Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: jesnon on June 16, 2014, 03:59:29 PM
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Helloo all.
One of my service users is going to be getting a fish tank. I'm just looking for some advice on what to get for him.
We need to spend as little as possible so I've been looking at second hand tanks online and cheaper set ups. He needs it to be relatively small to go in his room.
Because of this I was thinking a small tank and a betta would be the best idea? That way he just has one fish he can name and he might be able to interact more with the fish. Staff will be helping him to look after the tank and fish and I'm there a lot so have no concerns on that front.
Do you think that sounds like a good idea? Would any other fish be an idea? Are there any particularly good set ups anyone could recommend? What eider would he need for a betta?
Any help and suggestions would be appreciated!
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What eider would he need for a betta?
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Otherwise.... it sounds like a really good idea, to me.
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Sorry! My phone is so bizarre sometimes with auto correct. .. What I meant there was else!! It constantly tries to correct always to airways and I noticed luckily before I posted that it had corrected something to suicide :-s!! You'd think it would go for the most used word but apparently not!
What kind of substrate do bettas need?
I'm planning to bring in some filter from my tank to help cycle the tank we eventually get or see if MA will give us some as that's down the road.
I found one tank that seemed the right size for only 8 pound in my area but haven't had a reply yet
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Bettas need shallow rather than deep tanks (I mean anything except some of the 'designer' tanks) as they need to breathe air and with a shallower tank they don't have as far to go.
For the betta, any substrate is fine; though if you want live plants choose the substrate with them in mind.
Filter - they don't like a flow that is too strong, but there are things you can do to reduce it if necessary.
They need things in the tank to keep them interested. Plants, real or silk; caves, decor they can swim through. But they need to be chosen carefully - silk plants rather than plastic if you go for fake; decor that is not rough or with sharp edges (file them smooth if necessary); and decor that has no holes a betta could get stuck in, because they will.
Food - a betta pellet is the best staple food. I soak mine before feeding as they do swell up. Live (frozen) food a couple of times a week. Don't feed too much. Bettas are greedy fish and will stuff themselves, causing bloat. They beg for food, so don't give in!
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Thank you Sue! What's the smallest tank a betta could be in - am I right in thinking 20L? I think we'll just be getting fake plants and maybe just a moss ball or something just to keep things simpler
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Would a tank like this suffice?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/aqua-optic-aquarium-fish-tank/1065514390
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That tank looks fine. And yes, 20 litres (or 5 US galls) is usually regarded as the minimum for a betta.
Make sure you get silk plants as plastic ones can have sharp edges which can damage a betta's fins. Unless the person who wants the tank is OK with live plants you are better sticking to fake.
Edit to add: nearly forgot - bettas should be kept slightly warmer than other tropical fish. 26/27 C is perfect for them.
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Great thank you Sue will start the ball rolling with this. . I'm a bit excited considering it's not for me haha
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Hi Jesnon :wave:
I think a betta is a lovely idea :) They are so friendly and will come to greet you at the tank. My Rafe was such a beautiful, gentle boy. He used to spend ages making bubble nests too, so don't forget to tell your new fishy owner not to panic if loads of spawny looking bubbles appear on the waters surface.
Other than that and everything Sue has said, the hardest job will be choosing one.....there are some really lovely ones out there....good luck with it all :)
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Thank you Resa! I think I'm going to get very jealous! Hehe.
I'm trying to decide if it might actually be easier for me to set up the tank initially at my house in order to cycle it and then empty it (keeping the filter wet of course) to take to the home (thus sort of doing the big water change). That way I don't have to take the ammonia and testing kits to the house and can keep an eye on how it's running. Hmm. Or it might just be easier to set it up there. If I'm using media from my own tank or MA how long would it take to cycle theoretically? And should I put some new media in my tank in preparation??
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It shouldn't take more than a week with mature media - that's the theory anyway. One betta in 20 litres is not heavily stocked, so you wouldn't need to cycle with 3ppm ammonia. 2 or even 1ppm would be enough. Though I'd go with 2 on the grounds that I'd rather grow too many bacteria than not enough if I couldn't be there every day to test once there is a fish in the tank.
