Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping => Gallery Showcase => Topic started by: Littlefish on May 22, 2017, 11:43:43 AM
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Today is the day that I have actually started the tank that is suitable for the fish that I fell for over a year ago - Sewellia lineolata.
When I got my first temperate tank(s) with zebra danios and v. platies I started looking at other fish, and when I saw a picture of that particular hillstream loach (picture below) my mind was made up. I spent a lot of time researching requirements, and getting distracted by my multiple tank syndrome, but last Christmas I had a tank delivered that I set aside for the project.
Over the past few weeks I've been buying bits and pieces, plastic tubing, a pump, etc. and this morning I made a start on the river tank manifold.
As you can see, I'm a bit of a girl when it comes to this sort of thing, and I work on a towel on the floor in the living room, rather than a workshop or shed, but at least I'm getting stuff done.
Just stopping for a coffee, and to give the silicone on the base of the manifold a bit of time to start drying, then it's time to carry on with making the in and outflow sections. :)
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Those are lovely tanks, I have serious tank envy!
What's going in the other one?
I also had to hit YouTube to see what the pipes are going to become, Looks like its going to be awesome once finished. :afro
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The tank on the right is for the river tank.
The tank on the left houses my 6 mature male axolotls. They were one of the many distractions. ;D
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Ah. Thought they were both currently empty since I completely failed to notice the Christmas decorations! :-[
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Nice, I've seen this kind of river setup in videos. Hillstream loaches are perfect for it. Will you be putting other fish in or packing it with those ones?
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I will be putting other fish in, there are quite a few fish that like cooler conditions and fast moving water, as long as there is not a strict adherence to a biotope. I'm thinking along the lines of giant danios, freshwater gobies, and shiners, but the main star will be the loaches.
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All nice choices. :D I'm particularly keen to see some shiners.
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I only saw those fish recently, when visiting an LFS that had blue shiners. They looked really good, and they were in a cooler set up, so I had a chat with the staff to see if they were suitable, then did some research when I got home. I haven't finalised my fish list yet, so who knows what could happen.
I've already started to get some plants suitable for the river tank, and have some bucephalandra "wavy green" in my plant storage tank. I had another trip to Aquarium Gardens last week, and had a chat with the owner. He showed me some bucephalandra, the same size and shape as the ones I had, but a sort of dark almost purple colour, so I had to buy them. I've also been collecting large pieces of wood and large smooth rocks for months, so at least when I've finished the river manifold I'm ready to start setting up the tank. I'm very excited. ;D
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I've done some more work on the river manifold tonight. I can honestly say that I have not improved my skills with either super glue or silicone. :-[
Leaving the pipe work to dry and will try putting it in the tank tomorrow.
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@Littlefish I'm not sure if it too late but I can see a simpler plumbing method the would increase flow and reduce the visible pipe and power heads in the tank If you are still flexible I could sketch it, just ask.
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@Andy the minion thanks for the offer, but I've just put the manifold in the tank, with the assistance of my ever present helpers - brute force & ignorance.
I ended up buying a dry pump, so I have hose going from the manifold, rather than having the pump heads attached to the pipes. I have some large pieces of wood with which I hope to be able to hide the hose in the corner of the tank.
Most of the pipework on the manifold will be hidden by the sand & rocks, which should also help to hold it in place.
If the whole thing explodes the first time I turn it on I'll be in touch immediately for your sketch of a simpler plumbing method.
I still need to add the filter sponge to the uprights on the left, and will pick that up during my trip to collect the live food from the LFS tomorrow.
Phew, this is quite hard work.
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@Littlefish Yes it looked like you were making good progress. Have you considered a Hamberg filter for the intake end?
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@Andy the minion I had to look that up :-[
The particular LFS I go to on Fridays have a substantial pond section, so I was hoping to pick up some suitable sponge tomorrow. I'll also be using an FX4 external filter in the tank, so the sponge on the manifold intake is just to stop bits going into the manifold and into the pump.
You are very technical/engineering minded, whereas I'm currently just bumbling along having a go at recreating what I've seen on other sites. I am slightly concerned that the whole lot will explode when I switch it on, but it's all part of the learning curve. At some point on the weekend expect to see pictures of the whole lot in pieces.
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@Littlefish Relax, it'll be fine.....there is nothing to blow. Well apart from the lethally high voltage and current, large quantities of water and a little fish dangling by her toes into the tank from the top of a rickety ladder..... Oh I think I might just give the HSE a quick call, be right back.
No really it will be fine, so long as you don't monkey with the wires the only risk is a leak from the FX4 and you have done one of those before.
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All the electrics should be fine, and I've got an FX4 running on the axolotl tank, so I should be ok setting that up. Regardless of the amount of super glue & silicone I've used, I'm still expecting the water pressure to break the manifold, so it should be quite exciting when I switch things on.
I have my usual safety precautions already in place - letting a friend know that if I don't email or text them by a certain time then it may be worth some minor panic, so I may have to extend that to getting them to come over with plenty of towels and a wet/dry vac to help me clear up the mess. ::)
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I was reading about river tanks the other day and remembered this thread.
How's the tank getting on now?
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It's still a work in progress, but nearly done.
It's currently cycling while I grow more algae on the remaining rocks in a tank on the windowsill.
The river manifold isn't running while I cycle, mainly to give some of the plants a chance to root well enough not to get swept away later. The flow at the back of the tank won't be quite as strong as the rest of the tank, so I'm hoping that everything will be ok. If not, then I'll just take all the plants out and put more wood & rocks in.
I've got 2 sets of bright lights on the tank to help with algae growth.
My biggest problem now is narrowing down the final list of fish. ;D
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Wow, looking epic.
That background is amazing... Wait ??? Is that an Otto I can see....
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Lol took me a while to spot the Otto... wasn't looking for that!
Tank looks great Littlefish, have you tested the manifold?
It will look brilliant when the rocks are added.
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I've only just found the oto as well. I remember Littlefish fooling us with that stick-on-the-outside oto when she bought it ;D
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That's looking really good.
I'm assuming the nothing exploded when you tested it out!
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I have tested the manifold and nothing exploded, which was a relief. :)
The Paleoplushie ottos have been on the outside of that tank for a while, but I may find somewhere else for them when I get some real fish in that tank.
I have some rocks precariously balanced on top of the largest pieces of wood because they are taking so long to sink properly. Those rocks will go into the algae tank on the windowsill when they are available.
Still struggling to narrow down the list of fish. ;D
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Wow! That's a nice looking river system. Very impressive.
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Thanks everyone.
@SinghRathorTari the background is just a stick on one I got from Amazon. It was quite reasonably priced and comes in various lengths, so most of my tanks are done out with it.
Originally I had 3 of the Paleoplushie otos, but one has been rehomed at the Coton branch of MA after a friend went to work there.
My remaining 2 had a brief holiday at Steve's place when Nathan Hill visited to take pictures of his tanks.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/news/fishkeeping-news/articles/2017/6/7/video-steven-bakers-amazing-wall-of-life-aquarium
The otos returned with a much dimmer view of my tanks, which is fair enough, as Steve's tanks are awesome.
I'm still cycling the river tank, trying to grow algae on rocks, and trying to narrow down my list of fish. ;D
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I'm still cycling the river tank, trying to grow algae on rocks, and trying to narrow down my list of fish. ;D
What fish are on the potential list?
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Sewellia lineolata is definite, as it is the whole reason for setting up a river tank.
As for tank mates:-
Shiners
Panda garra
giant danios
pearl danio
bulldog plec
gobies/stiphodons
Florida flagfish
There are a few others, but my main problem is that not all fish on the list will work together.
I guess I could set up another tank........... ;D
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Not another tank.... don't do it!!! :vcross:
My vote would be for gobies. These are high on my list for my bigger tank when that eventually happens!
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Technically I still have an empty tank in the spare room. ;D
So far my fish lists depend on where I shop. Ideally I'd like to get all the fish from the same shop.
