Tropical Fish Forum

Tropical Fish Keeping => Gallery Showcase => Topic started by: Helen on September 17, 2017, 08:34:09 PM

Title: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 17, 2017, 08:34:09 PM
Here's a photo of my tank, with it's new lights.


In case you're curious what it used to look like before I got distracted by my 2 legged 'pets', here's a link to my original post in the gallery:
https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/gallery-showcase/my-240l-planted-tank/
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: MarquisMirage on September 17, 2017, 10:26:56 PM
Nice, like it.  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 05, 2017, 11:02:00 PM
Here's a photo of one of my kuhli loaches. I don't think I've ever managed to photograph them before. Sorry, it's still not a great photo!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 06, 2017, 06:45:33 AM
Are your khulis still chasing down the bugs disturbed in your substrate changing activities? Must be fascinating to watch  :fishy1:

I've always been afraid of not seeing khuli loaches because of their nocturnal nature - they are such interesting fish though.  Do you see much of yours during the day? What do you feed them?
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 06, 2017, 08:24:44 AM
In that photo the kuhli is on the undisturbed substrate. They're a bit too well camouflaged on the 'new' dark, speckled substrate. But I stayed up a bit late last night watching them, they're so interesting  :o Both kuhlis went on 'hunting' expeditions on the the lowered gravel, slinking around the valis. Although I didn't see anything as distinctly hunting as the day before, they were definitely still clearly finding things to eat.

I've seen a lot more of my kuhlis recently than I used to. I think it's because my crypts pretty much completely covered the substrate, so they can be seen from the front of  the tank but still not be exposed from the surface. I will definitely be doing something along these lines with the refreshed tank.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on November 06, 2017, 10:33:32 AM
The more kuhlis there are the more they come out. In order to see them, you need lots of them  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 06, 2017, 02:07:19 PM
More kuhlis are definitely on my shopping list. But I figured that they (and other bottom dwellers) would be most distressed by my messing with the substrate. So I am resisting the temptation to buy more until I've got the aquascaping right.

Also kuhlis are the only fish I've had from the very beginning, so it's not impossible that these two are nearly 8 years old!  :isay:

(It hasn't always just been the two of them, but I had a case of white spot, which they must have survived)

I think the prevalence of crypts has had the most notable effect of their 'courage'. Unless it's just old age that makes them care less about being out and about!  ???
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on November 06, 2017, 02:23:16 PM
It's always difficult to know what to do for the best with aged fish, the last few of a shoal. If you don't want more, just keep them as they are till they pass away from old age.

But if Matt or anyone else is thinking of getting any, get at least 6, preferably a lot more.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 06, 2017, 02:40:15 PM
What do you think an ideal number would be for my 4 ft tank? It will be heavily planted, with quite a bit of bogwood and a stone 'cave' / arch. I am contemplating one other type of bottom dwellers, (maybe kribs?) so they shouldn't have much competition in the bottom of the tank.

Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on November 06, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
In a tank that size, I would look at having 10 to 15 kuhlis.

I've seen photos by people who have 10+ with the kuhlis draped over pieces of decor at the most peculiar angles. The owners reckon they only do this when there are enough of them to feel comfortable to be seen out. One owner I've read had 15 in a 2 foot tank  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 06, 2017, 10:28:50 PM
I have a soft spot for kuhlis, so love the idea of getting another dozen.  ;D  I've never seen that many in my lfs at one time, so I guess I'd have to order them? Is that generally an easy thing to do - it's a Maidenhead aquatics branch?
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 06, 2017, 11:20:24 PM
MA should be able to order in anything on their central list of fish.  I would imagine they would have no problem getting hold of khulis.  If your anywhere near Chorley.... Aquahome had some in today.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on November 07, 2017, 08:37:46 AM
Both my local MAs always have khulis in stock, so it shouldn;t be a problem for your's to get hold of some.  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on November 07, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
I was once told they can get anything on their list as Matt said. But they can't get anything not on their list, and the fish I wanted wasn't.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 16, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Realised that I've not put a photo of the refurbished tank in here. So here it is.

The five band barbs are settling in slowly. They may be the same colour scheme as the rasboras, but they behave very differently. I'm really pleased that I got them, they are a lovely addition to the tank.

I will post photos when they're a bit more settled. The only time they've really come out was when I fed them this evening. And it wasn't until I took two steps back that they all shot out of their hiding places. Now I know to have my camera ready next time. 😀
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on January 17, 2018, 07:13:02 AM
Nice!  8)

I find fish behaviour so much more interesting that their looks so I totally get what you mean about the barbs vs harlies.   :)  That said, ive never kept barbs... how would you say their behavious compares to the harlies?

Harlies for me are strong directional shoalers (though every now and then one of them seems to forget this is the case), they do their 'sharking' when displaying to each other and I find their feeding fascinating they seem to spy the food from 10-15cm below the surface then make quick darts to the top to grab the food then back down again to munch it down.  I assume because there are birds which would eat then in their natural environment. They don't tend to interact with the decor much but rather prefer to be out patrolling back and forth across the front of the tank.


