Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: BlindDogStanley on February 23, 2016, 11:45:11 AM
-
Hello, I recently bought a 60 cm wide 54 lite tank. I did a little research online so I knew that the tank needed to be cycled, however I went to my local aquatic shop and was told that I should not cycle the tank with fish and the fish-less cycle takes an age. However he could recommend a product that will cycle the tank immediately - ATM Colony. I presumed a local business would be giving sound advice, so I bought it along with 6 white mountain minnows, 6 neon tetras and 6 lampeye panchax. Luckily I purchased the NTLABS Aquarium Lab as after 36 hours the ammonia rate went up to 0.5 and after 4 days nitrite levels reached 0.5, although the ammonia was then reducing. I've since done a 80% water change and a 30% water change and the levels seem to be under control (ammonia 0, nitrite between 0.1-0.2 after 7days). Obviously the number of fish in the tank at the moment is too high for conventional cycling, but I only have one tank so I'll have to persevere with the regular (almost daily) water changes. So the product ATM Colony seems to have sped up the ammonia eating bacteria but not so successful with the nitrite eating bacteria, I do wished I'd stumbled upon this site before going to the local shop to avoid a stressful few days :(.
That's the background and thanks to the various forum posts I was able to avoid a tank of dead fish :).
So the query I have is that my internal filter has a rating of 300 litres per hour so is larger than required for the tank, which I don't mind but the flow is really fast and cycles quickly across the surface and rolls round at the other end of the tank. Is this OK for the fish I'm keeping and the plants I have?
Also, I'm not entirely sure what temperature I should maintain (currently 25 C - 26 C), I understand the minnows tolerate lower temperatures.
Thanks in advance.
-
25-26 should suit all your fish, although it could go a little lower. I tend to look at the range of temperatures my fish need and go for somewhere in the middle.
Can you adjust the flow of the filter?
-
Thanks for that about the temperature. There's no way to adjust the flow rate, it's a cheap filter that came with the aquarium, heater etc. I just really want to know if it's OK for the fish and plants. The fish seem to love it, darting in and out and I have made few caves for shelter and there is a quiet zone below the filter that they sometimes congregate in.
-
The minnows don't just "tolerate" lower temperatures, they prefer it. All of my tanks are at 22- 23 degrees and I've never had any problems. The saving in electricity can be considerable, though it won't make much difference with only one tank. Most of the information about conditions fish need are just passed without question from one book or web site to another without question, even if they are wrong.
I would say your filter relative to tank size really is rather too powerful for most fish. You can slow down the rate (assuming it can't be adjusted) by tying a piece of foam over the exit. Most fish can cope with fast flow but they do need a rest, forcing them to endure it at all times is likely to stress them out. The flow at the bottom of the tank should be much slower than at the top, that's how things are in nature and most fish stick close to the bottom in fast water to get out of the flow.
-
The only plants that might have a problem with a fast flow rate would be things like amazonian frogbit. I've got quite fast flow rate and the vallis and hygrophila just grow with the flow :)
What plants do you have?
-
Hi BDS,
Welcome!
Your experience seems to be fairly typical of what happens – often, generic pet shops have not heard of the fishless cycle or tend to say that leaving the tank alone for a few days is the fishless cycle, while aquatic shops tend to be more aware of what it involves but often dissuade from it for what sounds fairly plausible reasons, especially to someone fairly inexperienced. In terms of sound advice (or lack of it), what is of particular concern is that they sold all 18 of those fish at once in conjunction with knowing that you’d be doing a fish-in cycle albeit with the aid of that product – if they’d sold one of those shoals (probably not the neons which are best suited to more mature aquariums), then that would have been more sensible.
However, well done for keeping up the regular water testing and water changes which are and will be crucial to try to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, and nitrates low (ideally under 20 if at all possible). The evidence for products such as ATM Colony, Tetra Safestart, Fluval Cycle, etc, is quite variable, so keep bearing that in mind and keep up your regime of water testing and water changes over the next month to six weeks, just to ensure that no “spike” occurs when you might be least expecting it or just when you think that all is safe – there is a greater degree of risk of exposure to ammonia/nitrites and high nitrates with fish-in cycling than with fish-less cycling, hence the need for scrupulous monitoring, and especially with that number of fish.