So, from Kesgrave Tropicals I could get the following:
Sewellia lineolata
Butterfly hong kong plec (another hillstream loach, but darker)
Orange banded hillsteam catfish (Akysis vespa)
Panda garra
Rainbow shiner
Barcheek goby
white cheek goby
From my local MA I can get
Sewellia lineolata
Butterfly hong kong plec (another hillstream loach, but darker)
Panda garra
Red shiner
Cobalt blue goby
White cheek goby
Hikari danio
Giraffe danio
Whichever shop I go to I won't be able to get all the fish on the list because the tank will be too crowded, but at least they can both supply the hillstream loaches I want.
I've told MA I'll get the fish from them if they can get the fish and price match Kesgrave.
I'm just keeping the river tank ticking over, establishing the plants & growing algae on the rocks, until I know what fish I'm getting from where. It's very exciting. ;D
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We'll that background had me convinced!
Was just looking at the Steve Baker link; and I would call that a planted tank on another level.
My vote would go to the Bulldog Pleco, if you can get them. I have seen them at one of my LFS' and they look quite stand out when compared to the other Plecos.
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My local MA has a batch of bulldog plecs in at the moment. They may not be the most attractive fish in the world, but I do have a soft spot of weird looking fish, and those are adorably goofy. I was just slightly concerned that they might be a bit big compared to some of the other fish in the tank. If I get then then I think I can rule out the akysis vespa, which are quite small.
There are a lot of bottom dweller on both lists, but it is a river tank, so I guess that's only to be expected. I was thinking perhaps just a big group of shiners for mid-water. Or a mix of shiners and one type of danio.
I always struggle to narrow down fish lists.
Steve's Borneo tank is spectacular. They are featuring his other tanks in PFK next month.
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Have you considered Denison's Barbs (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sahyadria-denisonii/)?
They are peaceful (but active), seem happy with a wide range of water pH/hardness and are ideal for a river tank (https://www.keepingtropicalfish.co.uk/fish-database/denison-red-line-torpedo-barb/).
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Have you considered Denison's Barbs (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sahyadria-denisonii/)?
Good suggestion - personally, I love those fish. Be careful what you suggest to Littlefish, though - she might decide that she quite likes the idea of them too, and, at the rate things are going, she'll have to start putting tanks in the garden and down the street or else move into a castle to house them all. ;)
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Have you considered Denison's Barbs (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sahyadria-denisonii/)?
Good suggestion - personally, I love those fish. Be careful what you suggest to Littlefish, though - she might decide that she quite likes the idea of them too, and, at the rate things are going, she'll have to start putting tanks in the garden and down the street or else move into a castle to house them all. ;)
@fcmf you know me too well. ;D
They are great fish and ideal for the tank.
I'm still struggling to narrow down my list of fish. :-[
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Holy Pants, Batman!
Have you seen the price of Denison's barbs!?!
:yikes:
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Oh yeah.
That might be a problem!!
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They are lovely fish, although a tad pricey, and not easy to get hold of. The ones I found were at a store that delivered, but were only a 2 hour drive away, which I thought would be safer. Then I realised how much I'd be paying for a larger number to fill the mid-water region, and had to think again. :o
So far the list is as follows:
Sewellia lineolata x 10
Hong kong plec x 5
Bulldog plec x 2
Panda garra - currently have the 5 re-homed ones in the quarantine tank, but may consider more
I would like some stiphodon/gobies as well
Rainbow shiners - possibly around 30 if I go for one species of mid-water fish, or 15-20 if I go for some larger danios as well.
Any comments and/or suggestions?
I can't get all the fish from one supplier, so would probably get the hong kong plecs and bulldog plecs from MA.
Kesgrave Tropicals have all the others and is only around a one hour drive each way.
Any suggestions on the order in which I buy/introduce the fish? A lot of them like algae, so I have 2 tanks of rocks on the windowsill growing algae. As soon as the rocks go in the river tanks I'll restock the windowsill tanks to keep up supply. The river tank itself is cycled, and I'm keeping it ticking over until I decide what to do. It's having long periods of bright light to encourage the plants & algae. I'm planning on starting to get the fish towards the end of the month. Should I get all the fish from Kesgrave in the main tank, and have the MA stock in quarantine tanks for a month or so? Should I introduce perhaps the mid-water fish first? If I get all the shiners from Kesgrave, can I add all the Kesgrave fish at the same time? While the MA fish are in quarantine?
Help! I'm getting myself into a bit of a tizzy. This will be the largest number of fish added to one tank that I have dealt with, and after waiting for so long to do a river tank I'd be furious with myself if I get something wrong. :vcross:
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I went shopping this morning, and although I have spent some money I have come home empty-handed.
I visited the 2 local MA's to reserve some fish for the river tank.
Luckily the store at Coton had an empty tank, so I temporarily have my own tank at the store, where I have some hong kong plecs, bull dog plecs, and panda garras reserved for collection in a couple of weeks.
I'm going to contact Kesgrave Tropicals to order some sewellia lineolata, rainbow shiners, and gobies for collection in a couple of weeks.
The plan is to use the main tank for the fish from Kesgrave, and set up some quarantine tanks for the fish from MA. Unfortunately this means that I won't have all the fish in the river tank until early September, and I'll have to set up mini river tanks for quarantine, but I've bought some additional internal filters & I already have some air pumps, etc. to get decent flow & high oxygenation in the quarantine tanks, so I think that will help.
Fingers crossed.
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How very exciting - it's all starting to take more shape now and become more "real". :cheers:
Keep us posted on the developments. :fishy1:
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Any comments and/or suggestions?
Breath deeply and relax. :)
"Rainbow shiners - possibly around 30 if I go for one species of mid-water fish, or 15-20 if I go for some larger danios as well."
Maybe hold off until some other shiners (like the red shiners) become available? They are so seldom seen in home aquariums that it'll be something to talk about. Although your current selection of fish and amphibians has plenty there!
"Any suggestions on the order in which I buy/introduce the fish?"
Generally it should go from top to bottom. Lack of dither fish means bottom fish hide more as an absence of higher fish equates in the fish mind to predators having got them. Though you don't appear to have anything clashing territorially so introducing all fish at the same time wouldn't be an issue.
"Should I get all the fish from Kesgrave in the main tank, and have the MA stock in quarantine tanks for a month or so?"
The first batch of forktails I had when I lost over 60% were mail order from Kesgrave. I would be tempted to, and mainly did on my Amazon tank, put them all in the main tank and treat them all at the same time with a general cure and dewormer. Both MA and Kesgrave at the same time. So in effect the main tank for the first month is a quarantine tank under treatment. The only fish I did separate were the L397's as they are more sensitive.
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It's all too exciting for me to relax. ;D
Would you believe that the MA in Coton has red shiners....and one of the independent LFS I get my live food from has blue ones (but have said there is only 1 female), so I guess I could go for a mix. Perhaps I'll have a look at the stock levels again and look at the numbers of mid-water fish.
I was planning to drive to Kesgrave to collect the fish as I figure a 2-3 hour round trip would be less stressful for the fish (and me) than overnight delivery. I've got some large polystyrene boxes from work, which can be restrained using the seat belts, so I'm hoping to give the fish a relatively low-stress journey.
Introducing the fish at the same time would be great, if I could do it. Not only would it mean that the tank would be complete sooner than expected, but it would also mean that I wouldn't have to have numerous quarantine tanks on the go either.
I've just been to check what medications I have, and am going to throw most of them away as I can't remember if they have been opened within the last 12 months, so now I just have the esha 2000 left. Time to hit the internet and order some more. Would it be better to order the esha 2000 and ndx products, which looks like they would cover most things? Or go with the medications that the fish would be on at the stores? I think the MA use mainly Interpet products in store, but can check products used & schedule of medication, and I could phone Kesgrave to see what they use.
I also think that one of the things I'll do is pop a couple of snail traps into the tank for a couple of weeks. I've got some snails in there that have probably come off the plants, and was going to leave them, but don't want snails dying from fish medication and messing up the water quality at such a critical time.
Thanks for the help, and further comments, advice, etc. are always welcome. ;D
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I have been playing with fish numbers on the community creator here, and on Aqadvisor, to finalise my fish list.
