Matt's 220 Litre Aquaoak

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Offline Matt

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2018, 04:51:55 AM »
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I managed to finish work early  :yikes: and my trip to MA was very successful so Ive made up for lost time!!

They had a really good selection of plants at the Blackpool MA but alas no wood that was suitable for what i needed. This is the first ive been following their floods in November and the store is now much brighter and more modern and focusses on freshwater only. I got lots of bunches of java fern, some crypts, some stem plants, and some moss.

When i got home, first I moved the rock i was talking about, though it didn't look right where I thought it should go but Mrs Matt came along with a fresh pair of eyes at just the right moment and now it's in a much better position anyway.  Hardscaping completed  :)

I then set to tidying up the aquasoil on the sand and floating at the surface.  I have still got a bit more work to do here but I'm through the worst of it.  :vcross:

Then the planting began.  :)) All the new plants were prepped and planted. Then I transferred the anubias and moss balls (as they were so easy to transfer and push into cracks in the new layout) and the hygrophila.  I dont have much of this as the lower leaves dont get enough light currently I dont think so I keep having to strip them and lower the plant into the substrate a bit - it is one if the plants I expect to do better in the new set up as despite this its still grows well.  The remaining plants I want to move across from the 64 litre ate the Amazon swords and crypts though i will leave this for a few days depending on the water test results.  I havent put root tabs under anything yet - I can always go back and do this if required - I figured I may as well give it a go without them first... would people class crypts as a root feeder though?

As I had got additional plants earlier than planned, I realised this basically meant extra filtration capacity so I felt confident in moving the first batch of fish across. I moved the 3 harlequins, 3 cardinals, and 2 corys over, plus a few shrimp (it became clear that shrimp would be an on going thing as they can hide so well  ::)). Following a death of a harlequin and a cardinal (due to old age) over the last couple of months since i did the initial planning, this is exactly half of the stocking of the 64 litre.  I've just been to check on them and everyone seems to be doing ok.

A photo is below (sorry it's rubbish quality, I'll get a better one tomorrow when I can turn up the lights a bit more and the fish are settled in). The odd small branches wood and moss on the left will be incorporated at some later stage. Ideally the moss would already have been attached to the wood and that all seems a bit complicated now... only some of the wood can easily be removed again. :vcross:

Tomorrow I will need to do some further water tests to check the fish are ok, continue to remove floating aquasoil and aquasoil that's worked it's way onto the sand, I can transfer any more shrimp I can catch, and possibly have a go at tieing some moss to the wood. I'll likely do some routine gravel vacuuming on the 64 litre as well.  :D

I need to put the lights on a timer in the morning as I realise now as i type this, that I'd forgotten all about this!

Offline Helen

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2018, 04:25:55 PM »
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Looking good. It's going to be fabulous when the plants have established themselves.

I think crypts are root feeders. Where I had deep substrate (that accumulated a lot of fish fertiliser over the years) the roots on my crypts were huge. In a lot of cases, the roots were longer than the leaves. Also, nitrogen rich substrate is less likely to result in crypt melt, so the crypts might benefit from root tabs until they get established (about a month? So one tab?)

I found hygrophilia to be very nitrogen hungry. This will bee ideal for a new set up, but as I tried to reduce my maintenance burden of my tank (including fertiliser additions), my hygrophilia was one of the plants that got removed. Also the Amazon swords, that were slightly less nitrogen hungry than the hygrophilia, but still good nitrate 'cleaners'.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2018, 04:37:10 PM »
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Great tank @Matt

Offline Matt

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2018, 09:53:19 PM »
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Thanks for our experience with the crypt @Helen I'll get some root rabs underneath them in a couple of days once i know Im happy with where they are placed.  Have You ever tried to 'split' a crypt plant to generate 2 plants. Im wondering if this is possible and how they propagate in the wild... might do some googling on that. You experience. Hygroila is also interesting. I live in an area with low tap water nitrate so wonder if this may be why I'm struggling with them... it's no loss if i only get the same performance from them in the new tank.  Amazon swords i know are heavy root feeders and can grow quite quickly in good conditions.  Mine have massive root structures.  Apparently they are keen in having iron too as a micronutrient to facilitate proper growth.

Offline Helen

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2018, 10:15:37 PM »
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Both my fish and I like crypts, so I have quite a few (about half my tank substrate is planted with a variety of different types of them). Having reduced and cleaned my substrate, I am experiencing a bit of melt. But it isn't complete plants, so it may just be that I've accelerated the natural die off and so I'm not particularly worried about it, yet.

I vaguely remember testing iron levels in my tank, but don't remember what the results were or what I consequently did. But over the longer term, I've moved towards only having plants that suit my water parameters, hence don't have plants that have a high nitrogen requirement for my low tap water nitrates. This has also worked for me, as those plants tend to be faster growers and I can't keep up with pruning them, when they are successful!