A few specific suggestions/queries:
• I’d recommend doing the testing at least twice a day eg first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening and, if at all feasible, during the daytime as well.
• What size of daily water changes are you doing?
• What water dechlorinator are you using? Seachem Prime has the advantage of detoxifying the effects of any ammonia/nitrates/nitrites on the fish for 24hrs, and it might be an idea to use that for the next while at least until you’ve got through the cycling process, after which you could always return to using whatever other product you may have bought.
• Underfeeding (eg half a flake per fish per day) during this time, so 9 flakes per tank, would also be wise, in order to minimise the amount of ammonia produced by the fish.
As for the internal filter, what you could do is cut a piece of aquarium sponge to fit in the filter nozzle and keep it in place with one of those twisty wire things (sorry – forgotten what they’re called!) that goes round the top of a loaf of bread. Alternatively, a spray bar can help.
Hope this helps.
-
Ok thanks Richard, I'll drop the temperature a couple of degrees. Do you mean "special aquarium foam" or something like a kitchen sponge (not a used one)? The flow at the bottom is slower and the dwarf hairgrass don't move around much, but plant debris flows along quite fast at the lower end of the tank indicating a significant flow.
Hi Fiona, the plants I have are dwarf hairgrass, cabomba, vallis, ludwigia and bacopa and I have some dwarf arrowheads coming soon. The vallis aren't growing with the flow particularly well! They look a bit dull but all the rest look bright and healthy.
-
You might find you have problems with the dwarf hairgrass but that's more to do with its growth requirements than the water flow. All the rest should be fine. What type of vallis is it? I have NEVER been able to grow the twisted variety, it just dissolves!
-
Yes fcmf, thanks for the information. I now wish I'd spent a few hours rummaging through this site prior to going to the shop. However there's not a lot to do about it now apart from avoiding said shop. I have been testing 2-3 times a day for ammonia and nitrite and once for pH and nitrate. So far I have done a 80 % water change (yesterday) and a 30% (2 days ago). The levels this morning were as follows:
pH - 7.5
NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0.25
NO3 - 5.0
KH - 13
I received a bottle of Seachem Prime in post today, so will add that to the water change. With those levels I was thinking of another 30% water change today? I'm feeding them very little (minute pinch that is gone in about a couple of minuets )every other day, is that about right?
Fiona thanks for that, it's not twisted vallis and it came to me looking a bit off colour so maybe it just needs some time.
-
I received a bottle of Seachem Prime in post today, so will add that to the water change. With those levels I was thinking of another 30% water change today? I'm feeding them very little (minute pinch that is gone in about a couple of minuets )every other day, is that about right?
Excellent re Seachem Prime, and suggestion for feeding sounds about right although you might be better giving half that amount every day ie that is eaten within one minute. 30% (or indeed anything up to 50%) water change is probably fine, if that can get/keep the ammonia and nitrite down to 0.
-
Broadly speaking, there are two types of sponge: those that hold water and those that allow water to run through. You need the latter for adapting a filter.
And some kitchen sponges come impregnated with detergent or antibac. Make sure you use just plain sponge with no additives.
With pH 7.5 and a temp of 25 deg C, you can allow the ammonia to reach 1.0 without harm to the fish - I've just used an ammonia calculator to work that out ;D Lowering the temp a degree or two will make it even better.
In case you've not found it yet, ammonia in water exists in 2 forms, toxic ammonia and less toxic ammonium. The amount of each varies with the pH and temp and there are calculators to work out how much is in the toxic form.
Nitrite is different as there is no less toxic form so that should be kept below 0.25ppm.
-
Thank you Sue, I may just order the sponge online to be safe. Ammonia is at zero at present and I'm testing for nitrite on a regular basis.
Thanks for all your speedy replies. I'll post a photo of my aquarium setup in the gallery, sometime.
-
I'll post a photo of my aquarium setup in the gallery, sometime.
Excellent; looking forward to seeing it.
-
Sympathies with the need for frequent water changes. I over cleaned my filter once and started off a mini cycle and ended up doing water changes twice a day. It'll all be worth it in the end though.