Where the exact fish have not been on the lists I've replaced them with something similar, just to get a rough idea. I'm not planning on filling the tank with water, and the surface will be quite splashy due to strong flow, so I've taken that into account. Obviously the difference in suggested stock levels between the two sites is huge, as also noted this morning by @mizuti
On the CC here I have allowed for 400L water and my external filter. I have not allowed for any extra filtration provided by the river manifold.
Hillstream loach x 15 (to allow for 10 sewellia lineolata, and 5 hong kng plecs)
Bristlenose x 3 (for the bulldog plecs)
Zebra loach x 8 (for the panda garra)
Peacock gobies x 10 (for freshwater/cobalt blue gobies)
Brilliant rasbora x 30 (for shiners)
This gives me a stock level of 64%
Aqadvisor gives me a stock level of 126%
::) ??? :P
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I must admit I don't quite believe the external filter option here is realistic. I have always stuck to oversized internal as a better guide if I have an oversized filter be it internal or external. What would that give you @Littlefish ?
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I've just checked the figures and if I use "oversize internal" I'm at 86%, and if I use "internal" I'm at 103%.
In a strange way this reflects more of the Aqadvisor because that said I had plenty of filtration whilst being over stocked, so I guess it's more about footprint of tank & water volume than filtration.
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That's how stocked I like my tanks to be. It starts to push the "too many fish in a zoo cage" boundary beyond there in my opinion.
Will you have plants in the tank to help prevent nitrate buildup? Otherwise you clearly have more than enough filtration!
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I'm not too sure about the way the CC allows more fish the better the filtration. On my other forum, the real expert on there says the amount of filtration makes no difference to stocking levels. (This chap writes fish profiles for Seriously Fish and regularly has conversations with Neale Monks, the fish keeping guru, to keep himself up to date) Though I can see that an external effectively increases the volume of the tank and that extra volume allows more fish.
I have always used only internal and external in the CC, I don't used the oversized options.
There are pros and cons for both putting all the fish in together and quarantining them separately. Do you intend use meds as a preventative when you get the fish, or only if any fish look sick?
I don't think it really matters if you use the same meds as the shop. The important thing is not mixing meds in the same tank without removing the first one before adding the second. I would go with the eSHa meds, and maybe include a whitespot med as well.
I always write the date I open the bottle either on the label or the box.
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@Matt I do have plants in the tank, but not enough to make a difference to the nitrate levels because the water flow doesn't really allow for it. Due to my water quality from the tap (hard & with high nitrates), I'll be using a mix on tap & RO to bring both down a bit and bring my tank water more into the range that the fish are comfortable with. I'll be doing this when I do the big water change before getting the fish, and from then on.
@Sue with an external filter in the CC I have a stock level of 64%. To be honest, with an external filter & river manifold, I'm comfortable with the filtration. The tank is a fair size and is quite open, with lots of sand & rocks for the bottom dwellers, and lots of wood & branches towards the back for fishy hidey holes and to get out of the high flow for a rest if necessary. The river manifold covers the front 3/4 of the tank, so the back part has extra air stones to maintain circulation around the wood at a more sedate pace.
Originally I was going to quarantine fish from different shops in different tanks, but the suggestion from @marquismirage for putting them all in one tank and treating them all at the same time with preventative medication interested me, as it would mean not having to have 4 quarantine tanks running at the same time. I've not bought fish from different shops without separate quarantine before, but it would be great to have them all in the same tank. I've still got quarantine tanks available if anything needs to be removed for stronger or more targeted treatments.
I already have the eSHa 2000, but will get some more, along with the exit, gdex, and ndx to cover the range.
The other meds I had in the cupboard were ones I'd bought from stores before I read about the eSHa products here, so they are no longer needed. I will make the effort to write on the bottles/boxes from now on though.
Is there any particular order you'd suggest using the treatments in? I have plenty of carbon, etc. in the cupboard to help remove meds after treatment & before water change, prior to using another one.
I can't believe how excited I am about this river tank.
Thanks all for the help so far. Please keep posting advice as I'm finding this all really useful.
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As a preventative I would use eSHa 2000 as that seems effective against most diseases.
In 20 years of fishkeeping, I've had whitespot several times, finrot a few times (mainly bettas as their tails are so easily damaged) and camallanus worm once. I've had some fish die of dropsy, underlying disease not known, and other fish die of unknown causes.
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eSha 2000 is my go to general cure too and can be used with EXIT (mainly for white spot) and gdex (for internal worms) at the same time.
There is an upper limit to how much bacteria any given tank can support. This is based on the ammonia that the tank receives as we all know already. The thing about filters and the beneficial bacteria is that the bacteria will grow on any given surface in the tank too. So the filter isn't the only place where bacteria resides. As a result an overly large filter will only grow a percentage of the overall bacteria to support the aquarium. Anything extra isn't used except to gather poop in one place (which isn't a bad thing). You'll run out of swim space for the fishies before you run out of bacteria.
Water changes are far more important than the filtration to keep the water quality good. The more fishies you have in there the more water volume you need to change to keep things good. On my big tank I do around 25 l (approx. 6-7%) change per day as it's much easier than doing a 25% in one day and it's probably more than the tank needs. ThinkFish puts my stocking level at 28% with 17 Silver Tipped Tetras, 17 Super Blue Emperor Tetras, 18 Greenfire Bloodfin Tetras, 5 Apistogramma sp. Tefe, and 2 L397's. Still I think it looks right as there's enough space for each fish to swim without bumping into other fish constantly.
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I'm confident that I have more than enough filtration, as I bought bigger than necessary to make sure I got enough turn over to create strong water flow. The sponge filters on the manifold are just to stop stuff getting into that pump, but I'm sure it will also make a nice home for the bacteria.
If only I had a tank big enough for all of the fish that I wanted. ::) Actually, I don't think I'll ever have tanks big enough for all the fish I want. ;D
I've ordered the eSHa meds to arrive in plenty of time for the fish, which I aim to collect in 2-3 weeks.
;D
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eSha 2000 is my go to general cure too and can be used with EXIT (mainly for white spot) and gdex (for internal worms) at the same time.
eSHa gdex (active ingredient praziquantel) is for internal cestode tapeworms (and skin and gill flukes), eSHa-ndx (active ingredient levamisole) is for intestinal nematode worms.
If I remember my zoology, cestodes are flat worms and nematodes are round worms, so presumably they need different things to kill them.
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I've got everything on order, with the exception of the ndx, which was not available on Amazon. I'll try to track it down on other sites just so I have a fully stocked cupboard.
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It's on Ebay if you have an account there.....
Do any local shops stock it? My go-to shop does; the owner told me they were getting it in after I mentioned battling camallanus worms and when it arrived he phoned me to tell me the active ingredient so I knew for future reference.
When you do track some down, could you look at the info sheet and see if it does actually say on there what's in it because eSHa's website doesn't say :-\
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It's on Ebay if you have an account there.....
Do any local shops stock it? My go-to shop does; the owner told me they were getting it in after I mentioned battling camallanus worms and when it arrived he phoned me to tell me the active ingredient so I knew for future reference.
When you do track some down, could you look at the info sheet and see if it does actually say on there what's in it because eSHa's website doesn't say :-\
I've had a little google, and a post on another fish forum has popped up in which someone has posted that the ingredients are:
eSHa-ndx - levamisole
Sera Nematol - emamectin
Kusuri Wormer Plus - flubendazole
Hopefully Littlefish will be able to verify if that's correct when she tracks it down. :)
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Hmmm, did the poster on the other forum have an avatar that looks suspiciously like mine?
The chap at the fish shop looked at the leaflet and phoned me to say that ndx contains levamisole, but I haven't actually seen the leaflet I just have his word for it.
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I've ordered the ndx from ebay, so it should be here later this week. :)
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Hmmm, did the poster on the other forum have an avatar that looks suspiciously like mine
Hahaha - so they do! Now that you mention it, and I've re-read the content, it does sound/read like a post of yours. ;D
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All meds have arrived so I am now fully stocked on that front.
Also have a snail trap in the tank, which seems to be working well.
All fish from branches of MA are reserved, so now I just need to decide on my mid-water swimmers, and contact Kesgrave Tropicals to order the rest of the fish I want & arrange a collection date.