Would you be able to test the tank every day if it was at it's new home? If not, I'd cycle the filter at your home. With mature media, set the tank up, put the mature media in it and add 2ppm ammonia. Test the next day. It might possibly be down to double zeros already. If not, follow the fishless cycling method, it should only take a few days.
Add new media to your filter at the same time you take the old out. Don't take more than a third of yours.
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That would be great if it only takes up to a week, it would be quite a difficult thing to explain why he didn't have his fish yet!
Great advice as always Sue, I think since I won't be there every day it may be best to cycle it at home. Though I could arrange for it to be a week I'm there more frequently I guess. Will let you guys know how it goes!
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I have just cleaned my betta's tank, and that reminded me of something I've forgotten to mention.
I know you have endlers and if they are anything like mine they will show a great interest in what you are up to when you do a water change; so much so there is a danger of sucking one up.
Betta's are just as nosey. While there is no danger of sucking a fish that big through the siphon tube it is very easy to catch their fins and rip a chunk off. I've done it. You can't take your eyes of them for an instant unless you position the siphon tube somewhere they can't get at it, like in the middle of a plant.
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my shrimp like to do the same the thing when i am cleaning the bottom of the tank , they nearly climb into the siphon tube :o
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In the tank with cherry shrimp, I have to go through the bucket of old water with a jug, rescuing the shrimps that end up in there. Everything from full sized adults to tiny babies, usually at least half a dozen. It takes nearly as long to do a water change on that 50 litre tank as it does the 180 litre.
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perhaps its like a day out at the fun fair for them shrimps idea of a roller coaster :rotfl:
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I've wondered that too ;D They are dreadful creatures, they won't move. I have to pinch the tube to stop the water flow then nudge them out of the way >:(
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Thanks for that point Sue!! I have that problem with my endlers, luckily I've never sucked one up in the siphon tube but I'll be extra careful around the Betta.
I'm now a little concerned as I spoke to someone today who referred to Bettas as 'Siamese Dying Fish' and said they had no luck with them... Please tell me that this isn't a general idea of them!? I really don't want to get him a fish that dies really quickly, he'd be devastated!
I asked someone to pick up things for him and they bought a siphon, however I really don't understand how it works! It appears that you're supposed to attach it to the pump somehow??
I think it's an Algarde one like this:
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/fish/fish-tank-equipment---maintenance/fish-tank-cleaning/aquarium-power-cleaner
Unfortunately they also bought a filter for a tank too - I think they must have gotten confused by my note to them / I wasn't clear enough so I need to take these back eventually too. Being a non-car driver I couldn't get the bits myself though! They did good otherwise!
One other thing I still need to get them is a heater. What would be a good inexpensive brand for a 21l tank?
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I've not used that type of siphon tube so I'm afraid I can't help. I'm currently using a wine making siphon tube, minus the cup shaped thing from the bottom. I find it easier on sand.
I have, and have previously had, 25 watt heaters for my betta and quarantine tanks. My tanks are quite shallow so I've had to get short ones. Sera, Visi-therm and Jager all make the right sized heaters but I'm not sure if they are what you would class as cheap.
I've had my current betta since the end of April last year. Yes I have also had some that only lived a few months but I've also had some that have lived over a year. For the very fancy types, 2 years is a good age especially when you take into account they can be the best part of a year old when you get them - it can take that long for the finnage to develop fully so that they are desirable.
But I do wonder if the people who claim they don't live long are keeping them in unheated, unfiltered jars. You hear about some keeping them in 2 litre (half gallon) tanks or even vases :vcross:
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I've had my current betta since the end of April last year. Yes I have also had some that only lived a few months but I've also had some that have lived over a year. For the very fancy types, 2 years is a good age especially when you take into account they can be the best part of a year old when you get them - it can take that long for the finnage to develop fully so that they are desirable.
But I do wonder if the people who claim they don't live long are keeping them in unheated, unfiltered jars. You hear about some keeping them in 2 litre (half gallon) tanks or even vases :vcross:
That's very true! That's reassured me somewhat, I really don't want the fish to die too quickly! Hopefully they'll live a long happy life in his tank!