-
I've reduced the flow with a small piece of kitchen sponge (brand new without cleansers etc). That's fine, I'm now wondering about the position of the out flow. At the moment it's about 1 cm below the surface. My question is should it be slightly above the surface to cause a gas exchange or will this occur with it underwater? I do have a separate air pump and air stone that I turn on every day but without this would there be enough oxygenation from just the filter?
On a side note I'm still doing 25%-50% water changes every other day to control the nitrite. At the moment I've had 0 ammonia for 7+ days. Nitrite is 0 after a water change (plus Seachem treatment), .25 after one day and .5 after two days. Are these still the expected levels after a in fish cycling for 3 weeks? If you don't remember I was given erroneous advice from my LFS and they sold me an "instant" cycle treatment and 18 fish, so I've been cycling the tank with far too many fish ::). The fish themselves appear fine. I'm really hoping the cycle will finish soon :), but am aware it could be sometime.
-
I suppose what I'm saying is this normal?
-
As long as the filter is causing the water to flow across the surface, that will oxygenate it enough. The idea is to move the water that is at the surface at this moment across the tank, down the side opposite the filter and across the bottom of the tank back to the filter. This continually pushes oxygenated water to the bottom of the tank and pulls oxygen depleted water to the surface.
The nitrite eaters can only start to grow once the ammonia eaters have started making nitrite. The nitrite eaters always lag behind. It is generally accepted that once it appears it takes twice as long for nitrite to drop to zero than it did for ammonia to drop to zero.
6 weeks is considered average for both fish-in and fishless cycles - though usually with fish-in you have fewer fish than you do and that 6 weeks is just growing enough bacteria for the few fish. You then have to build up slowly till the tank is fully stocked. Starting with a lot of fish, it could take longer than 6 weeks :-\
-
Ok, thanks Sue. I thought as much but needed confirmation. I'm prepared to wait and continue the water changes. I've just ordered another nitrite testing kit as I've nearly exhausted the previous one :o. My little fish are doing fine with this regime :).
-
I've just completed the weekly water tests and the results are as follows:
Nitrite: 0.25 mg/ l (ppm) This is a little confusing as it states Nitrite NO2-N mg/l (ppm). To convert NO2-N to NO2 multiply by 3.3 which would mean NO2 of 0.825 (much higher than I've been expecting)
pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0 This could be effected by the Seachem I've been using with the 30%-50% water changes, but has been zero for 7+ days.
GH: 16 (284 ppm)
KH: 9 (160 ppm)
Nitrate: 2.5 mg/ l (ppm) Again it states convert NO3-N to NO3 multiply by 4.4 which gives a reading of 11
How do these figures look and can anyone confirm which reading for nitrite and nitrate I should be using? As in NO3-N or NO3 and NO2-N or NO2?
Thanks in advance. :)
-
You should be using the higher values.
There are 2 ways of expressing the concentration - as ppm or mg/l of the whole NO2 and NO3, or as the concentration of just the nitrogen (N) part. The majority of test kits measure the whole NO2 and NO3; yours is unusual in measuring just the N. The concentrations in all the cycling methods I've ever seen use the whole NO2 and NO3.
UK water companies also use the whole NO2 and NO3 in their water quality reports.
So your tank readings are nitrite = 0.825 and nitrate = 11.
Nitrite is a bit on the high side, try to keep it below 0.25 on the NO2 scale, which would be 0.075 on the N02-N scale.
Your nitrate reading is also quite low - most people have more than that in their tap water. Have you tested your tap water to see what yours is?
-
Thanks Sue. The nitrate for my tapwater was about 1.5. The scale on my test kit reads 0 = white and then levels of pinkness getting progressively darker - 2.5, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 mg/i (ppm). So it wasn't on the second scale of 2.5 but a lighter pink. I can't get it more accurate than that so the nitrate for my tapwater (after conversion) is approximately 6.6. What's level should it be? I thought it didn't matter if the nitrate reading was low.
Yes the nitrite is too high. I have been using the lower figure which meant the day after a water change I thought the level was 0.25 when in fact it was 0.825. So I think I need to start doing the water changes daily rather than every other day along with Seachem treatment.
