Tropical Fish Forum

Tropical Fish Keeping => Gallery Showcase => Topic started by: TopCookie on April 12, 2018, 01:45:28 PM

Title: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 12, 2018, 01:45:28 PM
Tank log for "The Cookie Crew"... 

Will add any news and some up to date pics imminently...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 12, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures.  ;) Every time I tried looking for your photos I meant to suggest that you put a thread here.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 12, 2018, 05:57:39 PM
Finally planted the Echinodorus Red Diamond today, after a short spell in quarantine...  But with the other new plants recently introduced, I'm seeing a lot more of the pesky little ramshorn shape micro snails and picking them out manually...   :vcross:

Went in the tank today for a little light trimming & tidy up, having done the same yesterday, and blow me - what starts out as 15 minutes of tinkering soon becomes the entire afternoon, eh...??!!??   ::)

Will get some new pics up asap Helen...  Tank is a tad murky at the mo because of tinkering with the plants...  I couldn't, literally, get the Red Diamond to settle in the chosen spot I had for it, so ended up uprooting one of the nuisance H.Costata and then planting Old Red in that space, so the tank will look a fair bit (read: a little bit, lol) different once I get it nice and clear & photo worthy again...  :)

The H.Costata came out reasonably well and without too much disruption (unlike the Elodea I uprooted recently...!!!), so that has encouraged me with the idea of removing them all, over time, and replacing them with better choices...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 12, 2018, 07:15:22 PM

Went in the tank today for a little light trimming & tidy up, having done the same yesterday, and blow me - what starts out as 15 minutes of tinkering soon becomes the entire afternoon, eh...??!!??   ::)


It's far too easy to lose an entire afternoon to pottering/faffing/maintenance.  ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 12, 2018, 07:19:20 PM
Went in the tank today for a little light trimming & tidy up, having done the same yesterday, and blow me - what starts out as 15 minutes of tinkering soon becomes the entire afternoon, eh...??!!??   ::)
Did you have a swim while you were in there too?  ;)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 12, 2018, 11:02:23 PM
You gotta love it though, all the same...  lolol...  It really was only intended as a brief "potter" in the tank, after having an afternoon of it yesterday too...  But I have now discovered that there's no such thing as a gentle plant trimming...!!!  Oh no, it's more like if you get those scissors out, may as well get the BIG bucket out coz that's how much space you're gonna need by the time you finally manage to persuade yourself that it's time to finally put the scissors down while you still have some actual plants left...!!!!!    :yikes:

Lolol on the swimming thing...  my t-shirt certainly thinks I went swimming...!!!   ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 13, 2018, 11:18:52 AM
The most recent pic I can find, although this is a few days old and prior to a few changes... 

(https://imagez.to/i/B94ioYKz.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 13, 2018, 03:33:47 PM
Looking good.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 13, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Very envious of how great it looks.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 13, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
Great tank & lovely plants.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 10:13:27 AM
After noticing some kind of filamentous algae growing on a few of the taller Sword leaves and the upper H.Costata leaves, some serious trimming has been underway, so the tank is definitely looking less lush and jungle like at the moment...  Also inclined to leave the skimmer filter on all the time at the mo too, to see if I can't combat the algae a little...  Finally, just as @Matt has suggested, I shall be reducing the lighting period a little too... 

In the meantime, the Seachem Pristine is working well and keeping the tank nice and clear & bright looking, and the Seachem Phosguard is also doing its thing well, having approximately halved the phosphate levels in the tank...  Only problem here is that my tap water level is high, so I may have to consider setting up a better solution by putting a layer of Phosguard in the main filter...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 10:28:59 AM
Aside from the running news there, I'm now considering some additional community fish...  After talking about stocking levels elsewhere, it would seem that I could in fact add a small shoal of another species to the Cookie Crew... 

There's no need to add to the Cardinals (11) or Pristellas (12) in the tank, and I just plain don't want to boost the Red Phantom numbers (6) on the grounds that they bicker too much (although to be fair, they have been a bit better lately)...

So, I'm after recommendations for a peaceful community fish that doesn't get too big and would sit nicely with a bunch of Tetras...  I'd almost prefer something that would be happy with 2 or 3 in numbers and would prefer a species that are not Tetras, having three varieties already... 

Gotta say though, @daveyng pics of his Diamond Tetras is an eye opener, for sure...  Beautiful fish indeed...!!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 17, 2018, 04:14:35 PM
A possibly controversial suggestion: you might find that increasing the number of red phantoms reduces the bickering!  :o
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 17, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
Would Galaxy Rasboras fit in with the Tetras. I have kept them with neons in a tank that we installed at work.
They were fine with them.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 06:11:03 PM
Two good recommendations to kick off with...  My concern with the Galaxy Rasboras would be them being so small, but then having said that, maybe that could mean a shoal of 8 to 10 fish and not much additional bio-load...  Definitely not ruled out and definitely a beautiful little fish...  Bottom line; added to the new wish list...!!! 

Adding more RPTs I would say is not at all controversial Helen and I suspect that would probably work well in terms of reduced bickering...  The problem I have there is that I really don't especially like them now, and adding more kinda goes against the grain a little...  I so wish I had got Harlequins instead now, but no use to think like that too much...  Maybe Harlequins are not a bad idea anyway, then simply replace each RPT with another Harlequin as their numbers come up, over time...? 

The two main contenders on my wish list (prior to Dave's suggestion above) are Cherry Barbs and Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish...  I have no experience of either species so far, but they both look nice to me and sound like potential candidates...  Would love a pair of Gourami of some sort, possibly Honeys, but this is another species that I need to research more... 

Still wide open to suggestions though...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 17, 2018, 06:16:48 PM
A possibly controversial suggestion: you might find that increasing the number of red phantoms reduces the bickering!  :o
I wholeheartedly agree - and perhaps try to ensure that you get more females so that there are plenty for the males to choose from.

These fish http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/harlequin-rasbora.html, although from a different part of the world than tetras, might "fit the bill" well; I love mine.

Ha - tried to post and it turns out you'd posted as I was typing this, with the very suggestion I put above; great minds... Ignore my first comment as you've effectively eliminated that option. Re cherry barbs which you mention, from recollection of others' experiences, they are good as they are generally peaceful and cover the entire tank (including feeding on leftovers).
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 06:32:21 PM
They are lovely fish, the Harlequins...  and not ruled out really...   :fishy1:

Just been reading about the Brilliant Rasbora (Rasbora einthovenii) which could be an option, although they are a bit larger than ideal... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 17, 2018, 07:43:54 PM
I have previous had cherry barbs and currently have neon dwarf rainbows. The former was several years ago and I don't really remember what they were like (the males coloured up nicely, but I don't remember their behaviour. But I also didn't know as much about fish then). The dwarf rainbows are in line to become one of my favourites. They are surprisingly slow growing - I've had them 3 months and I'd say they are 3-4cm. But they have still got some lovely colour to them. I'm quite excited for when they are full-grown.

I also have harlequin rasboras which I definitely have a soft spot for. They are interesting fish to watch.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 17, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
To give you something a bit different to think about... Bolivian ram - great characters. Will show some really different behaviours to your other fish. One how about something for the surface. I've seen hockeystick pencilfish in a few of my local MA stores recently and have been giving them some serious thought...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 10:43:10 PM
At the moment, it is the Neon Dwarf Rainbows hitting the top spot... 

Rams are a fave of mine but I think they like softer water than I have...?  I've looked at them a few times, as potential candidates for the tank, but have always ended up ruling them out for some reason or other, don't remember why tbh though...  Brilliant looking fish though and I totally understand anybody having Rams as their faves...  :) 

One fish that I have considered, as a lone specimen though, is the Platy...  Does anyone know if they are "happy" as a lone fish in a community...?

Saw this pic of a Platy and love it: 

(http://thefishdoctor.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/fancy-platy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 17, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
I have Cherry Barbs in my tank. They pretty much keep to themselves and the males really colour up once settled in their environment.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 17, 2018, 11:47:57 PM
@daveyng  which sorta level in the tank do they spend most time Dave...?

@Helen  same question for Helen, about the Neon Dwarf Rainbows...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 18, 2018, 07:25:18 AM
I have recently spoken about how we don't truly know if we are make our fish happy but that we should obviously be trying to do so. I don't know that platy show any health effects of being kept alone but would they be happy? In nature I believe they are found in groups but they are not like traditional schoaling fish. I has a lone endler for a while when its mates had long passed it seemed go break all rules and live for twice as long and never "seemed unhappy".  Of course with platy you need to be careful that you get males else you will likely be inundated with fry! They are quite active fish compared to your current stocking so be aware of this as it might change the dynamic of the tank.

Going back to rams...bloom up specifically Bolivian rams as opposed to German Blue rams which you are right need soft water.  Bolivians are slightky larger, much more adaptable, though slightly less colourful.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 18, 2018, 11:16:24 AM
Yeah, I see the BRs are more flexible than the GBRs...  How are these bad boys with shrimps Matt...?


Edit:  Just looked on CC to find this warning...

(https://imagez.to/i/esTSQg52.png)

 :(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 18, 2018, 11:39:10 AM
@TopCookie The Cherry’s spend most of the time in the bottom third of the tank.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 18, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
Thanks @daveyng 

That kinda knocks them off the wish-list, as that part of the tank is already teeming...  With looking at the CC and Bolivian Rams, this leaves me three potential options (so far):

1/ Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish x 6

2/ A lone Platy

3/ Additional 2 or 3 female Red Phantom Tetras (grudgingly on the list though)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 18, 2018, 01:08:33 PM
Neon Dwarfs stay mainly in the top third of the tank.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 18, 2018, 02:46:31 PM
That platy has great colours. I have 2 v. platy in my temperate tank, daughters of the very first fish I bought. The 2 of them seem fine and get on with the danios, wcmm, peppered cories & amanos in that tank.
Additional red phantom tetras may help with any bad behaviour.
I'd probably end up going for the neon dwarf rainbowfish.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 18, 2018, 10:07:24 PM
That particular Platy in the picture is a beauty, eh...  All the colours you might find in a Cichlid but without the shrimp worries...  I'd love to find one for sale that looked at least a little like that...  :)

Just off to investigate YouTube now...  May have my first upload shortly...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 18, 2018, 10:17:38 PM
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGQkBUxOXcE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGQkBUxOXcE</a>
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 18, 2018, 10:51:44 PM
 :cheers: looking great.

Interesting that tour cardinals stay so low down. Im sure i remember them being more mid water fish in my tank.

By the way I'm loving the soundtrack to the video!  :rotfl:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 18, 2018, 10:57:43 PM
lolol, had the Man United game on the tv there...   ;D   I have substitued an audio track, but YT says it takes a little time to set up...???

Edit:  Audio track sorted...   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 19, 2018, 10:47:15 AM
You guys that have now or have had Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish, how are they for bickering & squabbling amongst themselves...?

Following somebody else's thread on another forum where one of the guy's NDRs has physical damage, suspected as being from fighting, and talk is of how the males in particular can be aggressive - especially if that crucial balance of males to females is off etc... 

After my ongoing frustration with constantly bickering Red Phantoms, about the last thing I want to embark on is introducing more quarrelsome little blighters... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 19, 2018, 11:43:05 AM
Never had problems with fighting. I have a couple of males and 4 females. The males obviously chase the females around when displaying, but I have never noticed anything untowards.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 19, 2018, 01:17:31 PM
I can't help wondering if a shoal of 4F and 1M might be a good way forward with a view to keeping that bickering/chasing down...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 19, 2018, 03:52:12 PM
Your tank looks great.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 19, 2018, 07:03:18 PM
I can't help wondering if a shoal of 4F and 1M might be a good way forward with a view to keeping that bickering/chasing down...?
Having more females than males ought to help for the very reasons you say, without doubt. Take a read of the 'Hierarchies' 4th paragraph in this article http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/why-fish-shoal-or-group-in-a-fish-tank and also take a look at this article http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/conflicts-when-mixing-community-aquarium-fish.

Loved your video, by the way - in fact, showed it to Mr FCMF who commented not only on the fish but on how healthy the plants looked (and told me that I had a long way to go if I was to get mine looking that good  :-[).
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 19, 2018, 09:13:52 PM
I have 5f and 4m. No obvious bickering that I've noticed. Less than the harlies. (But mine are still juveniles, so it's possible that they're not yet breeding age)  As long as there is 1 more female than males, I understand you should be ok.

Also he aware that the females don't have the same red fins. I think they're equally beautiful with their yellow fins and they are also blue, just not quite as blue.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 19, 2018, 11:29:55 PM
Thanks you guys...  :)

After the Red Phantom Tetras, I'm super sensitive about potentially adding more fish that just might spend their days "facing off" and bickering etc... 

With that said, I just haven't come across any other alternatives...  There is one fish that I fell in love with right at the start though, but dismissed in favour of slightly more esoteric choices, and that is the magnificent looking (imho) Leopard Danios...  Not colourful & pretty like the NDRs, but definitely love that "micro-trout" look that they have...  They'd actually be a serious contender, although I do think the NDRs are far prettier...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 20, 2018, 08:27:20 AM
I have leopard danios in my temperate tank, and I think the colour and markings are quite attractive.
They are also active fish, quite hardy, and good within a community.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 20, 2018, 09:06:10 AM
I think danios do better in a slightly cooler tank than I think you have. As Littlefish said, they're in her temperate tank.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 20, 2018, 10:28:19 PM
Everything keeps coming back to the NDRs...  Planning a trip to Wharf on Tuesday, so watch this space...   ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Excited about tomorrow (Tuesday), but in the meantime, I've hit a major snag...!!!

The problems I've had with the H.Costata plants looking malnourished have now spread to the recently planted Ludwigia repens Rubin, but they already seem quite overwhelmed by the leaf yellowing and poor health... 

I have done water tests today and all three main parameters on zero ppm...  But this includes the nitrates...!!!  So, I'm thinking that excess phosphates combined with a lack of nitrates could be behind a couple of issues in the tank, including what appears to be a nitrogen deficiency in some of the plants and may or may not be connected to the filamentous algae that has started to make it's presence known... 

All in all, while my aquarium creatures all seem super happy, the planted side of things is distinctly unhappy at the mo...   :(

I have seen that there are nitrogen rich fertilisers available, such as "Seachem Flourish Nitrogen" and will probably snag a bottle of that whilst at Wharf in the morning...  Fingers crossed, a boost in nitrogen will reverse the poor health of those plants looking so miserable & poorly...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 23, 2018, 10:43:36 PM
Do you think your anti phosphorus stuff could be stripping the nitrates too?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 10:50:28 PM
I'm really not sure to be honest Matt...  I do have some super healthy and fast growing floating Amazon Frogbit in the tank and believe that to be a nitrate muncher extraordinaire - so it clouds the problem a little and could well be that they are depleting the nitrates...  A factor here is no water changes for a couple of weeks and this is because of experimentation with the Phosguard while knowing that my tap water has high phosphate levels...  Needed to try and gauge how effective the Phosguard is...  This could mean that the Frogbit has had more time with the same water to consume the nitrates but could also mean that your idea is true and the Phosguard is stripping out nitrates as well as phosphates...  Gonna have to approach this with a diagnostic mentality and attempt to identify what is reducing the nitrates... 

