Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: Diz1 on September 11, 2015, 04:48:15 PM
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Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice from all you fish experts out there!
About 4 weeks ago, I decided to get a pair of honey gourami for my 180 litre juwel rio.
I went to out new branch of Maidenhead aquatics and the staff picked out a pair for me. One of them was yellow with the blue chin that denotes breeding colours. The other was also yellow, with a lateral stripe running along the body.
Everything was fine for a few days, but then the male with the blue chin (which is a lot smaller than the other one) stopped blowing bubbles, lost his colour and started to hide in the plants at the bottom of the tank.
It soon became obvious that he was being bullied and the other honey gourami was the culprit I watched it happening. I now think that the bigger fish is an non-nuptial male (looks exactly like the picture and description on Seriously Fish).
I was very worried and the little male looked in a very bad way, so I separated them. The little male went into my shrimpery, which is the only other suitable tank i have. At first things looked very bad. He also got a fungal infection, which i successfully treated with ESHA 2000.
This little gourami has completely recovered and has been very well behaved with the shrimp and I'm now looking to get him a girlfriend. I would also like to get a girlfriend for the non-nuptial male in the 180 litre.
Should I go ahead and get 2 females (one for each tank) and if the male in the 180 litre still bullies, will two females be OK with the male in my other tank (which is 60 litres).
Also, if the non-nuptial male in my 180 turns out to be female after all, will 2 females be OK in this tank?
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Honey gouramis are just about the least aggressive regarding males and females. They can be kept as pairs, unlike dwarfs, three spots etc. And a pair can be kept in a tank smaller than 60 litres so you can add a female to that tank with no problems. Two females, 1 male should also be fine in 60 litres if the worst happens.
The 180 can take 2 or even 3 more female gouramis, and if the one already there does turn out to be a female with aggressive tendencies, having a few of them will spread out any aggression - similar to keeping female bettas, 1 is OK, 2 and 3 are bad numbers, while 4 or more are fine.
The only time I had problems in about 15 years with with honey gouramis was once when I had a trio of them and one female kept attacking the other. Females can be aggressive if they are that way inclined!
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Hmmm,
Thanks Sue. I wonder if this is an overly aggressive female then – though it is definitely yellow and not brown or silver in colour.
I think I'll take your advice and get 2 females and if bossy boots doesn't calm down, I'll just keep the trio in the 60 litre.
Thanks again
Diz :)
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There are different colours of honey gourami - do you mean the aggressive one is yellow all over or more of a deep gold colour? I prefer the natural coloured gouramis (golden tan male, silvery beige female) but the last few I had, I could only get the yellow coloured ones.
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Hi Sue,
The definite male is the same as the picture in the fish profiles on this site, except he's now lost the blue chin colour.
The other is a lighter yellow, but with deeper tan fins. It has a dark lateral stripe as well. it is just like the description on Seriously fish:
"Non-nuptial males possess a similar lateral stripe but the base body colour is slightly orangish, and the anterior portion of the dorsal and anal fins have yellowish margins. In nuptial individuals the body and opercular region become bright orange with the head, anterioventral portion of the body, and spiny rays of the anal-fin coloured dark blue to black."
But then again, it is much larger than the male, so I just don't know :-\
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Yellow with deeper coloured fins sounds like my yellow gouramis. I'm attaching 2 photos for you to compare - my last honey gouramis.
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The bossy one does look just like the second picture, so maybe a female after all?
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That pic was definitely a female. Also with the yellow coloured fish, males have the orange extending into the body at the back, not just the fins.
You may well have a bossy female. Just because they are females doesn't necessarily mean they aren't as aggressive as males.
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Yep, definitley a female going by your picture and description.
Would she be best just left on her own in the 180 litre, while I get another female for the male in the 60 litre?
I'm thinking that if she is just very aggressive, she won't accept any other honey gourami in with her. She's very peaceful with the other fish though
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Since it is a female that's being aggressive, I would keep her alone in whichever tank you prefer. If you'd had 2 males I would have been happy about getting more females for both tanks, but since the aggressor is female and she bullied a male, she could well do the same to all honey gouramis you put in with her - especially as she will now regard the tank she is in as hers.
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OK, I'll just get one female for the 60 litre tank. I was hoping that the ones in the 60 litre might breed, though it's probably a bit unlikely.
Bossy boots will just have to live in the 180 litre without a partner. She's a lovely looking fish though and very healthy, so I'm pleased with her. :)
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A quick update,
I've now introduced the female gourami to the 60 litre, which she'll share with the little male.
Went to a different fish shop this time, and they're very sure it's a female, so here's hoping. :)
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Another update,
As mentioned above, I added a definite female honey gourami to my 60 litre tank containing the previously bullied male from my main tank (which left bossy boots original female on her own in there!).
It took less than an hour for the bullying to start in the 60 litre – this time, the male nipping the female.
I left them overnight to get acquainted, fully expecting to come down to a dead female the next morning.
Thankfully, she was still alive, but resting on the bottom and looking very stressed.
This meant that my options were extremely limited, as the female in the main tank had already proved how bossy she is, but I really hate seeing my fish suffer.
After a couple of hours I decided that the only thing to do was to try the 2 from the 60 litre in the big 180 litre to see if more space would make them behave better. I put the female in first and left the male for a couple of hours then added him as well.
Fingers crossed, they seem to have settled much better. There's been no more chasing or nipping and I feel that if the male does get amorous, then the female will have enough space to get away (I hope so anyway).
So, I now have one very bossy female in the 60 litre. She's not happy. If a fish could look outraged, then that's what she looks like!!
