Setting Up A River Tank - Littlefish

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2017, 09:32:26 PM »
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It's been a busy day.
Rather than move the fish to the 200L tanks, I moved the wood that was soaking in the 4ft Aqua Oak tank in the spare bedroom, cleaned the tank & used that.
I've have spent many hours rinsing new sand & rocks from my stash of tank stuff, and draining the river tank to a point that I could actually try to catch fish. I didn't want to disturb the substrate any more than necessary, but I had to remove the plants.
The following have been transferred to the other tank:-
3 bull dog plecs
7 panda garras
8 rainbow shiners
9 hillsteam loaches
8 gobies
6 amano shrimp
2 assassin snails

I knew I'd lost a lot of rainbow shiners, and now only have 8 from the original 24.
As for the gobies, originally I had 10 cobalt blue and 8 annieae. At this point the 8 that have been transferred to the other tank are so pale that they are difficult to identify.
I still have all of my bull dog plecs and panda garras, and have lost only 1 hillstream loach.
There is still some movement in the main tank (I've already had to stop typing once to catch more fish), and I've always been particularly rubbish at finding/catching shrimp, so I'm stopping for a break before I remove more water from the tank and have another go at locating any remaining signs of life in the tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2017, 09:42:50 PM »
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The fact that you still have shrimps is a good sign. They are usually less tolerant of chemical 'pollution' than fish - and that includes everything from ammonia to metal contamination.
At any time since this happened, have you seen any shrimps trying to climb out of the tank, usually up cables, filter tubing etc? This is often the first sign that a tank's water has become a bit iffy and if you didn't see them climbing, it eliminates some causes.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2017, 10:44:52 PM »
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You're doing everything that you possibly can in what is such a sad situation.

In an effort to help get to the root cause, aside from some sort of chemical pollution, is there any possibility that the FX6 might have been too strong and potentially a cause or contributor? A couple of years ago, when I transferred my 3 remaining ailing pygmy cories into the QT, their demise was dramatic/sudden and swift albeit they were weak to begin with; it struck me too late that the filter I was using in the QT was far too strong, even on its gentlest setting, and they were getting buffeted around and thereby unable to rectify their swimming position while one sought refuge on the filter bracket - I tried switching the filter off for a while but by then it was too late. At the time, I did find an article which indicated that fish could 'drown' albeit rarely / gas bubble disease could form. Others (esp Sue) may know more and have a view on this? It might be worth getting her/others' views on this, just to be certain whether resuming the FX6's use in due course would be fine or potentially best avoided.

I really hope the situation settles and the remaining inhabitants show signs of improvement in their new tank.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2017, 11:10:18 PM »
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@Sue I hadn't noticed any of the shrimp trying to climb out of the tank over the past few days. The tank is next to the armchair that I normally use in the evenings, and I've been watching the tank closely, so I hope that I would have noticed.

Just had to briefly stop typing to transfer another goby to the other tank.

@fcmf that is something that I had wondered about. Although they are all river fish, and generally require quite a bit of water movement, most of the fish were hiding in low flow areas. The fish that had the most problems were the rainbow shiners, which are the only fish in the tank that actually swim mid water, and the gobies, which are all tiny in comparrison to the other fish. The gobies also congregated near the surface, which I hadn't seen them do before. Does that indicate anything in particular with regards to the flow being too strong? I guess another option with the FX6 in the future is to use a wider nozzle or a spray bar on the output, to spread the flow. Or just get rid of that filter.

Just going to have another look at the tank for more signs of life before heading to bed.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #124 on: October 26, 2017, 04:46:03 AM »
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@Littlefish my first thought would be that this is unlikely, unless you chose completely unsuited fish (and I completely don't believe that) the flowsrates that are possible in a tank will never reach river flows. At best rou might be able to achieve these only as the water leaves the manifold and the average will be relatly small with areas of little flow mid tank somewhere in the water column. If that were the problem I'm sure the fish would find them and settle there. You could look at the flow rates using an airline attached to a stick and watch for the bubble flow pattern across the tank in various places down the tank to put your mind at rest?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2017, 09:11:39 AM »
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So far 1 goby has not survived the transfer to the other tank. I haven't been able to have a thorough look at that tank because it doesn't have any lights on it, but just using the daylight in that room I'd say that the fish that I can see are doing ok.
There is still at least 1 shrimp in the river tank. I tried to catch it last night but it hid under the overhang of a rock and was being quite elusive. I'm going to start removing the rocks & pebbles in that tank today, which should make it easier to get to the shrimp, and see if anything else is still in the tank.
Any suggestions, ideas, comments and questions which may help me to get to the bottom of the problems and ensure that I rebuild a more suitable environment for the remaining fish will be very welcome.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #126 on: October 27, 2017, 10:21:11 AM »
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No dead fish in the new tank this morning. The rainbow shiners are quite active, but most other fish are still hiding. I think that this is possibly due to the lack of shiners mid-water, and I'm hoping that getting some plants for the surface/bunches of elodea attached to suckers on the sides of the tank will create more cover and encourage the fish out of hiding, if only for long enough for them to eat.