Will be doing a water change tomorrow, for sure though...  so that may throw a curved ball into the equation... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 24, 2018, 11:20:39 PM
Well, what a day...!!!  Visit to Wharf Aquatics and now have three more juvenile Rabbit snails and one new 'centre piece' fish, for want of a better expression...  Did look at the Neon Dwarf Rainbows, as planned, but somehow they failed to woo me enough to take the plunge...  To my eyes, the stock they had looked a little washed out of colour, just enough to put that little seed of doubt in my mind, so Operation NDR is on hold for the time being...  BUT...  the new fish, which I am super excited about (something that will likely make you all chortle at least a little, lol) is a lovely looking (imho) humble Platy: 

(https://imagez.to/i/8KWE3nEg.jpg)
(https://imagez.to/i/V0Thm6Fb.jpg)


Anyways, had the chance to speak with the planted tank guru at Wharf, a smashing lad called Adam, and told him about the various issues that I currently have...  Firstly, the excess phosphates, secondly the zero nitrates and then the arrival of the filamentous algae and the green algae where the sand meets the glass...  Adam's considered explanation, or theory, is this: 

He was of the opinion that what's happening is that all these issues are in fact likely to be directly connected and probably centre around the plants "stalling" in growth because of the lack of nitrates...  Combined with the excess phosphates, this has paved the way for the recent growth in the two algae varieties that I'm now seeing and that they will be sucking up any residual nitrates and enjoying the phosphates etc, while the plants are failing to compete with them due to the insufficient and unbalanced nutrients... 

I did fill him in on the tank set up details etc with info on plant numbers and types, water parameters, tank size, livestock etc...  Also told him about currently using TNC Lite, on the grounds that I didn't want to add extra phosphates...  His advice is to switch back to TNC Complete because of the extra NPK and explained that if the plants can get growing properly again, then there will be no need to worry about the phosphates so much as the plants will start to consume them more...  He also advised to cut back on the amount of Amazon Frogbit I allow in the tank, on the grounds that it does consume nitrates so readily but also suggested that I can keep using the Seachem Phosguard for the time being...  So far as dosage for the TNC Complete, his recommendation is to use two thirds recommended weekly dose, but twice per week - to help avoid that feast & famine type deal of once weekly dosing...  Stick to this for a few weeks and see how things progress...  He was of the view that getting the plants back on track will have the effect of making them out compete the algae and that it should therefore recede quite naturally etc... 

Bizarre in a way, insomuch as I assumed that I had to deal with the excess phosphates as one issue and the algae as an entirely separate issue...  After Adam's explanation, it does all make sense and the timing probably does fit what's been happening too... 

So, I estimate 150 litres of water in my 170 litre tank and the TNC recommended dose is 1ml per 10 litres, or 15ml total, per week...  I have today dosed with two thirds of that; 10ml and will do the same in a few days time...  I had been dosing 5ml TNC Lite once a week, so the change in regime is a big one and hopefully things should get back onto something like an even keel as soon as possible, leastways I certainly hope so...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 25, 2018, 12:00:22 AM
What Adam said certainly makes sense to me.

A comment I read a couple weeks ago (in an old post on another forum) is that a planted tank will always have zero nitrates unless it is over stocked with fish, because the plants will always use up any available nitrates (after they've used up the fish produced nitrogen). Therefore nitrates = too many fish. I am of the opinion that there can be exceptions to this where another nutrient is lacking and therefore stunting growth and limiting the plants' uptake of nitrates.

But I think the gist of the other conversation is that in a properly stocked, heavily planted tank, it is always necessary to supplement NPK in some way.

The cheapest way to buy fertilisers is to get dry ones (transporting water is expensive!). I have got mine from here in the past and am still using up the last order I made.
http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 25, 2018, 12:21:28 AM
I think that there is a deficiency of both potassium and nitrogen evident, based on this diagram (and many other similar ones on t'interwb)

(https://imagez.to/i/2yKLefb4.jpg)

With the excessive phosphates, that adds up to a quite severely out of balance nutrition and I agree Helen, Adam's advice sounds bang on the money...

At 10ml Complete every few days, my bottle won't last that long so your suggestion of "going dry" may well be the answer for the long term...   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 25, 2018, 08:01:33 AM
That's a nice looking platy.  :)

As for the NDRs, the ones in the shop will look washed out, possibly because they are juveniles and are yet to fully develop their colours. Once they are settled in a tank, and given some time, they will look great.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 25, 2018, 09:34:19 AM
Thanks Donna...  :) 

Yeah, funny with the NDRs...  It was a bit of intuition really, or as the young 'uns might say, I just wasn't "feeling it" when I looked at the NDRs...  They didn't look anything remotely like bad in any way, but my gut feeling was to hold off for now...  Probably at the back of my mind was a degree of worry over getting the various other issues under control first...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 25, 2018, 12:40:47 PM
My NDRs were most definitely silver in the shop. It was possible to tell the gender of most of them, because the males had red on the fins and females yellow. Having said that, when I got home, there was one I wasn't sure about for a while. They coloured up pretty quickly and after several months in my tank they have a fabulous blue iridescence but are still not fully grown (about 3-4cm as opposed to 6cm). I'm wondering if the colour will get more spectacular as they get bigger.

But if you're not feeling it when in the shop, you've probably done the right thing. You never know, you might be able to go back in a few months when everything is sorted and get the same fish. I understand that they're not a great seller because you have to know that they will change colour dramatically and be patient.

I think one of the dry fertilisers is potassium nitrate powder.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 25, 2018, 01:19:59 PM
It's a funny old sensation, eh...  :)   But I also think it can be deceptive and misleading too, sometimes putting you off something that would actually be ideal and other times turning you on to something that's just not right for you (in my case, the Red Phantom Tetras are an example of that)...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 25, 2018, 06:26:18 PM
I'm a bit of a super planner. I go into the fish shop with a short list of options.   :yikes:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 25, 2018, 11:27:55 PM
Nice looking Platy.   :afro

Adams advice fits nicely with my most recent thinking on your situation, the only thing I would add would be to dose your ferts daily if at all possible as this will further alleviate any feast or famine issues.  I also probably wouldn't be continuing to use the phosguard personally. I would always advise slightly overdosing a complete fertiliser and doing a big water change to reset levels in the tank weekly.  That was any excess phos or even a micro element such as iron can be prevented from getting too high. 

Now this might sound obvious but... It sounds like you have had good growth in the past so... just go back to what you were doing before
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 25, 2018, 11:50:04 PM
Thanks Matt...  :) 

He's growing on me more and more the lad...  Earlier this evening, he was just chillin' under the roots of some A.Frogbit - something the Tetras never do...  But then you also see him doing what looks to me like he's playing, but obviously by himself...  a sorta game of almost hide & seek, lol...  Yeah, definitely got some character, and gentle as you like too...!!!  He bothers nobody and nobody bothers him...  Talking of the hide & seek, there was a short period where he was doing exactly that, but with some of the Pristella Tetras...  Great addition to the tank and super pleased right now...

With the plants, the trouble is that there is a classic shifting sands type deal, where I am adding more plants every now and again as an ongoing thing, plus most are root feeders but I have been recently adding more water column feeders...  Then of course some plants are growing quite fast etc...  so that notion of sticking to what always used to work might actually be where I've gone off the rails a little, where perhaps I should have changed (or increased, more appropriately) the fertiliser routine to match up to the expanding & literally growing plant collection...? 

I like your thoughts on more regular dosing of subsequently smaller amounts, to iron out the feast & famine even further...  That would essentially equate to 3ml per day for roughly the same weekly total amount...  I might well in fact implement that tout suite...!!!  Then there is the question of what to do next once I have managed to kick start healthy plant growth again...?  I would guess that the best plan would be to slowly reduce the ferts to a less intense level, although keeping them higher than I had been doing that allowed the plants to stutter & stall...?

Point also noted Matt about keeping on top of regular water changes while dosing at this higher than recommended level...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 26, 2018, 12:00:21 AM
I agree with your thoughts @TopCookie

Also nice to know the platy seems to be 'playing' with his tank mates.. I find that comforting and amusing in equal measure!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 26, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
Great to hear that your platy has settled in so well.  :)

I also dose ferts daily, which was recommended by the owner of Aquarium Gardens.
I also agree that sticking with what used to work would be a good idea. Sometimes it's easy to get distracted by an apparent problem and getting into a right tizzy. It's worth going back and seeing how your normal routine works out now.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 26, 2018, 10:32:22 AM
I hear that...!!!  The trap of getting caught up and "distracted by an apparent problem and getting into a right tizzy..." 

Funnily enough, one thing that I have been learning in my short fishkeeping career so far is that quite a lot of apparent problems seem to sort themselves out if left alone to their own devices...  I had a spell of excess micro-critters at one point and that really did throw me into a major tizzy...  There were a bunch of what I think may have been detritus worms, plus the tiny little white swimmy/darty critters etc...  That really got to me, but then in a blink of an eye, I stopped seeing them...!!!  I do still have a slight issue with limpets, but the worms and darty little tinkers have all vanished now...!!!  There have been other things along the way too, which have had a similar tizzy inducing affect, but seemed to iron themselves out when given time...

I guess the lesson both there and with what you guys, @Matt & @Littlefish, are saying is not to make kneejerk reactions to such problems...  :) 

I will stick with Adam's advice, fine tuned to daily dosing rather than twice weekly, after what you guys have suggested...  Will do some water changes along the way of course, but will essentially look to be going "back to normal" other than a revised fertiliser routine to allow for the greater number and diversity of plants...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 26, 2018, 02:51:47 PM
... Adams advice fits nicely with my most recent thinking on your situation, the only thing I would add would be to dose your ferts daily if at all possible as this will further alleviate any feast or famine issues. 

Daily ferts started today @ 3ml TNC Complete   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 26, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
I agree - the platy is lovely 8) (so much so that I even checked the water parameters to see whether even a remote possibility for me - unfortunately definitely not), and it's good to hear about what he's been up to - keep us posted on how he's doing.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 26, 2018, 06:24:37 PM
I am still sorely tempted by another one, but an entirely different colour this time just for the variety of it, as he is a little charmer for sure...   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 26, 2018, 09:35:13 PM
If you've got the stocking space, why not!  I don't believe males are aggressive to each other?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 27, 2018, 01:06:55 AM
Do you know what has been most surprising thing about getting this Platy, is that it is the more experienced and advanced fish keepers who are the ones that openly say how nice the new Platy is and are complimentary about him...  I kinda assumed that it would be the more novice/new fish keepers who would comment so positively...  That has been really refreshing and lovely actually...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 27, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
Day 4 of Operation Kickstart report... 

Today is the fourth day since implementing Adam's advice for dealing with what appears to be a combined/linked, problem set... 

I've gotta say, the monster dose of TNC Complete and subsequent booster shots, for want of a better expression, looks to be making a difference already to the Hygrophila Costata plants, which just look that little bit greener and happier...  The Ludwigia repens Rubin looks slower to react and I may have actually lost one (hard to tell at the mo), but conversely, they also look just a little bit happier on new growth... 

I would go so far as to say that a little optimism is returning, after the initial sense of dread and woe....!!!

The Black Helmet Nerite is a distinct part of the green algae plan and as for the filamentous algae, I have pulled off some of the larger tufts with some leaves and cut out any leaves that looked a bit too accommodating of that stuff...!!!

The surface skimmer filter is being run almost all of the time at the moment too, partly for additional flow in the tank and partly because I do still want to try and keep on top of the excessive phosphates for now - at least until the "loadsa ferts" plan gets a bit further down the line... 

Definitely a happier looking tank and happier feeling Cookie today...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 01:22:42 AM
I agree - the platy is lovely 8) (so much so that I even checked the water parameters to see whether even a remote possibility for me - unfortunately definitely not), and it's good to hear about what he's been up to - keep us posted on how he's doing.

I gotta say, this posting really made my day btw fcmf...  :)   Often times, it's far more esoteric species that impress the more advanced/experienced fishkeepers, so it has been a pleasant surprise that you guys have pretty much all said nice things about the new member of the Crew...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 28, 2018, 12:30:51 PM
There are a lot of under-rated fish around, and I think that the platy is one of them. They have lovely colouring and a quite placid fish.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 01:18:39 PM
Well, temptation truly got the better of me...!!!  After be so instantly charmed by my lone Platy, I just had to get another one...  So far, so good...  But, on the grounds that I am partially colour blind, I took Mrs Cookie with me to Wharf, to help choose...  Needless to say, she took such a shine to some sorta light blue Platys, that she decided (before I could blink...!!!) that we were having two...!!! 

Just acclimating at the mo...  Pics to follow later today at some point...  But again, they are lovely looking fish, the pair of them (and both also males)...   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 01:34:26 PM
I have to confess to keeping slightly unusual fish. In 20 years, I've already kept most of the 'common' fish suitable for my water - and lot that weren't  :-[ - so I have moved on to something a bit different. But nothing exotic or I'd probably kill them all  ;D
But I can still admire a good looking fish from one of the 'bread and butter' species, platies included.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 28, 2018, 02:32:07 PM
Looking forward to seeing the pics.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 04:35:59 PM
Well, here they are...   :D 

Fun and games when first introduced though - they immediately started chasing all the other fish, particularly the Pristella Tetras, who for me are the royalty in the tank...  Then we had to go out for a spell and by the time we came back, things have settled down and significantly less chasing going on now...  Will be watching them closely though, because if they do fin nip at my Pristellas, they will be going straight back to whence they came, double pronto...!!!  Oddly, that first one never did that at all... :o

Good looking little bighters though and I certainly hope they do settle into community life well... 

At the mo, they are all over the place, so pics are a tad motion blurred, but here we go...

(https://imagez.to/i/pnUos56v.jpg)
(https://imagez.to/i/ZVLJahln.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 04:38:00 PM
They are pretty  :)

When you said blue, i imagined the type with pale blue bodies and a red tail like I once had (in soft water  :-[ )
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 04:42:05 PM
They do look darker already now...  like their colour has become richer...  and, they do seem to change shade of colour a lot depending on the viewing angle etc... 

I fed them immediately, once the chasing started...  that definitely seemed to calm things a little, as if the poor things were just plain starving and hadn't worked out yet what is food and what is other fish etc...  Really hope they stop that malarkey quickly though...!!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 04:48:16 PM
They look like neon blue tuxedos (says she after a quick google  ;D )
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 04:52:37 PM
Is that good, or bad...?  I'm entirely unfamiliar with the various types of Platys...  I did see the name, but looked at every variety and was a bit overwhelmed by the amount of choices etc... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 28, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
Lovely! I do hope they calm down a bit. If they don't, I'll send my female x-ray tetra or the territorial harlequin on a "holiday" to you and either one of them will put them in their place!

I fed them immediately, once the chasing started... 
Just be careful they don't learn that chasing results in food being produced.  ;)

I particularly like fish with whom it's possible to have meaningful eye contact - that's why I'm not certain about cardinals and cherry barbs which have markings that "interrupt" that eye contact, whereas a platy is definitely one that enables it. There's also something about a platy's caudal fin that's different to any fish I have and that I particularly like.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 04:58:41 PM
There are not really any good or bad varieties with the caveat that they more extreme patterns/colours will be more inbred, and probably weaker fish because of that.

The fish that catch your eye are the good fish  ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 05:36:49 PM
All still looking calm now and the original Platy spending some time with the two new ones in a sort of mini shoal type deal...  I bet that won't last long, but it's nice to see at the mo...  :)

I know I've said this before, since getting the first Platy four days ago, but I'm so impressed by how lovely looking these humble fish are...  I was potentially in danger of slowly becoming a species snob, but it is these more "common" varieties that end up as my faves, especially the Pristella Tetras, but now Platys too...  :) 

NB:  should the plural of Platy be Platys or Platies...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 06:36:09 PM
Seriously Fish spells it platies in the Notes section of Xiphophorus variatus.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on April 28, 2018, 07:17:54 PM
I have long wanted to have a platy tank.  I found the behaviour of endlers offputting though. Sounds like these behave differently though.  I must admit you have sparked my interest again... those are some very good looking fish!

