Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: barneyadi on March 21, 2020, 07:00:20 PM
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Hi All
My two smaller tanks are going great. No fish losses and the guppies are looking great in tank 2 and the Harlequins etc are doing great in tank 1.
But having problems with tank 3. Checked my water parameters just now, ammonia and nitrites are 0pmm and nitrates 20ppm, which is near tap level. But keep loosing a fish every couple of days. There is no sign of illness so wondering if I am missing anything. Only 2 barbs left now so worried about stress but with this Covid thing I cant get out really.
Any ideas what might be wrong?
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Have you done a big water change since you started loosing fish? It is likely to be hard to diagnose this one... but water changes should always be the first port of call...
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been doing 25% changes, but will do a larger one and see what happens
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Do a big 80+ percent one and that should help dilute anything harmful that might be in there.
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...having problems with tank 3. Checked my water parameters just now, ammonia and nitrites are 0pmm and nitrates 20ppm, which is near tap level. But keep loosing a fish every couple of days. There is no sign of illness so wondering if I am missing anything. Only 2 barbs left now so worried about stress but with this Covid thing I cant get out really.
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Hi @barneyadi
A few questions for you:
1 How are you measuring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Which test kits are you using?
2 What is the KH, GH and temperature of your water?
3 Any chance of a piccie of your tank?
4 Do your fish display any unusual behaviour before losing them?
5 Which tap water conditioner do you use?
JPC
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...having problems with tank 3. Checked my water parameters just now, ammonia and nitrites are 0pmm and nitrates 20ppm, which is near tap level. But keep loosing a fish every couple of days. There is no sign of illness so wondering if I am missing anything. Only 2 barbs left now so worried about stress but with this Covid thing I cant get out really.
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Hi @barneyadi
A few questions for you:
1 How are you measuring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Which test kits are you using?
API test kit
2 What is the KH, GH and temperature of your water?
4gh, 25c
3 Any chance of a piccie of your tank?
Will sort one out.
4 Do your fish display any unusual behaviour before losing them?
Not really
5 Which tap water conditioner do you use?
Seachem one
JPC
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Sorry to read about this.
Just to be certain, you mean Seachem Prime or some other Seachem product as your tap water conditioner?
Did you cycle this particular tank with mature media from an existing tank? (Think you did but just want to be certain.)
Is it just the guppy tank that you were adding the Aquadur to?
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Yes, using Seachem Prime.
All cycled ok, and as ammonia etc are nil can't see a problem there.
Just the guppy tank with Aquadur. That one is fine. So is other 125l tank. Just the 200l one playing up.
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Hi @barneyadi
I'm a tad confused. You previously said "Only 2 barbs left now..." but this now appears to be the Guppy tank. Perhaps you could explain.
If this is a tank in which you only have Guppies, your water hardness is way too low if it's only 4dGH. In order to correct this, you would need to add a lot more Aquadur. I suggest you gradually increase the GH (and KH) by adding the same amount of Aquadur that you used when first setting up the tank. Please also let us have the GH and KH of your tap water. You will need to check the GH and KH of your tank water after every addition of Aquadur. If you are unable to measure KH, then so be it. But, perhaps you have a pH test kit. If so, then please take some measurements.
You are ultimately aiming to get GH to approximately 15dGH. It may be possible to achieve this target today.
I'm around all day so please keep us updated every few hours.
JPC
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Hi @barneyadi
I've gone back over your thread again and I am confused. I suspect that what I have suggested immediately above does not apply to the tank in which you have problems. Please clarify.
JPC
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Sorry if, by asking for some clarification, I have confused matters, @jaypaycee.
Barneyadi has 3 tanks:
Tank 1 - 125L - (not experiencing problems) - harlies, etc.
Tank 2 - 125L - (not experiencing problems) - guppies (in which he uses Aquadur as his own water is soft NB only using it in this tank).
Tank 3 - 200L - (experiencing problems) - black ruby barbs.
It's Tank 3 (black ruby barbs) that is experiencing the problems with fish deaths. As his own water is soft, it ought not to be a problem for the black ruby barbs, and there's certainly nothing else from his responses that's leaping out at me that might point to the reason for his problems.
Personally, aside from larger and more frequent water changes to ensure that stress and any stress-related hormones not measurable on test kits are reduced, I can't see that there is anything else to advise.