PS. Reading up a bit about the discussion on MA's fish list they should be able to order anything off, i assume the same applies for the plant list I posted recently...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on January 17, 2018, 12:07:56 PM
Great tank  :cheers:

Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 17, 2018, 05:30:45 PM
The barbs aren't completely settled in yet, so it'll be interesting to see if/ how their behaviour changes as they get more comfortable in their new environment. Most of them are still doing what I think of as the 'new fish dash'. Which is swimming up and down in the area of strongest current (the back wall of the tank). When they're not doing this they seem to swim in a slightly more nose down position. And they seem to have a stop start swim pattern. Whereas the rasboras are definitely horizontal and more 'pootley', just keeping up with the current, but not then moving quite as quickly. These two swim positions make sense when reading up on their natural feeding habits. Rasboras are surface feeders, whereas the  five band barbs are substrate feeders. Again this was really obvious when I fed them. On Monday I fed a generous portion of flake, assuming that the barbs would have some. I'd read that barbs don't do well if fed only dried food, but I didn't realise that they wouldn't even recognise flakes on the surface as food! Having overfed the rasboras, I think didn't want to try a different food (which I know the rasboras would have gobbled as well). So by the time I fed again on Tuesday evening, the barbs seemed pretty hungry. This time I fed some gel daphnia. I tried to squidge it out of the packet in little bits and spread it around. The barbs waited till I was out of the way and then dashed out. They went completely head down and then moved around picking at the food on the substrate, or plants. The rasboras again kept as horizontal position as possible while picking food up. If one of the barbs broke up a bit of gel so there were loads of bits in the water, it was the rasboras that would go for the bits. The barbs seemed happier vertical, picking off the substrate.

Because they have different swim positions, it isn't as noticeable that they actually have pretty similar body shapes.

The kuhlis are out more and more as well (well one of them is). I've seen them just chilling under the crypts or draped over the  base of the bolbitus. I'm looking forward to getting more and they will be my next fish purchase. I asked when I bought the barbs if they had any kuhlis and the lady that served me offered to order some. So when I'm ready for my next fish, I'll give my local MA a call and order some kuhlis.

I've realised that although all my fish choices should be compatible, they all have different behaviours. I won't get anything else done once I'm fully stocked from watching fish!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on January 17, 2018, 06:54:50 PM
I have some substrate feeders, and other fish that feed from both the water column and the substrate. I have small sinking pellets. I soak them in water then suck them into a pipette and squirt the soggy pellets hard into the tank. Being soggy they sink faster and the hard squirt gets them to the bottom before the Espe's rasboras can get them all. I also add flake at the same time to distract the rasboras.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on January 17, 2018, 07:59:29 PM

I've realised that although all my fish choices should be compatible, they all have different behaviours. I won't get anything else done once I'm fully stocked from watching fish!

 ;D   :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 17, 2018, 10:12:49 PM
Hmm, I might try soaking a sinking pellet. Before the barbs were added, I'd sprinkle in crushed flakes and then when all the rasboras were busy feeding I'd drop a pellet in the other end of the tank. The rasboras don't mess with Bertie and the kuhlis. They stay a safe distance and wait for crumbs.

But I'd not thought of sinking pellets for the barbs.

Tonight they had frozen food. I've just dropped in a sinking pellet (after the lights went out). The barbs were first to it, but some of the rasboras seem to be barb groupies. Bertie looks like he's trying to decide whether to claim it or wait a bit longer. Hmm, I thought he was going to tag team with the kuhlis for a minute there...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on January 18, 2018, 08:50:59 AM
Absolutely loving the fascinating updates on the fishes' antics - keep 'em coming.  :fishy1:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 18, 2018, 09:40:57 PM
On the menu today was a few flakes to distract the rasboras (I don't think I put enough in as they weren't distracted for very long!) and some sinking pellets. Which went down (still are going down) a treat. Although I don't think I soaked them long enough as the response was definitely delayed.

@Sue, how long do you soak the sinking wafers for? I have tetrawafer mix. Which are approximately 6mm diameter wafers.

I also have JBL pleco wafers, which I put in for Bertie.

Anyway, it made for a great photo opportunity (and fish watching). I just need to work on my photographic skills!

So I managed to take one decent photo of a fiveband barb, that Bertie photo-bombed (very unlike him!). And then I realised that the previous photo, although fuzzy, had an example of each type of fish currently in my tank. So you are looking out for a kuhli loach (tail only, unfortunately, not head), BN Plec, fiveband barb and espeii and harlequin rasboras.  :D
 :fishy1:  :fishy1:  :fishy1:  :fishy1:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on January 18, 2018, 09:58:46 PM
Brilliant. Thanks for posting pics, it lovely to see your gang enjoying their new set up.  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on January 18, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Great update and pics. :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on January 19, 2018, 08:48:19 AM
@Helen I use New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula which has 0.5 mm spherical pellets. I soak these for 2 to 3 minutes. I also have Omega One Veggie Rounds for the stiphodons; these are just over 1 cm diameter. I feed half a disc, crush it with a pestle and mortar to the same size as the NLS pellets, and soak it with the pellets.
NLS pellets - first one on the right side of the page here http://nlspectrum.co.uk/range/Freshwater - they make the same formulation in larger pellet sizes as well.
Veggie rounds http://www.omegasea.net/products/nutrition/veggie-rounds