  :fishy1:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 28, 2018, 07:46:17 PM
Congratulations on your new arrivals. Great colours.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 11:34:38 PM
Thanks guys...  :)

By late this evening, the behaviour has changed again; now the three Platies (noted) are hanging out but there is obviously a pecking order dispute going on, in that they are kinda chasing each other now - but each one of the three of them seems to have a turn at being the chaser, lol...  I don't doubt that this will become established at some point and probably quite soon too, but for now I am just glad that they're not chasing my beloved Tetras any more...!!!

Certainly a species that is very interesting and abundantly colourful in both appearance and character  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 29, 2018, 09:32:07 AM
I used to have endlers (again hard water fish in soft water  :-[ ) and they always behaved like that. They would all chase one, then they'd change direction and all chase another. It was like a game of tag in reverse. They never made contact with each other, just this constant swimming round. Female endlers were different - they just swam quietly round scouring the substrate for specks of food.

Keep an eye on them though, you never know what's going on in a fish's mind   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 29, 2018, 12:33:52 PM
All calm and quiet on the Western Front so far today...  The three Platies swimming around together, mostly higher up in the water column, but no chasing or bickering seen this morning...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 29, 2018, 12:59:49 PM
Managed to get a shot of all three in the same frame...  A bit much motion blur, but not too bad...

(https://imagez.to/i/6zZVolpE.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 29, 2018, 01:23:03 PM
Well done for pre-empting what I (and others, no doubt) were thinking ie "let's see a photo of all 3". Thanks - they look so lovely.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 29, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
This has got me thinking now ! I could put some Variatus Platies in my pond instead of the Odessa Barbs. These three look lovely.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 29, 2018, 01:58:19 PM
I did my Platy buying fairly quickly - well, very quickly really - but I would wager that with a little more time & patience, there will easily be even nicer looking ones around...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 29, 2018, 06:22:57 PM
Great to see all 3 of them together. Glad that they are settling quickly.  ;D   :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 29, 2018, 08:54:20 PM
They do look lovely fish. I briefly considered livebearers for my tank until I read the water parameters. My water is way too soft.  :(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 29, 2018, 10:26:47 PM
I briefly considered livebearers for my tank until I read the water parameters. My water is way too soft.  :(
When I converted from goldfish- to tropical-keeping and had a look round the LFS, it was all the livebearers which attracted me. Thanks to using this website to do my research, I realised it was not going to be possible. I couldn't recall the exact requirements, though, so double-checked the other day when I saw how lovely TC's first platy was, but realised it's definitely way off the radar for me too.  :(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 29, 2018, 10:50:51 PM
At the moment, I am sorry to say that my initial enthusiasm has waned a little right now...  :(   The two new additions have spent the majority of their time squabbling and of course the original one joins in too...  I fear that some damage may occur soon, particularly to the smallest of the three, who seems to want to swim with the two slightly larger ones, while they are both hell bent on bullying him...  There are moments when things look peaceful, but after spending much more time watching them today, I'm starting to think that the two new ones might well have to be returned - possibly all three, if the original one then turns his attentions to the Tetras etc... 

I have, as you guys know, no real experience to fall back on and would be delighted if somebody were to pop up and tell me:  "don't worry about that Pierre, it's normal for Platies to squabble for a day or two...", but somehow, I can't believe that is likely to happen now...  Frustrating on a mammoth scale though, as all the info suggests that Platies are great community fish - but they are worse than the Red Phantom Tetras in fact...   :(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 08:52:22 AM
Sorry to hear that the squabbling is a problem.

Before I say anything else I just want to point out that I have not kept a group of male platies, but I have kept the v. platies, but in a mixed group, with only 1 male, as my first fish. The original fish have all passed, but I still have 2 females which are the offspring of the original fish. I will say that the behaviour of the male towards the female he decide to breed with was a tad disturbing as it seemed quite violent and unrelenting. This may just be the "language" that they use.

Squabbling - I would expect a group of males to squabble to establish some sort of pecking order. Keep an eye on them to check for any damage to the fish, or to see if there is any increase in the squabbling. The only thing I can relate it to is the group of panda garras in my river tank. They bicker like siblings, sometimes they will happily share a rock, and feed together, other times they fight, barge into each other, and case each other around the tank. The rest of the fish species don't tend to take much notice.

The other thing is that as well as individual fish having their own personalities, different platy varieties may also have slightly different personalities. Is the smaller one also the one that is a different colour?

Obviously returning the fish is the final solution to the problem, and I can't say if the squabbling is temporary or not, but do they ever seem to get along any more? Are they all ok together at feeding time? Are the other fish species ok with the platy behaviour? Lot's to discuss before any final decisions are made.


Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
I've had a bit of a rummage around on t'internet to see if there is any more information that would help.

Several people have mentioned keeping all male groups of platies and seeing aggressive behaviour. Some say it calms down once a pecking order is established, some have returned fish, or added females.
Others say that the males will attempt to mate with any other platy. I have seen this previously when I had a mixed group, and they are not stylish with their advances, opting for more of a "surprise attack" rather than a long term seduction technique.

As for your smaller fish - has it lost colour? Does it hide away? Has it gone off its food? Is it showing signs of stress? If it does not look stressed then I'd suggest that the group behaviour is just establishing order. You've mentioned that your little one keeps trying to join the gang, which is not the sort of behaviour I'd expect from a stressed fish, so perhaps there is hope for your group.

Don't panic yet, they've not been together long, things may calm down over the next few days. Monitor the situation closely and please keep us updated.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 10:19:54 AM
Some good, pertinent, questions there guys...  This morning's report:

Today, most notably with the tank lights off, they are all three swimming together still, in a little shoal type affair...  There doesn't appear to be any nipping, but the original fella is still swimming after, or closely following, the smaller one of the two newer blue ones...  This original one is the more persistent in harassing the others, but the larger of the two newer blue ones is not at all far behind...  Not seen any of the sharper/faster movements this morning, it's more like constantly following the smaller one... 

The smaller one hasn't lost colour and is still looking like he wants to swim with the other two - which is sorta odd considering he is the main victim of this behaviour...  Certainly not hiding away...  Feeding time is fine, they all concentrate on eating as much as they can, as fast as they can...!!!  I would at this point say that they don't look especially stressed - I do though, lol...!!!

One thing I have noticed and have noticed before actually, which is that in the presence of squabbling fish, the Cardinals and Pristellas tend to copy the behaviour a little...  They have done this for a while now, originally copying the Red Phantom Tetras, but as the RPTs have slowly calmed a bit that too spread to the other Tetras...  With the new Platies bickering such a lot more than the RPTs, it has set all the Tetras off that little bit again...

I did choose all males deliberately, on the grounds that I was told that it's not unusual to buy females and find that one or more of them already be pregnant and finish up with a bunch of newborns in the tank even with no adult males present... 

I desperately hope they do settle down into a peaceful groove as they are so lovely looking...  They steal the show, visually, even more so than the Cardinals - and that's not easy to do of course...   So, fingers crossed that this situation is temporary... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
The situation sounds quite promising.
I can understand the original one being the instigator of the behaviour. He was there first, so perhaps he's just making that known to the new arrivals.
It's great to hear that the little one hasn't lost colour, and doesn't look stressed.
Sometimes a community tank is more stressful for the owner than the fish.
I can also understand wanting to keep a single sex group, they are prolific breeders.
Fingers crossed that the whole gang settles in together.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on April 30, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
My harlies fight when I made new additions. In fact I have had a death within a week  of the last two times I've added new fish. At the last addition, I'd hoped that adding a lot of fish, smaller fish and different species might reduce the hierarchy fights. But I still found a body a few days later. I'm not sure what it was because the snails had been snacking, but there was enough orange red colour for me think it was a harlie or espeii rasbora. Harlequin makes more sense from the fighting, but I think it was too small and I can account for all the harlies. But it makes less sense for it to be an older espeii (the new ones were a lot smaller, so I know it wasn't one of them).

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a fiveband barb.

Edit: my point is that even good community fish can change their normal behaviour when they get new tank mates - until things settle down. I don't think your platies sound like they're fighting enough for you to find a body!! :yikes:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
I was going to go over to Stockport today, family visiting, but think I'm gonna stick around instead, go tomorrow probably...  Feeling less panicked now (thanks you guys :))) but still a little anxious...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 07:08:12 PM
Through the course of the day and especially since the lights came on @ 2:00pm, the Platies have been hard at it again, constantly squabbling and looking increasingly more aggressive actually...  Then to top it off, one of them had an exploratory nip at one of my Amano shrimp...!!! 

That sealed their fate and they have to go...!!!  Gutted to be honest right now, but I definitely can't accept newcomers to the tank having a go at established residents like that...  Only question is, whether or not to keep the original orange one and just return the other two newer ones - or write this off as a failed experiment...?

One factor that points to writing them off is that my water is in that "moderately hard" bracket @ 8.77dGH and the Platies are Variatus if I'm not mistaken, and they like water a little harder than mine really... 

Definitely gutted, but I just can't handle fighting fish in the tank, especially once they start pecking at my Amanos...!!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 30, 2018, 07:21:24 PM
Personally, I think you're making the right decision. Although behaviour can/does change among tank inhabitants over time, it sounds as though this is only going to get worse such as a fatality and others learning that bad behaviour. Do you have a separate tank/container, heater and filter that you can move the two newbies into and see how the existing platy fares, and indeed if the tank settles down once again, once "normality" is restored? I think this first one deserves to be given a chance as all was fine when he was the sole platy, and he was a good addition to the tank.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on April 30, 2018, 07:22:25 PM
In fishkeeping terms, I would say your water is not even moderately hard maybe just slightly hard. Your 'moderately hard' sounds like what a water company would say, and their definitions are not the same as in fish keeping.

Personally I would say moderately hard starts at 10 dH, with hard starting at 12 or 13.


I would use this as the excuse to take all the platies back. Getting some females - at least 2 females for every male - would probably calm them down, but 6 females would have an awful lot of fry, every month.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on April 30, 2018, 07:27:51 PM
I've just had a look at SF to re-check the hardness. The 'variatus' requires 14+ while the 'maculatus' requires 10+. You might get away with the 'maculatus' but you're quite a bit off the requirements of the 'variatus' - is it definitely the latter you have? If so, on the basis of that, and I see Sue's replied to the same effect, maybe it's time to bid them all goodbye...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 07:31:10 PM
Yeah, I think so too...  All three really...  But what an absolute crying shame though...  :'(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 08:34:36 PM
Sorry to hear that your platies became more aggressive today.
Such a shame that things didn't work out.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on April 30, 2018, 10:30:27 PM
I understand the Variatus platies like cooler temperatures (16-25C), that’s why I was looking at them for my pond. Although based on what @TopCookie said about one of them “having a go at the Amano’s” I don’t think I’ll bother.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 10:32:26 PM
I've managed to catch the two newer blue ones and separate them...  Tons of irony now, lol, but the two are getting along just fine outside of the main tank, and the original orange one, now that he's alone again, is behaving perfectly fine...!!!  Not sure I'll get the chance to catch him now as he's a bit spooked with the other two suddenly missing, so it might be back with the two blue ones tomorrow and Mr Orange may have a day or two respite...!!!  The dynamic in the whole tank is different again now - like it should be again...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
This must sound like a daft question, but is it possible that two fish (or more) have a clash of personality in the way that sometimes humans themselves do...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 11:16:30 PM
I understand the Variatus platies like cooler temperatures (16-25C), that’s why I was looking at them for my pond. Although based on what @TopCookie said about one of them “having a go at the Amano’s” I don’t think I’ll bother.

If it's any consolation I have 2 female v. platies in my temperate tank and they are fine with the amano shrimp.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 11:19:48 PM
This must sound like a daft question, but is it possible that two fish (or more) have a clash of personality in the way that sometimes humans themselves do...?

Possibly, I guess....with yours you may have had the orange fish as the original platy clashing with the larger blue platy, both trying to assert dominance, with the smaller blue one being more submissive...but who knows with fish.  :-\
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 11:34:09 PM
I also wonder if the larger blue one is a little bit rogue...  but then, the orange one made a b-line for the little one once the larger blue was removed...  I dunno, but it definitely looks like me n Platies are a not happening thing...   :-\
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 01, 2018, 08:58:13 AM
Such a disappointing situation.  :(

It's not always easy to achieve harmony in a tank, nature doesn't always adhere to expectations, and sometimes difficult decisions have to be made.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 01, 2018, 04:18:11 PM
Phase 1 of Plan B accomplished...!!!  Both the two newer blue Platies now safely back at Wharf Aquatics...  :)   I couldn't catch the original orange one in good time, so he's still in the tank but looks to be behaving impeccably... 

So, at least the heat is off again for now and I am far more confident about keeping Platy #1 a few more days whilst formulating a new plan for a "feature fish" variety... 

I had the chance to chat to a great store chap by the name of Ross and we talked for a little while about what I was after...  This is basically a small'ish and good looking fish that will spend the bulk of its time in the upper half of the tank and should be happy either alone or in small numbers within a larger Tetras mostly community...  Also, should not be a problem with Amano shrimp or snails... 

In the meantime, I've also had a butchers at this article about Dwarf Gourami:  https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/lets-hear-it-for-the-dwarf-gourami 

Managed to see some in Wharf, and Honeys and Sparkling etc...  They had a few colour varieties of the Dwarf G's and I have to confess to liking them all...!!!  We talked about the disease that affects the Dwarf G's too and in this respect, Ross did set my mind at ease over that particular issue... 

Sooooooo...  my next question to you guys n gals is centred on Dwarf Gouramis, what you think of them, had any experience with them etc...?  And not least of all, would you think that one, maybe two, would make good additions to The Cookie Crew...?   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 01, 2018, 04:44:37 PM
I've had several dwarf gouramis, honey gouramis and pearl gouramis. I do rather like gouramis but when restocking this time I decided to stay away from labyrinthine fish. They just don't do very well in my tank. The pearl gouramis lasted the longest, but then we started major building works and with the dust (even though I put sheets over the tank) I don't think the air quality was good enough for them, even when I got the water right.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 01, 2018, 07:10:23 PM
Dwarf gourami males have been known to kill females if the male is in the mood and the female isn't. If you decide on dwarfs, get at least 2 females per male. And make sure you speak to someone who knows what they are doing. When I tried dwarfs many years ago the chap in the shop insisted he had given me a standad colour male and female even though I said it was a standard male and a neon blue male. I was right.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 01, 2018, 09:39:17 PM
The more I look into Dwarf G's and the more feedback from you guys I hear, I'm going off the idea of Gouramis quite quickly... 

Feels like an impossible task, finding something for that upper half of the tank, is friendly and can be a single fish or small numbered group etc...   :-\

Anybody know much about these little tinkers:  https://www.thesprucepets.com/forktailed-rainbow-fish-4071595
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 01, 2018, 10:09:09 PM
I had a pair of Dwarf Gouramis in the past. They were quite peaceful and didn’t bother the other tankmates. However, they didn’t last long (about 6 months). My water is extremely hard, so , I am assuming this might be the problem. I have also had Honey Gouramis which seem to be a bit hardier.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 01, 2018, 10:30:32 PM
Anybody know much about these little tinkers:  https://www.thesprucepets.com/forktailed-rainbow-fish-4071595
Hard water is one of their requirements - http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pseudomugil-furcatus/at minimum 268 ppm which equates to 15 DH - unfortunately.
PS. Sorry for uncharacteristically brief reply this evening.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 01, 2018, 10:50:38 PM
Your tank looks fairly long and roomy. Is there a possibility of homing hatchet fish or is it ‘open topped’ ?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 01, 2018, 11:19:21 PM
That is one fish that does keep cropping up actually...  Tank is 1 metre long and does have lids (x2 - one either side of a central LED lighting bar), although there are two rectangular cut-outs for the pipe work and wiring etc, which are potentially large enough to be a factor with airborn Hatchets...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 01, 2018, 11:22:06 PM
Just scouring the Wharf Aquatics stock lists now and double checking all potential candidates on Seriously Fish...  To be honest though, it feels like looking for a needle in a haystack...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 02, 2018, 12:37:59 AM
That is one fish that does keep cropping up actually...  Tank is 1 metre long and does have lids (x2 - one either side of a central LED lighting bar), although there are two rectangular cut-outs for the pipe work and wiring etc, which are potentially large enough to be a factor with airborn Hatchets...?
If holes aren't massive, you could address this by stuffing filter wool in to block/plug up the gaps.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 02, 2018, 12:49:47 AM
How about http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/peacock-goby.html?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 02, 2018, 07:01:14 AM
In my experience with honey gourami they can be aggressive to each other yes, but they tend not to be aggressive to other species. One kept singly in your tank might work well.  If you liked sparkling gourami, also take a look at licorice gourami. These are very peaceful fish. One of my favourites.  They would hurt a flea.