:fishy1:
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Does the med include eSHa-ndx? If it does, could you look at the leaflet and see if it gives the active ingredient. The chap at Aquatic Finatic told me it was levamisole, but I haven't actually seen it with my own eyes :)
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@Sue thanks for reminding me. Yes I do have the ndx and will check the leaflet and report back this evening.
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The eSHa-ndx contains levamisole hydrochloride, and methylis parahydroxybenzoas.
You are correct in saying that it treats roundworms, as opposed to the gdex, which is flatworms.
If you want any more information just let me know. :)
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Thank you :) It's good to have it confirmed. Now I know I'm not giving anyone mis-information ;D
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Things not quite going to plan...... ::)
Collected the 3 bulldog plecs and 3 panda garra from store last weekend. Unfortunately the hillstream loaches had not survived at the store.
I've ordered 10 sewellia lineolata, 8 stiphodon semoni, and 20 rainbow shiners, but can't collect them until next weekend due to my schedule, and can't guarantee there will be 10 loaches available, just hoping they have some in their delivery next week. I might also increase the number of shiners to 30.
Collecting 7 stiphodon annieae this morning.
So much for the plans for getting everything at the same time and treating the main tank as a quarantine tank. Looks like I'll be using multiple quarantine tanks and putting the fish together some time in September. :( :P
Tank still pottering along with small amounts of ammonia, and at least the extra time is giving me more time to grow algae on rocks and in the tank. :)
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Nooooooo! Hehe, it'll be alright. Wouldn't be fishkeeping without having to shuffle things around sometimes.
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I'm getting so used to all the quarantine tanks being in use and scattered around the living room.
I don't know what I'm going to do when everything is in the correct tank and I can actually walk around the whole room again. ;D
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I don't know what I'm going to do when everything is in the correct tank and I can actually walk around the whole room again. ;D
Get another tank? ;D
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;D
I still have an empty tank in the spare bedroom.
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;D
I still have an empty tank in the spare bedroom.
Well there you go then, halfway to taking up that space already!
And what do you mean "spare bedroom"? Surely that's just begging to be a dedicated fish room.
I have a dastardly plan you see: convince you to set up lots of different themed tanks that I'm interested. Then, when I finally move off camp and into a proper house like a real grown-up I can just ask you about setting them up instead of trawling the internet myself ;)
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There are still so many fish that I would like to set up tanks for.....damn the watery world of fish for being so interesting.
;D
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Well if ever you feel like a Rainbow tank I'll be following that thread very closely.
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I won't be doing anything new until I've got everyone settled in the river tank, and I've grown the bristlenose babies large enough to go to MA. I'm quite enjoying the chaos though. ;D
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That's fine, I'm in no rush! :P
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Plans for today include draining the tank, putg the rest of the stones from the algae tanks into the main tank, and restocking the algae tanks with rocks. Any last minute rearrangements will also be made, possibly including the addition of some more wood, then refilling the tank with a mix of RO and tap water.
I have arranged to collect the remaining fish from Kesgrave Tropical tomorrow.
I'm nervous and excited as I've wanted those particular hillstream loaches for over a year, got the tank just before Christmas, and have spent months planning the tank.
;D
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Good luck, i hope it all goes to plan. :cheers:
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Good grief, it took a long time to empty the tank, put some more rocks in, and refill it.
I'm going to have to wait until one of the boys calls over later in the week to put the hood on top as it's too heavy for me to to that on my own.
I haven't switched the air pump on yet, as I'm currently monitoring the water flow to see how well the manifold is working, but I've already placed the air lines & stones at either end of the tank, but may end up putting more in. I'm also considering upgrading to a larger pump, as I'm currently not sure that the water flow is strong enough to keep the sewellia lineolata totally blown away, but it will do for now.
The plants in the slightly sheltered parts of the tank are doing ok, and two of the bucephalandra have got flower buds, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they look like.
I've not got enough rocks in the tank yet, and have more in the algae tanks by the window, but if the tank starts running low on algae for the fish I've already got the bulldog plecs, panda garra, and gobies eating the Repashy foods, which I've used to coat rocks & logs, so I can try that in the main tank as well.
Fishy shopping tomorrow. ;D
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Exciting times. :D
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I collected the fish this morning, and they are now exploring the tank.
I'll wait until tomorrow to turn the lights on and take some pictures.
Without wishing to state the obvious, the rainbow shiners are really shiny.
The cobalt blue gobies are so cute, and are hopping rock to rock sampling the algae.
The hillstream loaches are staying towards the back of the tank at the moment, possibly settling in, but a few have been spotted on the back wall of the tank, generally pottering around......oooh, one at the front of the tank...they are a fascinating shape.
;D
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Can't wait to see the photos ;D
If your stiohodons are anything like mine, they'll be a bit pale at the moment but the males should colour up in a few days.
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I'm soo jealous... :P
What temperature are you running the tank at btw?
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Loving reading about the developments and, like Sue (and no doubt others), very much looking forward to seeing the pics - and reading about any antics the fish get up to.
:fishy1:
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I'm like a kid at Christmas with this tank, possibly because I've been planning it for such a long time.
The tank looked very empty earlier, but now the hillstream loaches are exploring the rocks, along with the gobies, and between them they've already completely stripped the algae of one rock and have nearly finished another. The shiners have settled down enough to spread out, so the tank looks more full.
The larger stiphodon, which I'm guessing is older as it is quite a bit bigger, has started to get some colour, and there is a smaller one with nice markings which are darker towards the tail. I'm looking forward to putting lights on tomorrow to have a really good look.
I still have the annieae gobies in a quarantine tank, and they are quite small, but I saw 2 of them have a tussle over ownership of a small rock yesterday. The winner got the green marbled rock, which I have to admit made his red colouring look great.
The panda garra and bulldog plecs are in a different quarantine tank, and I think when everyone is in the main tank it will actually look pretty full. I'm also wondering if the annieae gobies are going to be to small to do well with the other fish, but that's a consideration for another day.
The tank is currently running at 22C.
I also used RO to drop the water from my 17dH down to 14dH, which is the hardness of the water where they were being kept. The hillstream loaches are quite sensitive little things, so I figured that anything that would make the move less stressful would help. I still can't believe I've actually got them. :fishy1:
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New fishies, yay! <º))><
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I imagine that the combination of daylight, tank lights, and a front glass covered in biofilm to encourage the fish to the front, doesn't make for the best pictures, and I certainly can't catch the iridescence on the shiners, but the gang are settling in.
I'm guessing I'll have to clean the front glass to get better pictures, but I think I'll leave it for a few days to take the opportunity to feed on it. :fishy1:
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I'm guessing I'll have to clean the front glass to get better pictures, but I think I'll leave it for a few days to take the opportunity to feed on it. :fishy1:
I know you're right "in there" with all your aquatic inhabitants but I'm getting a little concerned that you eating algae from the inside of the tank is a step (or should I say a tail swish?) too far. ;)
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:rotfl:
What can I say, I like to make sure that their environment is suitable. :))
It's been a good day and I'm finding out a lot more about what the new arrivals like. The rainbow shiners have been fine with flake, are quite active, and seem to be quite happy with the open swimming space in the tank.
After spending more than a month to grow algea on rocks, I have found that the hillstream loaches and stiphodons seem to prefer the very green stuff that settles on the rocks after just a couple of days in the algea tank, rather than the more stubborn algae on the older rocks. Unfortunately the very green alage doesn't last long, and they have stripped all the rocks I put in today. The loaches have a reputation for being quite sensitive, not travelling well on import, and being undernourished. This was why I spent so much time trying to grow algae. Luckily the people at Kesgrave Tropicals had got the fish feeding on algae wafers, and put a wafer in the tank to show me that the fish were feeding well. It looks as if the loaches now have quite a taste for wafers because I dropped one in the tank this evening and it was chaos. The wafer took ages to sink due to the water flow, then it landed in a corner but the river manifold intakes, and got wedged between some pebbles. The loaches then all tried to fit into the corner at the same time to get to the wafer. I tried to take a pic, but they are still quite nervous about me getting close to them with the laptop.
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I feed algae wafers to my stiphodons. I discovered that the dominant male chased the others away from it, so I now break it up into small pieces, soak it till the bits sink then use a pipette to squirt the bits at various points around the tank. If you tried this you'd have to use something a bit longer than a pipette though as the water flow would carry the bits away worse than a whole one.