There's a possibility that KH is so low that it's caused a PH crash but I would have thought Tank 1 would also have been affected in that case and I do think it's unlikely. What does your water supplier say your PH is and your CaCO3 or German degrees hardness for your postcode area, @barneyadi? This might help us work out whether that's a possibility.
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Hi @fcmf
Thanks for the clarification. OK, I'll wipe the slate clean and start again.
We do need a figure for the KH of the water in Tank 3. I'm thinking on the same lines as you - namely, the possibility of a pH crash or crashes. As the GH in Tank 3 is 4dGH, it is likely that KH is even lower. Obviously, a pH measurement would also reveal a lot. I'd also find it useful to know the KH and GH of @barneyadi 's tap water.
JPC
Edit at 1705 22/03/20: What else is in Tank 3 in the way of substrate, plants, wood, etc?
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PH 7.4
KH 3 drops
GH 5 drops.
Apologies lost instructions for test, sure someone can confirm actual values.
Tap water same readings.
Just sand, a few plants and 3 slate hideaways.
Have seen something for stress, does it work?
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Apologies lost instructions for test, sure someone can confirm actual values.
Tap water same readings.
Have seen something for stress, does it work?
Hi @barneyadi
Lost instructions for which test and which values?
When you say "Tap water same readings", are you saying that your tap water has the same readings as the pH, KH and GH of the Tank 3 water?
I am unable to advise about stress treatment if I don't know what it is. But, so-called 'stress' treatments should not be necessary.
JPC
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Lost instructions for kh and GH test. Know how to do test but I know the drops mean a certain figure, that's the bit I lost.
Tested both tank and tap water and got same reading s.
So KH is 53ppm and GH is 89.5ppm.
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What is the brand of the GH and KH testers? Most of them use the scale 1 drop = 1 dH, but some use a different scale.
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What is the brand of the GH and KH testers? Most of them use the scale 1 drop = 1 dH, but some use a different scale.
Its the API on so is the 1 drop to 1dh type.
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Yes, it's the 1 drop = 1 dH type :)
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PH 7.4
KH 3 drops
GH 5 drops.
Tap water same readings.
This all seems fine to me and wouldn't account for the black ruby barbs' deaths.
So KH is 53ppm and GH is 89.5ppm.
Where have you got these figures from? Presumably not the test kit?
Are all 3 tanks in the same room? Is or has there been anything in/near Tank 3 that might account for the fatalities such as anything from this article https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/toxic-shock-the-everyday-chemicals-that-can-kill-your-fish/ ?
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Found the instructions online, that's where the figures come from.
Tank 3 is on its own. Nothing in the article jumps out at me. Might just be a water change thing, but figures seem ok. Will see if there is anything else I can think of.
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Have you been using any sprays/candles/similar in that room?
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Have you been using any sprays/candles/similar in that room?
Only thing I have used is little pots of water based acrylic paint for plastic models. Also built two stands from MDF which came ready to assemble. They do have a slight odour to them, but lost a fish or two before I got them.
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What else is in Tank 3 in the way of substrate, plants, wood, etc?
Hi @barneyadi
It is necessary to have the above missing information. And, in the event that you may have plants in your tank, do you use any plant fertilizers? Any lead strips weighting any plants down? Any artificial ornaments? We need to leave no stone un-turned, if you'll excuse the corny pun!
JPC
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What else is in Tank 3 in the way of substrate, plants, wood, etc?
Hi @barneyadi
It is necessary to have the above missing information. And, in the event that you may have plants in your tank, do you use any plant fertilizers? Any lead strips weighting any plants down? Any artificial ornaments? We need to leave no stone un-turned, if you'll excuse the corny pun!
JPC
Hi
Just a sand substrate, a few plants and some resin and slate decorations. Not used fertilisers yet
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Only thing I have used is little pots of water based acrylic paint for plastic models. Also built two stands from MDF which came ready to assemble. They do have a slight odour to them, but lost a fish or two before I got them.
On the basis of all the info we have so far, I'd be inclined to think this is stress-induced. The loss of a fish or two, and especially the use of even small amounts of this paint (unless the room has had its windows open for a considerable duration during and afterwards) and any banging/knocking involved in the building of the stands, could be more enough to induce sufficient stress to cause further fatalities. [I certainly know how my fish have reacted in the past to heavily/faster-footed visitors in the room, painting (took my goldfish a week to recover), the flicker of a non-scented candle, and even the sound of something carefully laid down nearby - jumpy for the remainder of the day at best, the week-long recovery at worst.]