EDIT: regretting that statement already after 'water flea' popped into my head, as im pretty sure they would really enjoy eating them!... ahh well, just an expression.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 02, 2018, 07:44:57 AM
That is one fish that does keep cropping up actually...  Tank is 1 metre long and does have lids (x2 - one either side of a central LED lighting bar), although there are two rectangular cut-outs for the pipe work and wiring etc, which are potentially large enough to be a factor with airborn Hatchets...?

I have a group of 8 hatchets, and haven't lost any to air borne activities. I like the shape, it's so different to everything else in the tank. If you have any concerns just pop some filter media in tank lid holes.
 :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 09:53:02 AM
When my nerites went through a period of going for nocturnal walks outside the tank, filter wool in the cable holes worked wonders  :)


You are looking for:
Smallish fish
Fish that can be kept alone or smallish numbers
Fish that swim in the upper regions of the tank
Fish that don't require either very soft or very hard water as yours is ~dH 9


The problem is that most smallish fish tend to be shoaling. Small non-shoaling fish tend to be bottom dwelling (eg dwarf cichlids) or gouramis.

I have fcmf's suggestion of peackock gudgeons/gobies in my tank which don't grow very big, would be fine for your water, can be kept as a pair or trio but are bottom dwelling.
I have Daisy's ricefish (Oryzias woworae) which are small, fine in your water, swim in the upper part of the tank but are shoaling fish that need a group of at least 8.


Another upper swimming fish to add to hatchets - hockey stick pencilfish http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/Nannostomus-eques/, the main problem being that they are shoaling, and may be intimidated by some of your other fish.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 10:04:17 AM
You are looking for:
Smallish fish
Fish that can be kept alone or smallish numbers
Fish that swim in the upper regions of the tank
Fish that don't require either very soft or very hard water as yours is ~dH 9

Spot on Sue...  :)

Peacock Gobies and Hatchet fish were on my original wish-list from day one, and I agree that they're both really interesting fish...  Love the mad shape of the Hatchets and the colouring in the Peacocks...   Honey Gouramis are another good suggestion that has crossed my mind before now...  Pencil fish are a new idea to me though... 

In each case, there's always some factor or other that just puts me off that little bit, introduces a fraction of doubt...  Hatchets flying out of tank, Peacocks "may attack shrimp", same shrimp thing with the Honeys, then the odd angle of the Pencils... 

So frustrating, but then I know I'm almost certainly aiming for something that simply doesn't exist and that there are no perfect, compromise free, options...   :-\
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 10:16:12 AM
I have peacock gudgeons and cherry shrimp. They may possibly attack the shrimps when I'm not looking, but I have witnessed a shrimp stealing food from under the nose - almost out of the mouth - of my big male gudgeon with no reaction from the fish. All my gudgeons tend to ignore the shrimps. Same with my honey gourami, I've never seen one take any interest in a shrimp.

The ricefish are a different matter. They do chase and kill juvenile cherry shrimp but not adults. Amano shrimps would be just too big for them and as they don't breed in fresh water, no baby amanos for them to eat.

There are many species of pencilfish, some very delicate, some very expensive. I used to have golden pencilfish (aka beckford's pencilfish) http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nannostomus-beckfordi/ which were fine in my tank but I have since read that males can be quite nasty towards each other. I did not witness this but then I did have more than 6 of them.
Before the incident with a very nasty infection of whitespot wiping out almost all my fish, I had mainly south American fish. Afterwards I restocked with Asian fish, but had I kept with south American fish, three lined pencilfish http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/nannostomus-trifasciatus/ would have been high on my list.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 10:27:39 AM
Of these recent suggestions, it is the Peacock Goby that is the stand out fish to me so far...  Glad to hear that there were no shrimp issues Sue...  These could well now be at the top of the new wish-list...  :)

The world of nano-fish also appeals, such as Galaxy Rasboras and such like and just been reading about the little Lambchop Rasboras (Espei)

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trigonostigma-espei/ 

Just not sure that I would qualify as sufficiently advanced to keep tiny fish like that... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 10:28:23 AM
Killifish!


Why didn't I think about them before? Probably because SF doesn't have many.

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/why-dont-more-people-keep-killies
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/2016/7/22/get-started-with-killifish
http://www.killi.co.uk/
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 10:33:02 AM
You posted as I was typing  :)

I also have espe's rasboras  ;D I bought them as Trigonostigma hengeli but now they've matured I'm 99% sure they're T. espei. They do tend to take fright easily, and when I had no floating plants they hid in the back corner of the tank. I bought some floating plants and as they grew to cover the surface the espeis came further and further out from the corner, but only as far as the plant cover allowed. Now the plants cover the entire surface they are everywhere, including swimming round the siphon tube during a water change.
There's always Trigonostigma heteromorpha - harlequins.


Have a look at my fish https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/gallery-showcase/sue's-fish-may-2017/
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 11:00:56 AM
Just had a butchers at your thread Sue...  The Stiphodons look and sound awesome...!!!  Love the Peacocks too...  They are winning the race at the moment in fact...!!!

The Lambchops are flying up the wish-list league table as well...  Being so small, I'm sure I'd get away with a shoal in terms of stocking levels... 

Might just be a trip to Wharf this affy, see if they have either the Lambchops or Peacocks in stock...   :D

Edit:  The Killifish do look amazing for sure...  They sound like one for a more experienced aquarist than myself though, as do the Stiphodons...  Which is a great pity... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 11:07:21 AM
Strictly speaking I shouldn't have the stiphodons. They like fast moving water but the rest of my fish don't, so the filter current is not terribly strong. They should really be in a tank like Littlefish's river tank. But having said that, they seem to be doing well.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 11:08:04 AM
Just rang Wharf...  Peacocks & Lambchops in stock...!!!  Mad price difference though, lol...  The little Rasboras are very cheap whereas the Peacocks most definitely aren't...!!!   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 11:13:08 AM
If you decide on the gudgeons, in your tank you should be OK with 2 males but you would also need 2+ females which might put you off more than just one male. 1 m and 1 or 2 f would be fine. They can be difficult to sex as juveniles. Mature males have that distinctive shaped head but juvenile males don't. Look at the anal fin. Females' anal fins have a dark edge. The literature says black but it can also be dark red.
You will also need some sort of cave if you don't already have anything the male can call home.


Word of warning about peacock gudgeons. Their eyes can look funny. In some lights they are red, in others they are white, almost as if they are covered in fungus. Don't panic  ;D



Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 12:27:10 PM
Similar discussion taking place on the TFF UK forum, on my "The Cookie Crew" thread over there...  One lass, also called Sue, has just told me that she had problems with Peacocks, well, just one of them, nipping the tail fins of Neon Tetras, to the point of bits of tail missing and then having to re-home the Peacocks...  :(   By her own admission, she feels it may have been a bit of a rogue fish as it was just one doing this, but that's what I am desperate to avoid, especially as catching fish is proving to be so tricky in my tank... 

Curved balls all over the place right now, all of which make deciding a bit of a task...  If the Peacocks may have an inclination towards fin nipping and potentially probing at the shrimp, then this drops them down the wish-list and makes the Espei Rasboras sneak into the top position...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 02, 2018, 01:55:26 PM
I can only say that the only fish in my tank with nipped tail fins are the ricefish, and they do it to each other.

But apart from the stiphodons which also spend time on the bottom of the tank, the only other fish which spend time on the tank floor are the gudgeons, and you said you'd prefer fish that swim in the upper regions. The espe's rasboras do fit that bill - and are cheaper if you ever decide they aren't for you.
There are two colour morphs of harlequin - standard and black/purple/royal - espe's rasboras and hengel's rasboras which have pretty much the same requirements and behaviour. Apart from the black/purple/royal harlequins (same fish, different shops call them different names) they all look similar as well. The black etc harlequins are almost all black/very dark purple with orange noses.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 02:48:34 PM
A friend of mine keeps Harlequins, but I always call them Raspberries...  ;D 

The notion that the Chops are smaller fits nicely in terms of bio load in the tank, in my case, and they do look to have slightly nicer colouring than the Harlies, which is a bonus... 

For now though, I think it might be pertinent to perhaps just wait a little while and keep monitoring the lone Platy...  He is a bit of a poop monster, so I figure that it would be wise to re-home him before adding new residents (he probably poops about the same as an entire shoal of Chops...!!!)... 

Certainly at the moment though, it is the Espei Rasboras that top the table...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 03, 2018, 06:02:19 PM
After today's maintenance... 

(https://imagez.to/i/0t04twyV.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 03, 2018, 06:10:07 PM
You can see the little Eheim "Pickup 45" internal filter at the back left corner there...  Great little piece of kit that is...  :)

Also, the original Platy, up in the top right hand corner...  Little minx, he is...!!!   :fishy1:  :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 03, 2018, 06:44:56 PM
I get real tank envy when I see your tank.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 03, 2018, 06:57:24 PM
Like your planting. What are the clump of foreground plants behind the Marino moss ball ? I quite like the look of those.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 03, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Looking good.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 03, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
Thanks folks...  :)   It always gives me a great buzz when you guys say nice stuff, especially with me still being a newbie and you guys being properly experienced and knowledgeable etc...  :)

Like your planting. What are the clump of foreground plants behind the Marino moss ball ? I quite like the look of those.

Ah, funnily enough, that's one plant that has drawn compliments two or three times now...  It just went through a decidedly unhealthy looking phase due to malnutrition (which was my own fault) but is now on its way back to good health again after blitzing the tank with TNC Complete... 

The plant in question is:  http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Ludwigiapalustris(035B)/4453
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 04, 2018, 01:54:36 AM
I've been back on the CC (is it me, or does that sound bad, lol...?) and here's what it looks like if I were to add 10 x Rasbora Espei... 

I've opted for the "Oversized Internal" filter option, but have both external and internal filters now... 

(https://imagez.to/i/TCA6N7eH.png)

NB:  My Corys are bigger than S&Ps so I doubled the number to 8 when I have 4 in fact...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 04, 2018, 07:41:46 AM
That looks fine to me so far as stocking goes. I'd probably say that puts you are far as I would ordinarily go.  I've had tanks higher but that is a comfortable level.

By the way your tank is stunning  :))

Remind me again... do you dose CO2?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 04, 2018, 10:36:19 AM
I forgot the lone Platy on that CC, but he's just one fish to be fair and may well yet get removed and returned to Wharf...  I ought to make that a self imposed condition on getting the Espei really...  :)   Snail count is a little higher, after adding the one Black Nerite and a couple of baby Rabbit snails, but again I don't suppose that makes any real difference as CC doesn't give them as any load... 

On the CO2 front, no Matt...  I did try TNC Carbon once, but nearly nuked my Amanos, which put me off for life...!!! 

Other than that, it is a "dirted" tank, Diana Walstad style... 

PS:  thank you sir  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 04, 2018, 02:40:49 PM
On that whole (potentially) combined problem set, with the poorly plants, green algae and filamentous algae etc...  plus the zero nitrates but loadsa phosphates etc...  Here is the update, just in case anybody is bored enough to have followed this story, lol... 

Water parameters today:  Zero ammonia and nitrites, with the barest touch of nitrates - half way, roughly, between zero and 5ppm, which is definitely better than the zero ppm I was getting...!!!  Phosphates now around the 1ppm point, which I am delighted about when considering I get 2ppm from the tap and this would appear to indicate that the advice to overdose slightly with the nitrogen and phosphorus including TNC Complete appears to be working and kick started what may have been a stalled growth in many of the plants due to malnutrition...

No difference in algae on the front glass, beneath the substrate where it meets the sand, but I guess that will take time...  Also hard to be objective about the filamentous algae because I have trimmed the worst affected leaves off completely now, so I can't really comment on whether or not the theory that boosting plant growth will out-compete the hair algae for nutrients or not, but things are looking better - just hard to be sure why exactly...   Next Tuesday will be two weeks of overdosing with the TNC Complete, at which point I'll drop it from 3ml per day down to the correct dose of 2ml per day... 

Edit:  the only sad thing is that one of the two Ludwigia repens Rubin hasn't survived and has now been removed...  However, some of the taller stalks were cut off several days ago and just left floating, and one or two of these look to be colouring up nicely - so I may yet be able to salvage something from that plant...  Fingers crossed  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 04, 2018, 03:43:32 PM
Fingers crossed for your plants, especially the ludwigia cuttings. :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 04, 2018, 04:48:12 PM
I am semi-confident that the cuttings just might be ok...  Another week or two under the new ferts regime and if they're looking ok, I'll plant them back in the spot from where they were taken again, try and get them growing nicely...  Love the colours when looking healthy...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 04, 2018, 08:48:11 PM
I have managed to rescue a few plants from the brink like this in my time... always seems to take a frustratingly long time though!... good project though. I just got a hydrocotyle back from a single small stem to a full blown albeit small plant. Taken nearly 4 months!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 12:00:22 AM
I really hope that I can pull the Ludwigia Rubin back...  it's such a beatiful plant and full of glorious red colouring, when healthy...  But, admittedly, a not-so-easy plant to grow at it's best... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 05, 2018, 12:04:04 AM
I think it is worth cross referencing the CC against this website:
http://aqadvisor.com
I'd not used it until my last round of stocking calculations and I realised that there are two elements to calculating stock capacity. Size of the tank and filtration capacity. The cc kind of combines the two when you select the type of filter.

There is quite a lot of debate about whether filtration capacity should affect stock numbers, so this seems to be the point on which the Cc is considered weak.

Because I have a heavily planted tank, and no-one puts this into their calculations, my tank always looks overstocked on the filtration side. But by comparing the Cc and aqadvisor I have been able to put a bit of science behind the numbers that I've learned over the years 'fits' my tank. Aqadvisor has my tank currently at 94% tank capacity. And that feels right to me - busy but not too crowded. I also haven't used any of the juvenile sizes, even though a lot of my fish are still not fully grown. I'm stocking my tank for the long term.

Although my preference is the CC, because that's what I've used for so long, I think aqadvisor handles larger shoals a bit better. Eg. 12 espeii rasboras do not have twice the bioload of 6 espeii rasbora.

Anyway, I think comparisons of the information from the 2 calculations makes for interesting reading.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 12:07:15 AM
That's been mentioned before, I guess by you H...?  I did have a quick look but didn't fill details in...  Perhaps I should, eh...?  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 05, 2018, 12:16:25 AM
I think it was someone else that mentioned it. I picked up the link from someone else's post. But since using it, I have also mentioned it. Though possibly without the link.

I visited about half a dozen times before I could be bothered inputting all my data - it's not the most user friendly from a phone. But you can bookmark it with all your information and return at a later date.

It then took me several visits to 'translate' the information I was seeing. But once the penny dropped, I suddenly had answers for a lot of my previous questions.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 12:20:14 AM
Here is a quick "drive by" selection: 

(https://imagez.to/i/P2pl4BvR.png)


My external filter is 850 l/h not the 750 l/h I chose as the nearest thing here... 