I had never heard of annieae gobies so I googled them. They are gorgeous. If I'd been able to source them locally, I would have gone for them instead of the "indigo blues"
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I'd never heard of annieae gobies before either, but they got some in at MA and one of the boys told me about them. After I'd found out a bit more I decided to get them for the river tank. They are quite small, so now I'm not sure about putting them in the river tank, but they are doing well in their current tank, so plenty of time to decide.
Good idea about the algae wafers. I'm also going to try the Repashy food coated onto stones, and possibly also use the Repashy as glue to attach algae wafers to pebbles to weigh them down.
It seems to me that however much research & planning I think I've done for a tank, there is always a lot more to learn when the tank is set up and I see how the fish are using it. ::)
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The plants in the slightly sheltered parts of the tank are doing ok, and two of the bucephalandra have got flower buds, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they look like.
I noticed a flower bud on my bucephalandra maia as well this afternoon. I will show my ignorance and say I had no idea they flowered :o
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I noticed a flower bud on my bucephalandra maia as well this afternoon. I will show my ignorance and say I had no idea they flowered :o
You and me both Sue. ;D
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I'm struggling to get pics of the rainbow shiners. They are certainly very wary of phones, tablets, etc.
I still haven't cleaned the front glass either. ::)
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The gang are settling in. There is a little patch of sunlight on one part of the tank, which helps with growing algae.
The loaches are fighting over the best stones.
I can't explain what the rainbow shiners look like. In real life the colours are amazing, but when I take pictures they just look like a snazzy black neon tetra. Possibly because of the iridescence, but the colours only really show well in movement. I've only taken pics with the laptop, which isn't great, but it's as good as it gets for now. ;D
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;D
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Got a few more rocks for the river tank today. Just some minor rearranging to do (move an air stone and add some pebbles) and I think it's done. Phew, it's been quite hard work, but totally worth it to get a suitable environment for the sewellia lineolata, and to see the other fish playing in the flow. :)
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Regardless of the amount of time I spent growing algae on rocks in tanks on the windowsill, and however murky I leave the front glass rather than cleaning it, the loaches still stop squabbling over rocks to enjoy an algae wafer.
Not exactly what I expected considering what I'd read about them being difficult to feed after import, etc. but also very handy to know that they won't go without when I eventually add the panda garra and bulldog plecs.
I don't know how long these fish had been at Kesgrave Tropicals, but the people there did drop a wafer into the tank to show me that they were feeding well, which was a nice touch.
Perhaps this week I'll go wild, clean the front glass, and take some pictures to post here and perhaps send to Kesgrave as well.
The shiners go nuts for flake, and frozen daphnia. I've not tried themon anything else yet.
The gobies seem most happy eating biofilm & algae off the glass & rocks. Another reason for not cleaning the front glass is because it's so entertaining to see their little mouths going like the clappers as they feed. :)
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These updates on progress are great. This is exemplary of how fishkeeping should be ie lots of research in advance, preparing the tank(s) in line with the species' requirements, and then enjoying them thrive (in the fruits of your labour). It upsets me when I overhear folk in a LFS talking as though they're in a pick'n'mix sweet shop and seem to want to just purchase then and there whatever takes their fancy. Keep up the good work, Littlefish, and your tank inhabitants will continue to thrive accordingly. :fishy1:
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Holy crap, no...... Although I don't have any experience with the sewellia lineolata, I have read as much as I could before getting them, and expected the males to fight as shown in a previous picture (stomach to stomach, almost on end). I can only say that I have just witnessed what I can only describe as quite rough behaviour but "obviously not fighting" between a male and female. Luckily it was rudely interrupted by another male, but all I can say now is "please, no more, I can't cope". I am going to have to give all tanks a stern talking to on the grounds I can't be dealing with any hanky panky until I've dealt with the current batch of BN and dwarf puffer babies. I can't move for quarantine and baby tanks. Seriously.
@fcmf many thanks for being so kind about my progress. I enjoy researching requirements and setting up tanks. However, I feel I need to point out that I still can't be trusted at an LFS...I may not buy something straight away (apart from the betta), and I may make the effort to research & check with you guys here, but at the end of the day my sweet shop mentality is what has caused the purchase of so many tanks. That and living on my own, so not having anyone to tell me "no". :D
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I moved the airlines today, and added some more pebbles.
Apart from putting the hood on the tank (waiting for help with that), then adding the other fish at the end of their quarantine period, it's pretty much done.
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And it looks good. :)
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Thanks, and I'm enjoying watching the antics within the tank. :)
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Congrats! [ What on earth are you feeding your fish for them all to be so virile?! Viagra fish flakes/pellets? :rotfl: ]
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@fcmf I have no idea, but if I knew I'd certainly stop. :rotfl:
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Well, all fish are now in the tank, and the hood is on.
I'd previously put a lot more rocks into the tank, and have added a few more, plus a few random bits of wood which will mainly be used for the repashy food and/or swapping with rocks in the algae tank. The plants are echinodorus martii major, green and purple leaf buchephalandras, and something at the bottom that I've completely forgotten the name of.
The current inhabitants of the tank are as follows:
10 x sewellia lineolate
3 x bulldog plecs
7 x panda garra
24 x rainbow shiners
10 x cobalt blue gobies
8 x annieae gobies
9 x assassin snails
10 x amano shrimp
I had some concerns about the size of the annieae gobies, whether they would get into the filter, and whether they would struggle with some of the larger fish. I've used a small amount of coarse filter media in the filter intake to avoid that problem. As can be seen from the second picture, the small annieae gobies have no problems sharing a rock with the bulldog plecs, and aren't having any problems holding their own with the other gobies, although I will be keeping a close eye on them.
There are plenty of small spaces and hidey holes, and some of the gobies have built burrows under some of the rocks. The hillstream loaches tent to move towards the wood at the back of the tank during the night, and come out during the day. Perhaps I'll be able to get some pics when I feed them later today.
So far it's turning out to be a very active tank. I was slightly concerned that it would look a bit empty with so many bottom feeders, but so many of them feed up the sides of the tank, and occasionally swim mid-water, that the tank looks full. :)
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:)
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Wow, what a tank :cheers:
I love all those different stones. Yes, stiphodons do like to bury themselves and tunnel under things as i have discovered.
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Thanks @Sue
There was a very funny moment earlier. The biggest cobalt blue goby has made his burrow under the largest stone at the front of the tank, closest to the flow of the manifold. He was out and about, and one of the annieae gobies went in. There was a minor chase when he got back to his burrow, but no contact, and things settled down quickly.
Some of the other annieaes found another burrow further along the tank, and took that over. It was so cute to see 3 little faces peeking out in a row. Since then they seem to have found their feet/fins, and considering they are the smallest fish, and were the last ones in, they have settled very quickly. ;D
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Great tank :))
I have a massive case of Goby jealousy ::)
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Wow; great tank and great fish.
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Another fantastic tank! I wish I could see these live as I bet they're a joy to behold.
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Thanks all. :)
I'm very pleased with this tank, possibly because I've been planning it for so long and now it's finally up and running.
It is a very active tank, and has the largest number of different species (the joys of a larger tank), so it's very interesting to watch. I've pretty much made a permanent home in the arm chair next to this tank. ;D
At some point I will try to get a video of feeding time.
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The past 48 hours have been a bit stressful. Obviously I've made a mistake somewhere and I'm hoping that you guys can help me to work out what I've done wrong. Apologies in advance for the long/rambling message, but I'm hoping that the more information I provide, the easier it will be for you to help.
The river tank has been ok, but the more I've watch the way the fish use the environment the more I realised that a few changes needed to be made. I set up the tank with a Fluval FX4, a Superfish airflow 4, and a Jecod DCP 4000 on the river manifold.
To help with the flow direction I decided that all airstones should be moved to the end of the tank with the outflow, and that a larger filter would help create even more flow. The guys at the store asked why I wanted a larger filter, so I told them I wanted it to "blow their bl**dy fins off", without attempting any sort of impression of Micheal Caine, but imagining the fish driving around the tank in little Minis and humming the appropriate theme tune. All staff way too young to understand the phrase used, but I purchased an FX6 thinking it would be an easy replacement.