I'm thinking I may need a more accurate testing kit. I have the NT Labs Aquarium Lab at the moment, but I quite often have to guess the reading as it's a shade of colour in between the scales. With the way I have to re-calculate the readings for nitrate and nitrite the results may be inaccurate.
-
I have the API testers, they use whole NO2 and 3. The nitrite scale has colours for 0, 0.25, 0.5, 1.0, 2.0 and 5.0. This makes it quite easy to see when to do a water change. Nitrate had bigger steps - 0, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 and 100.
Nitrate isn't nearly as important, but the lower the better and if the tap water nitrate is low it means you can keep the tank nitrate nice and low as well. My tap water nitrate is between the 0 and 5 colours (whole NO3 scale). In some areas it is around 40.
Your tank nitrate should be pretty close to your tap nitrate with having to do lots of water changes. Once you are cycled, the guideline for telling if your water changes are big enough is keep the nitrate from ever getting to tap water level plus 20 on the whole NO3 scale; with the N scale that would be tap plus 4.5.
-
As you know I'm cycling with far too many fish in. I started the process around the 16th Feb. Since 22nd Feb I've consistently had zero ammonia. PH has remained around 7.5. But the nitrite levels rise rapidly 24 hours after a water change (Seachem wearing off as well), so I presume that I've still a fair way to go?
I downloaded a summary water quality report from my water company for my town (Wessex Water). They do over 40 tests and nitrate came in as minimum 30.71 mg/l to maximum 38.81 mg/l. When I've tested the tank water it's been between 11-22 mg/l. I know Sue has mentioned it's difficult to get accurate results from home test kits for nitrate, but I'm not even at the base level for the water company. I tested today and it's possibly 22 mg/l or a bit lower. Any ideas as to why it would be so out or is the test just inaccurate? I'm using the NT Labs Aquarium Lab and you add a nitrate reagent and a nitrate disc and wait 10 minutes and check the colour against a chart.
-
As you know I'm cycling with far too many fish in. I started the process around the 16th Feb. Since 22nd Feb I've consistently had zero ammonia. PH has remained around 7.5. But the nitrite levels rise rapidly 24 hours after a water change (Seachem wearing off as well), so I presume that I've still a fair way to go?
I downloaded a summary water quality report from my water company for my town (Wessex Water). They do over 40 tests and nitrate came in as minimum 30.71 mg/l to maximum 38.81 mg/l. When I've tested the tank water it's been between 11-22 mg/l. I know Sue has mentioned it's difficult to get accurate results from home test kits for nitrate, but I'm not even at the base level for the water company. I tested today and it's possibly 22 mg/l or a bit lower. Any ideas as to why it would be so out or is the test just inaccurate? I'm using the NT Labs Aquarium Lab and you add a nitrate reagent and a nitrate disc and wait 10 minutes and check the colour against a chart.
The bit in bold, did you mean nitrite or nitrate?
-
The API Nitrate test dropper bottles are actually quite consistent I find but I do shake and thump the Bottle 2 for at least a minute before adding the drops. I haven't looked back through the thread but have you tested the tap water both when it's fresh from the tap and then after resting for 24 hours?
-
Your tank nitrate - is that figure converted for whole nitrate - you mentioned a few posts ago that your test kit measures only the N part not the whole thing. Water companies use the whole-thing scale.
What does your tap water nitrate come out at with your tester? If it's the same as the tank, there is obviously a discrepancy between your tester and the water company's results. But if the tap water is the same as the water company, and higher than the tank, something in the tank is causing it to fall.
-
Paddy, yes I meant nitrite. :) I haven't tried letting the water stand for 24 hours, does that effect the result?
Sue, the figures are after the conversion as in the "whole-thing scale". Today the tap water was 22 mg/l or under as the shade of pink the water in the test tube was in between 2.5 and 5 mg/l NO3-N so to convert to NO3 multiply by 4.4 and you get max 22 mg/l. So a range between 16.8mg/l and 22mg/l. The maximum I've ever had for the tank water was 22 mg/l. So considerably different to what the water company is stating so my test kit for nitrate is not very accurate. If my tap water is really between 30 mg/l and 38 mg/l can I presume the tank water will be higher, I can't remember why nitrate levels rise, is it to do with the waste produced by the nitrite eating bacteria? And what would be an unsafe level of nitrate?