Since I feed the fish just after our meals, I use left over water from the kettle to soak the food, and because it is still quite warm I find the pellets/wafer bits soak faster. And it probably has very little chlorine left after being boiled for a pot of tea.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 22, 2018, 01:07:33 AM
Soaked sinking wafers seems to be working really well. Because they are softer, they she'd bits on the way to the bottom of the tank. This causes the rasboras to go bonkers. But they stay in the middle of the water column. And the barbs start to go bonkers at the substrate level. It makes for a huge amount of activity over nearly the full height of the tank.

The barbs are definitely settling in. When I opened the door under the tank this evening to get the food out, 9 (of 12) came to see what I was doing and then started picking at the substrate even though I'd not put anything in the tank!

The one problem with the barbs is that they are next to impossible to count. I can't count them when they are feeding because they are too well camouflaged against the dark speckled substrate and crypts. But that is the only time they all come out of hiding.  :vcross:

So at the moment I can only hope I've not lost 2!  :yikes: (I've managed to count up to 10).
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on January 22, 2018, 07:13:10 AM
Counting fish can be a nightmare in a heavily planted tank... it's taken me a few goes to count 10 galaxy rasbora in my 220 litre.  I used to struggle sometimes to find everyone in my 64 litre too, especially the 2 Amano shrimp (don't worry I'm not trying to count the cherry shrimp!!).  Most of the time though if there had been a fishy catastrophe, it was super obvious and right at the front for some reason (water flow?)  :yikes:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on January 22, 2018, 08:15:00 AM
I guess that's one of the benefits of a sandy substrate. I've not seen a fish body in my tank for ages, despite looking. (There was a rasbora body shaped stone that had me in a panic many times. It was specifically removed with the refurb!)
 I think I didn't feed my fish enough that they demolished any unlucky ones very quickly. :yikes:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on January 22, 2018, 10:14:19 AM
My rasboras are the easiest to count. I bought 18 (asked for and paid for 15!); 3 died within 2 weeks. I can only count 13 or sometimes 14. After the first three deaths I have not found a dead rasbora. So are the last couple hiding or have they died and the bodies vanished?

All my fish know what going into the cupboard means, then when I open the lid they are waiting for me. The betta is worse. As soon as he sees the food tub he goes straight to his feeding place and gets agitated if I take too long. I get told off by a fish  ;D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Fishbeard on January 22, 2018, 08:23:12 PM
Glad to see I'm not alone in struggling to count. My tetras and gouramis play fair, but the corys insist on hiding and lying perfectly still on similarly coloured gravel and rocks... it doesn't help that they sometimes "sleep" on top of each other too, just to make it even more of a challenge.

That's a lovely looking tank too, very natural.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 04, 2018, 04:52:15 PM
Thought you might like to see a photo of the tank with it's latest inhabitants. Looking a little less stark.

Think I'm going to have to get more green plants to go along the crypts. The fiveband barbs are too well camouflaged, swimming in their favourite area of the tank!  :rotfl:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on February 04, 2018, 06:05:20 PM
Looks great :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on February 04, 2018, 08:08:07 PM
Fantastic tank.  ;D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on February 05, 2018, 06:33:13 AM
Awesome...  :cheers:

Nope, I can't see any fivebands!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 06:51:30 AM
 :rotfl:

There are 5 visible in this photo - 3 quite clear! The two that photographed the best are on the bottom 'third' line, just to the right of the giant bogwood (on the left, just above the crypts).

They definitely inhabit the bottom third of the tank. The rasboras in the middle and the rainbows the top third.  ;)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 09:37:55 AM
 :rotfl:
Ha ha. It's a bit like "where's Walley". Or maybe a magic eye picture

I was going to put circles round the two I was trying to point out, but my technological skill can't stretch that far.

So here's a cropped section of the photo. Starting from the top, there are 3 harlequin rasboras, one dwarf rainbow fish and then well camouflaged  by the crypts you can see the vertical bars of two fiveband barbs, perfectly in profile!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 09:39:37 AM
Perhaps it's why they seem so at home in my tank. They don't hide, because even when they're not hiding it isn't easy to see them!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Sue on February 05, 2018, 09:49:18 AM
I have tampered with your photo  ;D You'll need to click on it to see my "circles"


But I can find only 4 barbs......
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 10:03:56 AM
 :rotfl: :rotfl:

I think the fifth one is half behind the middle leaf of the small anubias on the stone / pebble. I think I can just see one distinctive band and the tail is a blur. I don't think it is the decor. :yikes:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 10:09:07 AM
By the way, they are much easier to see in real life. Because of their movement but also their bands have a beautiful iridescence.  And the males are almost orange.