I did my routine tank maintenence and 10% water change on Sunday morning, and changed the filter. All pipework remained in place, the media & baskets from the FX4 were rinsed in tank water and placed into the FX6. New sponge media and rinsed Alphagrog media were used in the 3rd basket & put into the FX6. Everything was put together with the pipework still in the tank/cabinet, and it was all systems go.
I thought my tank cleaning was fairly decent, but when the FX6 was switched on it seemed to kick up a lot of rubbish into the water, which I guessed was stuff I hadn't been able to reach with the syphon, and which wasn't shifted by the flow of the FX4. Surely that's a good thing, I thought, as at least it is now being filtered. However, I was concerned by the amount of rubbish, so also tried to help by using my other syphon in the tank, which sucks up rubbish but returns the water to the tank rather than removing it (as I'd done a water change less than an hour earlier).
I also cleaned the large sponges on the manifold intakes, hoping that they would also help capture some of the rubbish, even though it is not a particularly fine sponge. At that point I realised that there was no flow on the manifold, so traced back the cables to find that one had come out, so it was off. I connected it and switched it back on again, only to be faced with another plume of crud entering the tank water.
At this point I was very concerned. I chased the largest pieces of crud with the syphon, then decided to do another 10% water change, and put sone fine filter floss on on part of the filter outflow. After doing this I waited an hour or so to see if things started to clear up, but could see that the fish were distressed. Most of them (especially the gobies) were at/near the surface. I did a quick water test, and the results did not indicate an obvious issue (0, 0, <40 as usual), so I guessed it was the amount of rubbish in the water, but was also concerned about oxygen levels because some of the fish were huddled in the flow fron the airstones. I did a 30% water change, and switched the lights off.
Most of the fish seemed to be starting to settle over the hour following the large water change, so I then went to bed. I woke at around 4am, and couldn't get back to sleep, so went to have a look at the tank. I didn;t switch lights on, just used my phone, and could see the outline of several fish in their usual places on the glass, not near the surface, so I went back to bed.
When I got up this morning I checked the tank. Although the water was clearer than yesterday, it still seemed a bit cloudy, the gobies were still near the surface, and I had lost 1 rainbow shiner and 1 assassin snail.
I have done another 30% water change with my usual mix of dechlorinated tap water/RO. The fish still seem a little unsettled, with one of the bulldog plecs, a couple of hillsteam loaches and a couple of gobies still near the flow from the airstones. The rest of the fish and amano shrimp are amonst the wood & stones, with only the most dominant plec, 2 panda garras and the rainbow shiners out in the open.
I'm going to put some fine filter floss on one of the filter outputs to help with fine particles. I'm also going to put some carbon in the tank as well. I haven't used any plant fertiliser or carbon in the tank for 3 days, and the dechlorinator I'm using is the Aquacare tap water conditioner. Water temperture is 20C, and I'm keeping the lighting relatively low (only 1 set of lights on, rather than all 3).
Apart from continuing with daily water changes, what else can I do?
Is there anything else that I can/should be testing for at this point?
I'm guessing that all the problems have been due to the particles in the water, rather than chemicals/toxins, but any suggestions and/or advice are very welcome.
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It is difficult to know what to suggest.
How clean is the inside of all the tubing involved, do you clean them all regularly? I know that people with externals mention clouds of debris when they turn the filter off and then on again, and the usual response is that the tubes need cleaning because when the filter is turned back on the sudden new rush of water dislodges things stuck to the insides of the pipes. With you just creating a faster flow down the tubing, could it have dislodged anything?
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@Littlefish It doesn't fix any underling issues but you could all a floculator (API have one that is called ACCU Clear) this will help the particles clump and fall out of the water column or get caught by the filter. The long term fix would probably to find a permanent home for some filter floss that is more accessible to change than the FX6
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@Sue it could have been particles dislodged from the pipework, but the quantity of crap floating around was more than would be expected just from that, which is why I thought the FX6 might have kicked up muck that I hadn't been able to reach with the syphon or the flow of the FX4.
Some of the pipework (the straight stuff) gets cleaned, and some (the ridged stuff) doesn't as it would involve completely removing it from down the back of the tank & cabinet.
The river manifold stopping didn't help either, and that just added to the muck floating around the water.
Am I correct in thinking that it was mainly the particles in the water that caused the demise of the fish & snail? All the larger particles have now been filtered and/or water changed out, and I am currently using carbon to deal with anything I can't test for, and filter floss to deal with the small particles. These are currently in a sperate internal filter that I've put into the tank.
I have switched off all light, apart from the blue light, and the fish are slowly settling down.
@Andy The Minion I was considering trying to fit in the extra set of pipework to run the FX4 as well as the FX6 in the tank - not only because more flow in the river tank might not be a bad thing, but also for the mechanical filtration it could provide. Otherwise I could just use some of the spare internal filters that I have for filter floss, which may be slightly easier to change.
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I think it is one of those things that we'll never know for sure. As you say, the muck could have contained something we can't test for that could affect fish. The only thing I can suggest is water changes, and lots of filter floss to try to trap the fine bits, which you are already doing.
Be careful with anti floccullents as they can harm the fish.
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I don't have any anti flocculent here, so will be sticking with the floss for the fine particles for now.
I have a few spare internal filters in the cupboard that I can use for more floss, so I'll get those up and running.
Even if the particles didn't contain anything nasty, I think it's possible that even having the particles in the water with fish that need completely clear water could have caused a problem.
Currently there are no fish at the surface, which I'm taking as a good sign, and I'll go back to slightly smaller daily water changes (50L instead of 100L) because I think the big water changes may have stressed the fish out, even though they were necessarry.
I'm a bit cross with myself for what has happened, I should have cleaned the pipework etc, before installing the FX6, but I'm also relieved that I had enough RO, carbon and floss to deal with the worst of it.
Sheesh, my heart rate is still recovering from the panic.
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On checking the tank this morning I found that I had lost another rainbow shiner and an annieae goby.
I then performed a water change.
I had a few problems with the filter, as I tried to stuff too much carbon into it, so it didn't close properly and ran noisily. I had to faff around for quite a while to get things back to normal with the filter.
The fish seemed ok during the day, but were not interested in any food this evening.
Having just checked the tank I have now lost another 3 gobies and 3 rainbow shiners.
The rest are not looking good, and the other fish are hiding at the back of the tank.
I'm devastated.
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Oh no. I just don't know what to say ..... :'(
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Apologies for not being able to reply before now. I've read through the posts carefully and it seems such an incredibly undeserving case of terrible misfortune. I don't think there's anything more that I can add to your own thoughts and others', and you're doing your utmost and everything I would advise. I can only keep everything incredibly tightly crossed that this settles ASAP.
Afterthought: presumably none of the other tanks would be suitable (temp/tankmate compatibility, etc) to temporarily house any of the remaining fish..?
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Unfortunately there have been more deaths overnight. 2 more rainbow shiners have perished.
I'm going to head to the fish store to get more RO. I have an empty Fluval Roma 200 in the hallway, so I'm going to set that up with the FX4 pump, and transfer the fish to that. It's much smaller than they are used to, but probably better than leaving them where they are. That will then give me the opportunity to completely strip down the Aqua Oak and start again. I also have another tank available in the spare bedroom downstairs, but that is currently full of wood that is soaking prior to use, so a bit more difficult to set that one up for them, but it is there if I need it.
It means transfering the fish from a mature tank to a new set up, but at least I know that the fish will eat things like courgette, and the Repashy foods, so they (hopefully) wont miss the biofilm & algae in the tank.
I'm concerned that moving them will stress them further, but I'm not sure what else I can do to recover the situation.
:(
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I think that moving them is the lesser of two evils. Something nasty has happened to their tank so a new tank and uncontaminated water is the better option even if it is not perfect.
I do not know what could have happened to this tank. Debris from the filter/pipes should not kill fish. I hope you can find out what happened.
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Moving the fish is the lesser of two evils, and it will also give me the opportunity to investigate the tank whilst stripping it down.
