Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: AndreaC on September 30, 2014, 02:59:28 AM
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Hi all :) Okay so my tank has FINALLY cycled. Last night I did all my usual tests and then it occurred to me that I hadn't actually tested my pH :o When I did it came in at 7.6 which I know if on the slightly high side... I'm going to start off by getting some male guppies which I know will be fine with that pH but then I'm going to add honey gouramis, cories, otos and rams and I know the rams especially prefer a lower pH. I do have a piece of driftwood in my tank which is supposed to lower the pH but I was wondering if there's anything else I can do to lower it without putting anything in my tank that will further discolor the water? I really, really don't want to give up on having rams so any advice would be very much appreciated :)
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Someone asked this not so long back and I'm sure they are using peat moss in the filter. Maybe worth looking at that thread.
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I did see that, but when i googled using peat moss it seemed like it colors the water quite badly and i'm really hoping to avoid that if i can
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Futzing with your pH is really, really not worth it unless it's way off to one side, it's far more important to keep the pH stable.
A pH of 7.6 is fine for the majority of fish, it's the GH that you need to be aware of but again, we're talking extremes here. Rams like that on the lower side and guppies like it on the higher side, but if you aim for the overlap which will be about 8º to 10º then you'll be fine. Tank bred fish are raised in 'average' water and aren't as picky as wild caught fish.
What's your GH?
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The problem is that it's generally the tannins released by things like bogwood, peat, certain leaves etc which are acidic and reduce the pH but then it's also the tannins which colour the water. It's difficult to get one without the other. Running carbon in the filter is supposed to help remove the discolouration but then it's not really advisable to run carbon permanently (and it's unlikely to completely remove the discolouration).
I'd avoid adding chemicals to try and some the problem as this is likely to give you pH fluctuations so it perhaps leaves you with the option of using something like RO water (although I don't know a lot about this - someone else will be able to better advise).
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Ooh I actually have no idea what my GH is. That's general hardness, isn't it? How do I find out? I did look up RO water and I think it's going to be an expensive option but i will look into it if there aren't any other options :)
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Ooh I actually have no idea what my GH is. That's general hardness, isn't it? How do I find out?
Your water supplier will have a web-page somewhere on their site that you put your postcode into and they'll give you the water stats for your area.... probably in ppm.
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I know Andrea lives 'down under' - do water companies there put things like hardness on their websites?
Failing that you could always ask a shop to test it, but in this case make sure you ask what the number is and what units they are using. I can think of 5 different units for measuring GH, there may be more.......
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I know Andrea lives 'down under'....
Oops - I forgot that!
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Haha I've actually moved from New Zealand to Australia, so to me I'm fairly far north! I spent ages looking today and couldn't find any information about our water hardness so I will go get it tested before I put any fish in :) I should probably start a new thread for this, but obviously my tank is fully cycled however I know that a lot of fish need to be introduced to a mature tank. I want to keep guppies, rams, honey gouramis, cories and otos- is there a particular order that I should add them to the tank?
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I would wait to add the rams just because they can be delicate fish. And wait till you have grown some algae for the otos. Other than those, you should be OK with the rest.
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Okay, so I finally found the number to call to find out what the general hardness of my water is. The lady I spoke to said it varies between dGH 5.1 and 10.6. Does that mean anything to anyone? It seems like a huge variation and that'll be because we get our water from different sources throughout the year.
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That makes sense.... it's a fairly soft to medium variation. You should be alright with the majority of fish in this, but I'm afraid the guppies won't be happy in 5º.
If the water source changes quickly from 5º to 10º then, as long as you don't do a huge water change, your usual water change regime will affect a gradual change between the two.
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You might be better doing 2 smaller changes (say 15%) a week instead of one larger (say 25%) change.
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Does that mean I'm better to rethink the guppies? and will the rams be okay in that?
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The rams would be very happy in the 5 deg end of the range, but less so at the 10 deg end. Though if you could get rams that have no wild ancestors for several generations, they would be fine even at 10.
Most south american tetras would be fine in that hardness too if you want to swap similar sized tetras for guppies.
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The Rams should be fine.... but I'd rethink the guppies. 5º GH is too low for them.
It's said that soft water fish are more tolerant of harder water than hard water fish are of softer water. This is because of the osmosis that goes on between the fishes body and the surrounding water. The fish is 'saltier' than the tank water - so pure water passes from the tank water into the fishes body - it doesn't need to drink. (In the sea the sea is saltier than the fish, so water passes from the fish to the sea, so the fish has to drink salt water and process it to get the water it needs - so it's more easily poisoned by impurities.)
If you put a hard water fish into soft water there is an even bigger difference between the tank water and the fishes body water, and the osmotic pressure goes up - to the detriment of the fish. If you put a soft water fish into harder water, the fishes body water is closer to that of the tank water and the osmotic pressure goes down - this is less harmful.
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The Rams should be fine.... but I'd rethink the guppies. 5º GH is too low for them.
It's said that soft water fish are more tolerant of harder water than hard water fish are of softer water. This is because of the osmosis that goes on between the fishes body and the surrounding water. The fish is 'saltier' than the tank water - so pure water passes from the tank water into the fishes body - it doesn't need to drink. (In the sea the sea is saltier than the fish, so water passes from the fish to the sea, so the fish has to drink salt water and process it to get the water it needs - so it's more easily poisoned by impurities.)
If you put a hard water fish into soft water there is an even bigger difference between the tank water and the fishes body water, and the osmotic pressure goes up - to the detriment of the fish. If you put a soft water fish into harder water, the fishes body water is closer to that of the tank water and the osmotic pressure goes down - this is less harmful.
As informative as this forum is that is a fantastic post and very interesting! Puts me at rest for the cardinals I really want to keep but concerned that I have hard water!
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Hmmm okay thank you for helping me with this before I got any fish! If I'm going to keep electric blue rams and honey gouramis does anyone have a suggestion regarding what small fish I could have? I do tend to like barbs more than tetras and I definitely don't want any blue or yellow fish because I'll have those already lol my tank is 60 L :)
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I know you said you prefer barbs to tetras, but how about ember tetras? Pale washed out orange in the shop but bright orange red when they've settled in your tank. Or Microdevario kubotai (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/microdevario-kubotai/) if you can find any. Also known as neon green rasboras - they are green.
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Gosh what good suggestions Sue, thank you :) I have seen ember tetras and didn't think much of them because in the stores they've always looked so pale but if they brighten up then it seems as if they will look similar to cherry barbs? I have never seen the neon green rasboras but after looking at the pictures of the ember tetras I would really like to get some. How many should I get?
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Attached is a blurry pic with some bright orange red little fish - those are my ember tetras.
You'd need at least 6, with more looking better. Have a play with the community creator and see how many would fit.
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Gosh your tank looks so lovely! The community creator said that 6 was about all I could have in there so six it will be :) Now I just have to wait for pay day lol