It is altogether possible that these were a bad batch of fish but it's helpful to look for any other potential explanations and I'd think this is the strongest possibility we have yet.
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Hi Folks,
I'd be inclined to temporarily remove the resin decorations. I'm nervous about unnatural stuff in an aquarium. But, if necessary, pre-soak them for a good few days before adding to the tank. Just to be clear, how many Black Ruby Barbs were first added to the tank and how many died?
JPC
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had 8, lost 1 very quickly, then everything was running smoothly but then lost 1 every 2 to 3 days and now 2 left.
The resin decorations I have had for a while, the slate ones are new but fish loss started before adding them. Was one reason I brought them as fish were slightly skittish and thought more hiding places were needed.
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Hi @barneyadi
I've run out of suggestions. It's never a satisfactory conclusion, is it?
Sorry but I am unable to help any further.
JPC
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Hi @barneyadi
I thought I'd run out of ideas but, last night, another train of thought trickled through my aged grey matter.
Have you done any chlorine measurements - of your tap water, your tank water or both? If so, could you let us have the figures for Tank 3, please?
JPC
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Hi @barneyadi
I thought I'd run out of ideas but, last night, another train of thought trickled through my aged grey matter.
Have you done any chlorine measurements - of your tap water, your tank water or both? If so, could you let us have the figures for Tank 3, please?
JPC
Hi
How do I test for chlorine?
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The 5-/6-in-1 test strips (eg JBL, Tetra) have a chlorine test on them. However, you might find this thread and mention of a test useful: https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/tap-water-residual-disinfectants/msg48581/?topicseen#new
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Hi @barneyadi
I thought I'd run out of ideas but, last night, another train of thought trickled through my aged grey matter.
Have you done any chlorine measurements - of your tap water, your tank water or both? If so, could you let us have the figures for Tank 3, please?
JPC
Will get a test. Water company says residual chlorine is 0.91 and residual chlorine free is 0.86. will get some rest strips to double check.
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Hi All
So I am still oozing fish in my large tank, down to 1 now. Water tests are fine, done water changes etc and still hasn't helped. However, i have to plan for the worse, so if i loose my last fish, how can i keep cycle going. Got ammonia, so how much should i add?
This quiet time has also given me time to look at all my tanks. The guppy tank i am happy with, cant wait to add more once we can get out. The tank with the large piece of wood in, im just not happy with. i might change the wood for a smaller piece or some rock or a bit of both. Tank three, the large one could come down to if i loose my last fish. Was going to have Barbs in the tank but thinking i might go for a tetra tank, but not giving up on single fish just yet.
I can order fish online but will wait and have a longer think about plans etc.
Keep well everyone.
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Hi @barneyadi ,
Sorry to read about this. If the tank were fully stocked and then suddenly lost all the fish, I would imagine that, in this article https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/fishless-cycling-how-to-do-it/, you'd follow the guidance at 14 ie "If you can’t get to the shop as soon as the cycle has finished, add the one-third dose every 2 to 3 days to keep the bacteria fed, then do the big water change just before you go fish shopping." In your case, though, your tank will having been losing beneficial bacteria over time as fish have died, with only enough to support the fish you have rather than a tankful of fish. So, for that reason, I'd imagine that you might have to re-start a fishless cycle - but it's likely to go more quickly than previously if bacteria are dormant rather than completely dead, and especially if you can add in a little mature media from the other two tanks. Others with more experience of fishless cycles may be able to advise better than me, though.
Glad the guppy tank is going well. Looking forward to hearing what you decide to come up with for the other tanks in terms of scaping and inhabitants respectively.
Take care in the interim.
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Will get a test. Water company says residual chlorine is 0.91 and residual chlorine free is 0.86. will get some rest strips to double check.
Hi @barneyadi
What were the results of your chlorine test(s)?
JPC
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They were fine @jaypeecee
One of thing, I had taken sand out of one tank and left it in black sacks for about a month, could the sand be anything to worry about. Cant see why, but thought id ask.
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It could be yes, is there any gas released when you disturb the substrate?
I’m not sure I would want to keep the cycle going as such in the tank... given what has been happening I would be tempted to strip it down and start again...
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It could be yes, is there any gas released when you disturb the substrate?
I’m not sure I would want to keep the cycle going as such in the tank... given what has been happening I would be tempted to strip it down and start again...
No gas released if I disturb the substrate.