The lone Platy will go before I get the Espei, although both are included above... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 12:36:55 AM
When I remove the Platy, it goes to: Filtration 105% & Stocking 101%
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 05, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Pierre, what is the plant almost in the middle of the tank that looks a bit like miniature underwater rhubarb?


According to the CC my main tank is 92% stocked, though I've had to substitute a lot of my fish for species in the database.
What the CC doesn't take into account is that with small shoaling fish (neon tetra sized) adding more does not necessarily increase the bioload. Increasing a shoal from 6 to 12 will not double the bioload because a shoal of 12 will be less stressed than a shoal of 6 so the impact on the tank is less per fish. My 92% stocking includes 12 espe's rasboras and about 18 daisy's rice fish - they won't keep still to count them.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 04:03:43 PM
This one I think you mean:  http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Nymphoideshydrophylla'Taiwan'(041BTC)/4463

Fast'ish grower, not too fast though and actually very easy to trim back, which does need doing periodically... 

That lone Platy is an Olympic standard pooh machine, I kid you not...!!!  I am personally convinced that a dozen Espei would actually create less waste than one greedy pig Platy...!!!   :rotfl:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 05, 2018, 04:11:16 PM
Platies do eat a lot of veg matter and unfortunately veg matter = lots of poo whether its fish or cows  ;D

Thank you for the link, I shall investigate.

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 05, 2018, 09:50:46 PM
The nymphoides hydrophylla'Taiwan' that I bought relatively recently is growing well (after seeing it in @TopCookie 's tank photos). Not quite as well as the "30cm in a month" that was promised on the label. Thank goodness, but it did have me worried at the beginning that it was managing to grow 1cm a day. I got about 9 clumps / plants from the single pot of tissue culture. So at the moment it is looking like the best value aquatic plant I've ever bought!

And I really like the contrast of the light green against my dark olive / rust coloured crypts.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 05, 2018, 11:23:21 PM
It is a good one, eh...  Grows fast enough to be helpful in terms of nutrient uptake but not so fast as to be invasive or some kinda nuisance...  and I definitely agree, they do look kinda funky, in a good way...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 06, 2018, 08:15:26 AM
Those tissue culture pots give a lot of bang for buck (is that the right phrase??) and no risk of sneaky snails!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 06, 2018, 08:54:17 AM
I think it would be too big for the betta's tank, unfortunately. I need something a bit taller in there, but something that would not outgrow a 26 litre tank. Since I already have some in the big tank I think I'll try planting a piece of water sprite.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 06, 2018, 04:46:38 PM
I got them because I like the look of them and they are undemanding. I'm hoping they don't take too many nutrients from my tank.  :o
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 06, 2018, 11:16:57 PM
When I say about the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' being helpful with the uptake of "nutrients", I really mean in terms of any excess ammonia and nitrates etc...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 06, 2018, 11:38:45 PM
I know.  ;) I struggle with insufficient nitrates in my tank for all the plants I have.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 07, 2018, 12:03:58 AM
Ditto that...!!!  Although in my case, I'm thinking that Amazon Frogbit is perhaps the biggest nitrate munching culprit...   :vcross:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 07, 2018, 09:34:58 AM
Platies do eat a lot of veg matter and unfortunately veg matter = lots of poo whether its fish or cows  ;D

Thank you for the link, I shall investigate.

That confirms it - he'll have to go before the Espei arrive... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 07, 2018, 06:59:37 PM
Platies do eat a lot of veg matter and unfortunately veg matter = lots of poo whether its fish or cows  ;D
That confirms it - he'll have to go before the Espei arrive...
I doubt if he'd produce more than the nerite snail, though, who is a herbivore.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 07, 2018, 10:44:42 PM
lolol, Mr Pointless he is...!!!  Has found his favourite spot, somewhere out of view but on the bogwood, and I almost never see him...!!!   :vcross:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 08, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
Big water change today (I believe @Matt 's advice to me on this subject to be spot on) and more general maintenance, including the removal of the last of the largest Echinodorus leaves plus some H.Costata that looked miserable and had hair algae on there...  Also removed more Amazon Frogbit, and lastly several nibbled N.H.Taiwan leaves, which the Amanos eat when they're hungry (I am beginning to think this might be a good barometer for how well fed the tank is, at least in terms of under feeding, which is when the shrimp then eat the N.H.Taiwan)...  Tank looking brighter all round now...

After the large'ish WC today, I have now begun to fertilise with the TNC Complete @ the TNC recommended levels and have cut down from 3ml per day to 2ml per day...  Will stick with this for at least two weeks, then may well even reduce a fraction further...  I now realise that I do need to fertilise more than I used to, but part of me wonders if the recommended dose is perhaps actually still a bit higher than needed by some small margin...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 08, 2018, 11:23:33 PM
You may be right regarding the dosing levels. Especially in your tank with a dirted substrate which will be keeping all the root feeding plants happy, and so you just need to satisfy the others.  :cheers:

I've actually been working up a theory around all this stuff recently and doing a lot of research to confirm my thinking so I'm glad it's working for you. Im hoping to be able to write up my theories soon for you all to peruse...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 09, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Looking forward to reading that @Matt ...  :)

With my story, I get the impression that with the "dirt" layer in my set up (John Innes #3) may hold nutrients on different levels...  By that I mean that there was the initial period when all plants were blissfully happy & tickety boo for the first couple of months or so and this makes me think that a proportion of the nutrients were readily and easily available...  I can't imagine that all the soil's nutrients are exhausted already as it's far too soon for that imho, so leading me to thinking that there must be plenty more left but that's less readily available, or you might consider as "slow release" when compared to that initial gush of easy to access nutrients... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 09, 2018, 10:44:22 PM
I am also looking forward to @Matts take on this. I think the importance of the initial planting substrate is crucial to to successful growth. I also think that the substrate you choose in the long term and it’s ability to ‘lock in’ dosed nutrients to prolong growth is also important.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 09, 2018, 10:51:59 PM
Ditto on Matt's theory.

I think my tank is a bit different in that my substrate starts with low nutrients, but holds onto them. So I should start with dosing, but the need to do so reduces as the substrate 'grabs onto' more nutrients. I have mostly sieved Seachem Eco complete. (ie the smaller, <2mm granules).
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 11, 2018, 03:01:25 PM
Less "lush" looking at the mo, but this is because of the hard pruning to get on top of the hair algae etc... 

(https://imagez.to/i/8FF8rr0l.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 11, 2018, 07:12:27 PM
More maintenance today...  Completely removed Hottonia Palustris plant, which was very weak and I'd say was in a bad way due to the malnourishment but beyond saving since boosting the fertilisers...  Trimmed off a few more weak H.Costata leaves plus one or two that were looking under hair algae attack... 

Reluctantly going to try the TNC Carbon again in the hope that it will do two things:  supplement the additional fertilisers and help combat the hair algae - I can't just keep cutting off any leaves affected by the algae as the tank will finish up bare and barren...  Only added 0.5ml and will do 0.5ml per day for a trial period, keeping a major eye on the Amano shrimp...!!!

Hope the health of the plants turns around soon as there's no doubt that this is a stressful time with the tank - or the plants to be more specific... 

The little Ramshorn hitch-hiker snail numbers are up and I suspect this is down to the plants which haven't survived well, giving them a plentiful supply of dead/rotting plant matter...  They're so small that I'd bet it wouldn't take much in the way of such plant matter to represent an open buffet to the little tinkers...!!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 11, 2018, 07:27:11 PM
I hope that the pruning, maintenance and regime kick start your plants on to a new growth spurt.
Your tank is still looking good though.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 12, 2018, 08:32:32 AM
Thanks Donna...    :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 15, 2018, 09:52:34 AM
It's now a few days in after going back to trying the TNC Carbon in the tank...  I'm only dosing @ 0.5ml per day (may be a tad more, but definitely less than 1ml) but somehow the tank "looks" happier... 

My primary concern was always with the Amano shrimp, as they really did not like the liquid carbon when tried briefly once before - but that was at 1ml per day plus was totally new to them...  This time though, they appear unaffected so far, which is a fantastic bonus and means that I can continue, maybe even increase the dose at some point...  Really hoping that the carbon will help in the fight against the hair algae...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 24, 2018, 03:41:53 PM
New update: 

Majority of the plants looking healthier, but it has to be said that it's not by much when all things considered... 

Current fertiliser dosing is TNC Complete @ recommended level, but part dosed daily rather than full dosed weekly...  Have also progressively built up the TNC Carbon to 2ml per day, which is a two thirds daily dose level... 

In the meantime, the one thing that I had managed to avoid so far looks to have struck: the dreaded BBA...!!!  There's little sign of the hair algae abating either... 

So, the notion of super dosing the plants to get them growing faster and out-competing the algae is currently looking like not only being a fail, but also that all the added nutrients appear to have encouraged BBA...!!!


I'm at my wits end now and growing increasingly fed up with the whole thing to be honest... 

On the plus side, at least all of the tank occupants are doing well and still not a single fish fatality to date...  All the shrimp seem to now be coping with the carbon, after building it up slowly, and the snail collection also seems un-phased by it too...  But this issue of constant battling with one issue or another is getting tired real fast now...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 26, 2018, 08:12:42 AM
Are you doing big water changes each week to reset the nutrient levels? Sorry, I can't remember if I've asked you this before...

Keen to get this fixed for you!  Also whats the BBA growing on? Can it be removed and boiled?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 26, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Do you know what Matt, I think you might have already once given the advice that I should have paid closer attention to:  when you said about going back to what I used to do...  (I think it was you...  and others agreed too)

I've been trying to swat up as much as possible on the whole algae issue and am starting to think that I've gone about trying to deal with it with over enthusiastic haste, leading to actually going further off track instead of getting back on track... 

I'm sure this is all about balance...  balance between photoperiod and nutrients...  What I suspect is that I have been giving the tank too much light...  I did increase the photoperiod to 8 hours at one point, while over dosing with fertiliser but perhaps significantly not adding carbon at that point - rightly or wrongly, I think the plants simply weren't "ready" for all this extra stuff, especially without the carbon, and this is likely to be the root cause (pardon the pun there)... 

Because the bulk of the plants I have fall into the "easy" or "medium" category, I'd wager that the 8 hours of tank lights combined with being in a fairly bright room has just been plain too much and this is where that original advice of going back to what I used to do is starting to look golden now...  My current plan is to reduce the nutrients back to around half recommended daily dose, keep up with a small amount of carbon and finally work those tank lights back down to the six hours per day that I used to do when the tank looked healthier...  In the meantime, I am going to start having a go at the black algae with some hydrogen peroxide... 

The algae looks like miniature BBA almost, either because it is just starting and isn't out of control yet, or possibly because it's not actually BBA at all, just looks somewhat like it...?  It appears on the slow growing Bucephalandra and Anubias, plus on some Echinodorus leaves - but not on the bogwood, which is somewhat odd...?

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 26, 2018, 12:39:21 PM
That all sounds quite logical to me  ;)

Like you say balance is important. If one factor is limiting growth it is easy for others to be in excess. Light an nutrients especially are easy for us to increase. CO2 less so.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 29, 2018, 03:23:23 PM
Now down to 6h 15m of tank lighting and will drop to 6 hours straight in a couple of days...  Also reduced the nutrients to 1ml per day each of TNC Complete and Carbon...  I'm hoping that dropping the carbon completely will be viable soon too... 

Anyways, off that drama for a moment now...  Ended up being very late to bed last night, sat up chatting with a friend that's visiting Cookie Towers long into the night...  I was telling him about how I never see the Nerite snail since putting him in, or at best the occasional brief glance, kinda thing...  Interestingly though, there is now about 8mm to 10mm of that algae where the sand and tank glass meet that has vanished and it looks to coincide with the addition of the Nerite snail, albeit a few days or so since adding him, and it looks like he is doing exactly what I hoped he would - but never that you can see him doing it, perhaps doing it over night etc...  So, while talking about this and it being around 3:30am at the time, we went to have a look to see if he does come out of hiding in the dark, and low & behold, there he was cruising around the sand area of the substrate...!!!  That's the first time since popping him in the tank that I've ever seen him actually on the substrate...!!!  Little blighter is fast though...!!!  In a race between him and a Rabbit snail, my money would have to go on the Nerite...  lolol...   ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on May 29, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Interesting.
Not sure if time of year has anything to do with this too but my nerite snail has become nocturnal in recent weeks ie sleeping throughout the day, then waking up around the time the tank light goes off. My recollection is that the situation was the same last summer but, in the darker and cooler months, he tends to be out and about during the day.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 12:15:10 AM
Just looked in the tank about 5 mins ago...  he's out on another substrate mission...!!!

Still can't get over how fast he is, especially compared to the Hopalong Cassidy motion of the Rabbits & Faunus snails...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 30, 2018, 09:36:46 AM
Apple snails are even faster  :) Such a shame the import of these was banned by the EU.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 12:05:09 PM
Water test today and hoping for at least some nitrates, on the grounds that my current problem set appears to revolve around nitrogen deficiency (probably potassium too?)...  The plan to switch back to the macro containing TNC Complete is under the microscope here... 

Results:  pH 7.5   ammonia - 0     nitrite - 0     nitrates - 5

So, it would appear that the TNC Complete has been helping with the nitrogen deficiency at least some - probably also with the possible potassium deficiency... 

Various plants, stem plants in particular, now growing like they're on steroids, since starting to add the TNC Carbon - this leads me to thinking that the lesson here for my set up is clearly that if you're gonna add a ton of fertilisers, then they need balancing out with carbon in order to be effective... 

The overall problem set in the tank has distinctly shifted now...  Stem plants looking vibrant and healthy and the unidentified filamentous algae has eased off too...  However, I have the newer problem of this miniature BBA looking stuff, and it has spread through the tank fairly quickly...  I have tried spraying (under water) a couple of experimental areas with hydrogen peroxide, but there's no reaction to this, whereas I would have expected BBA to start bubbling some...  Either way, the algae is definitely black, it just doesn't quite look like BBA (yet?) or behave like BBA when treated with the HP...  Perhaps it's something else maybe...? 

Going forward, the aim now is to try and get back to that low tech minimalist intervention approach by a shortened photoperiod and this new thinking on which fertiliser to use etc...  Aim to strike the right balance with that short photoperiod and low but consistent levels of fertilisers and hopefully cut the liquid carbon out completely... 

Definitely feeling a little more positive about it all today, although the battle lines are re-drawn with this new black stuff now... 

Still, all the animal occupants are looking super healthy and happy etc and there's even the (don't laugh  ;D ) excitement of finally seeing the Black Helmet Nerite snail out & about...  Some other positive news is that several of my female Amano shrimp are berried at the moment - for the first time...  :D   I do know that they won't have surviving bairns of course, but am curious as to what will actually happen with those eggs...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 30, 2018, 12:12:35 PM
When I had amanos, the eggs changed colour, though I've forgotten if it was from white to olive green or the other way round. I never knew what happened to the eggs because one day the females would be carrying the later colour eggs, then next day eggs of the just laid colour.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
Do you know if the eggs actually hatch at all Sue...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on May 30, 2018, 12:24:19 PM
I have no idea what actually happened in my tank, just that the eggs changed colour back to the newly laid colour so either the first eggs hatched and the shrimp larvae were promptly eaten or died, or she just dropped the eggs, which were then eaten. Then she produced more eggs.
I know that amano eggs hatch into a tiny planktonic larval stage unlike other shrimps, such as cherries, which hatch into miniature adult shrimp.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 30, 2018, 12:36:01 PM
I have seen my female Amano's carrying eggs but I've never seen what happens to them. I'm just presuming they get 'snapped' up by the fish.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
Probably one of those little mysteries that nobody ever actually witnesses...  especially if that plankton like stage is not easily visible to the naked eye...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 03:27:39 PM
Doesn't tell the full story, but interesting all the same: 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qZpawgRi-A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qZpawgRi-A</a>
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on May 30, 2018, 07:17:49 PM
I have witnessed an amano shrimp releasing eggs in one of my South American tanks previously. The penguin tetras gathered around and ate all the eggs as they were released. Well, at least the eggs didn't go to waste.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 30, 2018, 09:03:46 PM
That's fantastic...  Hope I get to see something like that...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 30, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
One of the causes for BBA is fluctuating co2. So I wonder if adding the TNC carbon in smaller twice daily doses (I think you're adding daily doses?) would help?