As I said, I hate seeing my fish suffer, so I'm now wondering if I could get another female in a week or so and add it (plus bossy boots) to my 180 litre. That would give me one male honey with a harem of three. Would that work?
As ever, thanks for any advice
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The pair you have moved to the 180 should be fine in a tank that size. Yes, the male will chase the female when he wants to breed but in my experience it will result in just a nipped tail fin which will grow back and look as though there has never been any damage.
However, miss bossy :-\
She will get over the move. Eventually. As long as she does no damage to the other livestock in there, that's fine. But I do worry about putting her back in the 180 even with more females. The only problems I ever had with honey gouramis was with a trio and one female picked on the other. If she really is an unusually aggressive female she would likely pick on every other gourami you put her with.
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Oh dear!
Thanks Sue. I do feel very sorry for her. She's fine with the other tank inhabitants, but she's zooming up and down looking furious! She's actually spending most of her time at the corner of the tank nearest where I sit and she's wiggling up and down in front of me as if to say "Oi, do something!"
I love having my fish, but sometimes they do my head in !!! >:(
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It is quite common for fish to swim up and down the glass when they first go in a tank. I suspect it is because they can't see the glass and want to swim beyond it, especially if the fish has been in a larger tank. She will soon learn that there is an invisible barrier there.
My betta is a victim of this. He doesn't know about glass so when he saw a snail apparently swimming mid water near his bubble nest he went mad at it and divided his time between blowing bubbles and trying to frighten off the snail. Once the snail moved onto the sand or some decor, he calmed down and ignored it. If it wasn't 'swimming' near his bubble nest, it wasn't a threat. I had to move the snail out of the tank.
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Thanks Sue,
She'll have to get used to it I suppose, there's nowhere else for her to go. I don't like the thoughts of giving her away and not knowing if she'll be looked after properly. :-\
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Well, my poor bossy honey gourami female has not settled in the 60 litre tank. She spends all of her time in the corner, swimming up and down vertically and hardly ever uses the rest of the tank.
Today I contacted someone from the local facebook group, who I've bought fish from before and she's going to take Bossy Boots for me.
I think this is the best solution to the problem. BB will be going into a 4 foot tank with some cories and tetras, so she'll have even more space than she did in my 180 litre and her new owner really likes the honies and has promised that she won't sell her.
I'll be sorry to see her go – she's quite a character, but I do think she'll be much happier. The way she's behaving just reminds me of one of those poor demented tigers you see in zoo enclosures that are too small, just pacing up and down all day.
I know they're only fish (or so some people say), but I couldn't think of her continuing like that for the rest of her life! :(
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Sounds like you've made the best choice for her long-term well-being.
You'd only feel guilty seeing her unhappy every day.
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I hope so.
My tanks are in my office, so i'm in there all day with them. The 60 litre is on my right-hand side, and out of the corner of my eye I can see her constantly swimming up and down in the corner. It's really no life to speak of and i can't just ignore it. Trust me to get a very bossy individual of one of the most peaceful community fish species!! :(
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Definitely agree that you've done the right thing. [Probably not a good analogy but, when I moved those final 3 pygmy cories into the QT last weekend, they started that swimming up and down the tank side vertically, before they suddenly deteriorated - the stress of the smaller tank may have been one of the factors that contributed to that sudden demise. Thankfully, your honey gourami is still healthy, but I think having her in her new environment will reduce the stress levels, so that hopefully she can continue to remain healthy, rather than potentially falling ill due to the stress and succumbing quickly.]
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Thanks fcmf,
I was sorry to here about your little cories, but I think you're right, when fish are unwell, then further stress can tip them over the edge.
I think with my gourami also, it's only a matter of time before she'd go downhill in the 60 litre. It's surprising really because both the CC here and Seriously Fish say that 60 litres is plenty of space for Honies. Perhaps, like Sue says, it's got more to do with the fact that she was in such a large tank by comparison.
Anyway, The lady who's taking her is very experienced and all the fish I've had from her have been in lovely condition, so hopefully BB has landed on her fins (fishy equivalent of feet?)! :)
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BB is away with her new owner, who's promised to send me an update tonight to let me know she's OK.
Thanks to everyone for putting up with my neurotic blethering on about her and who agreed that I was doing the right thing. :)
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Great; do let us know the update.
There was no neurotic blethering. We're all here to share our experiences and offer suggestions, alternative thoughts to consider, views on courses of action being considered, advice, and generally help where we can, no matter how big or small an issue is. Reading of others' experiences along their fishkeeping journeys helps us all enormously in our own.
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Thanks fcmf!
Will let you all know how she's doing :)
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Well said fcmf
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OK, last word on this subject and I'll shut up, I promise!
Just been sent a video and some lovely pics of BB by her new owner.
You wouldn't think it was the same fish – she's cruising about the whole tank looking totally chilled. I'm very happy!!
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Great news! :cheers:
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That is absolutely wonderful news! How nice for you to be sent the video & pics. Good to read of a happy ending. :fishy1:
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I'm sorry things didn't work out for her in your tanks, but you did your best for her and found her a new home. The new owner sounds a caring person for more than just the fish, sending you a video of BB in her new home :)
And as the others have said, there was no neurotic blethering. Trying to understand the way fish behave is a great challenge, especially with individuals who don't conform to 'typical' for that species.
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Thanks Sue,
I was absolutely thrilled to see such a change in her behaviour in such a short time.
These wee fishies go through so much don't they? And to watch her be so uncomfortable and stressed was something I found very difficult.
Thanks again everyone! :)