There is one (?!) female that keeps flicking against leaves (not hard surfaces, so I'm comfortable it's not parasites), but although some of the males seem interested, she doesn't seem to have persuaded any of them to actually spawn with her. Or maybe I've just missed it!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on February 05, 2018, 07:26:23 PM
They are beautiful fish @Helen
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on February 05, 2018, 08:45:14 PM
Thank you @Matt . I'm feeling really pleased with my combination of fish right now. Together they fill the tank nicely because they inhabit different areas. I'm quite excited about how it'll look when they're all full size (which is different for each species).  :D

But it is sooooo difficult to stop tinkering! The problem with slow growing plants is that... they grow slowly! So it is and will continue to take some time for the tank to fill up as I want it. I have several ideas for filling in some spots, another tall java fern narrow behind the large bogwood, for example. Possibly attached to a coconut cave. And I think I might tweak the arrangement of rocks to the right of the lotus. I am wondering whether my tank could accommodate another lotus, but I'm guessing that as soon as I give in, they'll both grow like mad and I'll have to take one out!

It is a good thing that I don't have enough time to implement my ideas. If I did, I suspect I'd catch MTS! I just have to live it through everyone else on here.  :cheers:

(This week I'm organising a party for my daughter's 5th birthday at the weekend! The fish are getting a lot of watching to keep me calm!)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on February 05, 2018, 08:47:49 PM
(This week I'm organising a party for my daughter's 5th birthday at the weekend! The fish are getting a lot of watching to keep me calm!)

 :rotfl: Good Luck!!!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on March 19, 2018, 10:19:27 AM
I have to say that @Sue 's suggestion of grinding sinking pellets is brilliant. The feeding behaviours of the fish, in particular the fiveband barbs, but also the kuhlis, seems a lot more natural. They 'peck' over the substrate, rather than cluster all in one place competing for the pellets.

Downsides are it is completely impossible to count how many fivebands I have.

And I'm not sure about the quantities that I am feeding. Even if I soak the ground up pellets in tank water before I pour them in, they spread over a decent area (which is good, imho), but most of that area is small gravel, so the food grains don't just sit on top. So I can't tell if I'm over feeding the fish. The usual measures of food being left over after a couple minutes doesn't work because I can't see the food to start with. And because they have to look for their food, the fish take longer to feed, swimming and pecking, rather than just guzzling. Also it is difficult to tell how much of the food I put in gets eaten and how much falls out of reach in between the gravel.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on April 10, 2018, 11:04:39 PM
Developments on the plant side. Lotus is looking much better for adding the root tab. So I've dotted another couple around the tank to try and encourage some height.

New plants turned up today - nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' (thanks for the recommendation @TopCookie ). Because it was a tissue culture, I've put that in the tank. Certainly good value. I didn't expect to get quite so much. If it grows as much as the label says (30cm in 30 days) I will be taking rather a lot out in a couple months time!

Also in my little delivery was some TNC carbon, a cryptocorne wenditii green (apologies for my spelling, it's just gone haywire) and a little pot of java moss. I've decided to quarantine the crypt and moss for a bit longer. And I think I'll let the new plants settle before I try the carbon.

I also got out the junior hacksaw for my coconuts.  ;) One of my existing coconut halves got a doorway cut out of it and I sawed in half the 'new' coconut. Hmm, I left that a bit long and the inside was far from edible. It smells a lot like a strong blue cheese - with a hint of coconut!  :sick: It is going to be a good while before that is clean enough to go in my tank.

I'd like to point out that coconut shells are hard. I did wonder whether the £5 for someone else to do the sawing might have been worth it!

The java moss has also been tied to the existing coconut pieces, the caves can soak at the same time as the moss is quarantined. I'm considering leaving the caves in quarantine until the moss has attached itself to the coconut and I can cut off the thread. I didn't find tieing thread round a half coconut very easy. The underside looks a bit like one of those laser rooms you see in films. 😮
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on April 10, 2018, 11:15:10 PM
Wow, Helen...  this is gorgeous...!!! 

(https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3141.0;attach=5065;image)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on April 10, 2018, 11:34:33 PM
Thank you.

I don't suffer from MTS, but an alternative, CTT (chronic tank tinkering).  :yikes:

It took me nearly 8 years to actually get around to the monumental task of removing more than half the substrate and completely replanting the tank. I also introduced the sand area. Which was a path until the inhabitants had their turn at aquascaping! I did do a thread showing my progress through the substrate removal. I think it is in general fishkeeping chat and called rejuvenating a neglected tank?

The nymphoides has gone on the left hand side with the intention of providing some surface cover there. When I get the ferts right, the Vallis on the right grows up to and along the surface. But I'm not there yet with the new configuration.

The green crypts will go in amongst the other crypts and hopefully break up the brown colour block a bit.

And the rainbowfish are looking better and bluer all the time. It's difficult not to be impatient for them to reach full size.  :o
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on April 11, 2018, 07:02:43 AM
I like the idea of the mossy coconut caves... I got the chance to try out one of those laser rooms when we did crystal mase in Manchester.... It's was absolutely impossible!

