Dwarf Gourami Problem With Male Bullying Female

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Offline suep

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dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« on: January 28, 2014, 09:24:00 PM »
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I had a pair of dwarf gouramis about 6 months ago - a male and female. The female unfortunately died this week, but she had been hiding for about a week. She was always being nudged by the male and I wonder whether she was bullied to death? I was thinking about getting 2 females but maybe I shouldn't get any? what do people think  :-\

Offline Sue

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 08:23:53 AM »
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Dwarf gouramis are notorious for this, unfortunately. If he wants to breed and she doesn't, it has been known for the male to actually attack and kill her. The usual remedy is to have at least two females, and lots of tall plants (real or synthetic) to give the females somewhere to hide.
Your male gourami will be OK on his own if you don't want to risk getting any more females.

But it could have been natural causes - dwarf gouramis are prone to illness. Was she showing any physical symptoms, besides hiding away?

Offline Naomi12345

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 08:38:50 PM »
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I have a male and a female on advice from
Lfs when went for single male... He chases he around but she is fairly bold... Is there
Anything you would recommend before anything bad happens to her. It doesn't happen all the time but this post made me concerned.....

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Siamese Fighting Fish (female) (7) - Golden Barb (3) - Black Phantom Tetra (5) - Cherry Barb (1) - Neon Tetra (10) - Slender Harlequin (2) - Siamese Fighting Fish (male) (1) - Flame Tetra (6) - Platy (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (4) - Neon Tetra (9) - Honey Gourami (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline suep

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 09:53:45 PM »
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I have a male and a female on advice from
Lfs when went for single male... He chases he around but she is fairly bold... Is there
Anything you would recommend before anything bad happens to her. It doesn't happen all the time but this post made me concerned.....

It sounds as if maybe another female in the tank would be a good idea Naomi, Thanks for the advice Sue. I am planning to change the substrate this weekend for black sand (for my corydoras to play in and prevent the high PH pikes I'm getting with my gravel) with Fluval Stratum underneath - then I'm getting some lovely new plants and after some time I may feel brave enough to get a couple of females.

Offline Sue

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 10:16:59 AM »
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Remember that you will have some bacteria on the substrate, though not nearly as many as in the filter. Feed the fish lightly for a few days before and after you change it, and monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels for a few days till you are sure they are OK.

The only problems you might have when getting female dwarfs is that some shops don't sell them as they are "plain and boring and no-one wants them" so they don't stock them; and those that do often only sell them in m/f pairs. In the latter case you can always ask for 2 females, the worst they can do is say no  :D


Naomi, it sounds like you went to a shop with a m/f pair only policy. It would be better for your existing female if you could get another. Be careful as some shops will try to convince you a powder blue male is a female - that happened to me a few years ago!

Offline suep

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 05:45:08 PM »
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Thanks again Sue. I did wonder about losing bacteria on the sustrate. There is quite a lot of gravel in there! Maybe I could put some just in a bag in the new tank for a few weeks until the new substrate builds its own bacteria? I do have an extneral Eheim filter with lots of lovely ceramic filter bits in. But I will monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels. Fingers crossed!  ;)
 


Offline Sue

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 07:07:23 PM »
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I wouldn't bother with the gravel. I changed all three of my tanks from gravel to sand and never had a problem. Even if you do see any ammonia or nitrite it shouldn't be more than a trace and won't last very long. Under optimum conditions the bacteria can double in 24 hours and you won't need to replace more than a few %. Your filter will make up any losses very quickly, then you'll slowly grow bacteria on the sand.

I'm getting a new, bigger tank a week on Sat to replace the one where the bracer bar has become detached and the glass is bowing. The volume is about 50% bigger but more importantly, the footprint is 75% bigger. The sand in the current tank isn't enough, I'll need to add more.
My plan of action involves removing all the sand from my current tank and washing it under the tap to remove any muck caught in it. That will kill a lot, if not all, the bacteria on it and any that survive could well end up on the bottom away from any oxygen. Not only will I lose those bacteria, I'll also lose all the bacteria on the glass of the old tank. I will feed the fish less food for a few days before and after and I'll also check the ammonia levels for a few days after. I don't expect to have any problems.