Offline Matt

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #127 on: October 27, 2017, 06:40:33 PM »
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Hope all is still well since your update Littlefish.  Do you have a plan regarding the old tank yet? I'm assuming a full strip down is in order!?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #128 on: October 27, 2017, 11:01:15 PM »
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I've put some plants into the temporary tank and some of the fish have started to explore.
I plan to completely strip down the river tank, clean everything (including the hoses & pipes), and set it up again. I'll probably make some minor alterations to make things easier to clean as well.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #129 on: October 28, 2017, 09:27:43 AM »
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The exploring is a good sign that they are recovering and starting to settle into their temporary home. A total clean out is a good idea. It should give a clue as to what happened.

Fingers crossed the fish continue to make progress.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2017, 11:53:03 AM »
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I've lost another annieae goby overnight, but the rest of the fish seem ok, and the water parameters are fine.
I've been to the local MA to see if they had any further ideas on what could have gone wrong. They said the same as has been discussed here, and the manager talked me through their systems to give me some ideas on how to change the river manifold to include an extra hose & tap to be able to flush the system to waste and ensure that it is cleaned on a regular basis.
Stripping down the tank, making the changes to the manifold, and setting the tank up again is going to take a while. It's quite a complex system and althought I took a long time researching the set up originally, considering I've only been keeping fish for around 2 years, I still think I may have over-stretched myself with that particular tank. I'm kicking myself that the fish have suffered for my lack of experience, and am determined to ensure that the new set up provides the fish with a better environment.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2017, 09:25:09 PM »
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Just a quick update on the temporary tank - the fish are finding their feet (fins) in the tank.
The remaining shiners were very keen on thier flake today, which was a relief.
Yesterday the other fish didn't go wild for their courgette, so today I tried cucumber, which had been more favoured in the past. I have seen several panda garras and a couple of plecs feeding, and a number of hillstream loaches have fed. I've just had another check on the tank and seen one of the plecs resting in the open on a large stone, a few pandas and gobies near some of the rocks & logs, loaches on the glass and cucmber, and the shrimp are quite active.
After so much bad news in the past week, I thought I'd post some more positive news now that the fish seem to be settling down and colouring up again.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2017, 09:32:30 PM »
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That must be such a relief for you  :) It is so hard to watch fish die and feel helpless to do anything to stop it.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2017, 09:23:27 AM »
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A great relief to see the remaining fish looking perky.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2017, 10:09:55 AM »
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Great to read this better news.  :cheers:

Offline Matt

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2017, 09:57:05 PM »
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How are things doing @Littlefish ?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #136 on: November 02, 2017, 01:08:32 PM »
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The fish are still in their temporary tank. I've tested the water and the results are 0, 0, <40, same as always, but they don't seem to be feeding as well as they used to. Perhaps they still need more plants & cover to make up for the depleted number of mid-water swimmers, even though they have a lot more cover in this tank that the other one.
It's been a week since I had to relocate them, and although I've had no further deaths, the fish just don't seem to be themselves. I'm a little concerned. The temperature is 19C, there is plenty of oxygen (4 port air pump & airstones), and the original fx4 is running with the new hoses from the fx6 box. Most of the fish are out and resting on stones or attached to the glass, and the remaining rainbow shiners have some lovely blue colouring at the moment, but the algae eaters mainly ignored their courgette on Tuesday evening, and have been the same with Repashy coated wood & rocks yesterday and today. They used to go nuts for the Repashy food, but not now.  :-\

Offline fcmf

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #137 on: November 02, 2017, 06:04:18 PM »
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Sorry to read about this. It sounds as though they had quite a shock / high level of stress and it will probably take some time for any level of normality to resume; the considerable depletion of numbers is no doubt contributing to this.

I mentioned recently about how garlic-infused food helped restore the appetite of my ill fish and how food which was previously unpopular became popular simply through garlic being in it - this might be worth a try in your case?

Offline Matt

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #138 on: November 02, 2017, 08:29:56 PM »
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Agree that the shiners will benefit from more numbers and the other fish will appreciate them too.  Not sure if the other fish need company as such?

Mosy likely you will want to have the main tank set up again first though... maybe a slow reintroduction of fish species by species may be required to be on the safe side?

I'm struggling to offer any more advice or thoughts im afraid...

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #139 on: November 02, 2017, 09:18:10 PM »
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The shiners have had some frozen brine shrimp with garlic, and that seemed to be appreciated.
As for the algae eaters, I'm going to have another go with cucmber tomorrow and see what happens.
I've gone with with more decor & plants in the temporary tank, to make up for the lack of shiners. I won't be increasing numbers of anything for quite a while.
Perhaps I should just be grateful that all fish have survived in the temporary tank, but it would be lovely to see them all crowding onto the repashy logs together again.

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