Whatever has happened is not something I can test for. The water is giving results of 0, 0, <40 (tap is 40) every time.
I'm just keeping my fingers crossed now that those of us in the household that are still alive & functioning make it thrugh the rest of the day.
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It's been a busy day.
Rather than move the fish to the 200L tanks, I moved the wood that was soaking in the 4ft Aqua Oak tank in the spare bedroom, cleaned the tank & used that.
I've have spent many hours rinsing new sand & rocks from my stash of tank stuff, and draining the river tank to a point that I could actually try to catch fish. I didn't want to disturb the substrate any more than necessary, but I had to remove the plants.
The following have been transferred to the other tank:-
3 bull dog plecs
7 panda garras
8 rainbow shiners
9 hillsteam loaches
8 gobies
6 amano shrimp
2 assassin snails
I knew I'd lost a lot of rainbow shiners, and now only have 8 from the original 24.
As for the gobies, originally I had 10 cobalt blue and 8 annieae. At this point the 8 that have been transferred to the other tank are so pale that they are difficult to identify.
I still have all of my bull dog plecs and panda garras, and have lost only 1 hillstream loach.
There is still some movement in the main tank (I've already had to stop typing once to catch more fish), and I've always been particularly rubbish at finding/catching shrimp, so I'm stopping for a break before I remove more water from the tank and have another go at locating any remaining signs of life in the tank.
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The fact that you still have shrimps is a good sign. They are usually less tolerant of chemical 'pollution' than fish - and that includes everything from ammonia to metal contamination.
At any time since this happened, have you seen any shrimps trying to climb out of the tank, usually up cables, filter tubing etc? This is often the first sign that a tank's water has become a bit iffy and if you didn't see them climbing, it eliminates some causes.
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You're doing everything that you possibly can in what is such a sad situation.
In an effort to help get to the root cause, aside from some sort of chemical pollution, is there any possibility that the FX6 might have been too strong and potentially a cause or contributor? A couple of years ago, when I transferred my 3 remaining ailing pygmy cories into the QT, their demise was dramatic/sudden and swift albeit they were weak to begin with; it struck me too late that the filter I was using in the QT was far too strong, even on its gentlest setting, and they were getting buffeted around and thereby unable to rectify their swimming position while one sought refuge on the filter bracket - I tried switching the filter off for a while but by then it was too late. At the time, I did find an article which indicated that fish could 'drown' albeit rarely / gas bubble disease could form. Others (esp Sue) may know more and have a view on this? It might be worth getting her/others' views on this, just to be certain whether resuming the FX6's use in due course would be fine or potentially best avoided.
I really hope the situation settles and the remaining inhabitants show signs of improvement in their new tank.
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@Sue I hadn't noticed any of the shrimp trying to climb out of the tank over the past few days. The tank is next to the armchair that I normally use in the evenings, and I've been watching the tank closely, so I hope that I would have noticed.
Just had to briefly stop typing to transfer another goby to the other tank.
@fcmf that is something that I had wondered about. Although they are all river fish, and generally require quite a bit of water movement, most of the fish were hiding in low flow areas. The fish that had the most problems were the rainbow shiners, which are the only fish in the tank that actually swim mid water, and the gobies, which are all tiny in comparrison to the other fish. The gobies also congregated near the surface, which I hadn't seen them do before. Does that indicate anything in particular with regards to the flow being too strong? I guess another option with the FX6 in the future is to use a wider nozzle or a spray bar on the output, to spread the flow. Or just get rid of that filter.
Just going to have another look at the tank for more signs of life before heading to bed.
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@Littlefish my first thought would be that this is unlikely, unless you chose completely unsuited fish (and I completely don't believe that) the flowsrates that are possible in a tank will never reach river flows. At best rou might be able to achieve these only as the water leaves the manifold and the average will be relatly small with areas of little flow mid tank somewhere in the water column. If that were the problem I'm sure the fish would find them and settle there. You could look at the flow rates using an airline attached to a stick and watch for the bubble flow pattern across the tank in various places down the tank to put your mind at rest?
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So far 1 goby has not survived the transfer to the other tank. I haven't been able to have a thorough look at that tank because it doesn't have any lights on it, but just using the daylight in that room I'd say that the fish that I can see are doing ok.
There is still at least 1 shrimp in the river tank. I tried to catch it last night but it hid under the overhang of a rock and was being quite elusive. I'm going to start removing the rocks & pebbles in that tank today, which should make it easier to get to the shrimp, and see if anything else is still in the tank.
Any suggestions, ideas, comments and questions which may help me to get to the bottom of the problems and ensure that I rebuild a more suitable environment for the remaining fish will be very welcome.
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No dead fish in the new tank this morning. The rainbow shiners are quite active, but most other fish are still hiding. I think that this is possibly due to the lack of shiners mid-water, and I'm hoping that getting some plants for the surface/bunches of elodea attached to suckers on the sides of the tank will create more cover and encourage the fish out of hiding, if only for long enough for them to eat.
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Hope all is still well since your update Littlefish. Do you have a plan regarding the old tank yet? I'm assuming a full strip down is in order!?
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I've put some plants into the temporary tank and some of the fish have started to explore.
I plan to completely strip down the river tank, clean everything (including the hoses & pipes), and set it up again. I'll probably make some minor alterations to make things easier to clean as well.
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The exploring is a good sign that they are recovering and starting to settle into their temporary home. A total clean out is a good idea. It should give a clue as to what happened.
Fingers crossed the fish continue to make progress.
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I've lost another annieae goby overnight, but the rest of the fish seem ok, and the water parameters are fine.
I've been to the local MA to see if they had any further ideas on what could have gone wrong. They said the same as has been discussed here, and the manager talked me through their systems to give me some ideas on how to change the river manifold to include an extra hose & tap to be able to flush the system to waste and ensure that it is cleaned on a regular basis.
Stripping down the tank, making the changes to the manifold, and setting the tank up again is going to take a while. It's quite a complex system and althought I took a long time researching the set up originally, considering I've only been keeping fish for around 2 years, I still think I may have over-stretched myself with that particular tank. I'm kicking myself that the fish have suffered for my lack of experience, and am determined to ensure that the new set up provides the fish with a better environment.
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Just a quick update on the temporary tank - the fish are finding their feet (fins) in the tank.
The remaining shiners were very keen on thier flake today, which was a relief.
Yesterday the other fish didn't go wild for their courgette, so today I tried cucumber, which had been more favoured in the past. I have seen several panda garras and a couple of plecs feeding, and a number of hillstream loaches have fed. I've just had another check on the tank and seen one of the plecs resting in the open on a large stone, a few pandas and gobies near some of the rocks & logs, loaches on the glass and cucmber, and the shrimp are quite active.
After so much bad news in the past week, I thought I'd post some more positive news now that the fish seem to be settling down and colouring up again.
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That must be such a relief for you :) It is so hard to watch fish die and feel helpless to do anything to stop it.
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A great relief to see the remaining fish looking perky. :)
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Great to read this better news. :cheers:
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How are things doing @Littlefish ?
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The fish are still in their temporary tank. I've tested the water and the results are 0, 0, <40, same as always, but they don't seem to be feeding as well as they used to. Perhaps they still need more plants & cover to make up for the depleted number of mid-water swimmers, even though they have a lot more cover in this tank that the other one.
It's been a week since I had to relocate them, and although I've had no further deaths, the fish just don't seem to be themselves. I'm a little concerned. The temperature is 19C, there is plenty of oxygen (4 port air pump & airstones), and the original fx4 is running with the new hoses from the fx6 box. Most of the fish are out and resting on stones or attached to the glass, and the remaining rainbow shiners have some lovely blue colouring at the moment, but the algae eaters mainly ignored their courgette on Tuesday evening, and have been the same with Repashy coated wood & rocks yesterday and today. They used to go nuts for the Repashy food, but not now. :-\
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Sorry to read about this. It sounds as though they had quite a shock / high level of stress and it will probably take some time for any level of normality to resume; the considerable depletion of numbers is no doubt contributing to this.
I mentioned recently about how garlic-infused food helped restore the appetite of my ill fish and how food which was previously unpopular became popular simply through garlic being in it - this might be worth a try in your case?