I've not actively tried propagating my crypts, but at the latest plant reshuffle I noticed that there were often more than one plant on the same root structure. I separated these, making sure I left enough young looking roots for each plant. I have read that they propagate by sub-surface runners (they looked like thick roots to me). And I know that my crypts self propagated in my tank, because I've not bought enough to cover 50% of my tank!

The one crypt I've completely failed with is parva and my crispulata is only just hanging on (I had thought that I had killed that one too!)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2018, 10:42:46 PM »
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Most crypts I've had have survived with little maintenance, so they are a bit of a go to plant here.
I have split some of my crypts and they have been fine.

Offline Matt

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2018, 05:33:52 AM »
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Thanks again both, I'll let them settle first before taking any drastic action but again thats all good to know for future.  I installed the light timer and have set it for a 5 hour lighting period at the moment in case of any algae growth, I'll increase it and add a siesta as the tank matures.

I managed to move a few more cherry shrimp over last night. I really want them to make a start at eating their way through the inevitable gloopy white wood fungus stuff which i seem to have in bucket loads on the new wood. I would think that the Amano shrimp would be able to make a dent in it if only i could catch them, they seem to be a lot smarter than the cherries and much better at hiding >:( I did find a burried cherry along the way which I've left in the 64 litre as i dont have the pre filter sponge in place yet and i suspet a more mature tank will give them a greater chance of survival.

I have managed to get pretty much all of the floating aquasoil out which is great and I've got up a lot of the aquasoil from the sand too, though i look to have spread what's left around a bit too so i need a new plan for getting that stuff picked up. I will probably go through it with the fish net to catch the aquasoil but let the sand pass again tomorrow as this did work well, but now its spread out a hit across the sand area its not really a job I'm looking forward too.   :vcross:  Dont suppose anyone has any bright ideas for this?

Water tests on both tanks are still good with zero ammonia across the board (apart from one old test strip i was using up which gave a false reading and scared me into doing a load more wet chemistry tests!! 5 mins is a long time to wait for a sample when your panicing!).  I'm going to try and get to MA Preston this afternoon after work, time permitting. I will of course look at what fish they have in stock in prep for some possible additions this weekend though I'm conscious that I still have to galaxy rasbora to move over though which with the stocking level of the tank currently, would account for a third increase in stocking which is the maximum im looking to do anyway per week. That said i do have the amazon swords to move across and the crypts if i do get carried away with myself and get 2 rams  ::)  I'm also interested to see what plants  have in stock though as I need something for the background behind the wood. The tank is quite deep (front to back) and so there is quite a bit of space back there at the moment. I'm ideally after sometng tall and very thin I think like Vallisneria nana or Eleocharis montevidensis but this may have to be an online order as I've not seen what im after in the shops before now.

I have decided for now at least not to put the moss on the wood as i actually quite like the crisp difference between the java fern etc and the wood, plus i feel that having the odd branch covered in moss will look unnatural somehow and i definately dont want everything covered... I'm a bit unsure anyways so for now I've a spare clump of java moss in the 64 litre and am not sure what im going to do with it quite yet.

I tidied up the spare scraps of wood in the last photo too so have tried to take a more  professional looking photo this time round. You can see I have a slight bit of water clouding which doesn't seem to be going away yet... im still hoping that sorts itself out in time...?

Offline Helen

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2018, 04:33:03 PM »
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I think the slightly white cloudiness is something to do with a new tank. But I can't remember what. But am pretty confident it will clear.

Offline Sue

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2018, 06:36:15 PM »
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Your tank is looking great  :cheers:


Your old test strip - that's one of the problems with strips, if they get damp they give false readings.


The cloudiness could be one of two things. Either dust from the substrate or a bacterial bloom. The latter are very common in new tanks because there is a lot of organic carbon in a new tank; from plasticiser in all the new plastic to organic things in the plant substrate. It will go away once the bacteria have eaten all their food, but it is impossible to say how long that will be.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2018, 09:42:11 PM »
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Your tank looks lovely. Well done.  :cheers:

As for catching shrimp, mine have out-smarted me on several occasions. I'm glad to hear that others have problems too.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2018, 09:58:52 PM »
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Tank does indeed look great. How are the fish finding their new-found space?

I'm also interested to see what plants  have in stock though as I need something for the background behind the wood.
I'm ideally after sometng tall and very thin I think like Vallisneria nana or Eleocharis montevidensis but this may have to be an online order as I've not seen what im after in the shops before now.
It might be worth finding out what day of the week your LFSs get their plant deliveries and then try to ensure that you're there the following day to get the best of the crop.
Your two suggestions of tall and thin plants sound good, the Vallis in particular. I've found it easier to keep second time round - in fact, it seems to have re-generated lately - while I found the Eleocharis had a very swift demise although I've only tried keeping it once.

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2018, 06:59:14 AM »
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Clouding seemed a bit worse if anything last night, I'm wondering if the addition of plant micronutrients when I set the tank up might have been a mistake. That said as Sue has said, I'm sure it will subside when whatever is there has been eaten.

