Moving Fish Internationally (to USA)

Yeah, it's not looking good.  They really discriminate against pet fish. Pet cats, dogs, even bunnies are just peachy. But apparently fish are not....

So. If we fly out of Madrid direct to the USA on Iberian, it ~looks~ like the fish could ride in the passenger compartment. I'd have to figure out how to get the fish to Madrid, though. I ~think~ Vueling will allow fish in the passenger compartment. So we'd have to take the bus to Edinburgh Airport, then hop on the Vueling to Barcelona, the figure out how to get to Madrid, and then get on an Iberian to the USA.

I'm also checking going to another country by ferry or chunnel to see if there's an airline flying out of one of them that'll take BB & the Boys without having to go cargo. (Or that would let me drop them off at the cargo depot, rather than using a pet shipper. On the other end I'd have to get the waybill, go to customs, get cleared, then back to the cargo depot to get them. That could be complicated if the airport is not close to the cargo depot or customs....)

Yeah, it may be that they just need to go to a good home.  We still have a few months, so I'll keep trying, of course, but once we are literally on the move if anything goes wrong along the way - one officious paper-pusher says "I don't care that they were already approved, they're not flying" - and we'd be up a creek without a paddle.

I'm also checking going to another country by ferry or chunnel to see if there's an airline flying out of one of them that'll take BB & the Boys without having to go cargo.
but once we are literally on the move if anything goes wrong along the way - one officious paper-pusher says "I don't care that they were already approved, they're not flying" - and we'd be up a creek without a paddle.

Amsterdam/KLM may be worth checking.
I agree completely, though, that there are lots of risks such as the one you describe plus standard delays and other unknowns.

The Pre-loved advert sounds like it's a tartan/kilted version of Littlefish with multiple tanks - sounds a promising option.

Keep us posted.
 

@fcmf  those were the dwarf puffers that I think you may have alerted me to.

Yes - I remember that well; so glad it worked out well for them (the previous owners who were gutted at having to part with them, and for the fish going to your good home) and for you! 

Thanks so much!

If I can't take them, though, I do want to see that they go to a good home and would give the tank and equipment with them so that they'd be staying in their "home". 

   I looked at the adverts for people wanting fish to re-home and have to wonder what Big Bertha, etc., would be fed to!  I get reeeeeally bad vibes off of that advert (the Glasgow one).

It's quite a jog from Sandhurst to Glasgow by car (6 and a half hours??). In a pinch, if you are interested in them and I'm not able to take them home to the USA with us, there's always me on the train with them in breather bags in a beer cooler!

Can only be brief (apologies):
* Pre-loved advert's downside is its lack of detail - maybe worth contacting?
* for non-FB users, just need to click on "not now" and can see the full website - but don't see e-mail address;
* quick google for CAS and found this with contact details of CAS's treasurer http://www.tartanguppy.co.uk/information/contact.html

Thanks. 

It's pretty insane. There are no legal or paperwork requirements in the USA for bringing the guys in, other than declaring at customs that they are worth about $1 each, which is well below the amount at which any sort of duty would kick in. There are no vet certs required either to leave the UK or enter the USA. The fish are not prohibited. That one company charging £1,300 for basically a shoebox with some fish in it.... that's robbery!

Yeah.

Just heard from Finnair. No luck - have to use a freight forwarder. So its:

American ... I'm STILL waiting to hear from their Glasgow office. But I'd have to be sure it wasn't codeshare with BA. My expectation is no.

Air France - dogs and cats only.

Aer Lingus - no go. Except as cargo. And I'd have to take the train to another city where the larger AL planes land, as they can't put the fish in the puddlejumpers as cargo.

Aeroflot - no

AeroMexico - only pets on flights of six hours or less

Agean - fish ok as pets in hold, don't do cargo to the USA.

Air China - cats and dogs only

AIr New Zealand - pet shipper.

Alitalia - dogs and cats only.

ANA - no fish

Brussels Air - cargo. pet shipper

Delta - cargo. Requires a pet shipper.

El Al - checking. They allow birds in the cabin....

