these
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nothobranchius-foerschi/
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nothobranchius-eggersi/
though they might be hard to come by

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 06:45:32 PM »
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Hi, thanks for the suggestions, I like all of them!

Its difficult to remember all the facts and options when in the shop - even with a list! They always seem to have different options than the ones you shortlisted - or a different genus that you cant remember the facts for!
The think fish profile details the dwarf gouramis with tolerating H, VH water - the others are softer liking. is this an error?

might have to back to the shop next week for another browse!

Online Matt

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 07:19:59 PM »
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Seriously Fish recommends hardness from 2 to 18 degrees. I think the TF profile might need an update!!

18 is about 300 mg/l so just like your water.

I'd let @Sue confirm all of the above before you rush in.. she is better placed than me with regards to chemistry knowledge.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 07:28:06 PM »
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I am a big fan of hillstream loaches. They have a great way of moving and seem to be fine in a group. However, mine are in a 1.5 meter tank created to reproduce the actions of a river, and are doing well with a mix of fish that prefer the same conditions.
Therefore, my answer would be "get a bigger tank" as this would give you more options.  ;)

When you are at the LFS don't be shy about taking pictures of the labels, as when you get home the information is handy if you want to look them up and see if they would work with your fish.

Endlers and platies are very colourful. My experience with platies is with the variatus platies, which are temperate fish, and don't come in the range of colours that the tropical platies do. I currently have only females, as mixing the sexes will do you no favours in a small tank (they breed all the time).

The fish that Sue has listed are beautiful, and you can get P. furcatus from Maidenhead Aquatics, if you have one near. They are on the website, so if you don't find them at the store you can ask a member of staff about ordering them in, if you want them.




Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2017, 10:07:44 AM »
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Bigger tank!  ;D ;D  I'll mention it to the other half... :rotfl:
(although, seriously, I know of what one sat idle! but don't think I have the spare space in a suitable spot!)

I will go armed with a list next week!  :fishy1:


Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2017, 10:27:09 AM »
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I first found Thinkfish in 2006 when it was on the old host. I know the date because I joined 2 forums at the same time and the other one has the joining date in my profile.
With the exception of pygmy cories, which was recent within the last year, all the fish profiles on Thinkfish were already here in 2006. They may have been considered accurate when they were written, but things move on in fish keeping. I always use Seriously Fish for information on any given species as that site is constantly updated.

I am not infallible  :yikes:
I was under the impression that all gouramis were soft water fish, but I have now looked on Seriously Fish and discovered that dwarf gourami hardness range is 2 to 18 dH, or36 to 321 ppm. So I looked at my second go-to site, FishBase, and they say 5 to 19 dH.
I have to confess I am most surprised  ;D

But my comment of dwarf gourami disease still stands. This alone puts me off dwarf gouramis. if you really, really want them, look at all the fish in the shop tank. If any are a bit thin, or have sores on them don't get gouramis from that shop.
Some shops only sell males because females 'are so plain and boring no-one will buy them'. If you find a shop like this, go somewhere else.

Online Matt

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 04:51:18 PM »
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FYI if anyone's interested...

You can see your registration date in the members section which is searchable (top right) and shows numbers of posts, date registered, and position (largely determined by number of posts) amongst other things.

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2017, 05:04:54 PM »
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That's the newer version of Thinkfish, I joined the older one in 2006. There aren't many of us left from the old one now though...


Have you noticed who was the first member to join after the site came back in 2012 ;D I don't count Peter as he was the owner of the site back then.


Online Matt

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2017, 05:10:06 PM »
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 :isay:





 :raspberries




Seriously Sue... this place wouldnt be anything like the helpful, caring, knowledgeable place it is without you

 :cheers:

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2017, 05:23:11 PM »
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Thanks for the advice - its my 11 yr old that really likes them!
My first gourami died after he inflated balloon like, he never got to a stage where he scales stuck out as in dropsy pictures though. The 2nd was within a week of buying him. He had no obvious symptoms of anything - except he died, obviously!    The first one had an interest in what was going on and liked to play in the sand - lovely to watch.
The LFS I went to Saturday did have both boys and girls but as I say only had a price for pairs! But if I wanted a male I would think Id need two females or just him, neither combo makes a pair! lol

I may just get another mini shoal of something, they're good to watch. The shop had a wide selection but I was being pestered by children  :(
...hmm smaller killifish...very colourful
Ps. I agree with Matt! (maybe minus the  :isay: !!!)

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2017, 05:40:01 PM »
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Dwarf gourami males are among the species that can harass a female to death if he wants to breed and she doesn't. The usual recommendation is 1 male, 2+ females. But a 64 litre tank isn't really big enough. And as you've discovered, the shops that do sell females only sell them as pairs. This is very common but I have no idea why they do this as all other gouramis are priced per fish.

Your previous experience with dwarf gouramis is why so many people won't touch them. That just dying shortly after purchase is all too common, I'm afraid.




The sad part is that I had over 4000 posts on the old forum and they were all lost when the site changed host  :'(

Actually the  :isay: is quite accurate. Today is my 40th wedding anniversary  :o



Online Matt

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2017, 05:52:02 PM »
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I really like the look of rocket killifish at the moment but I'm not sure i have the space in my tank.  You dont need a large shoal of them and they stay near the surface for much of the time (but not all the time).

Offline suzie61

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2017, 10:58:49 PM »
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Congratulations on the Anniversary! (or do I mean "Well done for making it that far!".... what do you give for a 40th present?! (Ive already run out of ideas)

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 09:37:32 AM »
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We didn't give each other anything except a card  :o But our son and daughter-in-law found a box of 'Romeo and Juliet' wine - Romeo is prosecco, and Juliet is rose spumante - which is pink if not red.
It is quite hard to think of red presents - except rubies of course  ;D And I can't think of any red fish that would be suitable for my tank  ???

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2017, 09:59:15 AM »
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Congratulations @Sue and I hope that you both had a lovely day yesterday.

Offline Sue

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Re: Opinions on what to add to my 64L
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 08:43:26 PM »
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We did thank you  :) Meal out on Saturday night (son and wife wanted an early night on Sunday for Monday work) and we just lazed around yesterday.

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