Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => General Fishkeeping advice => Topic started by: apache6467 on November 04, 2017, 03:01:01 PM
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Hello!
My family was recently given a marina 50x25 tank with HOB filter and the fish from it from an old friend who no longer wished to keep fish. At the time of typing, the tank is full of the fish from our 190L corner tank as we are totally redecorating it and replacing the substrate. Once this is done and the fish are moved back, my dad has said i can use it to keep shrimp!
The Plan!
- fill the bottom of the tank with aquasoil and fine natural gravel (purchased!)
- Add cholla wood, moss balls and other plants, possibly montecarlo
- Stock with about 10 RCS (£12) and think about possible other tankmates
- Get advice from you guys and girls on keeping RCS with pygmy corydoras and Anchor Catfish
The Tank!
The tank currently is running with a HOB filter, but wondering if a sponge filter (i have one already cycled) would be better?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Apache :D :fishy1: :fishy1:
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I have kept red cherry shrimps with pygmy cories with no problems. I have never kept anchor catfish so I can't say whether they'd be OK or not. But assuming you mean Hara jerdoni, I can't foresee any problems.
The sponge filter is ideal. The HOB filter - it depends. A lot of these have nothing but carbon cartridges in them. If the one you have acquired is like this, I'd go with the sponge filter. But if you decide to go with the HOB, I would get a block of sponge, cut a slit in it and push the uptake tube of the filter into it. This will stop baby/young shrimps getting sucked up.
Provided there are lots of hiding places the shrimps should be fine and breed. Newly hatched cherry shrimps are about 1 mm long and cream coloured. They need to be able to hide till they are bigger. And when you do a water change, check the old water very carefully. You will suck up shrimps of all sizes. Adults and juveniles will be easy to see. Babies won't be. When I had my 50 litre tank, I emptied the old water out of the bucket using a plastic jug- it was semi see through so I could see the tiny cream shrimplets in the jug. I used a pipette of the kind that come with fish medication to suck them out of the jug (I cut the end off to make it wider). Yes, it did make water changes longer than usual ;D
Shrimps have a hard exoskeleton so they have to shed it as they grow. While the new 'skin' is hardening they are very vulnerable so they hide. Another reason to have lots of hiding places.
A few things that you probably already know but it is worth repeating them
Shrimps are more sensitive to ammonia and nitrite than fish are so make sure the tank is cycled before getting shrimp.
The shed skins look like hollowed out dead shrimps. Don't panic when you see your first ;)
If you see the males whizzing round the tank they are looking for the female that has just released pheromones to say she is ready to mate.
Mature females have a light, saddle shaped patch on their backs. This is her ovaries filling with eggs.
Female shrimps carry their eggs between their swimmerets under their abodomens. It is called being berried because that's just what the eggs look like.
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Hello @Sue
yes the HOB has carbon and sponge inside (came with the tank, fully cycled and established for years) and the input has sponges on already!
What would you reccomend for hiding spots? The tank isnt that big (37L) and will be planted with whatever i can afford. Also what would i feed them, as im going to use catfish pellets for the other inhabitants?
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For hiding places, plants. Mine particularly like hornwort because it has fine leaves. It can be planted, left to float or twisted round wood to anchor it a bit.
When I first had shrimps I had terrible trouble keeping them alive. I was down to my last one, a berried female. So I moved her to my quarantine tank and a few days later found her dead. But as I was emptying the tank I found a lot of baby shrimps. Another member on here, Natalia, helped me a lot - I left the QT set up for the babies and I fed these baby shrimps on crushed-to-power Hikari Shrimp Cuisine. Most of them survived and started my colony. Once I ran out of Shrimp Cuisine I just fed fish food. (You'll find my shrimp threads here (https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-tank-plant-advice/plant-die-off/) and here (https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/invertebrates-shrimps-and-snails/baby-cherry-shrimp/). The first one starts out as a plnat thread and moves on to shrimps)
The shrimps are now in my 180 litre tank. When I closed the 50 litre I moved everything into the bigger tank and I counted just under 100 shrimps. I feed the fish in there Omega One flakes, Omega One veggie rounds (for the stiphodons) and New Life Spectrum small sinking pellets (for the pygmy cories and gudgeons). Of course all the fish and shrimps eat a bit of everything. And the shrimps graze of the algae and biolfilm on the plants - another reason to have live plants.
The fish you intend to keep with them are not vegetarian; both need good quality sinking pellets and live or frozen food - small types because they are small fish. Cherry shrimps will eat these but they also need some veg in their diet. It might be an idea to also feed a good quality algae food. Not much will be needed, but it would be better crushed into smaller pieces.