Finnair -  They allow rodents in the cabin.... No, have to go cargo and require a shipper.

Iceland Air - no

Japan Airlines - pet shipper

KLM  -  only cats and dogs

Korean air - no

LOT - need to contact, website unclear

Lufthansa - pet shipper

Norwegian Air - no pets.

Quantas - pet shipper

Swiss AIr - pet shipper

Transat - dogs and cats only

TUI - dogs and cats only.

SAS - no

Singapore Airline (flys out of Manchester or London) - they take fish as "cargo pets" - that translates to "cargo" requiring a pet shipper.

United - cargo. Requires a pet shipper.

West Jet - no

Some friends moved from Scotland to USA ~16 years ago with a whole menagerie of pets (rabbits, reptiles of numerous sorts, etc). I got in touch with them and their reply was "From what I remember of the process, it was expensive and involved some paperwork. I seem to remember that the plane ticket for the animals cost more than ours! We had to pack them up in a very specific way per the regulations. The animals flew British Airways, I recall. I think it depends on whether the animals are on the CITES list or not as to how they have to be documented." I notice you don't have BA on your list but numerous regulations have probably come in since then, and BA almost always codeshares with other airlines (from what I can gather), so I'm not sure how helpful this is likely to be to you, @Nan, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

Thanks, yeah, I'd checked BA early on. No dice.

The process to bring mammals into the UK is brutal.    You have to bring them in through only Heathrow, I think. (Unless you fly into some other EU country like France and then drive them across through the chunnel to save the money.) There are vet certificates, and all sorts of immunizations and test results that have to happen before they get on the plane. There used to be a 3 month quarantine once they got here - not sure if that's still the case or not - on top of that, and it had to be at an approved facility. (I had looked at moving over here about 20 years ago and had a pet cat at the time.)  And mammals back to the USA... not as bad, as the UK is considered a "rabies free" country. Most airlines require a health-check, but that's about it.

CITES shipments are a whole 'nuther level of complex, yes. (Amazing what I've learned about moving animals around the world while trying to find out how to get our fish home.)  And then there are shipments of animals of all varieties via an EU country. Where EU regs kick in.

The big problem with sending them "cargo" is that while "pet" fish theoretically should just be able to sit in a shoebox under the seat in front of me in the cabin, with no paperwork or intervention required, "Animal Cargo" has all sorts of requirements, including Vet inspections, special paperwork, etc., etc., etc.   It's the pet-shippers/cargo company that jack up the prices, not the airline. The cost to have a pet in the pet baggage hold is a couple of hundred pounds, pretty much, across the board. But once it becomes "cargo".... £1,300.

Now, if I lived near an Air Canada facility I could take the fish directly to the Air Canada freight center and drop them off. And if there was an Air Canada facility in the USA near when we'd be I could go to that place and get their paperwork, take it to the US customs office, get it stamped, and then take it back and pick up the fish.

Unfortunately, there's not an Air Canada freight facility in the UK, apparently. And the closest one on the other end is Toronto. Which I'd be willing to fly into, pick the kiddies up, and hop an Amtrak down to the States and carry on from there.

So, still trying.

Your timing is impeccable. 

Though probably easier to transport a fish than a human at the moment. 

So, now that all of the corys are in the big tank, with the small tank packed for the move back, they're having a great time. So great that they are breeding en masse every couple of weeks. It's kind of epic when they all start at once.        It looks like the fish that were in the little tank were all females and they are now mature enough to breed. I guess that makes me a fishy great-grandmother now?  Big Bertha and the Boys are still doing well.

We are still stuck in Glasgow. And it looks like we will be for some time, since the USA is actually behind the curve we have here. So things will get better here before they get better there. How I'm ever going to find movers... but that's all to deal with later!

I have been able to find a bottled water that has a pretty decent mineral content (Highland Spring Water) and so I add a couple of litres of that to the tank after I've had to vacuum out the eggs, to kind of supplement what is not really in much of a supply here in our drinking water.  The fish are thriving.  The one that lived out the first month or two of it's life in the filter is still with us.

Hope you folks are all well and staying safe.