When I was injecting CO2, I initially turned it off at night because I was worried what the build up of CO2 overnight would do to the fish. However, that artificial fluctuation of CO2 (dropping at night instead if a slight increase) was enough to trigger BBA.  When I started leaving the co2 on constantly, the BBA completely disappeared without any further intervention.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 31, 2018, 09:45:44 AM
That's a very good point Helen, and reassuring that under the right circumstances BBA can just go by itself etc...  Although, I am trying to slowly work it back out of the routine completely now and get back towards that whole "low tech" approach as much as possible...  I should try and get a couple of photos and see what you guys think, because I'm not 100% certain that it is BBA...  One of the Amano shrimp was busy pecking away at it yesterday, albeit on the Anubias which happens to be one of the two trial areas where I sprayed with hydrogen peroxide...  Not sure how relevant that might be in this case as there was no visible reaction to being sprayed with the HP, no fizzing nor any change of colour etc...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on May 31, 2018, 05:17:10 PM
Where is the algae in relation to where you add the TNC carbon, filter outlet and water level? I think you said it was throughout the tank which is why i wondered about co2 / carbon.

I've noticed a dark / black algae growing around the edges of some of my anubias. Although I'm not currently dosing my tank with anything, I'm interested to see how you solve this as it could be the same stuff.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on May 31, 2018, 08:09:05 PM
Does it appear hard of soft?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on May 31, 2018, 11:01:33 PM
Hard to say on the hard/soft front, but the Amano picking at some seemed like it wasn't easy to pluck off as there was some jerk in the leaf with each plucking motion... 

The black stuff is mostly around the edges of many plant leaves in the tank, but not on wood...  I drop the ferts and carbon directly in the path of the outflow from the small Eheim "Pickup 45" internal filter, so that it gets mixed in right from the off... 

As of today, I'm back down to a straight six hours of tank lights and will soon stop the carbon completely again...  probably drop down from the current 1ml per day to 0.5ml per day just for a few more days, then stop... 

Interestingly, the Hygrophila Costata is pretty much done for and whilst it has grown new leaves lately, the last remaining plants just look very poor now and maybe they're just not suited to my tank...  Ironically, they're supposed to be very easy to grow...  I think the plan now is going to be to remove all remaining H.Costata and replace with some new plants... 

Then, I have Pogostemon Helferi (http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/4499/4499) which should be trikier to grow, and it's growing like bonkers...!!!  It's a funny old game this planted tank malarkey, eh...

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on May 31, 2018, 11:21:41 PM
Don’t know if the Hygrophilia is one of them, but I understand some plants don’t fare well when using liquid carbon. From what I’ve read in the past it seems that using low lighting levels with liquid carbon and a comprehensive fertiliser is the way to go. It’s also supposed to be effective at keeping algae at bay. That said it doesn’t seem to be the case based on your current BBA infestation.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 01, 2018, 06:18:44 AM
One thing that could be at play here is water hardness...

Have you seen:?
https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-tank-plant-advice/plant-suitability-by-water-hardness/ (https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-tank-plant-advice/plant-suitability-by-water-hardness/)

How do those two plants fit with your water parameters?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 01, 2018, 09:27:19 AM
The problems with the H.Costata began before starting to add the liquid carbon...  Problem here is that they were probably already too far gone to be saved really...  As far as I'm aware, I don't think they are intolerant of liquid carbon though...? 

On the issue of water hardness, I'm having trouble finding that information Matt, as the Tropica site doesn't refer to it in their info pages...  Same with Aquarium Gardens...  Then Pro-Shrimp do mention it, but don't sell all the plants I have - most notably the H.Costata
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 01, 2018, 09:41:44 AM
Just late last night ordered up a bunch of new plants...  Part of me is loathe to put more plants in the tank while there is this algae issue, although it is hopefully coming under control with changes made now...  But then they do say that more plants in your tank will help to combat algae... 

Anyways, got the following ordered:

Another Echinodorus Amazonicus (love this smaller sized Amazon Sword), another Echinodorus Red Diamond, an Echinodorus Aquartica (new to me), an Alternanthera reineckii 'Pink' (another new one to me) and finally a Ludwigia sp. Mini Super Red... 

The Ludwigia is yet another new one to me, but I do have a couple of other red type Ludwigia plants; Palustris and Repens Rubin...  I did have two Repens Rubin, one crashed & died while the other survived and now flourishes, so the "Mini Super Red" is something of an experiment really... 

Also ordered in a potassium test kit...  Already have kits for Nitrogen and Phosphorus and consequently know my NPK is out of balance, low on N & high on P, but I don't know where my K levels are at and a Potassium deficiency does look like a possible candidate for the stalled growth in the tank which started all of this current problem set...  Will be interesting to find out how those Potassium levels are and complete that NPK picture...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 01, 2018, 09:50:11 AM
The amano shrimps might not have been trying to eat the algae, they may have been eating micro-organisms that grow in the biofilm and in the algae.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 01, 2018, 03:58:32 PM
That thread references this site Pierre:

en.aqua-fish.net (http://en.aqua-fish.net)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 01, 2018, 09:13:39 PM
Just a heads up, Amazon swords can be very nutrient hungry. Mine didn't survive in my tank when I wasn't dosing additional nitrates.

Also, I discovered that fast growing stem plants need calcium (the 'crispier' the stalks seems to be the more calcium). So they can appear to reduce the hardness of the water when they use up the calcium. I think calcium is measured within general hardness, though @Sue  will confirm (it is one of those things I always struggle to remember correctly)

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 02, 2018, 12:11:53 AM
Is Kh the calcium hardness bit with Gh being the general hardness (includes all minerals) ? I may be wrong !!!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 02, 2018, 12:22:06 AM
Thanks for the various replies guys... 

@Sue  you could well be right Sue as the algae hasn't really gone down much, although the way the leaf was being tugged suggests that he/she was trying... 

@Matt  Just tried that site with searches for Hygrophila Costata and the Pogostemon Helferi, but, alas, the searches came back empty handed Matt...  Good shout though, all the same... 

@Helen  my end goal is to keep up with the TNC Complete and/or the newly purchased "theaquascaper" Complete, both of which have micros & macros...  The one addition I'm keen to work back out of the routine is the liquid carbon...  As things stand, I have a few varieties of Echinodorus in the tank already and they all grow quite well - just this issue of firstly what might be staghorn or green hair algae which has largely subsided to this smaller black algae...  But in terms of actual growth, they do quite well which is the principle reason for choosing more Echinodorus to replace the doomed H.Costata and just build the plant numbers up a bit more in general...  I will aim to stick with the TNC Complete @ 1ml per day, which equates to half recommended dose, but if there are any signs of further malnutrition then I'll boost back up to the 2ml per day as recommended...  Combined with that subsoil though, I would expect that the half dose should work at least adequately well...

Pointers on the immediate future start with this addition of more plants (and the removal of the last H.Costata - which I'll be glad to see the back of!), plus the testing for potassium levels, which I shall supplement if levels are low...  May well look at nitrogen supplementation too, especially with the nil nitrites and just 5 nitrates at the moment...  Phosphorus is 2ppm out of the tap, so that definitely won't need supplementing, but I do wonder that if I can strike a better NPK blalance, then that should hopefull go a long way to keeping the plants happy and that in turn should help with the algae wars...  That's the theory at least...  :)

EDIT:  I do have a KH & GH test kit...  Might be worth looking at those figures again Dave (and Helen)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 02, 2018, 12:28:33 AM
lolol, just a little observation...  I only started this hobby in January this year, late January at that...!!!  Blimey, the learning curve is steep, eh...!!!  I can't get over some of the chats going on now...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 02, 2018, 05:25:32 AM
Take care 're potassium levels Pierre as you are also changing fertiliser so you may find that any deficiency gets covered going forwards. I would give the tank at least 2 weeks on the new fertiliser before drawing any conclusions...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 02, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
GH is general hardness, the same thing that water companies give as 'hardness'.
GH is a measure of all the divalent metal ions in the water. In practice, these are mainly calcium with some magnesium and trace amounts of other metal ions eg copper, iron II, manganese, zinc etc - you'll find a lot of these trace metals in plant fertilisers.
Sodium and potassium are not measured by GH because they are monovalent metals. Iron III is trivalent, as is aluminium, so they are not measured by GH either.

Hardness can be expressed in several different units.
Degrees include Clark, French and German, though only German is used in fishkeeping and is often called dH. In fish profiles, degrees, dH or even odH are all German degrees.
The other units can cause confusion. These are mg/l calcium (Ca), mg/l calcium oxide (CaO) and mg/l calcium carbonate (CaCO3). These sound as though they are the amount of the specific chemical in the water but they are not. They are the hardness expressed as what the number would be if all the hardness was just calcium, or all just calcium oxide or all just calcium carbonate. It's just a convenient way of comparing 2 samples of water without saying 'this sample contains x caclium, y magnesium, z copper while that sample contains a calcium, b magnesium, c copper' They use one measurement that includes everything, but they call it all calcium or all calcium oxide or all calcium carbonate.
The amounts of each individual metal are given in water companies' water quality tables.
Ppm is the final unit and this is the same as mg/l calcium carbonate. This is the other unit used in fish keeping.



KH is the amount of buffer* in the water. In practical terms this is carbonate and bicarbonate. KH is rarely given on UK water companies' websites, but if one does give it they call it alkalinity because of the method used to measure it.
As for GH, there are 2 units for KH in fish keeping - dH and ppm. Where water companies do give KH (alkalinity), they most likely use the unit mg/l calcium carbonate. As for GH this is not the amount of calcium carbonate in the water but the figure it would be if all the carbonate and bicarbonate was calcium carbonate. In reality, it will be a mixture of calcium, magnesium and trace metal carbonates and bicarbonates.

* A buffer is simply a chemical dissolved in water which stops the pH changing.




The source of this information is my younger son who worked as an analyst for a water testing company a few years ago.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 02, 2018, 10:31:13 AM
@Matt  good point and one that has been noted - thanks...  Haven't tried the aquascaper stuff as yet and didn't buy any potassium supplement yet either, just the test kit for now...  :)

@Sue  we should have your lad on the forum Sue...  sounds like he really knows his stuff  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 02, 2018, 10:36:55 AM
One footnote to add for anybody that is following the story of what's happening with this tank:  I initially scooped out a whole lot of the floating Amazon Frogbit, on the grounds that they're acknowledged as being nitrogen greedy and having such low nitrogen levels in the tank...  I've now reversed that and am letting it re-populate, which is because I'm now thinking that the shade it provides is a greater advantage when it comes to algae than the downside of it being nitrogen greedy... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 04, 2018, 10:46:02 PM
Might be that I am too quick with updates, not allowing sufficient time to be more accurate, but after working the tank lights back down to six hours exactly and reducing the fertilisers & carbon, wouldn't you know it but the algae that looks like BBA seems to be easing off and the unidentified filamentous algae seems to have recovered after being in recession whilst the black stuff was more prominent...  I'm actually tempted to consider turning the timer for the lights down even further at the mo, but need to leave well alone for now and let the current batch of changes have some time to work (or fail, possibly?)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 06, 2018, 04:03:16 PM
It's just the darndest thing, but this BBA breakout is definitely backing right off now...!!! 

Lord knows exactly what has caused the turn around but the two most likely candidates are the reduced lighting period and/or the reduced fertilisers/carbon...  Highly likely to be a combination of the two I would imagine...?

Fish keeping...  huh, the more you learn, the less you know...!!!   :isay:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 06, 2018, 04:30:40 PM
Because one of the causes of a BBA outbreak is fluctuating CO2 levels, I would suggest that the reduction in carbon means that the co2 levels are more stable.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 06, 2018, 04:59:22 PM
I think your also achieving that troublesome 'balance' of co2 lighting and ferts... glad to hear things are on the up!  :fishy1:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 06, 2018, 10:39:30 PM
Big maintenance day tomorrow and will be planting the new additions - plus rooting out the last of the doomed H.Costata... 

Still pondering this question of lighting in the tank, particularly with the specific notion of where natural light fits in with, or set against, the tank lights...  I'm so tempted to turn the lights down a fraction more even, maybe knock another quarter hour off perhaps...  Then logic tells me to leave well alone while the BBA is receding... 

Difficult not to get drawn into the conclusion that too much light is behind the BBA, as I'm sure it's probably not that straightforward, but I'd be tempted to advise anybody suffering from BBA to reduce their photoperiod significantly after this experience... 

Interesting take on the carbon aspect @Helen   I can say that I think following Adam's advice (the planted tank guy @ Wharf) to the letter meant that I only boosted the fertilisers without adding any carbon and this didn't seem to do a lot of good until I did start adding carbon and thus bringing that entire notion of balance under the microscope...  It strikes me now that it is unwise to add fertilisers in large amounts without adding carbon to complete that nutrition picture as a whole...

For the record, here's what I did in terms of trying to follow that advice and amounts of fertilisers added etc: 

24th April  10ml TNC Complete added, with a view to dosing twice a week at two thirds of the recommended weekly dose each time...  No carbon added...

Then following chats on the forum here, switched to 3ml TNC Complete daily from 26th April...  Still no carbon added...

3ml TNC Complete added daily, without carbon up to and including 7th May...

8th May dropped TNC Complete to 2ml per day...  Still no carbon yet... 

11th May started adding 0.5ml TNC Carbon along with the 2ml TNC Complete...

17th May boosted Carbon to 1ml per day and still on 2ml per day Complete...

22nd May boosted Carbon to 2ml per day and still on 2ml Complete...

28th May dropped both Carbon & Complete to 1ml per day... 

Still on the 1ml each of TNC Carbon and TNC Complete now and tank has that "lushness" about it again at the moment...  Will maintain these levels for a while now and see how things progress... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 07, 2018, 06:26:46 PM
Big old water change today and loadsa plant work; including trimming down and re-planting stem plants, ripping out the last of H.Costsata (I'm gonna be so chuffed when I never have to type or read "H.Costata" ever again...!!!), also ripping out the "Taiwan" thingy after being so heavily eaten by the Amano shrimps - pity, coz I like the plant, then planting a bunch of new plants, cleaning tank glass, removing one great big chunk of bogwood and a whole lot of general cleaning & tidying up etc...  Another whole entire afternoon, basically... 

Tank looks super different now - photos to follow once some decent clarity has returned...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 07, 2018, 08:40:42 PM
Way to go clearing up and settling down, but here it is, minus one large bogwood chunk...

(https://imagez.to/i/l2pU5vsW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 07, 2018, 08:42:38 PM
Looks great.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 07, 2018, 09:31:29 PM
Thanks Donna...  :)    can't help feeling that there's a bit of a "hole" where the now removed chunk of bogwood was...  Might be a great excuse to get over to Wharf and find summat new - just smaller than the piece that came out...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 07, 2018, 09:34:54 PM
Looks lovely.

What about some skinny bogwood sticks? As @Matt suggested in another post? You could then let the plants fill in the gaps you think are there.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 07, 2018, 11:00:43 PM
Lovely.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 07, 2018, 11:08:12 PM
How about putting the bogwood back in over on the left hand side to mirror the right?