Haras are nocturnal feeders so put some food in just before the room lights are turned off for the night.
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What would you reccomend for hiding spots?
You might additionally find some inspiration here http://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/45-decoration - and I find this company consistently excellent in their service for fish-related products (although I don't actually have shrimp myself).
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Thanks @fcmf still cant work out what fcmf means though!
Looking for cholla wood but will keep in mind that site :D
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A couple more thoughts for you...
Aquasoils tend to release ammonia for a few weeks which you'll need to factor in and consider delaying the purchase of your shrimp until you have good test results.
Which filter is least noisy and which uses least energy? These are important factors for me (though perhaps not the fish) when considering a potential filter.
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Aquasoils tend to release ammonia for a few weeks which you'll need to factor in and consider delaying the purchase of your shrimp until you have good test results.
Thanks @Matt I will definetly put the shrimp on hold, my wallet cant afford them yet either! I will be using Seachem Prime, which claims to "Detoxify ammonia and nitrites" but will definetly leave for a couple of weeks before the purchase of the shrimp.
Both filters are howver, fully cycled and both come from established tanks. The HOB is holding all the fish from the 190L whilst we re do the tank as its better than a bucket
Which filter is least noisy and which uses least energy? These are important factors for me (though perhaps not the fish) when considering a potential filter.
I would say the HOB is less noisy but still has sponge for the shrimp to feed off, but is i do use the Sponge, ive got a massive hole in the lid so im still not sure.
Would anyone also reccomend plants for them? Ive got Hornwort, Anubias, Javamoss but what else should i get for them?
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Shrimp are really interesting little creatures. I only have amano shrimp in several tanks at the moment, and one random mystery shrimp in the betta tank that came as an additional present when purchasing some assassin snails, but I enjoy watching them.
I'm looking forward to hearing about your shrimp tank & seeing lots of pictures.
Good luck. :cheers:
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Don't forget that Prime only detoxifies ammonia and nitrite for about 24 to 36 hours.
The best thing would be to use sand and nothing else on the bottom of the tank. Several people report that these special plant soils do little to help plant growth, and become ineffective after about a year. Sand and root tabs for plants rooted in the substrate is the easiest and cheapest way to go.
And as Matt has pointed out, with some of these soils you can't put any fish or shrimps in the tank until they have stopped leaching ammonia which can take several months. If you did get fish you would be doing daily water changes to remove this leeching ammonia since the detoxification by Prime only lasts a day - and it is not a good idea to dose more Prime other than the amount needed to treat new water during a water change.
I missed the fact that you want to use fine gravel, and that you already have it. Even fine gravel is too coarse for pygmy cories - they really do need sand. If you want the cheapest, get play sand.
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Sand it is then. Glad i still have the recipt but the gravel is extreemly fine, its UNIPAC black sand, but if you reccoment using this without dirt then i shall. Cant do anytthing untill the fish are moved out of the tank and back in the 190L though
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I have seen some black sand, though I can't remember if it was Unipac, and that was quite large particles for sand - more like fine gravel as you said in your first post. And the stuff I saw was also quite rough. Cories need smooth substrate. They sift the substrate for food, taking a mouthful then getting rid of the remains through their gills. They can't do this with particles that are too big, and if you think about how small a pygmy cory is, even fine gravel won't fit through their gills.
The stuff to avoid is white sand. It shows every speck of dirt and it reflects light which fish don't like :)
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Ill see what i can get today when i return the soil and gravel
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This is the sand I have in my 180 litre tank http://aquariumsand.co.uk/ but not many places sell it. I bought it because that's what my favourite shop sold.
Or go to Argos or B&Q and get some play sand.
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Just compared sand to the black sand and the black sand is only marginally bigger and my dad says thatblack sand should be fine with the pygmy corys. And im going to not use the soil so i have more money for plants like anubias, hornwart, java ferns and moss balls
Thanks Sue :)
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Re other plants
Amazon sword have always done well for me. Consider buying some root tabs for them (as Sue suggested) , they dont need them per se but will hugely benefit from it as they are heavy root feeders. Root tabs can of course be useful with other plants too.
A good list of other 'easy' plants can be found here:
http://tropica.com/en/plants/ (http://tropica.com/en/plants/)
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This is the sand I have in my 180 litre tank http://aquariumsand.co.uk/ but not many places sell it. I bought it because that's what my favourite shop sold.
Or go to Argos or B&Q and get some play sand.
@Sue is that the same place as http://www.barlows-aquarium-supplies.com (http://www.barlows-aquarium-supplies.com)? It was the address I noticed.