I shouldn't have said that, it's tempting fate  ;D

Offline Naomi12345

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 07:51:10 PM »
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They do like to sell them in pairs and have a powder blue male and female... Very good store who can tell them apart... Should I get another 2 females if will only sell in pairs? Concern in 90 litre tank may be too many!!!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Siamese Fighting Fish (female) (7) - Golden Barb (3) - Black Phantom Tetra (5) - Cherry Barb (1) - Neon Tetra (10) - Slender Harlequin (2) - Siamese Fighting Fish (male) (1) - Flame Tetra (6) - Platy (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (4) - Neon Tetra (9) - Honey Gourami (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 09:43:29 AM »
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It depends. How heavily are you stocked at the moment? If you have space for 2 gouramis, and the shop will sell 2 females, there won't be a problem. But if you are already overstocked, 2 more gouramis would be too much.

Offline Richard W

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 01:31:51 PM »
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It's strange that dwarf gouramis are often recommended as ideal community fish, but there seem to be more people with problems with them than almost any other fish. Without a female, he could just turn his bullying on to other fish.

There is a theory, held by a number of very experienced fishkeepers, that most people keep their tanks at too high a temperature. The idea is that the commonly "recommended" temperatures actually represent breeding temperatures rather than those for normal maintenance. By keeping fish at a high temperature they are in a permanent state of "breeding readiness" which stresses them out over time. So if you have an oversexed male gourami and are keeping it at a temperature near to the top end of normal, dropping it by a couple of degrees might calm him down and make him less aggressive.

There's a very interesting article on the Seriously fish site (Knowledge Base/ Beginner's Guide) titled "Whaddya mean, too hot?" It's food for thought and well worth anybody reading.

In my youthful fish keeping days, many years ago, our thermostats were always set to 20 - 21 deg C, which I believe was considered normal then. I have wondered if this was why our fish seemed to survive and live comfortably and healthily without much filtration, water changes or similar.

Offline suep

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 11:04:58 AM »
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That's really interesting Richard about the water temp. I worry about the temp going to low and when I put the fish in the temporary tank yesterday, I knocked the temp guage on the heater and it's hard to read so had to guess where it should be. I was checking it all the time because I didnt want to stress the fish even more with a temp change as well. On a separate issue, have a quandry: The fiilter and heater are now in the temporary tank, but I need to let the water settle in the old tank with the new substrate. Obviously the water is not going to be the right temp, but I move the heater then the temporary tank with cool down. Any suggestions?

Offline Richard W

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 01:39:32 PM »
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I always keep a spare heater just in case, but failing that I suggest you take the heater out of the temporary tank which you then wrap in a blanket or duvet. Water retains its heat for much longer than you expect and should cool down very slowly if the tank is insulated like this. It would also hep if you keep the lights on, assuming you have normal fluorescent tubes. I set up one tank and planted it at room temperature of 18 degrees. I took the new heater out of its box, dropped and broke it. So I was temporarily without a heater (which is why I now keep a spare). Anyway, I turned on the lights, and the filter to circulate the water. After four hours the temperature had risen to 22 degrees, 4 degrees above room temperature, entirely because of the heat from the lights, though I understand most of this heat comes from the ballast rather than the tubes. So keeping the lights on does help.
That's all I can suggest.

Offline suep

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 02:12:50 PM »
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okay. thanks Richard. How long can I leave the fish without filter ?

Offline Richard W

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 02:49:41 PM »
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I'm sure Sue will be better able to answer that than I am. I'll leave it to her.

Offline Sue

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2014, 03:54:37 PM »
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The fish should not be without a filter more than a few hours or the ammonia will build up. If the tank was full of well growing plants it would not be a problem, but it doesn't sound like this is the situation.

Can you explain why you need to leave the fish without a filter? You've said the fish, filter and heater are in a temporary tank while you change the substrate in the proper one. Do you want to move the filter back before the fish?

Offline Naomi12345

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Re: dwarf gourami problem with Male bullying female
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 06:41:44 PM »
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Tank is a bit full for 2 more large fish so will leave it for now and just hope she's ok!!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Siamese Fighting Fish (female) (7) - Golden Barb (3) - Black Phantom Tetra (5) - Cherry Barb (1) - Neon Tetra (10) - Slender Harlequin (2) - Siamese Fighting Fish (male) (1) - Flame Tetra (6) - Platy (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (4) - Neon Tetra (9) - Honey Gourami (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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