Just a note on vallis and liquid carbon... a lot of people find that vallis doesn't like liquid carbon... I can't recall the science behind it but I know there are mixed reviews with its effect on vallis... I would start with a half dose and see how you go. To be honest, I would never do more than a half dose of liquid carbon anyway seeing as it is actually a product designed to clean medical instruments and kill bacteria... I personally always see upset fish at more than a half dose.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on April 11, 2018, 07:54:08 AM
Glad to hear that root tabs are having a positive impact on your plants.
I don't have the patience or dexterity to tie plants (especially moss) to anything.
I hope that your new plants do well  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Skittler on April 11, 2018, 09:30:46 AM
@Matt, I agree regarding liquid carbon/vallis. Half a dose almost destroyed my thriving v. spiralis. When I stopped using it, it eventually recovered.

                Skittler
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on April 11, 2018, 03:47:10 PM
In reality I have too many plants and not enough fish in my tank to have the right amount of CO2. I should use injected gas CO2, but I'm trying to find a lower tech solution. But I have heard lots of bad things about liquid carbon, so having bought I'm hesitating actually adding it. I was going to only add a half dose, but now I'm thinking I might add even less to start with.

I'd rather just buy more fish! But I've set myself quite a specific shopping list and I've got a bit of a stumbling block getting more kuhlis. Because I don't have a quarantine tank at the moment and I've had a bad experience with kuhlis in the past (and white spot), I'm only getting my fish from one shop. So I need to wait for them to get more kuhlis in.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on April 11, 2018, 04:59:48 PM
On the liquid carbon front, I have a virtually full bottle of TNC Carbon that I will gladly give to anybody that might want it...  Never again shall I put that stuff in my tank after how it nearly fatally anaesthetised all of my Amano shrimp...!!!  Certainly made the plants go on an explosive growing spurt though...!!! 

In a high tech set up, then I guess folks would normally inject their CO2 and likely have several plants that are hard/tricky to grow...  I can't imagine liquid carbon being used in such a set up...  In a low tech or just plain regular tropical tank, which likely has plants from the easy & medium categories, should you need liquid carbon...? 

Finally, in the case of all but a high tech set up, then the question is;  do you actually want your plants growing super fast...?

Seems to fall in a funny no man's land sorta spot, this liquid carbon...  Not good enough for the top tier, yet too good for almost everything else...   :o
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on April 11, 2018, 06:04:20 PM
My plan wasn't to continuously use the liquid carbon, but a couple of my plants could do with a boost. Interestingly, one of those plants is the Vallis, so I'm wondering how much of a good idea it is.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on April 11, 2018, 10:34:52 PM
I recall reading somewhere that inconsistent CO2 levels can encourage algae growth Helen...  Can't remember for the life of me where though, but worth investigating... 

This was a secondary factor that put me off the use of liquid carbon - that whole notion of having to dose a measured amount every day... 
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 04, 2018, 09:24:32 PM
So here's a photo of the tank, taken a couple days ago.

Plus, in the following post, a photo (that i think is really exciting) of a new leaf on my lotus that is literally twice as tall as any other and looking like it is still going up. Please excuse the state of the front of the tank, I'm sorting through some algae issues at the moment.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 04, 2018, 09:26:30 PM
Lotus leaf. Still curled. It is a bit challenging to see with the mess on the front of the tank.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on June 04, 2018, 09:57:59 PM
Tank generally, fish and lotus leaf all look fantastic - well done!  :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 04, 2018, 10:09:13 PM
Thank you. It is in its basic, zero supplements state at the moment. But some of the plants are looking noticeably sad for it. So I am trying to sort myself out to work out what i need to supplement with. I think it is the macro nutrients (definitely nitrate) and carbon. I'm just being a wuss on the carbon, because I have some TNC carbon (liquid). I just need to figure out how much and how often to dose. I've been reading @TopCookie 's thread with interest. And I'm not reliableon my daily routine.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on June 04, 2018, 10:40:35 PM
Tank's looking great Helen...  plants all looking suitably lush to me lass...  :)

I've had, virtually forced upon me, a bit of a re-think about the liquid carbon and just where it sits in that whole balanced nutrition scheme of things...  My current stand point is that a little bit is definitely better than none if you are adding fertilisers...  I'm just keeping the amount down to around one third of the recommended dose at the moment, and the fertilisers down to around half the recommended dose...  Too soon to be objective on how effective this regime is, but will stick to it for the time being and report back again at some point down the line...  Ideally, I'd love to have a situation where no fertilisers and no carbon are necessary, but that hasn't panned out well in my tank and so just that little bit of nutrition now along with a reduced tank lights period...   

EDIT:  I dose the TNC Carbon daily and one hour before the lights come on...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: daveyng on June 04, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
Tank planting looks great. The Crypts look good in the foreground. I also like the plant just above the Java Fern. Don’t recognise it though.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on June 04, 2018, 11:00:51 PM
Looking good Helen! Why not just does something like the aquascape completed liquid plant food so you know that you have all bases covered?