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They must be connected as the email address on both links is the same. Your link is all about bespoke aquariums but as they also mention that they sell fish, presumable they also sell things like sand.
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I have seen some black sand, though I can't remember if it was Unipac, and that was quite large particles for sand - more like fine gravel as you said in your first post. And the stuff I saw was also quite rough.
I have bought black sand in the past that turned out to be completely unsuitable. It was bought from an aquatics store, as aquarium sand, I can't remember if it was Unipac, but it was larger particles than something like JBL Sansibar. When I put my hand into the pack and rubbed it in my fingers it felt sharp. I didn't use it.
Someone from the axolotl forum was having problems with her gang looking red underneath. She had used that sand and it was so sharp it had worn the skin off the axolotls and caused problems. A change of substrate to soft sand and everything was fine.
It is very difficult to get true black sand. The Sansibar only goes as far as "dark" rather than black. The only really black stuff I've ever found was the stuff that was too sharp. Always have a good feel of the things that you are putting in your tank to make sure that they are suitable (sand, rocks, decor) and have no sharp edges.
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It has just occurred to me to warn you not to use API root tabs. From my reading, they can make a mess of your tank. The most highly recommended ones are Seachem Flourish tabs. http://www.seachem.com/flourish-tabs.php
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I've also used tetra initial sticks - they might work quite well with sand as you wouldn't be vacuuming it like with gravel. You could do a layer across the bottom of the tank before putting in the sand. They're not too expensive either... try Amazon.
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:fishy1: Hello Again! :fishy1:
Been doing some research online and i have decided on the following things;
- The only inhabitants will be (to start with for now ;) ) 9 corydoras pygmaeus and 10 RCS
- These two species will breed together as the corydoras wont eat shrimplets and the shrimp will only eat fungused eggs (read this on the SF Pygmy cory page) so this is also a mini breeding project but if it doesnt work,
it will still make a great showpiece tank - im not gong to use soil, just the black sand, which is not sharp and my GREAT lfs said it was ok (will return the products i bought UNOPENED for plants)
- I will buy Hornwart, Anubias, moss balls and Java Fern and use Java moss from home along with a piece of wood and possibly cholla wood
If i am to use the Sponge Filter, i would have to fill in a hole in the lid where the HOB filter is, any suggestions on how to do this?
Any concerns/suggestions welcome, as always!
~~Apache~~
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That all sounds good.
The hole in the lid depends. Cories shouldn't get out through the hole, and shrimps will only climb out if there is something wrong with the water. if your water is good, they won't try to escape (they climb up cables, airline tubing etc). But if you are worried, the simplest thing is to stuff some filter wool in the hole till you see how things go. Then later you can do something permanent.
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Thanks sue, I was thinking of just taping over some laminated card but filter wool may work till I need to :)
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A few years ago I had two nerite snails that climbed out of the tank through the cable cut outs in the back of the lid. I used filter wool in the holes and it stopped them getting out. We had to be very careful crossing the kitchen to raise the blind first thing in the morning in case we trod on a snail.
I never did find out why they kept escaping during the night as the water stats were perfect. Then they stopped doing it so I threw away the filter wool. I still have the snails in my 180 litre tank now.
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Well, if I do enough work, dad promises moss balls and cholla wood for my spoilt shrimps. In other news, my filter in the 55L has split power cable ends and is now dead but media in the 55L to be reused. Running the sponge filter for now and can cope as Julii Cory's and whiptails plus a rouge crib have moved to the 190L for more room and that has now been set up. Shrimp tank will be set up at the weekend. And I've just been relieved to find all 10 Khuli loaches still alive and kicking :)
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Keep an eye on your water parameters in the 190L... How have you kept the filter bacteria alive whilst the tank was being re-done?
Filter bacteria can establish fairly quickly from a dormant period without enough food if kept moist. Either way, always worth keeping an eye on things in a new set up...
I like the idea of the pygmy cories and shrimp. Good luck with it :cheers:
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i have the media in my 55L acting as another layer on my sponge filter and some 'tubes' for the khuli loaches to investigate. Water peramiters were great last night and my dad runs a beefy fluval filter so im sure it can handle the 190, but thats his tank. And thanks for the luck, ive a feeling im going to need it :cheers:
Edited to add: Oh @Matt the 190L was only out of action for 4 days but the filter was only down on Saturday so the tank is fine and full of happy fish
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@apache6467 thought this might give you some ideas:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/2017/2/2/set-up-a-kuhli-loach-hotel
Good luck and keep us updated. :)
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@apache6467 thought this might give you some ideas:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/2017/2/2/set-up-a-kuhli-loach-hotel
Good luck and keep us updated. :)
I've already read that but thanks, it should give me some inspiration, and I think the loaches will be happier now the substrate is less crowded.