-
The process is:
ammonia is made by the fish as a waste product. Bacteria in the filter and on other surfaces use this ammonia as food, and their waste product is nitrite. A second species of bacteria lives in the filter and on other surfaces which uses nitrite as food, and their waste product is nitrate. So all the ammonia made by the fish as their equivalent of urine ends up as nitrate - once there enough ammonia-eating and nitrite-eating bacteria in the tank.
Since your tap water reading is different from the water company's values, put it down to our test kits not being the most accurate. It is difficult to make a really accurate nitrate tester for use in the home.
Instead, use your readings for both tap and tank nitrates. Unless a tank is heavily planted (plants use nitrate as fertiliser), the lowest a tank nitrate can be is the amount of nitrate in the tap water used to fill the tank.
When a tank is cycled it is usual to do weekly water changes to remove nitrate and other substances secreted by the fish that we can't measure. During the time between water changes the nitrate level of the tank gradually creeps up as the ammonia continually being excreted by the fish gets turned into nitrate. If there aren't enough bacteria of one or both species to make nitrate it stays constant; and if the fishkeeper is having to do daily water changes to keep ammonia and/or nitrite at safe levels, nitrate won't go up much.
The best way to use nitrate results is to follow a trend in the tank. Once your need for water changes slows down so you can go longer between them you should find the tank nitrate increasing, though the rise might be too small to measure accurately. It's once the nitrite slows down that you should start to see nitrate rising.
As for unsafe nitrate levels, it depends on who you read.
There are some species of fish that are intolerant of nitrate but reading up on fish before you buy should tell if if the fish you want are one of those species.
Some sources say that nitrate is only harmful in the hundreds ('whole-nitrate' scale) while others are now saying anything over 20 is not good.
But as a rule of thumb, once a tank is cycled, the fishkeeper should aim to keep the nitrate level from exceeding tap level plus 20, 'whole nitrate' scale. If it gets higher than that he has too many fish or he is feeding them too much (food decomposes to make ammonia which is converted to nitrate) or the water changes aren't often enough or they aren't big enough. Or a combination of those.
It's only really necessary to test the pH of water that has been left to stand. The others change hardly at all, if any at all. pH is different because water companies tend to add things to the water supply. In hard water areas they might add carbon dioxide to the water to acidify to try and prevent limescale deposits in the water mains. On standing, the carbon dioxide gasses of and the pH changes. In soft water areas they may add chemicals to increase the pH to prevent corrosion of any metal parts in the system.
Since the water in the tank has been standing a while, it is useful to know if your tapwater does change on standing, and if it does, by how much.
-
Thank you Sue. You've explained it perfectly, thank you.
I do now have quite a few plants; the sellers I have used seem to send a lot more than they advertise :) I probably have 4-5 different types of plants and upwards of 30-40 plants, I'm guessing this could be the reason for the low nitrate if the plants use it as fertiliser. But with daily water changes it should not be an issue. The plants are mostly small (5-10 cm), reasonably healthy but I guess as the tank is not cycled and established it could be having some influence.
Could I be storing up a future problem with this amount of plants in a 60 cm x 30 cm x 30 cm tank? As I keep saying all inhabitants of the tank seem fit and healthy (apart from the white spot issue), I'm monitoring daily and doing regular water changes.
-
I'm not sure it is possible to have too many plants :)
Provided there is room for the fish to swim and you bear in mind the needs for fertilisers of various types, the tank will be fine.
Don't ask me about fertilisers, ask someone who knows what they are doing ;D
edit - I should also have said that plants use ammonia as fertiliser as well as nitrate, so plants that are growing well can also help with a fish-in cycle.
-
I'm not sure it is possible to have too many plants :)
I totally agree. :cheers:
Not only does lush planting look great, but the fish love it, it really helps keep algae in check and removes nitrates.
As for feeding plants, let the plants tell you if they need extra feed.
If they're thriving then there's no need to add fertilisers.