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Agree that the shiners will benefit from more numbers and the other fish will appreciate them too. Not sure if the other fish need company as such?
Mosy likely you will want to have the main tank set up again first though... maybe a slow reintroduction of fish species by species may be required to be on the safe side?
I'm struggling to offer any more advice or thoughts im afraid...
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The shiners have had some frozen brine shrimp with garlic, and that seemed to be appreciated.
As for the algae eaters, I'm going to have another go with cucmber tomorrow and see what happens.
I've gone with with more decor & plants in the temporary tank, to make up for the lack of shiners. I won't be increasing numbers of anything for quite a while.
Perhaps I should just be grateful that all fish have survived in the temporary tank, but it would be lovely to see them all crowding onto the repashy logs together again.
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Long time no update here, so I thought I'd let you know what is happening at the moment.
All the fish in the temporary tank are doing well, are settled, and feeding well.
Over the past couple of days I've removed the rest of the sand from the main tank, and removed the river manifold. The manifold was hurled into the back garden in disgust, and the removal of the associated tubing & pump nearly made me sick. I've cleaned the tubing, and pump. It was all quite grim, and I found a dead assassin snail in the pump :sick:
Although I had filter sponge on the intake, somehow the snail had got in, and probably explains the smell when I took everything apart. I don't know if this would have had any impact on the river tank disaster last year.
@Andy The Minion has been kind enough to provide some diagrams of a different set up for the pump/manifold, and now that the tank is empty I'm going to spend some time trying a simplified set up, based on a combination of the information AtM provided, and some ideas on how I can have it set up so I can remove the pump hoses/intake/etc. for cleaning on a regular basis. This means I won't be rebuilding the manifold I previously had, which sat under the sand, but it may take me a while to work out exactly what I can do. The ideas are floating around in my head, I just need to have a few practice sessions in the tank while it's empty. I plan to use the pump to create flow near the bottom of the tank, then 2 external filters for the middle and surface flow.
In the past few months I've been purchasing more of the yangste rock from Aquarium gardens. I saw it while the main tank was still set up, bought a couple of pieces and put them in. Unfortunately this made the other stones I had look quite dull and unnatural, so as part of my always steep learning curve I'm using the disaster last year as an opportunity to try to make the river tank better.
Without a manifold under the substrate I should also be able to get away with a lower level of sand, which should help to avoid any build up of anaerobic bacteria, which always concerned me.
I still have the bucephalandra attached to wood, and I'll probably just use root tabs of the echinodorus martii major when that goes back in.
Time for a glass of wine while I contemplate the pump/simplified manifold set up. :)
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The reworking of the river tank has started.
The tank is empty & clean (the house has stopped smelling of white vinegar & lemon juice).
I got some pipe from MA, who kindly sold me some off cuts from their new coral display tank for a very reasonable price. The pipe is a larger diameter than the pipe used for the previous under-sand manifold, and the pipe is grey (rather than white) which should be less obvious.
I've picked up some connectors at another LFS today, and got some hose clamps online (I was always worried about the loaches & plecs cutting themselves on the standard metal clamps).
This river manifold is going to be above the substrate, much simpler than the previous one, but still have the pump in the cabinet rather than in the tank.
I need to get hold of some end caps for the pieces of pipe I cut this evening, as they are going to be the in and out flow (with the addition of some drilled holes). I've already checked the multiple LFS, and no joy, so it looks as if I'll have to take a drive to one slightly further afield - what a massive shame having to take a trip to another shop ;)
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It sounds like quite a project! I'm sure it will be super rewarding once you have it all up and running :))
I'm trying to rack my brains for what could be used instead of an end cap... though the best I've come up with so far is to look through plumbing supplies shops or catalogues.
Keep those photos coming!!
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A quick update on this.
I've been very busy with this tank over the past few weeks.
One of my happiest moments was finding the most awesome things that I could use as end caps for the pipes being used for intake and outflow. They were inspection caps that I found in the plumbing section of B&Q (other DIY stores are available), and they have screw caps! Imagine my joy when I realised that I could unscrew the ends of the pipes to clean the whole thing thoroughly ;D The pipes have suckers to attach them to the ends of the tanks, so everything can be taken out to be cleaned easily, and the screw caps were perfect.
It's taken me a long time to get things sorted, including leaks. :-[
The sand substrate is in the tank, and this week I filled the tank with water to check the manifold, and so I could dump the hardscaping into the tank to make some more space in the other tank I've been using to soak wood.
I am currently sitting down, chuckling to myself, realising that I'm a complete muppet that shouldn't be allowed to have tank/pumps/anything really.
One large piece of wood that I had in the previous version of this tank is taking a while to sink, so is weighed down by some of the new stone I bought. I turned the pump on to check the flow of the manifold before I have a think about draining the tank to work on the hardscaping. The wood/rock was partially in the way of the outflow, which caused the high flow rate to blow all the other pieces of wood along the tank, disturb the substrate, and cover everything in sand. :-[ :rotfl:
Sheesh, will I ever learn. ::)
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It was a big day in the Littlefish household today - after several weeks rearranging decor, the fish have finally been transferred back to their main tank.
It took approximately 4 hours, and I was way more stressed than the fish, who all seem to have settled very quickly into their re-worked set up.
It will take a couple of months for the echnidorus martii major to grow in, so I've thrown some elodea into the tank for cover, and I may put some more bucephalandra in.
I still have a batch of rainbow shiners in a quarantine tank, as I only picked them up from Kesgrave Tropicals a few weeks ago, but they are doing well and should be ready to go into the main tank towards the end of the week.
Hopefully I should be able to post some pics tomorrow. :)
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Oooh - thanks for the update. This sounds great and glad that the fish are now back (and, even better, quickly settled) in their main tank. Glad also that the rainbow shiners are doing well. :fishy1:
Looking forward to seeing the pics tomorrow / later in the week. ;D
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When I set up the river tank for the first time last year I got a shoal of rainbow shiners, which I was happy with. At the time I described them as being like rather snazzy black neon tetras, as they were basically silver with a darker line, but showed lovely, shimmering colours when they moved and caught the light, which was very difficult to capture a picture of.
Well, I was wrong about them. After the disaster with the tank last year, the remaining shiners have matured to show the most amazing colours. They are still very active swimmers, hence the very blurred pictured attached, which I managed to get after moving them yesterday. As you can (kind of) see, they have turned into what can only be described as disco fish.
The new batch that I collected a couple of weeks ago, which are still in the quarantine tank, still look like black neons, so I'm expecting them to mature into technicoloured disco fish later this year. :)
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Wow, they are gorgeous now :)
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technicoloured disco fish
:o
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I have just moved the 14 juvenile rainbow shiners from the quarantine tank to the main river tank. Although they are still quite small they seem to be fine and are shoaling with the mature shiners.
Tomorrow I hope to collect the annieae gobies from the LFS, to increase the numbers of those fish as well. :)
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Pleased to read that the juveniles are shoaling with their elders.
Hope all goes well tomorrow with your new goby additions.
:fishy1:
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Can't wait to see more pics Donna... :)
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Hope all has gone well @Littlefish ?
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So far so good. All fish in the main tank seem to be doing well, and have completely decimated their Repashy coated log for dinner.
I just need to attach some more lights to the hood before I can put it on the tank.
I also collected 5 annieae gobies and 7 blue neon gobies from the local MA yesterday, so they are currently in quarantine, but have had a bash at a slice of cucumber and an algae wafer today. :)
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The little Gobies are such lovely fish... :)
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The little Gobies are such lovely fish... :)
Can't agree more... I am always surprised with how active and boisterous they can be though... anyone else think this?
Really happy everyone seems to be settling in well to their new tank... and can't wait for the photos you will of course be posting Littlefish :isay:
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I promise that I will be posting pics as soon as I get all the lights & hood sorted. Apologies for the delay, putting the hood onto the tank is a 2 person job. :-[
As for the gobies, I agree with everything said, and am also amazed that the annieae gobies, which are the smallest fish in the tank, are so forward. They have a lot of personality for their size, and I'm looking forward to the rest of them completing their quarantine period and getting them into the main tank with the others. :)