Thanks!
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Just come home and find 2 filters on the table :yikes: thanks to amazon prime and dad.
One is an internal filter which I am seeding with ceramic cylinders, the other is a GIANT sponge filter, which I have put filter wool in the slits in the sponge to seed it. Both are running in the 55L for bacteria growth :)
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That's a lovely surprise. :)
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Surprised that the moss balls came today aswell from www.freshwatershrimp.co.uk with some montecarlo for the 190L
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Well, my aquascape is done, but unfortunately, my phone cant take small photos to upload them :vcross:
I shall have to get a camera, but as for now here is what I have done:
- Added my black sand and soaked it
- Added a large piece of wood, stone 6 moss balls and some grassy plants
- Added my old filter media to my HOB filter and added my large sponge filter (I intend to run both together so
I have a backup that is cycled ;) - Filled the tank and turned everything on!
I still need to purchase some java fern but as for now, im letting the tank run, clear the water and get everything ready for the arrival of my crustacean comrades arrival on saturday!
As for the pygmy corydoras... Its until I can afford them!
Apache 8)
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Can't wait to see the pictures :cheers:
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Just got my first 4 RCS and 8 pygmy corydoras!!!!! Only got 4 as they were £3 each!!!! waiting for other LFS to have em back in stock as they are a reasonable £1.25 each or 5 for £6
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It is a good idea to mix shrimps from different shops as they'll be different stock - but different branches of the same shop will have shrimps from the same stock. Once you have a thriving colony, once a year try to get more shrimps from yet another shop to widen the gene pool. I try to get a berried female because you pay for 1 shrimp and soon have a lot more than one :)
(A berried female is one that is carrying eggs under her abdomen)
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I did ask but alas there was none.... Im going to ask my LFS to reserve me 10 RCS when they next come in, as my LFS can arrange that for you as long as you collect them shortly. I also mixed the pygmy cory gene pool as well as i bought them in two batches from 2 different LFS. And i will try and mix the gene pool ;)
I was going to go to a maidenhead but its way more pricey than my closer LFS
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When I had my 50 litre tank, I had pygmy cories, Boraras maculatus and cherry shrimps. i found that cory fry survived in this tank but I had to be careful during water changes as newly hatched pygmy cories are tiny. I always had to rescue tiny - and some not so tiny - shrimps from the bucket, and quite often there were cory fry in there too. I once rescued 32 shrimps from 1 bucket of old tank water but it was usually around 10 to 12.
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Thanks for the advice, im debating putting a fine mesh over the end of the hose to prevent fry from going on a little 'journey'. I think just pygmy corydoras and shrimp will do fine, as right now i can see they are very active little fish and the shrimps love my moss balls, wood and sponge filter. The corys are all juviniles but the 5 from my 'recently discovered' LFS are a little larger and more defined than those from my regular LFS but still hoping they will breed next year. As for the shrimp, only time will tell :D
Hopefully get pics soon after my BTEC assignment
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Apache - to follow on from what we were saying in another thread (Rustle's platy thread) when a female cherry shrimp is old enough to breed, there will be a paler saddle shaped mark on her back. It could be white, yellow or greenish. This is her ovaries filling with eggs and is something to look for when trying to work out which sex your shrimps are. Females' abdomens are quite deep and rounded at the bottom edge - females carry their eggs under their abdomens so they need room for them. Males have much thinner, flatter abdomens.
When a female is ready to release her eggs she emits a pheromone and all the males in the tank start swimming round looking for her. The first time I saw this I thought something was wrong as it's so unlike their usual behaviour.
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Just wondering if my Glass Catfish would eat RCS as when i have a big colony i would like to split it into 2 groups, my 37L and 55L. Ive only got khuli loaches, neons, rummy noses and pandas in the 55L
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Since their natural diet includes small invertebrates, they would probably eat baby shrimps. But if you have enough hiding places for the shrimps, you would probably have a self sustaining colony even if a lot of babies were eaten.
What other fish are in the same tank as the glass catfish?
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@Sue i have 4 rummy nose tetras, 4 neons, 5 panda corydoras and 10 khuli loaches
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Ah, sorry, I didn't realise they were in that tank.
You do realise that the rummies, neons, pandas and kuhlis put the tank at 216% stocked, and that's without adding the glass catfish as you haven't said how many there are. And the glass catfish need a tank at least 90 cm long.......
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Wow! And to think I had 4 juliis 3 whiptails and a krib in there as well..... That's why I run 2 filters! The glass cats just swim in one spot until feeding time