Thanks for your comments about heaters, I think I'll order one online for him. We're collecting the tank this week, very exciting! In the end I'm going to set it up in his room, but will be taking some filter from my tank. The problem is I'll be travelling around an hour and a half. Will the filter be ok in a normal fish bag like that? Which reminds me I need to get a fish bag too!
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Ahh this is the exact one I think:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Algarde-42150S-Power-Cleaner-Single/dp/B000S5JMZ6
Unfortunately it looks like it doesn't actually remove any water? So isn't really what I'm after! I really don't understand how it works either!!
I think what I might do is buy myself a new siphon (mine has been annoying me for a while!) and give him my current one... at least I know how to use that one!! I don't want to keep spending too much money on everything!
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That siphon, now I have a better picture to look at does seem to be the kind that just 'filters' the water through a bag, removes the muck and puts the water back in. I suppose it's useful if you have very messy fish and don't want to do a water change every day, but you do need to change the water as well at least once a week. And bettas aren't exactly messy fish.
The filter media will be fine for that long in some water. If you have a tubs with a tight lid that you don't mind sacrificing, that would work as well.
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I have a male Betta in a 34 litre tank. I got him last Oct/Nov and he is still going strong.
They must be fairly easy to look after because I am still a novice and I haven't killed him yet. :)
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Good point about using a tub Sue!
And glad to hear more reports of healthy bettas!
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I've seen those syphons in pets at home Jesnon, and come to the conclusion, as you and Sue have, that they are for cleaning only. Not for water changes.
There are some really horrid YouTube videos of people keeping betta in Jack Daniels bottles amongst other things. (In the US)
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We have the tank now! It's been all set up for him just needs plugging in as we didn't have an extension cord. Once that's done I can bring my filter media in. Unless the media would be ok for several hours in a tub in which case I can bring it in tomorrow?
I've discovered that coincidentally the tank is the same brand as the siphon so I think we might keep it as it might be good to suck up any left over food I guess if a water change isn't due.
I'm very impressed with how the tank looks and am very excited about getting his fish!
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Hey.... c'mon Jesnon, you know the rules. Piccies.... or it didn't happen! :))
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If you treat the media like a fish (totally submerged with a good sized air space above) it should be fine for a few hours. Provided you keep it in a place where it won't get baked or frozen.
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Hey.... c'mon Jesnon, you know the rules. Piccies.... or it didn't happen! :))
Haha unfortunately Colin I can't with it being at work. Very impressed with the tank though and the decorations are pretty cool! The light in the tank appears to just be an energy saving bulb, which needs changing as it doesn't appear to be working.
The filter I don't really understand though... It has a spray bar, I'm not really sure if I need to use that or not though? I've set it up without the spray bar, and have removed the carbon that came in it. There's just one small sponge at the minute and space for the cycled media. I might try and get someone to get it from a LFS but will need to see if it's possible or not. Unfortunately the heater hasn't arrived in the post yet though
If you treat the media like a fish (totally submerged with a good sized air space above) it should be fine for a few hours. Provided you keep it in a place where it won't get baked or frozen.
;D Good point! I'll see what happens. I'm off for a couple of days now, really hoping no-one just goes out and buys the fish!
I got myself some new fish today and looked at the bettas whilst there - they really are lovely fish!
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Just thought I'd update on this. Well I took my testing kit in and some filter media and added ammonia. .. several days later ammonia reading of the same and no nitrite. Not sure what's gone wrong really didn't want to have to do a fishless cycle. The filter is very small and my media took up the whole space inside. I'm not really sure what went wrong...
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That does sound a bit odd. How much ammonia did you add? It could be that because the filter is so small it can only process a small amount of ammonia.
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It was a bit too much, I think 4ppm (I'm sure it must be stronger than it used to be! ?) I'll do a water change tomorrow and start again with a smaller dose say 1ppm and see what happens
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That's the best thing. When I was between bettas a few years ago I added ammonia to feed the bacteria till I got a new one and the same thing happened - no sign of ammonia dropping and no nitrite. Just one betta doesn't make much ammonia so 1ppm will be more than enough.