This would be termed a u shaped or concave layout with height on either side and less height in the middle.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 07, 2018, 11:20:38 PM
Looking good. Did you remove the Lily like plant that was in the centre of your original layout (can’t remember the name).
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 07, 2018, 11:26:06 PM
Do you know, it's actually a fab piece of wood, with a multi-entrance cave in there...  Really is a beauty...!!!  Trouble is, it has a large "footprint" and at the moment, I'd rather have more plants to be honest...  But, I wouldn't mind a smaller piece, or some branchy type wood, maybe even a solitary piece of stone, something with a bit of height but a small'ish footprint...  Will drive over to Wharf tomorrow and see if I can find that special little nugget...  :)   Depending on time, may even go that bit further and visit Pro-Shrimp in Mansfield there, a favourite on-line store for me...

@Helen ...  talk to me about the Kuhli Loaches again lass...  My population of diddy little pest snails is nice and healthy at the mo, but they are so small that it's not a major issue in many ways, yet the notion that the Kuhli Loaches might pick 'em off isn't half appealing...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 07, 2018, 11:28:30 PM
@daveyng  yes sir, I did indeed, the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan'...  Love the plant actually, but the problem is that my Amano shrimp now have it logged as fresh salad and eat it at least as fast as it grows, so was looking increasingly miserable as a result...   :vcross:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 07, 2018, 11:52:00 PM
I think that was "the "Taiwan" thingy" Pierre mentioned.

I bought one for my tank after seiing it i TopCookie's.  ;D

I have never seen mu kuhli loaches eat a snail. But I have more empty snail shells in my tank than live ones. And after I removed a bunch of substrate, I watched one of my kuhlis hunt some thing that was too small for me to see, on the disturbed substrate.

Since I have put the sand section in, that seems to be where the greatest number of shells are (I'm not sure if this is just because I can see them more easily). But that is definitely one of, if not the kuhlis' favourite place.

They are nocturnal, so are often not considered great community fish, because they can be shy. They are scale less fish, so can be more sensitive to disease and less easy to treat. But, the kuhlis in my tank survived the period of neglect that my tank went through when wi had babies.

They have the cutest little faces.

They do best in planted tanks and like caves. They should be in a group of at least 6. IMine actually seem to prefer the gnarly bits of bogwood i have - presumably because the crevices in them are too small for all other fish.

I see mine usually only at feeding time or lights out. But I do see them a lot more now I have most of the substrate under leaf cover. They like to hang out around the edges of the sand area where there are lots of caves and overhanging bolbitus and crypts.

They are extremely fast. If ones gets spooked, I don't normally see it go, just the little cloud it leaves behind. I hope I never have reason to try and catch a healthy one. I think I'd have to dismantle my tank.

I feed mine sinking pellets. I now crush them and they seem to really enjoy (!) 'hunting' for the grains. They don't seem in the slightest bit worried by the more boisterous fiveband barbs, or even Bertie the bn plec who is known to throw his weight around.

They go absolutely mad for blood worms and come out to feed quicker when I drop the delicacy in the tank.

One thing is that I don't have shrimp. So I don't know how they'd react. I have read reports. But... I'd be surprised if they attacked the shrimp because they do tend to stick with smaller snails. I noticed a couple snails have managed to get bigger than what I consider kuhli snack size. So I might have to feed them to the birds in my garden!

Anything else you want to know?

Ps there are lots of reasons to get kuhlis apart from them seeming to eat snails.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 08, 2018, 11:56:56 AM
Thanks @Helen  :) 

I have had something of an on/off obsession with Kuhli Loaches from the start...  I'll look into them, decide they're not for me and then over time they always seem to come back into my thinking only for the cycle to start again...  I do love how they look, with that snake like appearance, but realistically I think my pH is a tad on the high side for them and various other minor aspects always seems to stop me taking the plunge...  You can guarantee that the appeal of them will be back at some point though, always does...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Tank a bit clearer now, from the day after all the work that was done... 

(https://imagez.to/i/YHNqh915.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 09, 2018, 01:36:41 PM
It looks stunning.  8)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 04:06:12 PM
Thanks @fcmf  :)

Just back from Wharf Aquatics, having picked up a couple of smaller pieces of bogwood to fill that "hole" where the larger piece was... 

Whilst there, I also picked up some new fish after deliberating long and hard about what else can go in the tank...  I looked closely at a few species, from Gourami, Rainbowfish, other Tetras, Espei Raspberries and even the Kuhli Loaches...  but at the end of the day, and for a couple of solid reasons, I have gone with five little Oto Cats...  :) 

Would have loved a snail muncher, but there are no guarantees of either effectiveness or peacefulness, and I needed to keep fish size low plus the Otos will hopefully contribute to clean up crew duties etc...  Always fancied Otos from the start, but it would have been too soon for them much before now...  Fingers crossed they survive that initial introduction to the tank and start feeding soon...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 09, 2018, 04:35:58 PM
Do you have any algae wafers to get them strated on?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 04:41:55 PM
I do Matt, the Hikari ones, both the mini and the regular sizes...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 09, 2018, 04:42:04 PM
A lot of people also have success with sushi nori if you can cope with the mess it makes.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
I dunno that stuff Sue, will check it out though...  :) 

Here they are, acclimating as we speak: 

(https://imagez.to/i/DZ15VTpn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 09, 2018, 05:43:11 PM
Awwwwww, so cute!   :fishy1:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 09, 2018, 09:07:42 PM
Congratulations on your new arrivals.  :cheers:
I have a soft spot for otos, and enjoy watching mine feed on the glass.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 11:32:45 PM
After reading so many stories about how fickle they are when first introduced, I'm anxious on an entirely new level right now, lol, but fingers crossed they'll all be ok...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 09, 2018, 11:42:47 PM
Darn- my current device won't let me see the pic but I'll check on another device in the morning (or get up during the night if the suspense gets too much for me). Congrats on your new acquisitions and fingers crossed for them. :fishy1:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 09, 2018, 11:45:42 PM
Lovely looking fish. The should do well in your tank.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 11:54:31 PM
Thanks folks...  I'm smitten with them already, I have to say...  Can't wait for a few days to pass and see them properly settled...  So tempted to go back tomorrow and grab another two or three, after reading that they prefer to be in groups of six or more...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Rustle on June 10, 2018, 06:59:28 AM
Nice looking otto's cookie  :) i have 5 aswell and they are great fun to watch. I was always dubious about getting any due to the stories you read on the net but i have had mine for over 3 months now and would't hesitate buying any again. 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 10, 2018, 09:51:24 AM
I agree with the others, your otos are lovely.

It's when you buy starved, newly arrived in the shop otos that there can be problems. Nice plump otos that have been in the shop a week or so are usually OK.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 10, 2018, 12:39:13 PM
One thing that is interesting and has only just come to light really is that removing one of the two large chunks of bogwood has changed the dynamic in the tank significantly...  Many of the Tetras are now swimming higher up in the water column, the Corys are out & about more and the biggest change is that I can now see the Lemon BN Pleco grazing algae (presumably) from plant leaves - whereas she used to stay almost exclusively on either piece of wood...  I am especially pleased about this as I think she will likely do a better job of algae munching if she ventures off the now lone piece of wood more often, which was of course one of the principle reasons for getting her in the first place... 

Gonna have to try and catch the lone Platy again soon though, as he's bullying the Red Phantom Tetras...  Although, there is a part of me that thinks it might actually be no bad thing in some respects, as they're bickering between themselves far less whilst being hounded by the Platy...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 11, 2018, 12:35:35 PM
Had to go on a mega dash back to Wharf this morning...  snagged an extra three Oto Cats as the original five virtually vanished in the tank...  Found out now which type of Oto they are and they are "Black Otos" aka Otocinclus Leucofrenatus...  Really chuffed with these little tykes...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 12, 2018, 07:01:04 AM
Just looked them up... they are stunners! Like mini plecs. Quite rare too by the sounds of it... but that's warf for you.

I think they get a bit bigger than 'normal' otos i have read up to 6cm thought I can't imagine that's a problem for you.

Lovely fish  :fishy1:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 12, 2018, 08:19:47 AM
I had to look them up too - beautiful fish.
I also had to look at the Wharf Aquatics site....then check how far it is from me....
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 12, 2018, 08:51:47 AM
I just looked them up too. PlanetCatfish calls them Hisonotus leucofrenatus with the common name Niger oto https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=1386  I have also found it as Ototcinclus niger. Presumably it's one of those species that has been reclassified into another genus.
Aha!  look here (http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/a4207c0b77c8f3f46821304208b3c4a8/synonym/5206b598b6be735a88653553b44c5ff2)
Shops do have a tendency to use older names.


Lovely little fish, whatever they are called  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 12, 2018, 10:48:40 AM
They are little cuties for sure, although they're hard to spot in the tank and are much more camouflaged than the usual Otos you see, with their whiter under sides...  On the plus side, that just makes it more of a bonus when you do spot them...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 12, 2018, 11:30:14 AM
Just playing with google:-

I already knew that 'leuco' meant white or lacking in colour (eg leucocyte = white blood cell)
Frenulum - a bristle or group of bristles on the front edge of butterfly wings.

So does leucofrenatus refer to the white spots on the edge of the fish's pectoral fins?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 12, 2018, 11:35:07 AM
It definitely could well do and would be fitting etc...  :)

Just been trying to spot them in the tank, which is hard when the tank lights are off as they are at the moment...  One of them though is busy at work on one of the Bucephalandra plants...  Really excited at the prospects of them helping with algae - although it goes without saying that this is not the only reason I got them... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 15, 2018, 12:46:40 AM
Newest pic, after all the work gone into making the plants take off again: 

(https://imagez.to/i/UcnoV8VF.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Rustle on June 15, 2018, 05:06:12 AM
Great looking tank cookie' can i ask what the tall red plant on the right is please, is it be Rotala Roundifolia ?

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 15, 2018, 07:28:11 AM
Spectacular.  8)

Can I also see a flowering bucephalandra? Lovely.  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 15, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
Thanks guys...  In all honesty though, it has been something of a saga getting the plants growing well again but it's getting there again now...  You might remember that amongst some recent additions was a Bacopa Caroliniana that is around one third of the way in from the left there, was planted in April and is virtually at the tank surface now, one stem had to be trimmed & replanted because it did get there, lol...  All of the H.Costata has gone, because it died basically, and I had to give up on the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' because the Amanos just ate it constantly in the end...  Happy with how it's looking now and may still add even more plants soon... 

@Rustle  that red dude in the RH front corner gets asked about a few times and is actually one of the plants that stalled for a while...  growing well again now though, thankfully...  It is a Ludwigia Palustris (http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Ludwigiapalustris(035B)/4453) :)

@Littlefish  yeah, towards the left there...  Great little plants...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 18, 2018, 10:35:15 PM
The new living room blinds were done on Friday, after a lengthy wait...  Really chuffed as it has made a considerable difference to how much natural light enters the tank - the one main last bastion of potential algae causes...!!!  Correspondingly, I have now cut out the liquid carbon too, with the new daily fertiliser regime being simply 1ml of TNC Complete...  Fingers crossed things will remain on a nice even keel and the algae will ease off even further in the coming weeks...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 18, 2018, 10:41:15 PM
It's looking really good. Well done on bringing it to life again. :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 19, 2018, 10:25:35 AM
Great looking tank. Planting looking  good. Is that Sagittaria in the foreground behind the Rabbit Snails ?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 19, 2018, 11:04:18 AM
Thanks @daveyng ...  :)   It's an Echinodorus Amazonicus...  just a small/young one... 

I do like the "Amazonicus" variety of Echinodorus and wish I'd known more about it when first setting up the tank...  By all accounts it is one of the smallest Amazon Swords and I have a bunch of older ones along the left hand end of the tank - they seem to stay under control nicely, especially compared to the Echinodorus 'Bleherae' Amazon Sword that's just behind the one you mention and a fraction to the left...  I have to routinely remove some enormous leaves from that bugger, but the Amazonicus can be more or less just left alone...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 19, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
Tank looks absolutely amazing and the plants soooo healthy.  8) [Useful feedback too on how you fared with different plants - taking a mental note as, suffice to say, a lot of mine are disintegrating and will need replenished soon.]
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 19, 2018, 10:26:27 PM
At the mo, I'm just anxious that they'll continue to be ok without the liquid carbon, but I'm thinking that with the significantly reduced light and the modest fertiliser routine, now that I am including the macros, everything should hopefully be ok, just perhaps slow down a tad - which I don't mind...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 19, 2018, 10:30:39 PM
One thing is for sure though, lol, the old clean up crew is pretty extensive now, with 12 Amano shrimp, 8 Oto Cats, 1 BN Pleco and a whole bunch of snails in there taking care of business...   :D

Actually got plans for one more Nerite snail, a Red Nerite Snail (Vittina waigiensis) - which are absolutely gorgeous, but really hard to get hold of... 

(https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/4220-thickbox_default/red-nerite-snail-vittina-waigiensis.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 20, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
I'm so excited...!!!    (http://www.cdv-forum.com/Smileys/default/marchmellow.gif)    (http://www.cdv-forum.com/Smileys/default/sign_popcorn.gif)

After waiting patiently for them to become available again, I have just snagged two of the Red Racer Nerite snails (Vittina waigiensis)...  Really pleased right now - daft though, innit, over snails...   :rotfl:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 20, 2018, 02:13:58 PM
Congratulations  :cheers:

And there's nothing wrong with being excited about new arrivals.  ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 20, 2018, 05:50:49 PM
Great news - when getting mine, it was a close contender between the red and orange ones; ultimately I opted for the orange but would definitely get the red as a(n) additional/subsequent snail, subject to availability, of course. Looking forward to seeing pics after it arrives and settles in.

Incidentally, do your tetras leave the shrimp alone? I'd like to get some shrimp but would be concerned about my x-rays harassing them and would probably freak out if I caught one chomping on one.  :yikes:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 20, 2018, 10:08:38 PM
The ‘Red Nerites’ look cool. I also like the ‘Horned Nerites’ Although the tend to be smaller than the standard ones.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 20, 2018, 10:16:24 PM
Certainly will sort a photo once they're here and in the tank...  :)

There are some great looking Horned Nerites...  another tempting CUC member...  :) 

@fcmf  no problems with the Tetras and the Amanos...  There has been the odd occasion where it looked like a fish may have taken a tentative poke at the shrimp, but it's not easy to tell if that's just the shrimp doing that instantaneous reverse gear thing if a fish gets too close, but even that is rare and happens even less now that they're all familiar with each other etc...  If anything, it was the Platies which were the worst for that, those two blue ones that had a brief stay at Cookie Towers before being shipped right on back to Wharf...  The orange/red Platy can be a bugger too, but his sin is to chase the Red Phantom Tetras rather than hassling the shrimps...  If I could catch that little monkey, he'd be shipped off back to Wharf too, but he's a lot more canny than the two blue ones and is an accomplished net dodger...!!!   :rotfl:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 20, 2018, 11:00:48 PM
Is it the Wharf in Nottingham that you keep referring to? You are very lucky to have that as your local fish shop.

Prior to children, we had a trip over the Pennines to visit it for my birthday. It was very memorable not least because we got caught in a sudden snow storm on the way home (best part of a foot of snow in less than half an hour). Spent a while failing to get over a small hill and then had to take a massive detour as the road we'd travelled out on (under blue skies about 3 hours earlier) had since been closed. Needless to say, I was glad I'd not bought any fish and I've never been back to buy fish from there - just in case something unexpected happens and I can't get them home in a timely manner.