The amano shrimp got transferred last night though the antics of catching them rather upset one of the rams who ended up thrashing around a bit at one side of the tank then looking very stressed. Fortunately this only lasted 10 minutes before she was completely back to normal  ::)  Catching the amanos was even more of an experience than I thought it would be... when one of them decided to walk out of the net and up the handle whilst out of the water  :yikes: I know they can walk out of water, but seeing this horror movie like creature coming towards me at pace when everything else has just sat pathetically in the bottom of the net unable to cope with the lack of support the air was giving them, was quite a shock!! I dropped the net back into the tank!

So with a stressed out ram, that was all that got done last night bar the usual water testing. I need to do a routine water change on the 64 litre tomorrow and a gravel vac. So that will take priority over moving plants etc.

I didn't get time to go to MA Preston last night, by the time work had finished it was too late...

Thanks for the tip on your experience with the vallis @fcmf, is that with the particular plants I referred to or the species as a whole? The fish are loving the extra space, my wife keeps telling me to feed them more because they must be getting exhausted from all the extra swimming!! I need to boost their numbers though, three cardinals, three harlequins, and two corys look a bit silly in a tank that size. I can't wait to see the harlequins swimming about as a tight directional group when there are more of them... it already looks fantastic! ;D

Offline Rustle

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2018, 08:26:21 AM »
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Looks amazing Matt i love the way the 2 woods blend together.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Cherry Barb (6) - Neon Tetra (7) - Harlequin Rasbora (11) - Honey Gourami (2) - Guppy (male) (3) - Otocinclus (5) - Japonica Shrimp (8) -
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Offline Sue

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2018, 09:15:39 AM »
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The trick with shrimps, and fish come to that, is as soon as they are in the net turn the net over so that you have the metal net rim facing downwards and a pouch of net containing the fish/shrimp dangling off to one side. The rim pressing against the upper fabric stops them getting out. That's how I transferred my cherry shrimp from the tank I was closing to the tank they are in now and none of them escaped  :)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #74 on: January 11, 2018, 09:37:07 AM »
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My problems usually revolve around getting my amano shrimp into the net in the first place.  ::)

Offline Matt

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2018, 10:30:17 AM »
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The trick with shrimps, and fish come to that, is as soon as they are in the net turn the net over so that you have the metal net rim facing downwards and a pouch of net containing the fish/shrimp dangling off to one side. The rim pressing against the upper fabric stops them getting out.

Good tip! I'm not sure I'm calm enough when I'm doing it to think that logically!! Not sure who suffers more sometimes, me or the fish!

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2018, 11:24:05 AM »
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You need to make sure that the net is big enough so the fish doesn't get squashed in the 'pouch'. Once out of the water, just hold the net almost vertical, just tilted slightly over to keep the net closed.

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2018, 07:47:33 PM »
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Thanks for the tip on your experience with the vallis @fcmf, is that with the particular plants I referred to or the species as a whole?
Vallisneria Spiralis Tiger was purchased both times - found the receipt and this current one is 6+ months old so a record for me! The Eleocharis which didn't do at all well was Eleocharis Acicularis. [Having said all this, I've begun to notice that there are actually particular locations in the tank where my plants seem to do better or worse than others - and the Eleocharis was in the worst spot while the Vallis has never been there. It was only when I noticed that 2 of the 3 floating squares which I have containing Amazonian frogbit had healthy plants while one had all of its plants die suddenly the other day that I realised the existence of these "bad" locations - maybe it's something to do with strength of the lighting or least water flow.]

Offline Matt

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2018, 09:12:23 PM »
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I did the water change on the 64 litre. Looking at the 220 litre now, I think there may have been a clouding issue which has now passed, and a tannin build-up which is now occurring. I'm going to do a big water change tomorrow and I also have some activted carbon I can add to the filter if needed.

This weekends current plans are to add 2 corys 1 cardinal and 1 harlequin. I realise this probably seems a bit odd, but this will mean 4 of each species and they all like to be in groups of 4 minimum.  I can then increase their numbers in following weeks.

That said, I think the rams in the 64 litre may be more hidey /stressy now there are less dither fish in the tank. So they will be getting moved the weekend after this when the filter can take the addition of them plus 2 more all at once to allow territories and hierarchies to be set up properly and not disrupted later on.  That will also give me the chance to increase the schoal of galaxy rasbora in the 64 litre the existing 2 have been removed from which can then all be move to the 220 litre the weekend after that and replaced with more fish for addition the following weekend. And so the cycle can continue, using the 64 as a quarantine tank (albeit a short quaranteen period). I may slow things down from the weekly cycle as time goes on, depends how excited I am!! I all also need to add the goby and the otocinclus and some new ones of these at some point.

Interesting theory about the bad spots fcmf... it could well be lighting or flow related. I know floating plants dont like too much flow and  so was the spot they didn't do so well in high light and high flow?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Matt's planning for 220 litre Aquaoak
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2018, 09:34:17 PM »
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Glad to hear that the clouding issue has passed.  :)

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