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That's the best thing. When I was between bettas a few years ago I added ammonia to feed the bacteria till I got a new one and the same thing happened - no sign of ammonia dropping and no nitrite. Just one betta doesn't make much ammonia so 1ppm will be more than enough.
very strange!
Well so far ammonia is dropping but nitrite has gone off the scale. I really want it to be cycled by Thursday but doesn't look good!
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Well... good news! I think the tank is fully cycled now. Nitrite and ammonia have both dropped to 0ppm! Hopefully by Sunday he can get his new fish!
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Frustrating news from my end... One of my staff went out and bought fish today before my shift. .. Yes fish and not a fish and not the fish I clearly asked them to get. Frustrating. Two male platies and they were advised by the shop he can get more AND neon tetras for his tank up to 10 fish. In a 22l tank. Grrr.
I don't really know what to do now as my tenant seems very taken by them but the tank is too small for platies. Ugh
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:( thats really bad on the part of the shop to advise such a high stock load for a tank.
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Frustrating news from my end... One of my staff went out and bought fish today before my shift. .. Yes fish and not a fish and not the fish I clearly asked them to get. Frustrating. Two male platies and they were advised by the shop he can get more AND neon tetras for his tank up to 10 fish. In a 22l tank. Grrr.
I don't really know what to do now as my tenant seems very taken by them but the tank is too small for platies. Ugh
Why do people do this!!!! That's awful. Have you resorted to physical violence yet?
My experience with male platies is that they'll be fine for a few months - then the hormones kick in and they'll beat hell out of each other. In that small tank there's not enough room for the weaker to hide and it won't be pretty. Can you take them back and complain about the bad advice, taking print-outs of platy advice from this site and Seriously Fish etc to show that they were wrong?
Anyway - platies need hard water and neons need soft water. They shouldn't be in the same tank together, so that's more bad advice.
Get on your scooter, girl, and ride!
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I would definitely take them back and explain to the shop that they are not suitable for 22 litres.
Then explain to your tenant that though the fish look OK in there, they will grow and be unhappy.
Then have a word with the person who bought the fish, ask if the know anything about fish, tell them that shop workers are the last person to believe and explain why you took the fish back.
And say if they do that again you'll ** insert suitable punishment**
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Thanks guys! Very frustrating isn't it! ? I've spoken to the service user and he seems happy to take the fish back, just need a car driver now so we can get them back ok
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This is probably a stupid question but when you take fish back how do you transport them? I could pop into a shop on the way into work and get a fish bag but was wondering if there was anything else we could use
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Any food-safe plastic bag will do, but choose a strong one. Double up if you are worried it might leak. Fill it one third water, two thirds air. If you can't manage to knot the top of the bag, twist it round, fold it over and wind an elastic band round.
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Grrr!
How did you get on with this? Or have you found a driver yet?
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A friend of mine who always used to work at the service is popping in to take the fish back and the service user to pick out a betta thankfully. I trust her to help him pick a betta this time!! Though I discovered what everyone means by platties being poop machines!!
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Well I thought I would update on this!
The platties have gone back to the shop and the tenant is now the proud owner of a beautiful red betta! I also had a great experience at the shop when I told him the tank size he was horrified about the platies and really seemed to know what he was talking about!
I got a little picture of him... I'm so jealous! I really want one now they are such lovely fish!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/jessboon/Mobile%20Uploads/20140724_184510_zps507ba88c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jessboon/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140724_184510_zps507ba88c.jpg.html)
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Wow, he looks great. I'm glad it all worked out in the end! :cheers:
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looks like a really nice fish :) . you will have to keep working on your partner for another tank :fishy1:
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Yay - a happy ending! :cheers:
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looks like a really nice fish :) . you will have to keep working on your partner for another tank :fishy1:
hehe believe me I will keep trying!
The service user in question seems happy with the fish and I think he's a lovely very curious Betta! Whilst the platies were in the tank all readings remained good so hopefully no problems there!
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Well I thought I would update.. Unfortunately the betta died last week. No idea what went wrong as he had no symptoms and appeared in good health the day before. Nothing wrong with tank or water either. The tenant now has a new beautiful blue betta so hopefully the other little guy was just old!