I believe it's an anubias @daveyng   I agreed those crypts look fab... great to have some colour like this in your planting!...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on June 05, 2018, 08:45:43 AM
Great looking tank.  :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 05, 2018, 04:50:26 PM
Thank you everyone.

Do you mean the floating plant above the java fern? Then yes it is a pair of anubias. I couldn't bring myself to bin them, then let them float as I'd over pruned the tall plants and there was no surface cover for my new fish. They are destined for the bin unless anyone wants them. (They will need thorough washing and quarantining if you don't like snails as I'm not fussed by my snails. I consider them kuhli food)

I've actually made a concerted effort to increase the number of green plants as I realised that my tank looked rather brown after years of trying not to have a tank that was all green! There are some cypts wendtii green slowly growing through the olive and bronze crypts.

I probably will go the way of a single complete fertiliser, but wanted to have a go at working out what I'm actually missing. Last time I added micro nutrients (without adiing any macro) I had a major algae outbreak. So think I need to get my NPK sorted first.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 05, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Look how much the lotus leaf has grown since yesterday! It looks like it is making a bid for the surface.  ;D

Sorry if you're not as excited about my leaf as I am! It certainly doesn't seem bothered by the lack of NPK!

Edited to actually add the photo!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on June 05, 2018, 09:34:51 PM
Just wondering @Helen and reflecting on Pierre's recent experiences... if you sort the NPK problem out the demand for micros will go up as the plants grow faster... one to watch out for deficiencies with or go complete ferts I would suggest.

The lotus leaf growth is cool - I love watching the flow spike from my aponogetum grow like an inch a day!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on June 05, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
I'm inclined to agree with you and Matt on the ferts thing Helen, albeit you must allow for my still being very much an apprentice...  :)   But in hindsight, I was for a good while fertilising with TNC Lite (micros only) in a bid to avoid adding more phosphates, and I bet this is a major part of the opportunity that the algae issues took to become gradually established... 
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 05, 2018, 10:46:49 PM
That's a good point about not forgetting the micro nutrients as the demand for them will increase. Really I'm looking for the minimum supplementation that I can get away with (and still have a nice looking tank), so a complete fert is probably the way to do that.

I had hoped that by stocking it comprehensively with fish, I could avoid adding nitrogen. But I had fewer plants last time I managed to get a balance. Now the tank has been fully stocked for a couple months, it's clear that I am going to have to dose NPK.

I started with the TNC carbon today. The recommended dose for my tank would be 4ml per day. But I've only added 0.5ml. So I will see what effect that has over the next couple of weeks.

I also added 5ml (powdered) potassium nitrate (dissolved in a jar of tank water) yesterday. Interestingly my Seneye measured an increase in ammonia. From 0.014 to 0.022, so not a worrying increase.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 09, 2018, 09:02:24 PM
I've not managed to get very good photos of the fiveband barbs, but I just noticed that they're all hanging out at the front waiting to be fed. So I snapped a pic.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on June 09, 2018, 09:23:48 PM
Great picture of lovely fish.  8)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on June 09, 2018, 10:12:35 PM
Super shot... a lot of green going on there  :D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on June 09, 2018, 11:30:59 PM
Lush, lush, lush...!!!  Fish looking fab too...!!!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: daveyng on June 09, 2018, 11:52:39 PM
Great looking fish. Five bands look stunning against the backdrop of the Crypts.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on June 10, 2018, 11:59:27 AM
Wow - lovely.  8) Lucky fish, having such a lovely home.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 17, 2018, 11:15:04 PM
Ok, so I've created a YouTube channel and uploaded a couple videos of my tank. It has taken me a while to find the videos I uploaded so I can put the link here! So you might have to bear with me while I work out how to get the link to work.

https://youtu.be/yHIB4dS_x6s (https://youtu.be/yHIB4dS_x6s)

Ok, so I can get it to work as a url, but I can't work out how to get the long url, so can't embed the video.

Here's another couple:
https://youtu.be/WuFu0RUymwo (https://youtu.be/WuFu0RUymwo)
https://youtu.be/yuPEASW3pi4 (https://youtu.be/yuPEASW3pi4)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 17, 2018, 11:20:42 PM
And here's the photo of my tank from the end, a different perspective.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on June 17, 2018, 11:46:05 PM
Love that pic...  Just looks like Pingu is saying: "ta da...  look what I have done..."   :D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on June 17, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Bertie is a big old campaigner, eh...  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on June 17, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
Well the penguin was holding down the annubias after I replanted it. I'm guessing it has secured itself again as it's not floated off since he let go!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on June 18, 2018, 09:02:13 AM
Love that pic...  Just looks like Pingu is saying: "ta da...  look what I have done..."   :D

 :rotfl: yes he does.

Great tank, and lovely to see Bertie.  ;D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 17, 2018, 08:35:28 PM
A couple videos of my tank. The first long one is just a general "watching the fish", nothing particularly exciting happening.

https://youtu.be/zqKL6bf8mrQ (https://youtu.be/zqKL6bf8mrQ)

The next one is a terrible quality video, but it is of one of my Kuhlis sifting the sand (most likely reason the sand never stays where I put it!) If you are sufficiently sharp eyed, you can see where he looks like he has wings either side of his head. That is the sand being ejected out through the gill flaps. Seeing it makes me so pleased that I put sand into my tank, even if I struggle to maintain it.

https://youtu.be/xvi_LDoSCpM (https://youtu.be/xvi_LDoSCpM)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on September 17, 2018, 08:46:52 PM
Loved the first one - your tank looks so professional and relaxing to watch... I might just show it to my fish to show them how they ought to behave. Hmmm - I do wonder if the extra swimming space calms them down... (good excuse for a tank upgrade for me ;)).

Second one is also interesting, partly because I've never kept loaches. It looks as though he's kicking up sand at the very end to mark his territory.  :D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 17, 2018, 09:16:07 PM
I don't think the kuhlis are territorial. They have certainly never reacted to anyone in their personal space. I have seen a 'pile' of bn plec, kuhli and rasboras all trying to get to the same wafer. What usually happens is the Bertie eventually runs out of patience and flicks his tail, which has everone else running swimming for cover. But seeing as I put the wafer in the tank for him anyway, it just provides entertainment.

I think the flick of sand at the end is because he moves so quick, his tail kicks up a cloud of sand.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on September 17, 2018, 09:32:16 PM
Kuhilis are great. Such lovely faces and adorable antics.  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 17, 2018, 09:46:39 PM
I absolutely love my kuhlis. I really want to get more but my usual lfs hasn't had them in all year (and wasn't expecting to when I last asked)  I know that they have a reputation for being nocturnal, but my two come out a lot. Especially since the planting in my tank has increased. So I suspect that they just don't like bright light. When out and about mine are either under crypts (which to be fair cover nearly 50% of my tank) or under the bolbitus / small lotus that provide shade over most of the sand. They also seem completely un concerned that there are only 2 of them.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 18, 2018, 07:59:44 PM
@fcmf  my tank isn't as calm today. I think that one of the fivebands might be gravid. There is a lot of chasing going on - mostly males chasing females (i can't tell if it's the same female)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on September 21, 2018, 06:44:21 AM
Im playing forum catchup!  Just seen your videos... the first one is great. You should set it to relaxing music! I too feel like I could sit and what that tank with a brew for a totally unacceptable amount of time lol.

You have inspired me to give filming my tank another go... watch this space  :cheers:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on September 22, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
I realised that I'd spent 2 hours just sat infront of the tank watching the fish! Not terribly productive.  ::)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on September 22, 2018, 11:05:41 AM
Though very relaxing, so good for your health.  :)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2018, 10:31:24 PM
So, inspired by the exploits of @Littlefish and @Matt, I bought some extra bits of wood for my tank. They ahve spent a week soaking and I've spent the last two evenings meddling with my aquascaping. I'm not entirely sure you can see many changes to the aquascape and I hope that changes when the bolbitus and java fern grow a bit more.

If I've attached them successfully the 3 photos are:
Before
After usual pruning
After rearranging
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 26, 2018, 10:50:28 PM
Im assuming that's a rotala in the back middle - what a trim that had (and needed!!).  The tank looks fab, well done :)  I can see your mods to the RHS too :) looking good  8) I hope your crew leave the sand well alone for you this time round!!

Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2018, 11:04:24 PM
The middle of the tank also got a bit of a revamp too, though unfortunately that's not as easy to see because the crypts in front are a bit too tall and the same colour!

A large u-shaped bit of wood went in (I bought it to be an arch but found it was more stable as an U) with another new wood arch (again bought to be the otber way up!  ::))
 I have attached bolbitus and java fern to both these pieces of wood so hopefully when they grow in, the middle of the tank will have more variation than just crypts and rotala. I also moved the bit of wood that previously had all the java fern on from the back where it was hidden because it's not grown quite as tall as I'd hoped, to between the new wood and the crypts. Hopefully this brings some green in amongst the dark olive / brown crypts.

I've not done a particularly good job of spreading out the sand as I'm fairly confident the kuhlis will have rearranged it by tomorrow anyway!

And annoyingly, I forgot to scrub the from of the glass!

The rotala grows well in my tank. Stopping it from blocking the water flow can be quite challenging. So this time instead of just shortening the stems, I thinned it as well, taking out the extra long stems all together.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 26, 2018, 11:21:30 PM
Ahh yes I can see now, such lush plants you have there hiding things :)

The contrast in leaf colour and texture will look great, especially when the jave ferns grows a bit taller  :cheers:

At risk of sounding like a crypt killer(!) it might be worth removing the crypt on the LHS of the sand patch to bring out the wood a bit more... what do you think?
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2018, 11:38:47 PM
I did think about taking that crypt out. A few reasons I didn't.

Mainly because it is huge and I'm pretty sure the root system is huge (based on its babies that I took out from the front of the tank) and taking it out would actually be pretty disruptive to the substrate!

Also, it got quite late last night and I was losing the plot taking out so many plants, that I thought I should pause in my destruction!

And then I noticed that it actually lines up quite nicely with the side of the arch, so I've planted another couple, hopefully much smaller and actually green, crypts behind it in an attempt to create a kind of tunnel leading to the arch.

But, yes, if that doesn't work, it'll have to come out!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2018, 11:40:26 PM
You sure you're not just after such a fine specimen for your own tank?  :raspberries :o
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 27, 2018, 06:53:06 AM
 :rotfl:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 27, 2018, 10:40:23 PM
It is interesting to see the pH slowly dropping. I wonder how far it'll go before it completely stabilises. It's dropped about 0.2 over the last couple days.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 28, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
Another video of my fish. Be warned, it is actually 5 minutes long and nothing particularly spectacular happens, it's just my fish doing their thing after feeding. But there is an appearance from every species in the tank, including one of the kuhlis.

https://youtu.be/8_V8ieFg6hw (https://youtu.be/8_V8ieFg6hw)
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on November 28, 2018, 11:03:05 PM
Looking really good there H...  Especially the cool as you like Kuhli and handsome BN Pleco...!!!  All of 'em in fact...!!!  Cant take my eyes off the Raspberries either...   :D
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: fcmf on November 28, 2018, 11:05:02 PM
Wow - the photos and that video are fantastic. What a wonderful and enviable habitat you have for your lovely fish - no wonder they look so content pootling around as they go about their business in their own underwater world.

 :fishy1:.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 29, 2018, 07:21:15 AM
Btw, it is a really low tech tank. No added CO2, lighting is probably lower than average (as I'm a muppet and got shorter units than best for my tank). No special substrate (the Eco Complete and gravel mix was sieved after about 8 years,  the sand is childrens play sand). I don't feed my fish every day, but probably feed a little too much. Water changes are about once a month, and usually 50-60l (in about 210l of water) and nearly always some vacuuming. I sporadically add plant fertiliser and have pest snails.

The choice of plants has slowly evolved to be best suitable to the conditions. The rotala is the fastest growing, then the nymphoid. The crypts breed like crazy and I can't keep mosses alive at all!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on November 29, 2018, 09:29:45 AM
There's a lot to be said for low tech, low maintenance tanks.  :cheers:
I've found that crypts do quite well for me too.
Your set up looks great, and your fish look really happy with their environment.  :afro
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Matt on November 29, 2018, 07:10:46 PM
Great video and nice amount of movement in your tank :) your khulis are huge!!  :fishy1:
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 29, 2018, 09:47:06 PM
My kuhlis are pretty old.

The last time I bought kuhlis was before I had any children (or even a bump). It was in winter and I think they got too cold on the way home. Anyway, whitespot developed and wiped most of them out. These two are the last survivors, though at least 3 survived the whitespot.

 My daughter is nearly 6, so they could be 8 years old! I don't think they get on particularly well as I rarely see them sharing a space and they certainly don't wrap up together as you see in the shops. I can't really tell, but I think they may both be females.

It is also possible that at least one of the was 'born' in my tank, because when I had half a dozen, I remember suddenly seeing one that was significantly smaller than the others. I have always struggled to count them, because there are so many places to hide in my tank and they never all come out at once. So maybe they're not as old.

Perhaps I have more than 2, but I've only seen 2 at the same time for a very long time.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on November 29, 2018, 09:57:58 PM
My fish saw me sit in my "watching spot" so they've all come to the front to beg for food!!
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on November 30, 2018, 05:00:00 PM
Helen, what are the small patches I can see, which obscure the vision a little....?  I'm colour blind and can't tell if it's something that's supposed to be there or if the tank glass could do with a scrape...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on December 01, 2018, 01:01:35 AM
Tank definitely needs a scrape!  :-[ Annoyingly I forgot to do it when I rearranged the decor. So it has to wait till I find a moment this weekend.

It is definitely some sort of algae as it appears if i over fertilise (or may just be when I pour the fertiliser in at the front of the tank). But it doesn't go unless I scrape it.  >:( The plec doesn't touch it and it doesn't appear to be green. But it doesn't seem to get any worse than it is now, so I tend not to worry about it.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: TopCookie on December 01, 2018, 02:04:42 AM
Interesting...  As you know, I'm colour blind but even so it still doesn't look like algae...  I wonder if it is indeed some sort of deposit from fertiliser, as you suggest... 
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on December 02, 2018, 07:36:31 PM
Seneye pH trace dropped for a few days after introducing the new wood. Then again when I added some plant fertiliser (green square) I'm trying to decide if now is the right time to add a cattapa leaf.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: daveyng on December 03, 2018, 05:59:45 PM
I was looking at your Seneye output Helen. What timescale are the readings over ? I can’t see the bottom scale on the pic.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on December 03, 2018, 11:03:25 PM
Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to crop off the scale. That is a week's trace.
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Helen on December 09, 2018, 06:28:16 PM
When you have young children that are cute enough to be given free things and a birthday in late January when the fish shop is clearing out its Christmas stock...
Title: Re: My 240l planted tank, again.
Post by: Littlefish on December 09, 2018, 08:40:19 PM
Great addition to the tank for the festive season.  :)