Do they still have that huge tank with, I think it was a pacu?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 12:23:35 AM
They do indeed Helen, and many other whopping specimens, not least of all some gigantic common Plecos...!!!  And yes, by the way, that is the one indeed...  near the M1 junction for Mansfield (not sure of the J number)...  A bit further on and actually in Mansfield is the hugely impressive Pro-Shrimp, although I have as yet not managed to get to the place in person, but they are fantastic for plants and of course for an impressive line up of ornamental snails (which changes often as stuff becomes available etc...)

I used to live on t'other side of the Pennines myself, on the outskirts of Stockport and not far from the Derbyshire Border...  Still have many friends and family over that way... :)

I dunno if you are anywhere near Stockport Helen, but there is an equally amazing fish shop there too, called Abyss  ( http://www.abyssaquatics.co.uk/ )
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 02:05:49 PM
Yay...!!!  The two Red Racer Nerite snails have arrived...!!!  (http://www.cdv-forum.com/Smileys/default/wavies.gif)

Also got a pot of Hygrophila Corymbosa Compact, which is perhaps a bit of a gamble after my abject failure with the Hygrophila Costata, but we shall see...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 21, 2018, 02:10:54 PM
Hooooray! New snails.  :)
Congratulations on your new arrivals.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 02:27:03 PM
God forbid, but one day I might actually grow up...!!!   :rotfl:

Really chuffed with the new additions, and they're not too big, which is a bonus...  Was initially really put off Nerites because of their sesame seed reputation, but the original Black Helmet Nerite is a little doozy...!!!  Saying that, you never see him when the tank lights are on, but then his primary function is as a key working member of the clean up crew...  These two new boys are handsome little tykes and are more about adding that little splash of colour and just plain having some of the rarer snails - which I do get a kick out of...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 03:28:44 PM
Here are the two new boys...  Please forgive the poor pics and glare from the tank glass etc...  but they're good enough to see them at least...  :) 

(https://imagez.to/i/kqxmG9Qb.jpg)

(https://imagez.to/i/gR9XWjO5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on June 21, 2018, 06:11:59 PM
They are really gorgeous!  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 07:12:31 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on June 21, 2018, 08:51:43 PM
Dude! Nice looking snails.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 21, 2018, 10:26:33 PM
I'm really chuffed right now as they are quite happy pottering about in full view with the lights on...  :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 22, 2018, 10:47:43 PM
Tell you what guys, I used TNC Carbon for what was just a fraction over one month - maybe 5 weeks - and the plants have gone ballistic now...  aquatic jungle city...!!!   :yikes:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 23, 2018, 07:35:21 AM
Good to know. How does it compare to Flourish excel...(have you ever tried this)? What is your dose rate?  I want to give a different liquid carbon product a go as the easy life stuff I'm using I really dont rate.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 23, 2018, 09:37:53 AM
I've only ever tried the TNC Carbon Matt and so, alas, am unable to give a comparison verdict etc...   

TNC's recommended dose is 1ml per 50 litres, per day...  My tank holds an estimated 150 litres of water, after allowing for substrate and decorations etc, and so a full daily dose would be 3ml...

My regime was to slowly build up to 2ml per day and then eventually drop that back down to 1ml per day and finally stop completely...  So, at the highest level, I was still only on two thirds of the recommended daily dose... 

What I have noticed both times I've used liquid carbon is that you don't necessarily notice much difference initially, and then after a little while things take off nicely...  I would imagine that it may be different from tank to tank according to set up, plant levels and nutrients etc... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on June 23, 2018, 11:26:27 AM
I’ve always assumed that all of the liquid carbon products were the same in terms of ingredients. Is this not the case ?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 23, 2018, 12:01:05 PM
Ditto Dave...  I dunno the answer though...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on June 23, 2018, 07:15:38 PM
I thought the same too but recently I am hearing that the flourish excel contains something different... @Sue was it you I heard this from??
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on June 23, 2018, 09:02:45 PM
Flourish Excel contains polycycloglutaracetal which is a polymerised isomer of glutaraldehyde.
TNC carbon contains glutaraldehyde. This is from The Nutrient Company's website
Quote
Contains :- 2% Gluteraldahyde

If there are any other 'liquid carbon' products I'll see if I can find what's in those.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 23, 2018, 10:32:18 PM
I've been adding 0.5ml TNC carbon to my tank for a few weeks. The recommended dose would be 4ml, as I have about 220l of water in my tank.

I didn't want to add enough carbon to trigger a major growth spurt because I'm fairly sure I have a lot of other nutrient deficiencies which would be exacerbated.

In general, since I've been adding TNC carbon I have noticed that the plants are looking more healthy and green, without having noticeably increased growth. It is also showing up other deficiencies, but they're not really extreme, so I'm expecting to be able to treat them (when I get around to looking up what they are!)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 23, 2018, 10:51:15 PM
You may well be on the brink of a growth explosion Helen...  Well, "explosion" is an exaggeration, but don't be surprised if growth rates do start to increase any day now...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 24, 2018, 11:24:36 AM
I think I have too many other nutrients limiting growth. The first one I've identified is potassium. So maybe after I've treated that...

Having said that, my lotus has sent up another surface leaf. Which I'm pretty pleased about.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 24, 2018, 11:37:27 AM
Worth considering one of those potassium test kits Helen...  I was convinced my K was lacking and came very close to supplementing with Seachem Potassium...  Turned out that the Potassium levels were fine in the end... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Helen on June 24, 2018, 01:53:47 PM
I actually have a potassium test kit. I just need to find the time to use it!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 24, 2018, 07:50:01 PM
It would be remiss of me to not admit that I did exactly the same Helen...  Bought the kit, then didn't use it for a good while...  Glad I did in the end though...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on June 27, 2018, 05:17:01 PM
No major news to report other than The Cookie Crew are looking like a happy bunch today...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 03, 2018, 12:46:33 AM
I've had my first fish fatality...   :'(    One of the eleven Cardinal Tetras was found floating, brown bread, the evening of the same day I did a water change...  No signs of anything wrong with him/her, just an apparently random death... 

Parameters all checked of course and absolutely no change in any department: 0-0-5

Dunno if the death is related to the water change somehow - Severn Trent have issued a low water stock warning, so I dunno if that may mean that the new water could have included something "from the dregs" kinda thing, although that's hard to imagine... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Rustle on July 03, 2018, 06:58:38 AM
Sorry for your loss cookie, perhaps the hot weather we are having had something to do with it.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on July 03, 2018, 07:12:08 AM
Sorry to hear about your loss.
Unfortunately sometimes these things happen, an an unexplained loss can be frustrating.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on July 03, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Very sorry to read about this, @TopCookie.  :'(
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 03, 2018, 10:43:45 AM
Thanks guys... 

I'm more perplexed than I am upset, kinda thing...  There was no sign of anything wrong whatsoever...  Being one of eleven, sorta softens the blow a bit - I would be more upset had it been my lone BN Pleco or one of my four Cories etc... 

The Oto Cats all seem fine and from what I've understood, they're a great barometer for potential issues, so this and the water test results assure me that it is more likely to be a random death...  My one concern is that the one Platy I have can be a bit of a bully at times, so perhaps there is a chance that he's had something to do with this...?
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: daveyng on July 03, 2018, 05:52:26 PM
What’s the temperature in the tank at the moment. It could be heat related although Cardinals don’t seem to mind that.

Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 03, 2018, 11:11:16 PM
Generally around 24.5°C at the mo Dave...  There's some partial plus or minus, depending on various factors, but I've not seen it above 25.2°C at the highest point recently... 

Everybody else in the tank is fine...  I don't mind saying that for the next couple of days after the Cardinal went, I was very worried that others may follow suit, especially the recently added Oto Cats, but no worries at all thankfully...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2018, 09:31:48 AM
It is upsetting when you do your best for the fish then one dies for no apparent reason. But these things do happen, as I know only too well.
We can have no idea just what kind of water conditions our fish are subjected to in their journey from the breeder to our tanks, and I am sure that a lot of fish are weakened on the way to us.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 04, 2018, 10:35:15 AM
Mrs Cookie & I are away for a week from tomorrow, off down to Torquay for a few days, to see friends there and then to Cardiff on the way back to visit my old dad...  That will be an anxious time in terms of the fish tank...... 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
With all, the plants in your tank, and the micro-organisms that live on the plants, they'll be fine  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 04, 2018, 10:43:16 AM
I've got Mrs Cookie's son popping in daily while we are away, primarily to feed the four cats...  So he will be able to just pop a little food in, maybe twice say, while we are away - and keep up with the daily ferts of course...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
Does he know how much to feed, and not to give them any more than you say? When in doubt, put the food in one of those pill boxes with a compartment for each day, then hide the food tubs. It is quite common for non-fishkeepers to think we don't feed them enough especially when the fish beg for more, so they give them extra often with disastrous results.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 04, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
He does Sue...  lol, he had to sit through a big lecture and the express instruction that too much food is a no-no, better to forget than to over feed etc...  :)  He wasn't impressed, lolol...   :rotfl:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Sue on July 04, 2018, 12:19:04 PM
When we've been away in the past my son has fed my fish and he knows what would happen if he gave them too much  ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on July 04, 2018, 01:25:40 PM
When I was on holiday in May I had a friend come in every 3rd day to feed the gang.
The tanks were numbered, with a corresponding list of instructions. They also came over a few times prior to the holiday to be trained in how to feed the fish & amphibians.
Although I was concerned, everything went wel,l and all the aquatic inhabitants in the Littlefish household were fine.
I was so pleased.  ;D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 12, 2018, 03:14:00 PM
Back home now and happy to report zero disasters.....  Phew.....!!!   :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on July 12, 2018, 04:03:28 PM
Glad to hear that your gang are all well, and I hope you had a good holiday.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on July 13, 2018, 01:12:09 AM
Thanks Donna...  :) 

Holiday was brill ta, had some time in Torquay and some time in Cardiff...  Got back and can't believe the difference in plant growth in one week...!!!   :yikes:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on September 10, 2018, 12:00:17 PM
Multiple algae issues update:

Some of you will remember that I have been struggling with a variety of types of algae, non of which the clean up crew were especially interested in...!!!  Was a complete nightmare to be honest...!!!

Anyways, after switching the tank timer lights down to a mere six hours per day plus we got blinds in the living room, which have cut down the natural light levels significantly, things started to improve...  There was also that whole plant nutrition angle, with which I am now keeping up with at the recommended dose of TNC Complete but split down into daily doses... 

The magic final factor has now occurred - time...!!!  I am happy to be able to report that all algae has gone, the BBA, Staghorn or hair algae, the works...!!!  Seems like time was the magic ingredient...  After making the other changes, they collectively just needed time to get fully underway  :)

Interesting though that even with ferts being added, 6 hours of photoperiod seems to be enough...
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on September 10, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
The magic final factor has now occurred - time...!!!  I am happy to be able to report that all algae has gone, the BBA, Staghorn or hair algae, the works...!!!  Seems like time was the magic ingredient...  After making the other changes, they collectively just needed time to get fully underway  :)
Brilliant news :cheers: - and an interesting update; thanks for this.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on September 10, 2018, 07:15:03 PM
That is absolutely fantastic news. Im really happy for you.  :))

I expect you will want a period of stability now but so you know for future, if you really want a different photoperiod (to enjoy the tank more etc) you can shift the time the lights are in into any part of the day or (more risky!) reduce the lighting intensity and lengthen the lighting period.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on September 10, 2018, 08:06:42 PM
Great news, so glad to hear that your algae issues have been resolved.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on September 10, 2018, 11:11:27 PM
I honestly thought my tank had become cursed, lol, and just plain couldn't imagine how I'd ever get rid of what I think was the BBA - let alone the other types...  But then just at a very slow rate, the algae backed off and I honestly can't see any now... 

No doubt that stuff will still be lurking and would surely break out again if circumstances were right for it...  The only bit that remains is the bit beneath the sand where it meets the glass, but even that has the top several millimetres gone now, where I guess the snails & shrimp have been able to get at it... 

One change I have noticed in recent weeks though was that pretty much all the stem plants in the tank have been steadily under attack by the Rabbit snails and/or the Faunus snails, to the point where they appear to munch through the stems at the base and destroy the whole plant...!!!  Then it dawned on me that there's probably a lot less natural food for them now with the algae all but gone...  So, it didn't take long to twig that I should re-evaluate my feeding routine and shift the balance so that there is far less protein based food and increase the algae wafers...  This is looking to be working now too and the various snails can at least get to the algae wafers in time, whereas with the previous emphasis on flakes and such like, it was all getting snapped up by the Tetras etc... 

The old learning curve never stops with this hobby, eh...?  I'm sure that I'm still a ways to go in terms of getting things just right, but do at least feel like things are going in the right direction now, instead of the wrong direction - a major shift indeed...  :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on September 10, 2018, 11:15:13 PM
Have you tried using a credit card to remove the algae between the sand and the glass? If you give this a go DO NOT get any sand trapped between the card and the glass as it will scratch it, but this method is effective nevertheless.
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on September 11, 2018, 08:06:45 AM
The old learning curve never stops with this hobby, eh...?  I'm sure that I'm still a ways to go in terms of getting things just right, but do at least feel like things are going in the right direction now, instead of the wrong direction - a major shift indeed...  :)

I tend to think of it as a rollercoaster, rather than a curve, but that's probably just me occassionally forgetting things if I panic.  ;D

Great to hear that the change in feeding has reduced the snail attacks on your plants.

Keep up the good work.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on September 11, 2018, 07:07:26 PM
I tend to think of it as a rollercoaster, rather than a curve, but that's probably just me occassionally forgetting things if I panic.  ;D
Certainly not just you - I couldn't agree more that it's a rollercoaster (and that's me with only the one tank on the go)!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on September 11, 2018, 07:13:21 PM
The trouble with the hobby is it's just so addictive... fishkeep responsibly people!
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on November 15, 2018, 10:41:38 PM
I have an imposter...!!!  An asparagus like invader...!!!   ;D 

Guys n gals, what is this asparagus spear looking shoot coming from one of my Echinodorus plants...?   

(https://imagez.to/i/xunvk2m8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Matt on November 16, 2018, 09:19:17 PM
When it reaches the surface a flower will form :)
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: fcmf on November 16, 2018, 10:36:02 PM
Wow - your plants look so lush and algae-free.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on November 16, 2018, 11:26:42 PM
Excellent...  Blimey...!!!  I didn't know that they do flower...  That stem is growing at the rate of around one inch per day, maybe even more...!!!  It just suddenly appeared and is streaking across the tank like an Olympic athlete...!!!  :D 

Thanks @fcmf   :)   I should get a better pic really, showing the whole tank...  just gutted at the number or pesky micro ramshorns, lol...!!!  So pleased about the algae thing now - it was really bad at one point and looked horrific...!!!  Now, the biggest thing is still trying to strike the right balance of feeding so that the algae dependent boys n girls don't munch on the plant leaves so much, whilst at the same time avoid overfeeding the tank and encouraging the pest snails...  I'm fairly sure it's largely about striking the balance between protein based foods and algae/vegetable based foods etc...  Lol, I'll get there one of these days...!!!  :D 
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: TopCookie on December 19, 2018, 02:22:19 PM
Major service in the old tank today...  Full monty filter service, including new pre-filter medium...  New skimmer filter pads too...  Plus of course a nice large water change... 

Delighted to have this done now, on the right side of Christmas, which means nothing major to be done whilst eating one hundred or so mince pies and doing my darnedest to make a dent in the World wine lake...   ;D

Edit:  The flowering stem has gone mental, with several bunches of small white'ish flowers...  They're not especially pretty - quite pathetic and dirty looking really - but what a buzz none the less...   :D
Title: Re: The Cookie Crew
Post by: Littlefish on December 19, 2018, 05:37:17 PM
It's always nice to have a big clean and know that it's out of the way before the celebrations begin.  :)