If they're lacking something they let you know.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/97/c5/a897c5f5484f7609f44e22f7edca0ad4.jpg)
-
I'm not sure it is possible to have too many plants :)
I totally agree. :cheers:
Not only does lush planting look great, but the fish love it
Yes it does. I've admired the photos you have posted Extreme_One and thanks for the flow chart thingy :).
I was more worried about them upsetting the cycling process but from what you've said Sue I have nothing to be concerned about. Thanks :)
On a separate issue, I want to get some nerite snails, but was advised to wait until the tank is fully matured. When the tank has cycled would 5 nerite snails upset the bio-load of my tank?
-
The reason you need to wait is that snails (and shrimps) are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite. Once they have definitely gone, snails will be OK in the tank.
With 54 litres, if you want the large ones like the brown and beige stripey ones (zebra nerites) or the orangey red ones with regular black markings, go for 3. With the small ones like the horned nerites (plain brown or black/yelllow stripes, both with spikes) or bee nerites (black/yellow stripes without spikes) 5 would be fine. Snails do not much to the bio load but they do poo a lot especially if you have real wood in the tank as they like to graze on it.
The main problem with plants was during the old method of fishless cycling where you added 5ppm ammonia every time the reading dropped to zero. That level was high enough to burn plants. The newer fishless method uses less ammonia and it is dosed less often. With fish-in cycling the levels are not allowed to get high enough to harm plants as that high would also kill fish. And if they are growing well, they'll help a fish-in cycle by using some of the ammonia. It's when plants start to die that they can do harm because dying plants rot to make more ammonia. Keep an eye on your plants and remove dead bits.
-
Thanks Sue. I'll (hopefully) get some soon. Well the plants are growing as is the algae, but there still seems to be some unhealthy looking leaves.
I appreciated the flow chart Extreme_One. I'm still finding it difficult to be certain what the deficiencies are. So I see from another of your posts you recommended Easycarbo & Profito, so I've bought 500 ml bottles of each for £15.95. I'll let you know how that goes.
Back to my in-fish cycling. The light is at the end of the tunnel :). Ammonia has been zero now for a month and now nitrite has been zero for 6 days :). I've just had to do the second dose of a re-occurrence of white spot. So I'm going to dose again at 7 days this time.
So it seems the tank is nearly cycled, six weeks after being badly advised at LFS. This had made caring for the fish very stressful and if it wasn't for encouragement and excellent knowledge from you people out there I'm sure some, if not all my fish would now be dead. Instead I have 18, seemingly, very happy little fish :cheers:
-
Awesome news that you are nearing the end of your cycle. 8)
You could have done without the incorrect information from your LFS, but you have done a brilliant job of dealing with the situation, which I'm sure has probably seemed never ending at times.
You rock. 8)
:cheers:
-
Just one more day of zero nitrite and you will officially be cycled :) Well done for seeing it through without casualties.
Whitespot can come back if just one bug isn't killed. I once had to do three courses of treatment one after the other :(
-
I appreciated the flow chart Extreme_One. I'm still finding it difficult to be certain what the deficiencies are. So I see from another of your posts you recommended Easycarbo & Profito, so I've bought 500 ml bottles of each for £15.95. I'll let you know how that goes.
The recommended dose for the ProFito is 10ml per 100L per week, so 5.4ml per week for your 54l tank.
If I were you I'd dose 1ml daily for simplicity.
With the EasyCarbo I'd stick with the recommendation for 1ml daily.
Good luck, I look forward to hearing how you get on.
-
If I'm reading it right, you have only planted the tank up recently. You'd expect the plants to lose some leaves at first, it takes a while for them to get going. That's a more likely explanation than a deficiency. The first virtue in setting up a tank is patience in every regard.
-
Thanks Sue, couldn't have done it without you :)
Richard the plants have gone in over the last month. The last one about two weeks ago. You're of course right about patience as I've found out doing a far too many fish in cycle :)
Thanks for the dosing schedule Simon. I will keep you all informed. When I borrow or buy a decent camera(only have a phone camera that never focuses on what you want it to!) I'll post a photo.
