The Cookie Crew

Everything keeps coming back to the NDRs...  Planning a trip to Wharf on Tuesday, so watch this space...   

Do you think your anti phosphorus stuff could be stripping the nitrates too?

Well, what a day...!!!  Visit to Wharf Aquatics and now have three more juvenile Rabbit snails and one new 'centre piece' fish, for want of a better expression...  Did look at the Neon Dwarf Rainbows, as planned, but somehow they failed to woo me enough to take the plunge...  To my eyes, the stock they had looked a little washed out of colour, just enough to put that little seed of doubt in my mind, so Operation NDR is on hold for the time being...  BUT...  the new fish, which I am super excited about (something that will likely make you all chortle at least a little, lol) is a lovely looking (imho) humble Platy: 





Anyways, had the chance to speak with the planted tank guru at Wharf, a smashing lad called Adam, and told him about the various issues that I currently have...  Firstly, the excess phosphates, secondly the zero nitrates and then the arrival of the filamentous algae and the green algae where the sand meets the glass...  Adam's considered explanation, or theory, is this: 

He was of the opinion that what's happening is that all these issues are in fact likely to be directly connected and probably centre around the plants "stalling" in growth because of the lack of nitrates...  Combined with the excess phosphates, this has paved the way for the recent growth in the two algae varieties that I'm now seeing and that they will be sucking up any residual nitrates and enjoying the phosphates etc, while the plants are failing to compete with them due to the insufficient and unbalanced nutrients... 

I did fill him in on the tank set up details etc with info on plant numbers and types, water parameters, tank size, livestock etc...  Also told him about currently using TNC Lite, on the grounds that I didn't want to add extra phosphates...  His advice is to switch back to TNC Complete because of the extra NPK and explained that if the plants can get growing properly again, then there will be no need to worry about the phosphates so much as the plants will start to consume them more...  He also advised to cut back on the amount of Amazon Frogbit I allow in the tank, on the grounds that it does consume nitrates so readily but also suggested that I can keep using the Seachem Phosguard for the time being...  So far as dosage for the TNC Complete, his recommendation is to use two thirds recommended weekly dose, but twice per week - to help avoid that feast & famine type deal of once weekly dosing...  Stick to this for a few weeks and see how things progress...  He was of the view that getting the plants back on track will have the effect of making them out compete the algae and that it should therefore recede quite naturally etc... 

Bizarre in a way, insomuch as I assumed that I had to deal with the excess phosphates as one issue and the algae as an entirely separate issue...  After Adam's explanation, it does all make sense and the timing probably does fit what's been happening too... 

So, I estimate 150 litres of water in my 170 litre tank and the TNC recommended dose is 1ml per 10 litres, or 15ml total, per week...  I have today dosed with two thirds of that; 10ml and will do the same in a few days time...  I had been dosing 5ml TNC Lite once a week, so the change in regime is a big one and hopefully things should get back onto something like an even keel as soon as possible, leastways I certainly hope so... 

I think that there is a deficiency of both potassium and nitrogen evident, based on this diagram (and many other similar ones on t'interwb)



With the excessive phosphates, that adds up to a quite severely out of balance nutrition and I agree Helen, Adam's advice sounds bang on the money...

At 10ml Complete every few days, my bottle won't last that long so your suggestion of "going dry" may well be the answer for the long term...   

Thanks Donna...   

Yeah, funny with the NDRs...  It was a bit of intuition really, or as the young 'uns might say, I just wasn't "feeling it" when I looked at the NDRs...  They didn't look anything remotely like bad in any way, but my gut feeling was to hold off for now...  Probably at the back of my mind was a degree of worry over getting the various other issues under control first...

It's a funny old sensation, eh...     But I also think it can be deceptive and misleading too, sometimes putting you off something that would actually be ideal and other times turning you on to something that's just not right for you (in my case, the Red Phantom Tetras are an example of that)...

Nice looking Platy.   

Adams advice fits nicely with my most recent thinking on your situation, the only thing I would add would be to dose your ferts daily if at all possible as this will further alleviate any feast or famine issues.  I also probably wouldn't be continuing to use the phosguard personally. I would always advise slightly overdosing a complete fertiliser and doing a big water change to reset levels in the tank weekly.  That was any excess phos or even a micro element such as iron can be prevented from getting too high. 

Now this might sound obvious but... It sounds like you have had good growth in the past so... just go back to what you were doing before

I agree with your thoughts @TopCookie

Also nice to know the platy seems to be 'playing' with his tank mates.. I find that comforting and amusing in equal measure!!

I hear that...!!!  The trap of getting caught up and "distracted by an apparent problem and getting into a right tizzy..." 

Funnily enough, one thing that I have been learning in my short fishkeeping career so far is that quite a lot of apparent problems seem to sort themselves out if left alone to their own devices...  I had a spell of excess micro-critters at one point and that really did throw me into a major tizzy...  There were a bunch of what I think may have been detritus worms, plus the tiny little white swimmy/darty critters etc...  That really got to me, but then in a blink of an eye, I stopped seeing them...!!!  I do still have a slight issue with limpets, but the worms and darty little tinkers have all vanished now...!!!  There have been other things along the way too, which have had a similar tizzy inducing affect, but seemed to iron themselves out when given time...

I guess the lesson both there and with what you guys, @Matt & @Littlefish, are saying is not to make kneejerk reactions to such problems...   

I will stick with Adam's advice, fine tuned to daily dosing rather than twice weekly, after what you guys have suggested...  Will do some water changes along the way of course, but will essentially look to be going "back to normal" other than a revised fertiliser routine to allow for the greater number and diversity of plants... 

I agree - the platy is lovely (so much so that I even checked the water parameters to see whether even a remote possibility for me - unfortunately definitely not), and it's good to hear about what he's been up to - keep us posted on how he's doing.