Setting Up A River Tank - Littlefish

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2017, 10:10:42 AM »
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Well, all fish are now in the tank, and the hood is on.
I'd previously put a lot more rocks into the tank, and have added a few more, plus a few random bits of wood which will mainly be used for the repashy food and/or swapping with rocks in the algae tank. The plants are echinodorus martii major, green and purple leaf buchephalandras, and something at the bottom that I've completely forgotten the name of.
The current inhabitants of the tank are as follows:
10 x sewellia lineolate
3 x bulldog plecs
7 x panda garra
24 x rainbow shiners
10 x cobalt blue gobies
8 x annieae gobies
9 x assassin snails
10 x amano shrimp
I had some concerns about the size of the annieae gobies, whether they would get into the filter, and whether they would struggle with some of the larger fish. I've used a small amount of coarse filter media in the filter intake to avoid that problem. As can be seen from the second picture, the small annieae gobies have no problems sharing a rock with the bulldog plecs, and aren't having any problems holding their own with the other gobies, although I will be keeping a close eye on them.
There are plenty of small spaces and hidey holes, and some of the gobies have built burrows under some of the rocks. The hillstream loaches tent to move towards the wood at the back of the tank during the night, and come out during the day. Perhaps I'll be able to get some pics when I feed them later today.
So far it's turning out to be a very active tank. I was slightly concerned that it would look a bit empty with so many bottom feeders, but so many of them feed up the sides of the tank, and occasionally swim mid-water, that the tank looks full.  :)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2017, 10:15:38 AM »
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 :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2017, 10:24:08 AM »
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Wow, what a tank  :cheers:

I love all those different stones. Yes, stiphodons do like to bury themselves and tunnel under things as i have discovered.


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2017, 11:30:55 AM »
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Thanks @Sue
There was a very funny moment earlier. The biggest cobalt blue goby has made his burrow under the largest stone at the front of the tank, closest to the flow of the manifold. He was out and about, and one of the annieae gobies went in. There was a minor chase when he got back to his burrow, but no contact, and things settled down quickly.
Some of the other annieaes found another burrow further along the tank, and took that over. It was so cute to see 3 little faces peeking out in a row. Since then they seem to have found their feet/fins, and considering they are the smallest fish, and were the last ones in, they have settled very quickly.  ;D

Offline Matt

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2017, 01:26:52 PM »
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Great tank  :))

I have a massive case of Goby jealousy  ::)

Offline SinghRathorTari

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2017, 01:41:12 PM »
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Wow; great tank and great fish.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2017, 01:10:47 AM »
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Another fantastic tank!  I wish I could see these live as I bet they're a joy to behold.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2017, 07:57:09 AM »
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Thanks all.  :)
I'm very pleased with this tank, possibly because I've been planning it for so long and now it's finally up and running.
It is a very active tank, and has the largest number of different species (the joys of a larger tank), so it's very interesting to watch. I've pretty much made a permanent home in the arm chair next to this tank.  ;D

At some point I will try to get a video of feeding time.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2017, 12:15:33 PM »
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The past 48 hours have been a bit stressful. Obviously I've made a mistake somewhere and I'm hoping that you guys can help me to work out what I've done wrong. Apologies in advance for the long/rambling message, but I'm hoping that the more information I provide, the easier it will be for you to help.

The river tank has been ok, but the more I've watch the way the fish use the environment the more I realised that a few changes needed to be made. I set up the tank with a Fluval FX4, a Superfish airflow 4, and a Jecod DCP 4000 on the river manifold.
To help with the flow direction I decided that all airstones should be moved to the end of the tank with the outflow, and that a larger filter would help create even more flow. The guys at the store asked why I wanted a larger filter, so I told them I wanted it to "blow their bl**dy fins off", without attempting any sort of impression of Micheal Caine, but imagining the fish driving around the tank in little Minis and humming the appropriate theme tune. All staff way too young to understand the phrase used, but I purchased an FX6 thinking it would be an easy replacement.
I did my routine tank maintenence and 10% water change on Sunday morning, and changed the filter. All pipework remained in place, the media & baskets from the FX4 were rinsed in tank water and placed into the FX6. New sponge media and rinsed Alphagrog media were used in the 3rd basket & put into the FX6. Everything was put together with the pipework still in the tank/cabinet, and it was all systems go.
I thought my tank cleaning was fairly decent, but when the FX6 was switched on it seemed to kick up a lot of rubbish into the water, which I guessed was stuff I hadn't been able to reach with the syphon, and which wasn't shifted by the flow of the FX4. Surely that's a good thing, I thought, as at least it is now being filtered. However, I was concerned by the amount of rubbish, so also tried to help by using my other syphon in the tank, which sucks up rubbish but returns the water to the tank rather than removing it (as I'd done a water change less than an hour earlier).
I also cleaned the large sponges on the manifold intakes, hoping that they would also help capture some of the rubbish, even though it is not a particularly fine sponge. At that point I realised that there was no flow on the manifold, so traced back the cables to find that one had come out, so it was off. I connected it and switched it back on again, only to be faced with another plume of crud entering the tank water.
At this point I was very concerned. I chased the largest pieces of crud with the syphon, then decided to do another 10% water change, and put sone fine filter floss on on part of the filter outflow. After doing this I waited an hour or so to see if things started to clear up, but could see that the fish were distressed. Most of them (especially the gobies) were at/near the surface. I did a quick water test, and the results did not indicate an obvious issue (0, 0, <40 as usual), so I guessed it was the amount of rubbish in the water, but was also concerned about oxygen levels because some of the fish were huddled in the flow fron the airstones. I did a 30% water change, and switched the lights off.
Most of the fish seemed to be starting to settle over the hour following the large water change, so I then went to bed. I woke at around 4am, and couldn't get back to sleep, so went to have a look at the tank. I didn;t switch lights on, just used my phone, and could see the outline of several fish in their usual places on the glass, not near the surface, so I went back to bed.
When I got up this morning I checked the tank. Although the water was clearer than yesterday, it still seemed a bit cloudy, the gobies were still near the surface, and I had lost 1 rainbow shiner and 1 assassin snail.
I have done another 30% water change with my usual mix of dechlorinated tap water/RO. The fish still seem a little unsettled, with one of the bulldog plecs, a couple of hillsteam loaches and a couple of gobies still near the flow from the airstones. The rest of the fish and amano shrimp are amonst the wood & stones, with only the most dominant plec, 2 panda garras and the rainbow shiners out in the open.
I'm going to put some fine filter floss on one of the filter outputs to help with fine particles. I'm also going to put some carbon in the tank as well. I haven't used any plant fertiliser or carbon in the tank for 3 days, and the dechlorinator I'm using is the Aquacare tap water conditioner. Water temperture is 20C, and I'm keeping the lighting relatively low (only 1 set of lights on, rather than all 3).

Apart from continuing with daily water changes, what else can I do?
Is there anything else that I can/should be testing for at this point?
I'm guessing that all the problems have been due to the particles in the water, rather than chemicals/toxins, but any suggestions and/or advice are very welcome.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2017, 01:58:55 PM »
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It is difficult to know what to suggest.
How clean is the inside of all the tubing involved, do you clean them all regularly? I know that people with externals mention clouds of debris when they turn the filter off and then on again, and the usual response is that the tubes need cleaning because when the filter is turned back on the sudden new rush of water dislodges things stuck to the insides of the pipes. With you just creating a faster flow down the tubing, could it have dislodged anything?

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2017, 02:04:57 PM »
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@Littlefish It doesn't fix any underling issues but you could all a floculator (API have one that is called ACCU Clear) this will help the particles clump and fall out of the water column or get caught by the filter. The long term fix would probably to find a permanent home for some filter floss that is more accessible to change than the FX6

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2017, 02:23:02 PM »
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@Sue it could have been particles dislodged from the pipework, but the quantity of crap floating around was more than would be expected just from that, which is why I thought the FX6 might have kicked up muck that I hadn't been able to reach with the syphon or the flow of the FX4.
Some of the pipework (the straight stuff) gets cleaned, and some (the ridged stuff) doesn't as it would involve completely removing it from down the back of the tank & cabinet.
The river manifold stopping didn't help either, and that just added to the muck floating around the water.
Am I correct in thinking that it was mainly the particles in the water that caused the demise of the fish & snail? All the larger particles have now been filtered and/or water changed out, and I am currently using carbon to deal with anything I can't test for, and filter floss to deal with the small particles. These are currently in a sperate internal filter that I've put into the tank.
I have switched off all light, apart from the blue light, and the fish are slowly settling down.

@Andy The Minion I was considering trying to fit in the extra set of pipework to run the FX4 as well as the FX6 in the tank - not only because more flow in the river tank might not be a bad thing, but also for the mechanical filtration it could provide. Otherwise I could just use some of the spare internal filters that I have for filter floss, which may be slightly easier to change.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2017, 02:29:13 PM »
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I think it is one of those things that we'll never know for sure. As you say, the muck could have contained something we can't test for that could affect fish. The only thing I can suggest is water changes, and lots of filter floss to try to trap the fine bits, which you are already doing.
Be careful with anti floccullents as they can harm the fish.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2017, 02:53:53 PM »
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I don't have any anti flocculent here, so will be sticking with the floss for the fine particles for now.
I have a few spare internal filters in the cupboard that I can use for more floss, so I'll get those up and running.
Even if the particles didn't contain anything nasty, I think it's possible that even having the particles in the water with fish that need completely clear water could have caused a problem.
Currently there are no fish at the surface, which I'm taking as a good sign, and I'll go back to slightly smaller daily water changes (50L instead of 100L) because I think the big water changes may have stressed the fish out, even though they were necessarry.
I'm a bit cross with myself for what has happened, I should have cleaned the pipework etc, before installing the FX6, but I'm also relieved that I had enough RO, carbon and floss to deal with the worst of it.
Sheesh, my heart rate is still recovering from the panic.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2017, 09:38:00 PM »
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On checking the tank this morning I found that I had lost another rainbow shiner and an annieae goby.
I then performed a water change.
I had a few problems with the filter, as I tried to stuff too much carbon into it, so it didn't close properly and ran noisily. I had to faff around for quite a while to get things back to normal with the filter.
The fish seemed ok during the day, but were not interested in any food this evening.
Having just checked the tank I have now lost another 3 gobies and 3 rainbow shiners.
The rest are not looking good, and the other fish are hiding at the back of the tank.
I'm devastated.

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2017, 09:40:49 PM »
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Oh no. I just don't know what to say .....  :'(

Offline fcmf

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #116 on: October 24, 2017, 11:08:43 PM »
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Apologies for not being able to reply before now. I've read through the posts carefully and it seems such an incredibly undeserving case of terrible misfortune. I don't think there's anything more that I can add to your own thoughts and others', and you're doing your utmost and everything I would advise. I can only keep everything incredibly tightly crossed that this settles ASAP.

Afterthought: presumably none of the other tanks would be suitable (temp/tankmate compatibility, etc) to temporarily house any of the remaining fish..?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2017, 08:58:07 AM »
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Unfortunately there have been more deaths overnight. 2 more rainbow shiners have perished.
I'm going to head to the fish store to get more RO. I have an empty Fluval Roma 200 in the hallway, so I'm going to set that up with the FX4 pump, and transfer the fish to that. It's much smaller than they are used to, but probably better than leaving them where they are. That will then give me the opportunity to completely strip down the Aqua Oak and start again. I also have another tank available in the spare bedroom downstairs, but that is currently full of wood that is soaking prior to use, so a bit more difficult to set that one up for them, but it is there if I need it.
It means transfering the fish from a mature tank to a new set up, but at least I know that the fish will eat things like courgette, and the Repashy foods, so they (hopefully) wont miss the biofilm & algae in the tank.
I'm concerned that moving them will stress them further, but I'm not sure what else I can do to recover the situation.
 :(

Offline Sue

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #118 on: October 25, 2017, 10:02:56 AM »
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I think that moving them is the lesser of two evils. Something nasty has happened to their tank so a new tank and uncontaminated water is the better option even if it is not perfect.

I do not know what could have happened to this tank. Debris from the filter/pipes should not kill fish. I hope you can find out what happened.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Setting up a river tank - Littlefish
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »
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Moving the fish is the lesser of two evils, and it will also give me the opportunity to investigate the tank whilst stripping it down.
Whatever has happened is not something I can test for. The water is giving results of 0, 0, <40 (tap is 40) every time.
I'm just keeping my fingers crossed now that those of us in the household that are still alive & functioning make it thrugh the rest of the day.

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