:cheers: all
-
You need to wait at least a couple of months for your plants to establish before you conclude they need fertiliser. You may just encourage algae if you add ferts when the plants aren't growing strongly. Most "aquatic" plants are in fact marsh plants and are grown for sale with their roots in water but the tops out. They grow much faster this way as they are not limited by carbon dioxide, there's always enough in the air. It's a shock to them when we then plant them submerged and it takes a while for them to adjust.
The other question concerns your substrate (I can't remember if you mentioned it). If it's just an inch or two of gravel, especially if it's coarse, you will find it much more difficult to grow decent plants than if you use some additive (soil, compost or special plant substrate) to make it more suitable.
-
The substrate is a coarse sand (2mm granules) about 4cm deep at the front of the aquarium shelving towards the back up to 10cm deep. The amazon sword are developing new leaves but plenty look unhealthy, the Staurogyne Repens have a little new growth and some die back, the hairgrass is hanging in there - mostly dead but a few fresh strands, the sagittaria subulata has just done nothing and has some dead strands and the (many) crypts have not grown but look happy enough. The vallis melted completely and has come back with a few shoots and the feathery tall plant (hornwort?) initially died back and now looks the healthiest of them all (I've already managed to take successful cuttings of it). I've tried to remove as much dead/dying foliage as possible. Quite a lot of plants altogether as the ebay sellers I bought them off gave me way over the advertised numbers of plants 8).
So Richard, If I just leave them alone for another month and take stock then?
-
Delighted for you and the fish that you've made it through the fish-in cycle, BDS. Your commitment and perseverance following the poor advice from the LFS has paid off - well done! :cheers:
-
BDS I'm not surprised you lost or are losing some of your plants, things like hairgrass are quite hard to grow. I learned this the hard way. Initially I bought plants that I liked the look of, without consideration to their growth needs. I actually spent a lot of time trying to grow these plants with the set up I had and failing, rather than looking for plants that suited my set up.
You can get a really lush look with the simplest of plants.
-
Yes, I'd just wait and see what happens. Hairgrass is difficult, crypts are very slow but tough, expect them to live but it will take a while for them to get going. Often a tank the size of yours will look better with fewer species growing well rather than a lot of different types. Some will win, some will lose.
-
Delighted for you and the fish that you've made it through the fish-in cycle, BDS. Your commitment and perseverance following the poor advice from the LFS has paid off - well done! :cheers:
Thanks fcmf :)
I agree Fiona and I'm going to take Richard's advice here and let the tank settle and mature over the next month or two and see how the plants cope.
Zero nitrite today....Hooray! :)
I would like a few points clarified:
a) Currently I'm testing for nitrite every day, ammonia every 3 days and I test for PH,GH,KH,NO3,NO2 and NH3 every week. Should I continue this regime of testing or can I reduce it?
b) Do I leave the filter media completely alone at the moment. It looks a bit grungy at the moment but I'd hate to wash it (in tank water) and ruin the bacteria balance.
c) If the nitrite and ammonia stay at zero how often and at what volume should the water changes be?
-
If the filter media looks disgusting, squeeze sponges very gently in old tank water. Just aim to get the worst off. If you have sponges that were white when new, they'll never be white again. And blue sponges go a purply colour. If you have ceramic media, just swoosh the container gently in old water. The biofilm where the bacteria live won't be fully established yet hence the need to be gentle.
You can drop off the testing. Maybe test for ammonia and nitrite every 3 or 4 days till you know they are staying at zero. Then once a month, then whenever you remember, or get new fish, or if the fish start behaving differently from usual.
Nitrate can be used to see if you are doing enough water changes. Test just before a water change and see how much higher it is compared to your tap water.
Once your plants start to take off, you don't need as many or as large water changes compared to a tank that has fake plants. Be guided by the plant people for water changes :)
-
The sponge was dark grey, now murky brown. I'll carry out a small water change and squeeze it lightly in the water. I've noted your other points too, Sue :cheers:
-
job well done BDS :cheers:
Do be gentle with the sponges, I've triggered a mini cycle in the past with an over enthusiastic sponge cleaning session
-
Congratulations :cheers:
May you enjoy many years of admiring your fish after such a difficult start.
Well don.
;D
-
I now have some nerite snails and they're hoovering like mad so the tank is looking good, even the plants are in better shape.
Thank you for all your help along the way! :cheers: